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Decoligny
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 08:07 pm |
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SouthernBoy wrote: CommonMan101 wrote: SouthernBoy wrote:
Just a minor correction for you. It cannot be racist since the man was of the same race as most Americans. Now if the news agency, or reporter(s) were black or perhaps American aboriginals (commonly called Indians) then one might suspect a racist slant.
I am in a time crunch at the moment, but I haven't found references to race in any story so far. What I do see is a pic that looks like he is of Arab descent. If so, are we mostly Arab here in America, in your opinion? I am unsure what you perceive things to be as far as race is concerned in this event and in America in general.
I find it unfortunate that race is even any kind of issue to anyone in any situation. It usually gets in the way of what's really important - IMO. When it really is the issue at hand there is little anyone can do to rectify it. When it's added in un-neccesarily it yanks the discussion about what happened and what to do about it off track.
No. I was simply making a suggestion for a slight correction in someone's post (see post number 2) who felt that racist reporting had occurred. Arabic people are caucasian which is what the majority of Americans are as well. That's all - no big deal.
Racially Arabic people are not Caucasians. They are a semetic people that originated in Arabia, but have spread throughout the middle east.
There are three basic ways of defining "Arabic".
1. Racially - Genetics: People who have descended from the Tribes of Arabia
2. Linguistically: Anyone who's first language and culture expression is Arabic. A person who is racially African, can be Linguistically and culturally an Arab.
3. Politically: Anyone who is a citizen of an Arabic country.
Caucasians are people descended from the inhabitants of the Causasus region north of Iran. Modern use of the term Caucasian has come to specify any of the white or "light skinned" people of European descent. Arab does not fall into this category.Last edited on Fri Nov 6th, 2009 08:50 pm by Decoligny
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riverrat10k
Regular Member
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| Location: | Bon Air, Va |
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 08:46 pm |
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10A wrote: riverrat10k wrote: Islam, the religion of peace my a#@. Until I see a loud and concerted effort by Muslims in this country denouncing this act, all the "honor" killings, and anti-US speech in general, I will consider Muslims the enemy. I lost friends on 9/11.
People see what they want to see.
"When news first broke Thursday that a shooting at Fort Hood, Texas, killed and injured U.S. soldiers, the national communications director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations wrote a statement of condemnation."
"In a separate statement, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, based in Los Angeles, California, condemned what it called the 'heinous incident.'"
"The Islamic Information Center also issued a statement 'in conjunction with all the major Muslim organizations nationwide' that condemned the attack."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/muslims.fort.hood/index.html
Arab-American and Muslim groups based in metro Detroit and across the U.S. have strongly condemned the shooting rampage in Ft. Hood, Texas.
http://www.freep.com/article/20091106/NEWS05/91106014/1318/Groups-in-Michigan-condemn-Ft.-Hood-attack
"A spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations said they don't know anything about Hasan, and condemned the shooting at Fort Hood.
The group issued a statement calling the shooting as a 'cowardly attack.' They say no political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such violence."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572448,00.html
Do we blame the a whole religion, race, or society based on rogue actions of one individual, or one rogue group of individuals? Doesn't sound very Christian to me, but then carrying a gun isn't exactly in line with Jesus's teachings either. There are an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims in the world (and growing faster than any other religion). Just to put that in context, there's enough Muslims to repopulate the entire US 5 times over. If each and every Muslim is a cult trained killer then you might as well say goodbye now.
Or hear and see what time allows and is actually widely disseminated.
Thanks for the links. Will get to them this evening. Personally, I don't believe anything that comes out of CAIR. They are under investigation now for money laundering and sending funds to radical groups. Anecdotally, my understanding is that the religion does not perceive lying to unbelivers as immoral or sinful. If this is true, can the non-Muslim public at large believe anything released for public consumption by Muslim officials?
This country was specifically set up as a secular government. The biggest problem I have with Islam is that some followers believe the religious law supercedes the laws of the political entity. The best treatment I have seen of this danger is the book "Londonistan".
OTOH, I was speaking with a friend the other night about religion and he was just as scared of ultra-religious born-again Christians, citing their belief that their way is the only way, and that conversion (to Christianity) of the masses is the only hope for the world. Sound familiar?
By the way, I would best be described as a fallen Catholic.
"What do you find when you find four Catholics? A fifth." Irish roots are both a blessing and a curse.
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Decoligny
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 10:24 pm |
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riverrat10k wrote: 10A wrote: riverrat10k wrote: Islam, the religion of peace my a#@. Until I see a loud and concerted effort by Muslims in this country denouncing this act, all the "honor" killings, and anti-US speech in general, I will consider Muslims the enemy. I lost friends on 9/11.
People see what they want to see.
"When news first broke Thursday that a shooting at Fort Hood, Texas, killed and injured U.S. soldiers, the national communications director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations wrote a statement of condemnation."
"In a separate statement, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, based in Los Angeles, California, condemned what it called the 'heinous incident.'"
"The Islamic Information Center also issued a statement 'in conjunction with all the major Muslim organizations nationwide' that condemned the attack."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/muslims.fort.hood/index.html
Arab-American and Muslim groups based in metro Detroit and across the U.S. have strongly condemned the shooting rampage in Ft. Hood, Texas.
http://www.freep.com/article/20091106/NEWS05/91106014/1318/Groups-in-Michigan-condemn-Ft.-Hood-attack
"A spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations said they don't know anything about Hasan, and condemned the shooting at Fort Hood.
The group issued a statement calling the shooting as a 'cowardly attack.' They say no political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such violence."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572448,00.html
Do we blame the a whole religion, race, or society based on rogue actions of one individual, or one rogue group of individuals? Doesn't sound very Christian to me, but then carrying a gun isn't exactly in line with Jesus's teachings either. There are an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims in the world (and growing faster than any other religion). Just to put that in context, there's enough Muslims to repopulate the entire US 5 times over. If each and every Muslim is a cult trained killer then you might as well say goodbye now.
Or hear and see what time allows and is actually widely disseminated.
Thanks for the links. Will get to them this evening. Personally, I don't believe anything that comes out of CAIR. They are under investigation now for money laundering and sending funds to radical groups. Anecdotally, my understanding is that the religion does not perceive lying to unbelivers as immoral or sinful. If this is true, can the non-Muslim public at large believe anything released for public consumption by Muslim officials?
This country was specifically set up as a secular government. The biggest problem I have with Islam is that some followers believe the religious law supercedes the laws of the political entity. The best treatment I have seen of this danger is the book "Londonistan".
OTOH, I was speaking with a friend the other night about religion and he was just as scared of ultra-religious born-again Christians, citing their belief that their way is the only way, and that conversion (to Christianity) of the masses is the only hope for the world. Sound familiar?
By the way, I would best be described as a fallen Catholic.
"What do you find when you find four Catholics? A fifth." Irish roots are both a blessing and a curse.
I think the major difference is that if a Christian tries to get you to convert and you don't, we Christians just believe that you are doomed to spend eternity in hell due to your choice, and you can change your mind at any time up until the end. We don't however, go about actively trying to kill you to send you there any earlier than God already has planned.
If a radical Muslim tries to convert you to Islam, and you choose not to convert, the radical Muslims will try to end your life.
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The Donkey
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 10:49 pm |
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Decoligny wrote: riverrat10k wrote: 10A wrote: riverrat10k wrote: Islam, the religion of peace my a#@. Until I see a loud and concerted effort by Muslims in this country denouncing this act, all the "honor" killings, and anti-US speech in general, I will consider Muslims the enemy. I lost friends on 9/11.
If a radical Muslim tries to convert you to Islam, and you choose not to convert, the radical Muslims will try to end your life.
The 9-11 terrorists didn't just hijack airplanes, they hijacked a religion.
Decoligny, most Muslims won't try to convert you to anything. Very, very few actually would try to convert you at the point of a gun. I don't think the Ft. Hood killer would have done this, for example.
I would argue for a broader definition of "radical," and would drop the "Muslim" part.
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 10:52 pm |
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Race preference? Why certainly. I like Indy much more than NASCAR.
The shooter here was a Moslem, true; and for some odd (or maybe not so odd) reason some Moslems have been known to go into a religious frenzy and launch violent so-called "Jihad" all by their lonesomes.
However this guy was also a creep and he reeked of being a creep like a bad case of stinkfoot at a formal Japanese tea ceremony. Investigation has revealed that he proselytized Islam to soldiers he was counselling a Walter Reed. Imagine what would have happened if a Christian believer had done that in the same capacity!!
The harsh reality is that Moslem soldiers will have to go not one but a few dozen extra miles to prove their loyalty to the USA from this point on. This is not without precedent: See the 444th Infantry of WWII.
If any find this "discriminatory" I would point out that entering the Armed Forces is entirely voluntary. Anyone who feels in any way that they are incapable of UNSWERVING LOYALTY to the United States can and should simply refrain from signing up. And DAT's da name o' DAT tune.
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Decoligny
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 12:41 am |
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The Donkey wrote: Decoligny wrote: riverrat10k wrote: 10A wrote: riverrat10k wrote: Islam, the religion of peace my a#@. Until I see a loud and concerted effort by Muslims in this country denouncing this act, all the "honor" killings, and anti-US speech in general, I will consider Muslims the enemy. I lost friends on 9/11.
If a radical Muslim tries to convert you to Islam, and you choose not to convert, the radical Muslims will try to end your life.
The 9-11 terrorists didn't just hijack airplanes, they hijacked a religion.
Decoligny, most Muslims won't try to convert you to anything. Very, very few actually would try to convert you at the point of a gun. I don't think the Ft. Hood killer would have done this, for example.
I would argue for a broader definition of "radical," and would drop the "Muslim" part.
I think "Radical Muslim" fits the description perfectly.
After all, the terrorist were NOT moderate baptists now, were they? They were indeed Radical Muslims.
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SouthernBoy
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:11 am |
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Decoligny wrote: SouthernBoy wrote: CommonMan101 wrote: SouthernBoy wrote:
Just a minor correction for you. It cannot be racist since the man was of the same race as most Americans. Now if the news agency, or reporter(s) were black or perhaps American aboriginals (commonly called Indians) then one might suspect a racist slant.
I am in a time crunch at the moment, but I haven't found references to race in any story so far. What I do see is a pic that looks like he is of Arab descent. If so, are we mostly Arab here in America, in your opinion? I am unsure what you perceive things to be as far as race is concerned in this event and in America in general.
I find it unfortunate that race is even any kind of issue to anyone in any situation. It usually gets in the way of what's really important - IMO. When it really is the issue at hand there is little anyone can do to rectify it. When it's added in un-neccesarily it yanks the discussion about what happened and what to do about it off track.
No. I was simply making a suggestion for a slight correction in someone's post (see post number 2) who felt that racist reporting had occurred. Arabic people are caucasian which is what the majority of Americans are as well. That's all - no big deal.
Racially Arabic people are not Caucasians. They are a semetic people that originated in Arabia, but have spread throughout the middle east.
There are three basic ways of defining "Arabic".
1. Racially - Genetics: People who have descended from the Tribes of Arabia
2. Linguistically: Anyone who's first language and culture expression is Arabic. A person who is racially African, can be Linguistically and culturally an Arab.
3. Politically: Anyone who is a citizen of an Arabic country.
Caucasians are people descended from the inhabitants of the Causasus region north of Iran. Modern use of the term Caucasian has come to specify any of the white or "light skinned" people of European descent. Arab does not fall into this category.
Ok, white then. How's that? Or this;
"of, constituting, or characteristic of a race of humankind native to Europe, North Africa, and southwest Asia and classified according to physical features —used especially in referring to persons of European descent having usually light skin"
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JBURGII
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:30 am |
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Alexcabbie wrote: Race preference? Why certainly. I like Indy much more than NASCAR.
Alex, you are my new hero.. BUT, NASCAR is superior ( ).
Let me point out what has been brought up already, regardless of the motives or race and religious inclinations of this shooter, would it not have been a better idea for those on a military base to be armed? I know the first responders did an outstanding job and took fire to save lives.. but here is an example of a 'gun free zone' allowing the bad guys to get the upper hand.
Rev. Jim II
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 01:45 am |
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White, black, purple... who gives a crap?
This guy was a muzzie on Jihad. A personal jihad against the infidel kuffah crusader soldiers about to be deployed against his 'people'. His loyalty lay with Mohammads 'Allah'. A fanatic? Sure... but not uncommon among muzzoids. He expected to die. he gave away his possessions prior to... He expected to get his 72 virgins and his ticket to paradise. Do any of you understand Jihad? Go read the Koranic passages...
How long before some other muzzoid blows a ship magazine... shoots up a PX or some other heroic act for Allah? 'Cause that's how they look at it... 'n this goof inasmuch said so.
An Islamoterrorist act? Yes... what else? They guy yells 'Allah Akbar' 'n starts shootin'. Duh? He has an FN 5.7... 10-20-30 round magazines available. He could have a couple 20 round sticks in his belt 'n go rock 'n roll for awhile in that building like fish in a barrel 'til somebody found him.
Too bad the local cops 'n MP's don't have .45acp anymore. Too bad ordinary 'soldiers' cannot carry arms on military installations to defend against this kind'a thing. It's all one big 'gun free zone'.
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:10 am |
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An FN 5.7?? That is a RIFLE is it not?? The news folks are plugging like mad that he was armed with two "handguns".
Seems to me the Leftist media is using his jihad to fuel their own.
There has been speculation that the left thinks they can "use" radical Islam to help destroy "western democracy" and that after that they will be able to control these freaks. Wow. Talk about delusional.
Here's a note for all you conspiracy nuts: The Oklahoma City bomb was patterned similar to the roadside bombs used in Iraq and Afghanistan. A crude shaped charge and all and ther are reports the FBI declined to check out leads that Terry Nichols had met with members of al-Quaeda. Feasable? Well, Hitler once said Islam would have made a better religion for germany than Christianity....
Man, thinking about this crapn is making me dizzy. I am reminded of a Lily Tomlin quote: "I try to be cynical, but it's hard to keep up..."
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Gordie
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:18 am |
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Alexcabbie wrote: An FN 5.7?? That is a RIFLE is it not??
The round was developed to be used in a pistol as well as a carbine. The advantage of using a pistol and carbine in the same caliber is obvious.
http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/
Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:19 am by Gordie
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Right Wing Wacko
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:35 am |
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I am going to disagree with some people here and state my reasoning.
THIS WAS NOT AN ACT OF TERRORISM.
An act of terrorism is commited againt civilian population in order to cause panic or terror.
This was an attack against a military target, a ligitimate target in war. This was an Act of WAR plain and simple.
The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:37 am |
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HOOOLLLEEE MOLEY! That is incredible. It also must cost a fortune. If this dude was just a fast-track promoted Medical Corps schlump how did he know to get such a fistful of firepower, and afford it?? Oh Lawd, somebody get me into the CID, right now I would LOVE to be part of this investigation. That thing looks to e about the size of a full size 1911, yet I have never heard of it nor have I seen it for sale anywhere.
Thanks, Gordie; and i have more than just a reasonable suspicion that this whole thing may be bigger than just a "lone nut" op now............
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The Donkey
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:38 am |
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Sonora Rebel wrote: White, black, purple... who gives a crap?
This guy was a muzzie on Jihad. A personal jihad against the infidel kuffah crusader soldiers about to be deployed against his 'people'. His loyalty lay with Mohammads 'Allah'. A fanatic? Sure... but not uncommon among muzzoids. He expected to die. he gave away his possessions prior to... He expected to get his 72 virgins and his ticket to paradise. Do any of you understand Jihad? Go read the Koranic passages...
How long before some other muzzoid blows a ship magazine... shoots up a PX or some other heroic act for Allah? 'Cause that's how they look at it... 'n this goof inasmuch said so.
An Islamoterrorist act? Yes... what else? They guy yells 'Allah Akbar' 'n starts shootin'. Duh? He has an FN 5.7... 10-20-30 round magazines available. He could have a couple 20 round sticks in his belt 'n go rock 'n roll for awhile in that building like fish in a barrel 'til somebody found him.
Too bad the local cops 'n MP's don't have .45acp anymore. Too bad ordinary 'soldiers' cannot carry arms on military installations to defend against this kind'a thing. It's all one big 'gun free zone'.
Is somebody moderating this crap?
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:49 am |
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| Why, Donk?? Because it doesn't conform to your worldview?? Because you are a minority of one here?? Because Jeersey went Republican?? What??
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The Donkey
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 02:57 am |
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| I find derogatory names for Muslims as offensive as I would like names for blacks, jews or christians.
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:21 am |
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I am pretty sure Reb meant the murderous radicals, not your ordinary day-to-day Moslem. But it is getting pretty hard to tell them apart.
There are a lot of cab drivers who use various tricks to screw over their riders, and this suspicion washes over me almost daily. But you don't see me making excuses for the crooks. Instead I DEMONSTRATE MY HONESTY RELIABILITY AND GOOD INTENTIONS. I do not say. "Yes but you must understand they have families to feed"; I give people the Hack Inspector's phone number and ask them to help me weed out the baddies. The "good Moslems" need to do something similar. I know there has been some effort in this vein, but it is not nearly enough.
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:28 am |
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Donk... 'You been payin' attention to who the 'enemy' is for the past 40 years or more? Oh... now we're supposed to be 'sensitive' toward the very bunch that's killin' us... and any who aren't Muslim?
Islam Delenda Est to paraphase Cicero. Put that in yer pinko pipe 'n smoke it!
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:41 am |
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See Donk? Reb is more tolerant than even I am, because I refuse to spell it "Muslim". I was taught "Moslem" and that's how I spell it. Hey, you don't order "Bejing Duck" do you?? Actually first I heard it was "Mohammedian" and before even that it was "Mahometan". Progress for the progressive!!
In fact, I have a plan to make a bundle on a new diet milkshake for overwieight Islamic women and men. I'm gonna call it "Moo-Slim" How you like them apples (alo comes in chovolate vanilla ans strawberry"
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:50 am |
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For what it is worth, I just caught a bit of radio news report saying his home computer was seized. According to the news report, he was opposed to the war on terror. He had also written on a forum that if a suicidemurder-bomber could kill one hundred people here, it would be a strategic victory. I think it was a CBS network report.
Keep your ears open for confirmation, though. Who knows whether this is more so-called "preliminary information" like the tidbits that the LEO and the shooter both died.
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