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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 02:30 pm |
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Re 'microwave', remember diathermy?
Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed whre they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$
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bohdi
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 02:31 pm |
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LEO 229 wrote: How many people in here would really want a gun that required electronics to operate for them to be authorized to actually shoot the gun...?? I for one would NOT!!
I hope nobody here is buying stock in those companies because they are going to sink!! 
Not so fast. There are advantages to it. As far as the stock sinking, it's only until the government starts buying it  Just wait.
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LEO 229
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | NOVA, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 7618 |
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 03:15 pm |
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bohdi wrote: LEO 229 wrote: How many people in here would really want a gun that required electronics to operate for them to be authorized to actually shoot the gun...?? I for one would NOT!!
I hope nobody here is buying stock in those companies because they are going to sink!!
Not so fast. There are advantages to it. As far as the stock sinking, it's only until the government starts buying it Just wait.
Damn.. this could be true... I am going to switch over all my stocks now!! Buy low, sell high!!
Too bad I do not believe in the product. 
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bohdi
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 06:19 pm |
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I just realized what you were talking about (guns requiring electronic authorization to fire) and what I thought you were talking about (guns with rounds that are electrically initiated) are two completely different things.
Guess what, I'll agree with your position, I think that it's a bad thing. I also think the potential of electronically initiated rounds can be a good thing.
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AbNo
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 08:34 pm |
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Tomahawk wrote:
It's an example of using technology to take something that works fine and making it more complicated than it needs to be, with no increase in performance to offset the greater risk of failure. It's a terrible idea...
Generally referred to as "over-engineering".
Comp-tech wrote:
Everything you said is true...to a point. Everything you stated would apply to the "tags" that are put into products like clothes and other comsumer products but, with all due respect intended, I think the technology has "outgrown" your explanations....at least to some degree.
Here is a "commercial" chip that boasts a 40 ft range for example.... http://www.motorola.com/business/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=935ce90e3ae95110VgnVCM1000008406b00aRCRD
True. Though that Motorola most likely uses a larger antenna, and/or higher-powered transponders. It's also not rice-sized like the implanted ones.
Comp-tech wrote:
Notice the dates on the two above articles....one would think they'd likely have it "perfected" by now.
I'd also tend to think that an implanted chip would be harder to "nuke" in the microwave... 
In my previous example (the crackly one), you don't put it IN a microwave, you use something along the lines of a microwave "gun", or beamer to cook the chip.
Like I said, you could build one out of parts in a home microwave. You can also use them to light fluorescent light tubes!
bohdi wrote:
Guess what, I'll agree with your position, I think that it's a bad thing. I also think the potential of electronically initiated rounds can be a good thing.
http://www.metalstorm.com/
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/310622/fire_power/
(Though I don't believe the "can't jam" part)Last edited on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 08:37 pm by AbNo
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TheEggman
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat May 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 176 |
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 09:05 pm |
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Disabling 'Chips.'
One of the tools we used in the darkroom was a 'ZeroStat' gun.
Essentially it's a peizoelectric device that emits a positive charge when SLOWLY squeezed, and a negative charge when SLOWLY released. The net result is that it dissipates the static charge on film so dust doesn't cling when it goes into the enlarger.
If you make the mistake of squeezing too fast and the gun is close to the skin you can get quite a nasty little ZAP. A 'Spark Lighter' from a gas grill has the same effect.
One of my techs 'zapped' his digital watch with one and it's now just a bracelet. It's RUMORED that it can have a similar effect on various RFID and LP tags.
NOTE: The mfg warns against trying to take onto an aircraft since there's no way they'll understand what it is.
Egg
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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 09:21 pm |
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Mere rumor. Piezoelectric crystals produce static electricity.
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Comp-tech
State Researcher
| Joined: | Tue Apr 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 935 |
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 11:01 pm |
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LEO 229 wrote: I am not sure how many people are going to nuke their body in a microwave..
Those that would go to this extreme will likely fight tooth and nail to not get it implanted to start with.
Agreed, the microwave comment was an attempt at brevity....(obviously failed)
I will not worry about the government trying to lo-jack me until the time comes.
I am confident that this would never happen as the people wold never stand for it. Do a count here and see how many would really want it or allow it. ZERO!! Look at how hard it is just to try and get a national ID card...!!!
Also agreed...as to the folks here. But, did you not notice the "over one million infants" cite above? Not to mention all the patrons of "trendy" clubs voluntarily getting chipped.
This board is open carry related and this thread has completely shifted to big brother lo-jacking us. We need to stay on track.
If you would have a look at the thread topic "FBI wants palm print, eye scans, tattoo mapping", I don't think you can claim this line of posts to be off topic....
How many people in here would really want a gun that required electronics to operate for them to be authorized to actually shoot the gun...?? I for one would NOT!!
None here I would think...certainly not me....
I hope nobody here is buying stock in those companies because they are going to sink!!
This company has been around since Dec '01 and has grown into a worldwide provider for the technology with several different divisions...it might be a better investment than you think...
Company’s revenues at the high-end of its previously stated $30-32 million range, a year-over-year increase of 17 percent [size=DELRAY BEACH, FL – January 15, 2008 – VeriChip Corporation (“VeriChip” or the “Company”) (Nasdaq: CHIP), a provider of RFID systems for healthcare and patient-related needs, announced today that it expects revenues for 2007 at the high-end of the Company's previously released guidance of $30-32 million. During the fourth quarter of 2007, the Company continued to experience strong sales of its healthcare security products, specifically its infant protection and wander prevention systems.]
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swillden
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 11:47 pm |
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AbNo wrote: True. Though that Motorola most likely uses a larger antenna, and/or higher-powered transponders. It's also not rice-sized like the implanted ones. Higher-powered transcievers in the "reader", and larger antenna, and lower operating voltage. To get those long ranges you have to do all three.
The larger antenna has another effect, though: The larger antenna means that for a given field strength a larger potential is induced. Couple that with the low operating voltage (and, hence, low design voltage) and it's clear why the long-range tags are much easier to burn out than the short-range tags.
AbNo wrote:In my previous example (the crackly one), you don't put it IN a microwave, you use something along the lines of a microwave "gun", or beamer to cook the chip.
You can use a microwave oven, too. You have to modify it so that it'll run with the door open. Since it takes less than a second for a typical oven to burn out a typical tag, you'd just set the timer for 1-2 seconds, put the body part from the tag right in front of the open door and hit "Start". You won't get enough tissue heating in such a short time to do any damage -- probably not even enough to feel it -- but the tag will be history.
Or, better yet, just refuse to let someone implant it in you in the first place.
The funniest application of implanted tags I've heard of to date is a few tourist towns in Spain. Lots of Brits like to vacation in Spain, and many of them "vacation" by going on a 2-3 week bender. For about $50 they can get a chip implanted in their shoulder, and all of the bars have readers and can charge drinks to the account associated with the chip ID.
The attraction for the tourists is that they can stagger from bar to bar for days without having to keep track of their wallet. The issue isn't even so much about the worry that their wallet might be stolen, it's just the convenience of not having to worry about it, and being able to easily pay for more drinks when you're too drunk to be able to fish your wallet out of your pocket.
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swillden
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 13th, 2008 11:53 pm |
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Doug Huffman wrote: Mere rumor. Piezoelectric crystals produce static electricity.
Static electricity is very effective at burning out electronics.
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AbNo
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 06:23 am |
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swillden wrote:
Static electricity is very effective at burning out electronics.
Exactly. Try not wearing an anti-static wrist band in a computer repair class, and see how long it takes before you get tossed out.
swillden wrote:
AbNo wrote: True. Though that Motorola most likely uses a larger antenna, and/or higher-powered transponders. It's also not rice-sized like the implanted ones. Higher-powered transcievers in the "reader", and larger antenna, and lower operating voltage. To get those long ranges you have to do all three.
The larger antenna has another effect, though: The larger antenna means that for a given field strength a larger potential is induced. Couple that with the low operating voltage (and, hence, low design voltage) and it's clear why the long-range tags are much easier to burn out than the short-range tags.
AbNo wrote:In my previous example (the crackly one), you don't put it IN a microwave, you use something along the lines of a microwave "gun", or beamer to cook the chip.
You can use a microwave oven, too. You have to modify it so that it'll run with the door open. Since it takes less than a second for a typical oven to burn out a typical tag, you'd just set the timer for 1-2 seconds, put the body part from the tag right in front of the open door and hit "Start". You won't get enough tissue heating in such a short time to do any damage -- probably not even enough to feel it -- but the tag will be history.
Or, better yet, just refuse to let someone implant it in you in the first place.
I wasn't talking about burning out a chip in YOU, I'm talking about killing a chip in an unwitting "victim".
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ijusam
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 07:12 am |
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Wright tired to escape but thanks to an OnStar device he didn't get very far, police said.
"OnStar was able to tell us where the vehicle was. Our state police helicopter got involved, located the vehicle in Pennsylvania and worked with state police to give them a location for the vehicle," Bushweller said
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/national/article.aspx?storyid=80646
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LEO 229
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | NOVA, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 7618 |
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 12:15 pm |
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We started out chatting about CHP holders and the FBI having their prints on file.... how to defeat the government RFID chipping citizens.... to the the police catching a criminal in a stolen vehicle where the owner elected to subscribe to OnStar service.
Please keep it gun related.
Last edited on Thu Feb 14th, 2008 12:16 pm by LEO 229
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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 12:36 pm |
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| I think that everyone here is comfortable with the owner's/administrtors'/modertors' opinions on topicality.
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TheEggman
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat May 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 176 |
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 01:59 pm |
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Doug Huffman wrote: Mere rumor. Piezoelectric crystals produce static electricity.
And could you please explain the relevance of this?
An electrical arc, regardless of the source can cook a microchip and many inductive circuits. After all, lightning is just 'static' electricity and a lot of RFID tags use inductive circuits for power.
If you think it's a rumor why not take a peizo ignitor and zap a nice, expensive digital watch, or perhaps any random chip in your computer with it and see if it doesn't do damage.
BTW, ZeroStat guns DO work. I don't just play an engineer on the Internet, 'I are one.'
E
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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 02:33 pm |
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Because 'it' can happen doesn't mean that it must.
I don't just play engineer on the 'net, I retired as one in real life. This is the link to a different public shipyard than mine, closed by BRAC03, but my division. http://www.nnsy1.navy.mil/DeptLinks/test_division.htm
I physically (chainfalls, soldering iron and time domain reflectometer) installed a first back-fit micro-electronic reactor instrumentation system. I physically built custom temperature compensating diodes.
Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$
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swillden
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 14th, 2008 02:48 pm |
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AbNo wrote: I wasn't talking about burning out a chip in YOU, I'm talking about killing a chip in an unwitting "victim".
Ah, right. Sorry, missed that. Yeah, that would also be easy. If you employed a little tactical care you could even do it without the "victim" knowing you did it. A smart mass murderer could even hide small transmitters near each entry to his target area, ensuring that when the cops arrived all their weapons would be non-functional. Nice.
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