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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:52 am |
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Right Wing Wacko wrote: SNIP THIS WAS NOT AN ACT OF TERRORISM...treason...
+1
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 04:18 am |
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Citizen wrote: For what it is worth, I just caught a bit of radio news report saying his home computer was seized. According to the news report, he was opposed to the war on terror. He had also written on a forum that if a suicidemurder-bomber could kill one hundred people here, it would be a strategic victory. I think it was a CBS network report.
Keep your ears open for confirmation, though. Who knows whether this is more so-called "preliminary information" like the tidbits that the LEO and the shooter both died.
Quite right. I always take news reports with a grain of pepper. (Most people do so with a grain of salt, but me I like spicy stories!)
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Gordie
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 4th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 591 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 03:31 pm |
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Alexcabbie wrote: HOOOLLLEEE MOLEY! That is incredible. It also must cost a fortune. If this dude was just a fast-track promoted Medical Corps schlump how did he know to get such a fistful of firepower, and afford it?? Oh Lawd, somebody get me into the CID, right now I would LOVE to be part of this investigation. That thing looks to e about the size of a full size 1911, yet I have never heard of it nor have I seen it for sale anywhere.
Thanks, Gordie; and i have more than just a reasonable suspicion that this whole thing may be bigger than just a "lone nut" op now............
Actually, they aren't that expensive. More than average sure, but not that bad.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.asp
It isn't too hard to find out about these things, they were in all of the gun magazines when they came out a few years ago.
You may be surprised by what a major makes. A major over 4 years makes $5042, over 6 years makes $5330 base pay per month, add on allowances for housing and food, it comes out pretty nice. I can't remember how much time he had in, but I think that he was over 6.
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Gator5713
Lone Star Veteran
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 05:58 pm |
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Alexcabbie wrote: HOOOLLLEEE MOLEY! That is incredible. It also must cost a fortune. If this dude was just a fast-track promoted Medical Corps schlump how did he know to get such a fistful of firepower, and afford it?? Oh Lawd, somebody get me into the CID, right now I would LOVE to be part of this investigation. That thing looks to e about the size of a full size 1911, yet I have never heard of it nor have I seen it for sale anywhere.
Thanks, Gordie; and i have more than just a reasonable suspicion that this whole thing may be bigger than just a "lone nut" op now............
Alex- The Five-seveN has been out for a while now. It is about the same size as a 1911, and cost is comparable to a good 1911 as well! They are fairly readily available, and although I personally don't own one, I have a number of friends that do own the pistol, the carbine, and even the AR-15 upper all in this round! Just because YOU haven't heard of or seen it, does not make it un-common... There have even been a number of discussions about it on this forum! Just do a search for FN 5.7 or Five-seveN...
This series of guns is on my 'to get' list, and has been for a while as it is NATO's new favorite round! many of us choose to keep guns around that use the most common rounds (often the NATO rounds) based on future availability!
In response to another statement that I read about the 'armor piercing' ability of these rounds... While the poster was correct that the 'specific' 'armor piercing' version of these rounds is very limited availability to certain military/le only; the publicly available rounds are still quite nasty and WILL penetrate body armor! Maybe not with every round, but I have been privy to the testing of this weapon, with civilian rounds, against body armor! The minimal bullet diameter combined with its very high velocity makes it very effective at penetration!
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Gator5713
Lone Star Veteran
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 06:12 pm |
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On another note regarding 'Racial Profiling'....
1) I don't believe that I ever referred to 'Muslim' as a 'race', however they are a distinct group of people with a common belief, and thus can be 'lumped' together as a group for reference purposes and classifying people by 'religion' or 'beliefs' is much more accurate than classifying them by 'color' or 'race'. (IMHO)
2) When the majority of attacks against the US are done by 'Muslim' males between the ages of 18-28, looking sideways or being a bit leary of a 'Muslim male between the ages of 18 & 28' is NOT 'racial profiling'; it IS STATISTICS!!!!
The same way that a prison population being 75% black in an area who's population is 75% black, is not discriminatory, it IS Statistics!
Also, comparing 'radical' muslims to 'born again' (or even 'radical') Christians is completely off base! Again, statistically, how many 'born again' or 'radical' Christians go berzerk and start blowing $h!t up???? My guess would be about 1 to 10,000 (or more) 'radical' muslims! And of those 'Christians' that DO go berzerk, how many of them claim their religion as the reason? or that they did it for the glory of God? I believe we are getting closer to 1:1M!!!
Am I being racist? I don't think so! I'm just making logical deductions based on FACTS and STATISTICS drawn from those FACTS!
Furthermore, I hear Christian leaders in church, on the radio, on the TV, in print, constantly preaching Love and Tolerance! How often do you hear that from Muslim leaders??? I'm not talking about bureaucratic institutions, I'm talking about the actual religious leaders!
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:03 pm |
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You won't find any Name brand Christians spoutin' this kind'a rant:
http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....
As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15
Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60
Yeah... 'religion of peace' my ass.
Ohhh... but lets not OFFEND THEM... Nooooooo! Islam has been spread by the sword for the past 1387 years. People like Donkey are blind to it...
ISLAM DELENDA EST
Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:10 pm by Sonora Rebel
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:21 pm |
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That FN pistol would be a great issue arm for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Like carrying an AR-15 on your hip. Costs a lot but hell, when did the Ol' Bama Administration worry about that?
Still the Major was an Army headshrinker. The Medical Corps are not known for being filled with avid gunners, believe me in Panama the Medics lived right above the cops so I knew a lot of them, and they were such a bunch of peaceniks that I wondered how they ever got into the Air Force sometimes.
So, if a guy like me had never heard or (and what is more likely because up until this red-hot minute I would have been dismissive of a pistol firing necked-down needle rounds) read of this piece; then I posit that an officer in the most anti-war part of the Army would probably have had to have sought out or been given advice as to what would be concealable but be able to penetraate Kevlar. Seems to me the Major had someone giving him advice. His computer has been confiscated of course, and if the investigative team finds no inquiries about armor piercing capabilities then IMO - as a former investigator - that points strongly to his having help in the planning and maybe execution of this massacre.
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The Donkey
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 21st, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 519 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:39 pm |
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"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"
"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)"
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"
"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"
"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"
"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:50 pm |
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Dude... which 'religion' has been killin' 'infidels'... including the innocents for the past 1387 years in the name of 'Allah'? Who... what are we now engaged against in two wars? Who... blows stuff up everyday... along with themselves? It ain't the Jews... it ain't Catholics... Baptists or Bhuddists...
Which religion is still screamin' Death to America in the streets? Which religion strives toward the day of the Great Caliphate worldwide?
Yeah... I know how you libtards think... when facts don't fit the theory, dismiss the facts.
KNOW YOUR ENEMY!
Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 09:01 pm by Sonora Rebel
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 08:53 pm |
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| Donk, if you are a Moslem just say so.
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okboomer
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 19th, 2009 |
| Location: | Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 11:27 pm |
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You also noticed that he was recently transferred from Walter Reed Army Medical Center ... in Washington, DC ... where handguns are NOT ALLOWED?
And what is one of the first things this idjit did in Texas? He goes out and buys the gun with the reputation of being a 'cop killer'?
It would be interesting to find out just how he picked this particular gun?
Could this be evidence of premeditation? Sure looks that way to me ... gives away all his belongings, copies of the Koran, calls and says 'goodbye' to friends and family, carries a concealed handgun(s) onto a military base where posession of unauthorized weapons is illegal?
Any way you cut it, Federal, Military, civilian, the idjit will face the death penalty. Along with him being shot by a WOMAN, this is probably the only justice anyone will see out of this incident.
Another little hmmmm item I saw were the reports of his views that he voiced in public ... equating suicide bombers with heroes throwing themselves on grenades to save comrades' lives, all Muslims should rise up and fight the agressors, believed that the war on terrorism was illegal. Makes me wonder if his superiors at WR thought they would send him incountry so they would straighten him out.
And, how was he, a psychiatric medical officer, going to be required to kill anyone? He was going to be in a green zone and not out in the fighting.
Whether this was a personal jihad or not, the only problem he has right now is that he didn't get his 72 virgins yet.
Puhleeeeze ... all he accomplished was to besmirch the good name of Moslims who serve with honor and dignity every day!
Once again, a gun free zone becomes a shooting gallery.
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 12:16 am |
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The FBI has been reported to say that their search of the shooter's computer reveals nothing connected to the attack. This is being kinda sideways interpreted tht ergo this was not a planned attack by organized jihadists. Malarkey.
Although it is not evidence either way, I do believe that there was a similar plot against Ft, Hood that was thwarted about two years ago. As with the World Trade Center, the Jihadi motto is try, try again.
Now, we all can speculate and analyze all we want, and doubtless as the investigation continues and public figures who don't knw what they are talking about wiegh in with the usual stupid remarks (which will be given great prominence by the media; I am waiting for Brad Pitt to come on TV with his blather about this so I can change the channel) we will have more to talk about.
But the fact remains that jihadists along with robbers and rapists and other criminal scum prefer unarmed, unprepared and oblivious victims. And the present attitude toward the bearing of weapons assures these assorted butchers that they will be able to find an unguarded flock of sheep very conveniently and with little effort.
When Diane Fienstiein et al say we should leave these matters to "the authorities" they are saying that we should rely on them to protect us. Ho ho effing ho.
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okboomer
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 19th, 2009 |
| Location: | Oklahoma USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 01:43 am |
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Alexcabbie wrote: When Diane Fienstiein et al say we should leave these matters to "the authorities" they are saying that we should rely on them to protect us. Ho ho effing ho.
Yeah, I remember when this "call the cops" BS got started. Most of it started in NYC and we can all see how well that has worked out across the country.
I also noticed that Ft. Hood called the "first responders." I was taught in an advanced pistol class that folks that carry are the actual first responders. Sadly, there were none inside the center at Ft. Hood. They had to come from outside.
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Gator5713
Lone Star Veteran
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 01:55 am |
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Here's a question or two for you...
1) If so much thought and planning were put into which gun, resulting in the choice of the Five seveN, then why did he also have a .357 revolver? If it were a cost issue on not getting 2 of the FNs, then why didn't he just get 2 $5-600 guns with relatively high capacity magazines. Its not like the 'targets' that he was engaging were wearing any kind of armor!
2) Alex- you give a theory that 'most' people in his field are NOT 'gun nuts'... but that doesn't mean all... I know many doctors of differing professions that ARE 'gun nuts', so I really can't put very much credence to that argument as a case basis...
No offense intended, just circumstantial...
Not saying that this WASN'T a premeditated attack, just playing a little 'devils advocate' with some of the theories passed around here...
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 02:13 am |
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Speaking of "first responders": back when a potential smallpox attack was the flavor of the month, remember how there was all this stuff about "first responders" needing to be immunized first?? Well, yall know what I do for a living; and if anybody is going to get whatever is going around - and very possibly spread it all over before it becomes symptomatic - it's a cab driver. WE PICK UP PEOPLE WHO HAVE JUST GOTTEN OFF OF AIRPLANES FOR GOD'S SAKES!!! (not me, I am a street hacker). Yet does anyone think of immunizing public transit carrriers such as us and bus drivers? No. Heck I have a cold right now and I could infect up to fifty people or more if I was working, but here I am waiting for the Theraflu to kick in. Imagine if my sneezes contained variola major instead of rhinovirus. Dumbass government jerks. And they want to run day-to-day healthcare?? Oh my 
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 02:29 am |
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Gator5713 wrote:
however [Muslims] are a distinct group of people with a common belief
This is simply not true.
I believe that's the problem Donkey was trying to address.
You cannot simply wage war against Muslims, because you'll be wasting a lot of bullets on people who haven't planned and aren't planning to commit violence.
Remember what happened to the Japanese in world war II. We conflated "Japanese people at war with America" with "Japanese people" and spent a lot of time and money putting Japanese into concentration camps, to no positive effect.
This is why self-defense is important, but retaliation is less-so.
Americans should be armed everywhere to stop these attacks before they succeed.
But, once we go overseas and try to wage war on "terror" or "Muslims" we're fighting an enemy that you simply can't kill with "statistical profiling", even using the US armed forces.Last edited on Sun Nov 8th, 2009 02:31 am by marshaul
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 02:42 am |
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marshaul wrote: SNIP I believe that's the problem Donkey was trying to address.
Donkey's problem is his little penchant for thought control. Remember, earlier he said he found negative words for Muslims offensive.
So, he's offended. Now he's got an impulse to make others think his way. Rather than just an impulse to help others aspire to a higher level of understanding by explaining with facts and highlighting the danger of generalizations by way of respectful persuasion.
I really couldn't tell you easily which is worse. Somebody who hates a group for the crimes of a small part of the group, or somebody who is offended by the hate, rather than just understanding that it is part of the human condition, a part that can be changed and requires no looking-down on the hater or being offended by him.
Donkey has a good idea. He's just proceeding from an elitist viewpoint, and undermining his own efforts.
Last edited on Sun Nov 8th, 2009 02:53 am by Citizen
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:04 am |
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marshaul wrote: Gator5713 wrote:
however [Muslims] are a distinct group of people with a common belief
This is simply not true.
I believe that's the problem Donkey was trying to address.
You cannot simply wage war against Muslims, because you'll be wasting a lot of bullets on people who haven't planned and aren't planning to commit violence.
Remember what happened to the Japanese in world war II. We conflated "Japanese people at war with America" with "Japanese people" and spent a lot of time and money putting Japanese into concentration camps, to no positive effect.
This is why self-defense is important, but retaliation is less-so.
Americans should be armed everywhere to stop these attacks before they succeed.
But, once we go overseas and try to wage war on "terror" or "Muslims" we're fighting an enemy that you simply can't kill with "statistical profiling", even using the US armed forces.
AHEM!
The Japanese placed in concentration camps were either Japanese citizens or naturalized immigrants. Mostly in other words "enemy aliens". and I could stomach the constant libtard carping about it except it's always about the poor Japanese; when in fact German immigrants and nationals got the same treatment. The reason you don't hear about the Germans interned during WWII is that the left of course wants to use the exmple of the Japanese to show that these United States are a collection of racist entities that has need of being reformed by of course the wise policies of the left.
And of course the Nazis were brute beasts - and they were, no doubt about it. But so were the Japanese. Ever hear of the rape of Nanking?? The Bataan Death March? The medical "research" unit of the Japanese Imperial Army just absolutely put SS Doctor Josef Mengele to shame.
HOWEVER there was a unit of Japanese-American soldiers - the 444th - who fought valiantly for this country in that same war. So don't start up with those damned leftist canards about the racist camps. Besides all this, the conflict we are in now is very different from WWII or for that matter any other conflict we have ever been engaged in. And nobody is tlking about rounding up Moslems for the offense of being Moslems. Geeze.
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Gator5713
Lone Star Veteran
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:15 am |
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marshaul wrote: Gator5713 wrote:
however [Muslims] are a distinct group of people with a common belief
This is simply not true.
I believe that's the problem Donkey was trying to address.
You cannot simply wage war against Muslims, because you'll be wasting a lot of bullets on people who haven't planned and aren't planning to commit violence.
Remember what happened to the Japanese in world war II. We conflated "Japanese people at war with America" with "Japanese people" and spent a lot of time and money putting Japanese into concentration camps, to no positive effect.
This is why self-defense is important, but retaliation is less-so.
Americans should be armed everywhere to stop these attacks before they succeed.
But, once we go overseas and try to wage war on "terror" or "Muslims" we're fighting an enemy that you simply can't kill with "statistical profiling", even using the US armed forces.
Marshaul- If you would like to go back and put that quote back into context, then I might be willing to give your statement some credence, as it stands, you are taking a portion of a statement to serve your views and essentially putting words into my mouth that I have not said!
No better than the 'media'!
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:52 am |
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Gator5713 wrote:
Marshaul- If you would like to go back and put that quote back into context, then I might be willing to give your statement some credence, as it stands, you are taking a portion of a statement to serve your views and essentially putting words into my mouth that I have not said!
No better than the 'media'!
Sorry, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was attempting to attack the notion that muslims share a "common belief". If you recognize that they don't, then my post wasn't directed at you and I'm sorry for using your words as a springboard.
Alexcabbie wrote:
marshaul wrote: Gator5713 wrote:
however [Muslims] are a distinct group of people with a common belief
This is simply not true.
I believe that's the problem Donkey was trying to address.
You cannot simply wage war against Muslims, because you'll be wasting a lot of bullets on people who haven't planned and aren't planning to commit violence.
Remember what happened to the Japanese in world war II. We conflated "Japanese people at war with America" with "Japanese people" and spent a lot of time and money putting Japanese into concentration camps, to no positive effect.
This is why self-defense is important, but retaliation is less-so.
Americans should be armed everywhere to stop these attacks before they succeed.
But, once we go overseas and try to wage war on "terror" or "Muslims" we're fighting an enemy that you simply can't kill with "statistical profiling", even using the US armed forces.
AHEM!
The Japanese placed in concentration camps were either Japanese citizens or naturalized immigrants. Mostly in other words "enemy aliens". and I could stomach the constant libtard carping about it except it's always about the poor Japanese; when in fact German immigrants and nationals got the same treatment. The reason you don't hear about the Germans interned during WWII is that the left of course wants to use the exmple of the Japanese to show that these United States are a collection of racist entities that has need of being reformed by of course the wise policies of the left.
And of course the Nazis were brute beasts - and they were, no doubt about it. But so were the Japanese. Ever hear of the rape of Nanking?? The Bataan Death March? The medical "research" unit of the Japanese Imperial Army just absolutely put SS Doctor Josef Mengele to shame.
HOWEVER there was a unit of Japanese-American soldiers - the 444th - who fought valiantly for this country in that same war. So don't start up with those damned leftist canards about the racist camps. Besides all this, the conflict we are in now is very different from WWII or for that matter any other conflict we have ever been engaged in. And nobody is tlking about rounding up Moslems for the offense of being Moslems. Geeze.
Way to miss my point entirely.
Yes, Germans were rounded up. Lot of good that did us. That underlines my point, because my point has nothing to do with race. Thanks for the assistance!
And, yes, I know nobody is talking about rounding up anybody. My post wasn't about what happens when you round people up, it was about what happens when you conflate groups simply because they share characteristics -- you end up dealing with irrelevant people.
Japanese and Germans in America were conflated with soldiers in other countries, and resources were wasted.
Now, Muslims are being conflated with terrorists, and resources are going to be wasted.Last edited on Sun Nov 8th, 2009 03:59 am by marshaul
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