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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:51 pm |
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What were the police thinking, putting a gun to the head of the professor??
Link here:
http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=7923804
Local College Causes Stir With Gunman Drill
Feb 25, 2008 07:26 PM EST
Some Elizabeth State University students are upset after being almost scared to death by a recent safety drill on campus.
On Friday, an undercover campus officer barged into a history class in the Moore building and held the class hostage. According to students, he even held a gun to the professor's head! It was all part of an emergency alert system drill that the school was planning for months. Problem is...not everyone knew it was a drill.
Four days earlier, the school did begin sending out emails to students saying there would be some sort of emergency drill on Friday. It did not specify where or exactly what time the drill would occur. It also did not mention the nature of the drill.
Then, on Friday, a few minutes before it all went down, the school sent out an alert saying there would be an armed intruder in Moore building who would be detained by campus police. Again, it did not specify which classroom. However, only about half the campus has voluntarily signed up for the instant text alerts to their phones, so most people in that particular classroom, including the professor in that class, had no idea it was a drill. By phone on Monday morning, Professor Jingbin Wang said he was shocked and did not know it was a drill. "Everyone was scared," he said. He said some students were prepared to jump out the window. Another colleague told him that her students were using tables and chairs to block the door of their classroom. "Her heart was racing," he said about his fellow teacher.
"I cannot believe a university would subject their own students to such a horrific event," one family member of a student in that classroom wrote us. " They were terrified! It is extremely poor judgement on the part of the administration at ECSU."
Effective training for students in the wake of the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings? Or a safety drill taken one step too far?
Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs Anthony Brown took our questions Monday afternoon.
"If there are people who have concerns and they were surprised, it was not our intention to surprise or shock anybody and if that occurs we are there for them," said Brown. "I really offer our sincere apology, because that was not the intent of this."
Then we asked him point blank, "Don't you think a normal person would be shocked if the person coming at their professor with a gun was a campus officer?
"Well, we did send out emails five days in advance and continued it through with alerts," said Brown.
We then pointed out that those initial alerts did not mention a gunman!
"No," he said. "That alert occurred on the day, on the day of the event."
So then we pressed further, that isn't it true that the school was absolutely aware that not all students would get that alert because not all students are signed up for the alert.
"That's absolutely true," he said. "That's where we have to test out the system and our communication among each other. Because if your neighbor knows something and you don't that tests something, that tests the communication. We should look out for each other, so that's something we learned. Paper and text and emails are one thing, but word of mouth is perhaps most important."
Again, word of mouth obviously did not spread around in time for the students in this classroom to get the warning this was a drill.
One student we talked to requested a private meeting with administration regarding her terrifying experience during the drill.
For now, the school is standing by the drill, saying that the administration, campus police and students learned from the experience. More drills are planned.
If you would like to sign up for the school's alerts to come instantly to your cell or your email, head to http://www.ecsc.edu and look for the sparkly icon at the very top of the homepage called PIER Emergency Communications System.
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I really hope they rethink the drills. They are a tragedy waiting to happen. If you were in class with a concealed firearm would you hvae shot the undecover police officer posing as gunman?
Last edited on Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:53 pm by Thundar
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MetalChris
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:59 pm |
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I would've definitely drawn down on him, causing him to wet his pants. That is assuming his gun was unloaded for the purposes of the drill...you never know these days.
Damn cops! 
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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 01:00 pm |
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Thundar wrote: Some Elizabeth State University students are upset after being almost scared to death by a recent safety drill on campus.
Effective training for students in the wake of the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings? Or a safety drill taken one step too far?
Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety. Even the use of the word by the 'administrators' is as thoughtless as Joycelyn Elders' "Its for the chilldruun!"
Because they are in a banning stuff mood, will they ban handtools that resemble pistols or mandate they be colored pussy-pink (merely hot-pink toys has not been effective).
Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 01:06 pm |
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Doug Huffman wrote: Thundar wrote: Some Elizabeth State University students are upset after being almost scared to death by a recent safety drill on campus.
Effective training for students in the wake of the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings? Or a safety drill taken one step too far?
Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety. Even the use of the word by the 'administrators' is as thoughtless as Joycelyn Elders' "Its for the chilldruun!"
Because they are in a banning stuff mood, will they ban handtools that resemble pistols or mandate they be colored pussy-pink (merely hot-pink toys has not been effective).
Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$
The painted pink gun is not a bad idea. When I used to practice security breech drills working for Uncle Sam the brechers carried plastic guns that were a distinctive blue or red color. We used these distinctly painted prop guns to minimize the possibility of confusion and tragedy.
Last edited on Tue Feb 26th, 2008 01:35 pm by Thundar
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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 01:26 pm |
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We had a particularly unpleasant 'federal auditor' (name and agency withheld) try an authorized security breach knowing that the guard was armed without ammunition. The junior enlistedman butted the jerk with his shotgun and laid him out at gun point while sounding the GA. Skipper couldn't decide whether to @#$% or go blind with pride or prejudice.
On my first ship (USS Paricutin AE-18), there were no events passed as "this is a drill, this is a drill." Drills instill complacency and we were to always respond as to the real thing. I was big and junior so my job was to run with a Red-Devil blower on my shoulder. Security alarm systems were my responsibility. A supervisory-circuit alarm had me at the point of a loaded Thompson held by an idiot GM. His ships entertainment circuit failed soon after. Power to the telephone man!
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Liko81
Founder's Club Member
| Joined: | Wed Dec 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Dallas, TX |
| Posts: | 487 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 03:53 pm |
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Thundar wrote: I really hope they rethink the drills. They are a tragedy waiting to happen. If you were in class with a concealed firearm would you hvae shot the undecover police officer posing as gunman?
Well CC is outlawed in Texas college buildings, but let's assume for a minute that particular point of law wasn't in question and I was carrying. Yes, I would draw. Whether I fired depends on the events of the next split second. If the gunman so much as twitches in my general direction he's getting a double-tap. I would hope a police officer, trained in tactical situations and holding either a prop or empty gun would know not to do anything stupid.
Wouldn't the Brady Bunch just love for a drill to turn deadly. I can see the headlines: "CHL Holder Murders Officer During College Drill". That's all they'd need to counter and eliminate all opposition to gun-free zones and support for concealed carry laws all in one fell swoop. They would absolutely have a field day.
Of course the rational response is, "well, we now have proof that CHLs in schools make the gunman the only casualty"  But it's kinda hard to think that way when there's a police officer dead by a CHL's hand.
Last edited on Tue Feb 26th, 2008 03:54 pm by Liko81
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deepdiver
Activist Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 4629 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 03:57 pm |
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Stupid. Irreponsible. Wreckless. A few thoughts that come to mind ....
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 12:23 pm |
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| Would this be a good poll question?
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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 12:28 pm |
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To what end, a poll?
We know how each of us thinks of 'safety' from our previous postings. The 'others' will no more attend to the results of our poll of opinions than we do to CNN's push-polls.
Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$
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unrequited
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 09:59 pm |
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Holy hell. You gotta be kidding me. I'm glad I wasn't sitting in that classroom.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/968432.html
An armed man who burst into a classroom at Elizabeth City State University was role-playing in an emergency response drill, but neither the students nor assistant professor Jingbin Wang knew that.
"I was prepared to die at that moment," Wang said Tuesday.
The Friday drill, in which a mock gunman threatened panicked students in the American foreign policy class with death, prompted university officials to apologize this week to Wang and offer counseling to faculty and students.
Anthony Brown, vice chancellor for student affairs, said the university was testing its response to shootings of the sort that have shaken campuses around the country. "The intent was not to frighten them but to test our system and also to test the response of the security that was on campus and the people that were notified," Brown said.
The drill was conducted just eight days after a gunman stormed a Northern Illinois University classroom, killing five people before he took his own life. Brown said students, staff and faculty were notified five days in advance that a drill would take place. The word went out via e-mail and text messages. Not everyone got the word.
At 1:31 p.m. Friday, e-mail and text messages kicked off the drill with the announcement: "This is a test. ECSU is holding a test drill where an armed intruder will enter a room in Moore Hall and be detained by campus police."
The mock intruder, a campus police officer, carried a red plastic model gun, according to a university news release.
Wang, who teaches history and political science, said Tuesday in a telephone interview he was having a discussion in his foreign policy class when the man came to the door and said he wanted to talk with him.
"Suddenly the man pointed the gun at me," he said.
Wang said he did not know whether the gun was real. "I saw the gun but didn't have too much time to think about that," he said. "The man was serious."
Up against the wall
The intruder instructed Wang to close the door and then ordered the seven students to line up along the wall. Wang said the man told them that he had been kicked out of school and that he needed a lung transplant.
At one point, Wang said, the man threatened to kill the student who had the lowest grade point average. Wang offered to let him sit in his class, he said, but the man rejected attempts at negotiation.
Wang said some students thought the gun was fake, but they were not sure. "I was the guy who was feeling the gun on my back," he said.
After about 10 minutes, the class heard people talking outside the door, and campus police rushed in and subdued the man. "Even after this was over, nobody explained it," Wang said.
He said colleagues told him that students in another classroom blocked a door with a table and chair -- just as students did in Norris Hall at Virginia Tech in April, when 32 students were killed by student gunman Seung-Hui Cho.
During ECSU's drill, some students sent text messages to their parents, Wang said. Another staffer told Wang that students said they were prepared to jump out of a window.
The Virginia Tech shooting has led universities across the United States to re-evaluate safety and implement new procedures for identifying troubled students and notifying people in the event of an emergency. Many campuses have conducted safety drills. In January, UNC-Greensboro held an active shooter exercise that was attended by law enforcement and university officials from around the state. But that drill was planned for winter break, when students were not on campus.
Who in the hell thought this would be anything but a disaster? I hope heads roll in the administration for this, and I'm glad (and at the same time upset) that no CHP holders stopped him with a not-so-fake gun.
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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 10:03 pm |
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| http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/8481.html
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compmanio365
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 10:06 pm |
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| Hmm, yeah, my thought was "Well, lucky for him there wasn't someone who chose to be armed even in school in that class......" I know what I would have done had I been there.........
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Decoligny
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 10:19 pm |
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They need to take a lesson from the military. Since it was an "excercise" to eliminate to possibility of the players getting killed, they should have entered saying "EXCERCISE, EXCERCISE, EXCERCISE, this room is under simulated attack by a simulated deranged killer with a simulated weapon, This in only an Excercise"
Since this excercise was to test the response of Security, then the students and the teacher did not have to be put into such a realistic scenario without any prior explanation.
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DrewGunner
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:06 pm |
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| WOW!!! What a horrible idea. That could have ended very very bad for that guy if some of us would have been in that classroom.
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Dutch Uncle
Activist Member
| Joined: | Thu May 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 1409 |
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:09 pm |
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What kind of bone-headed idiot would burst in this way??? I almost wish one of the students had picked up a chair and clobbered that nincompoop over the head!
I guess this exercise showed again that students are willing to be passive victims. Really sad.....
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DrewGunner
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:21 pm |
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Doug Huffman wrote: Thundar wrote: Some Elizabeth State University students are upset after being almost scared to death by a recent safety drill on campus.
Effective training for students in the wake of the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings? Or a safety drill taken one step too far?
Safety is a tyrant's tool; no one can be against safety. Even the use of the word by the 'administrators' is as thoughtless as Joycelyn Elders' "Its for the chilldruun!"
Because they are in a banning stuff mood, will they ban handtools that resemble pistols or mandate they be colored pussy-pink (merely hot-pink toys has not been effective).
Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$
Pussy-Pink...? I didn't get that color in my crayon box, dam.
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lockman
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Aug 19th, 2006 |
| Location: | Elgin, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 638 |
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:34 pm |
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| If the students were detained at gunpoint (dummy gun or not) it would be kidnapping in most states.
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jpierce
Administrator
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:36 pm |
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lockman wrote: If the students were detained at gunpoint (dummy gun or not) it would be kidnapping in most states.
I mentioned that in the press release that I sent out.
*************************************************************
OpenCarry.org Press Release - February 26th, 2008
*************************************************************
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
*************************************************************
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College Class Held Hostage by Crazed Administration
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On Friday, February 22nd, students in a history class in the Moore Building at Elizabeth City State University in Elizabeth City, NC, were startled when an armed man burst into the room, placed a gun to the professors head and held the entire class hostage. The professor, Jingbin Wang, was terrified as were other students in the Moore Building who barricaded themselves into classrooms or tried to jump out of windows. (1)
Imagine the terror of parents and loved ones who received panicked cell phone calls from those who thought they might be facing death. Other students were almost certainly contemplating how to stage a last-ditch, desperate group attack on the gunman. Ultimately, the situation was resolved when the gunman abruptly announced that he was an undercover campus security officer who was participating in a preparedness drill.
Amazingly, the administration of ECSU had planned and executed a preparedness drill which involved kidnapping a professor and a classroom full of students while brandishing a firearm! Neither the students nor the professor were aware of the drill.
The university administration points to an email alert that was sent literally only minutes before the attack. They contend that the purpose of the test was to see how quickly an alert would pass by word of mouth from those students who had signed up for email alerts to those who had not. The answer, by the way, is "Not quickly enough".
Regardless of the administration's thought process or reasons for the attack, these are not valid defenses to the crimes that were committed against those present in the Moore Building. And yes, crimes were committed. When you hold another person against their will at gunpoint, that is kidnapping. You cannot simply later put the gun away and say "I was kidding.". The same is true of placing a gun against a professor's head. A teaching contract does not obligate an instructor to allow themselves to be terrorized at the whim of the university administration.
This entire episode placed the University, the state and the taxpayers in a position of immense liability. Had students been injured trying to flee the building then ECSU would have been liable and had any of the students, instructors or employees present in the Moore Building decided to fight back, then any resulting injuries or deaths would also have placed the taxpayers of North Carolina in an actionable position.
Clearly the fallout from this disastrous decision is far from over. Some students have reportedly sought, or are planning to seek, counseling for the trauma they suffered and at least one student has asked to meet with the administration to discuss their future college plans.
OpenCarry.org calls upon the State of North Carolina to take immediate action to terminate those in the ECSU administration who made this terrible decision. Anyone who could defend such a policy is in no way competent to be placed in a position of power over the lives of others. Furthermore, OpenCarry.org notes that North Carolina is one of only 16 states which makes it a crime for faculty, staff and adult students to legally carry firearms for self-defense and calls upon the North Carolina Legislature to amend their statutes to correct this injustice and place the lives of students above the politics of "Victim Disarmament Zones".
John Pierce
##########################
Contact anytime on gun stories:
John Pierce/Mike Stollenwerk
http://www.OpenCarry.org
A national pro-gun Internet community with more than 3,900 registered members
News media reports citing OpenCarry.org's perspective: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum63
##########################
FOOTNOTES
---------------
1) Local College Causes Stir With Gunman Drill, WTKR News Channel 3, Feb. 25, 2008, available at http://www.wtkr.com/global/story.asp?s=7923804
Last edited on Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:36 pm by jpierce
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jpierce
Administrator
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:39 pm |
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The News & Observer quoted me in an story they did today.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/968432.html
Mock gunman terrifies students
John Pierce of Bristol, Va., a spokesman for a pro-gun Internet group called OpenCarry.org, said the university's drill was poorly planned and dangerous. He said people in the class could have been killed or injured trying to escape or could have harmed the role player.
He called for the state to make it legal for individuals to carry firearms for self-defense. He said North Carolina is one of 16 states that make it a crime for people to carry firearms on campuses.
Last edited on Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:40 pm by jpierce
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MetalChris
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:46 pm |
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Liko81 wrote: I would hope a police officer...would know not to do anything stupid.
HA!
Last edited on Wed Feb 27th, 2008 11:48 pm by MetalChris
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