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UTOC-45-44
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Utah USA |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17th, 2007 10:01 pm |
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BobCav wrote: Jared wrote: BobCav wrote: League, you took the words right outta my mouth!
US citizens by birth cannot gain dual citizenship. To declare citizenship in another country, you have to denounce your American citizenship. My wife is a dual citizen of both Brazil and the US and I've researched it plenty. There's something about living in Brazil off my military retirement and not paying US taxes that is very, very appealing.
Lemme tell you, I've been to Israel with the US Navy and there were some hot sexy young ladies wearing cammies and packing UZI's when I was there. Going to the Western Wall we passed through a security checkpoint and I tried my best to get patted down by one of those fine young ladies... she just laughed and told me to keep moving!
US Citizens by birth can be dual citizens or even citizens of more then 2 places. Many places recognize citizenship by blood. Many of my co-workers are citizens of Mexico because of this. Secondly, you only lose US citizenship if you take an oath of allegance to the other country and you take the oath outside of the United States.
Many US citizens become citizens of the phillipines because you no not need to take an oath of allegiance.
Jared, it looks like you're correct. I researched it ust after I was married and thought I remembered seeing something that prohibited dual citizenship. Must not have looked in the right place. Since my wife is a Brasiliera, I may be eligible for dual citizenship, or at the very least, a permanent visa.
Yea, Bob I do remember that You have a Wife from Brazil.
Brazilian women...,I tell you.
I had a "hand-2-hand combat" with a Brazilian woman once . And finally my "Gun" went off in "self-defense".She didn't mind. I was "OCing" so she could see it coming .Oh my...one of the best "AD's" I ever had
Anyways..., I'm a Swedish Citizen ( White Male ) and have been here in the U.S for 9 years ( just shy of 2week ) and I just a few months ago applied for a U.S Citizenship. Am I then A Bad Person GaGunOwner.???
I've Paid my dues ( taxes ) and ALL the $$$ for all documents to be able to get this Privilege. It has cost me about $1500 all-in-all + ALL THE STRESS.
(Believe me if you haven't gone thru the rigamaro you will not understand what it takes. 1 time I didn't have a Birth Cerificate stamped from Sweden and INS would allow a faxed copy from Sweden (this was to get my Work Permit,just because one marries a U.S Citizen one does not automatically get to work,there is ALOT of work to get there). My dad had to drive 45 min to get the Document and a Notary Public to validate it. He then had to successfully fax it to a location I was at ( Kinko's ). I was about 30 min away from my deadline to have ALL documents turned in or I WOULD BE DEPORTED,and I would not have had the opportunity to return to the U.S for at least 5 years.)
So if I shouldn't be able to have a Dual-Citizenship I then should not be able to have a Residency Permit either??? and therefore NOT be able to "Bear arms" to Protect my Beautiful wife, my ugly face and Family and friends + everyone else that needs protection ???
Why do you frown upon Dual- Citizenship ???
Just my .45
Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 12:52 am by UTOC-45-44
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 02:58 am |
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Forgive me if I missed it, but what did you find out about non-Jewish Americans OCing in Israel?
VERY interesting information on this thread. COOL!
Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 02:59 am by BB62
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Jared
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 06:45 pm |
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BobCav wrote: Jared wrote: BobCav wrote: League, you took the words right outta my mouth!
US citizens by birth cannot gain dual citizenship. To declare citizenship in another country, you have to denounce your American citizenship. My wife is a dual citizen of both Brazil and the US and I've researched it plenty. There's something about living in Brazil off my military retirement and not paying US taxes that is very, very appealing.
Lemme tell you, I've been to Israel with the US Navy and there were some hot sexy young ladies wearing cammies and packing UZI's when I was there. Going to the Western Wall we passed through a security checkpoint and I tried my best to get patted down by one of those fine young ladies... she just laughed and told me to keep moving!
US Citizens by birth can be dual citizens or even citizens of more then 2 places. Many places recognize citizenship by blood. Many of my co-workers are citizens of Mexico because of this. Secondly, you only lose US citizenship if you take an oath of allegance to the other country and you take the oath outside of the United States.
Many US citizens become citizens of the phillipines because you no not need to take an oath of allegiance.
Jared, it looks like you're correct. I researched it ust after I was married and thought I remembered seeing something that prohibited dual citizenship. Must not have looked in the right place. Since my wife is a Brasiliera, I may be eligible for dual citizenship, or at the very least, a permanent visa.
I hope I'm right, I enforce immigration law on a daily basis.  As long as you do not take an oath of allegiance in your legal name, you will be ok. The US can not stop a foreign entity from granting you citizenship. Just be careful, some places have mandatory time in service, if you were visiting and called into service, while you are there, their is only so much the American Embassy can do for you
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Jared
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 06:49 pm |
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UTOC-45-44 wrote: BobCav wrote: Jared wrote: BobCav wrote: League, you took the words right outta my mouth!
US citizens by birth cannot gain dual citizenship. To declare citizenship in another country, you have to denounce your American citizenship. My wife is a dual citizen of both Brazil and the US and I've researched it plenty. There's something about living in Brazil off my military retirement and not paying US taxes that is very, very appealing.
Lemme tell you, I've been to Israel with the US Navy and there were some hot sexy young ladies wearing cammies and packing UZI's when I was there. Going to the Western Wall we passed through a security checkpoint and I tried my best to get patted down by one of those fine young ladies... she just laughed and told me to keep moving!
US Citizens by birth can be dual citizens or even citizens of more then 2 places. Many places recognize citizenship by blood. Many of my co-workers are citizens of Mexico because of this. Secondly, you only lose US citizenship if you take an oath of allegance to the other country and you take the oath outside of the United States.
Many US citizens become citizens of the phillipines because you no not need to take an oath of allegiance.
Jared, it looks like you're correct. I researched it ust after I was married and thought I remembered seeing something that prohibited dual citizenship. Must not have looked in the right place. Since my wife is a Brasiliera, I may be eligible for dual citizenship, or at the very least, a permanent visa.
Yea, Bob I do remember that You have a Wife from Brazil.
Brazilian women...,I tell you.
I had a "hand-2-hand combat" with a Brazilian woman once. And finally my "Gun" went off in "self-defense".She didn't mind. I was "OCing" so she could see it coming.Oh my...one of the best "AD's" I ever had
Anyways..., I'm a Swedish Citizen ( White Male ) and have been here in the U.S for 9 years ( just shy of 2week ) and I just a few months ago applied for a U.S Citizenship. Am I then A Bad Person GaGunOwner.???
I've Paid my dues ( taxes ) and ALL the $$$ for all documents to be able to get this Privilege. It has cost me about $1500 all-in-all + ALL THE STRESS.
(Believe me if you haven't gone thru the rigamaro you will not understand what it takes. 1 time I didn't have a Birth Cerificate stamped from Sweden and INS would allow a faxed copy from Sweden (this was to get my Work Permit,just because one marries a U.S Citizen one does not automatically get to work,there is ALOT of work to get there). My dad had to drive 45 min to get the Document and a Notary Public to validate it. He then had to successfully fax it to a location I was at ( Kinko's ). I was about 30 min away from my deadline to have ALL documents turned in or I WOULD BE DEPORTED,and I would not have had the opportunity to return to the U.S for at least 5 years.)
So if I shouldn't be able to have a Dual-Citizenship I then should not be able to have a Residency Permit either??? and therefore NOT be able to "Bear arms" to Protect my Beautiful wife, my ugly face and Family and friends + everyone else that needs protection ???
Why do you frown upon Dual- Citizenship ???
Just my .45
I agree, anyone who says non-citizens have no rights are bigots to be honest. If your clean and are not disqualified, they you too have a right to keep and bear arms, after all, it is a fundamental human right, right?
People who say only citizens should be able to have guns are either one of two things,
1. gun grabbers
or
2. live under a rock and would probably change their views quickly if they married someone and in the time that the spouse is not a citizen (5 years minimum from when you become a permenant resident) they somehow realize that the person they love should be entitled to CCW permits, self-defense and all that.
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Jul 24th, 2007 02:06 am |
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| Is it really necessary to quote ALL of a previous post in order to add one's comments?? Last edited on Tue Jul 24th, 2007 02:06 am by BB62
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carnaby
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Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 05:26 am |
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"as long as you are a Jewish citizen"
A Jewish citizen, or just an Israeli citizen? Can the Arab Israeli's carry guns too? They do serve in the IDF, IIRC.
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ForeignDude
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Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 10:37 am |
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I wonder if there are any provisions for military officers fro other countries to carry in Israel -- easier, more difficult (who knows?). I am an officer in the US Army, and I'd love to visit Israel with my family -- to show my kid the deep, rich history of the region.
I definitely want to go now...
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thnycav
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Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2007 07:55 pm |
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Everyone from 18 to 55 is part of the IDF that is why they can carry and the government gives them their weapons. I spent 6 months on Sinai duty with the 101st ABN and got to know a few of them in the IDF.
Second thing citizenship is determined 2 ways by the Blood ( the citizenship of the Mother) or by the land the physical place you where born. As far as Israel goes they have the right of return which means if you are of the Jewish faith you are automatically a Israeli citizen.
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Wynder
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Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2007 08:20 pm |
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thnycav wrote: Everyone from 18 to 55 is part of the IDF that is why they can carry and the government gives them their weapons. I spent 6 months on Sinai duty with the 101st ABN and got to know a few of them in the IDF.
Second thing citizenship is determined 2 ways by the Blood ( the citizenship of the Mother) or by the land the physical place you where born. As far as Israel goes they have the right of return which means if you are of the Jewish faith you are automatically a Israeli citizen.
It essentially sounds like our founding fathers' definition of a 'militia'... any able body willing to defend his or her country. This is how America might be today were we to have enemies actively engaging our borders.
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CPerdue
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Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2007 01:52 am |
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GaGunOwner wrote: snip...
Does anyone else see my point or have a problem with this? An American citizen in a foreign military?
Lafayette Escadrille. Flying Tigers. 'nuff said - uneducated moron.
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Wynder
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Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2007 02:52 am |
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CPerdue wrote: GaGunOwner wrote: snip...
Does anyone else see my point or have a problem with this? An American citizen in a foreign military?
Lafayette Escadrille. Flying Tigers. 'nuff said - uneducated moron.
God bless them.
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thnycav
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Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2007 01:29 pm |
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| You are right when the founding Fathers wrote the Constitution and bill of rights a militia was all able bodied Free men between 18 and 55. They also wanted to make sure that if the government did go too far they would have the means to overthrow it.
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Wed Sep 19th, 2007 01:59 pm |
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CPerdue wrote: GaGunOwner wrote: snip...
Does anyone else see my point or have a problem with this? An American citizen in a foreign military?
Lafayette Escadrille. Flying Tigers. 'nuff said - uneducated moron.
That's not very nice, CPerdue. Tsk, tsk. 
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Hef
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Posted: Fri Sep 21st, 2007 03:01 am |
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Ignorance is not an admirable quality.
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Fisherman48768
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 05:08 pm |
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personaltrainer1987 wrote: Hey guys,
This wasn't in New York City or even in the U.S. for that matter, but the couple that I had the conversation with were fellow Jews from Williamsburg (Brooklyn), and were visiting Tel Aviv, so I feel that it should go in the New York forums.
Backround: I just got back from Tel Aviv on Tuesday, April 10, (my Birthday, by the way!) and I had a VERY interesting experience while I was there. You see, as I've mentioned before, I'm a dual citizen with both the U.S. and Israel, so when I was 18 I enlisted into the Israeli Army for 1 1/2 years. Since I'm a dual, I was able to not only choose whether or not I would serve altogether, but if I wanted to serve for the full 3 years or for half of that time. Being patriotic, I decided to serve, but being smart, I decided to serve for half of the usual time! However, because I did the 1 1/2 years of full-time active service option, I have to remain a reservist for 5 years from the time that my enlistment ended. Thus, my enlistment ends on my 25th birthday.
As I am still a reservist in the Israeli Defense Forces, I have to report to Israel for mandatory service and training for 4 weeks out of every year. So, I went over, spent a week going through military training and qualifications/tests, and then spent 3 weeks serving in the conflict zones in the west bank.
I LOVED IT!!!! In Israel, EVERYBODY open carry's automatic weapons (8 times out of ten, its an Uzi, as they only cost about a couple hundred dollars in Israel and the government hands them out like candy anyway!) whether they are on active duty, reserves, or no longer serve. (Everybody is still in the officially recognized "populus militia") You literally walk around, and almost everybody you see from like age 14 and up (sometimes younger) has an assualt rifle, a sub-machine gun, or a machine pistol slung over their shoulder or riding on their hip! Concealed carry is HIGHLY frowned upon and very suspicious, as people tend to wonder what exactly it is that you're trying to hide by concealing your weapon. It's seen as criminal! You need a special permit to carry concealed, and their not very easy to come by (although they are issuing more and more lately.) You literally have to get fingerprinted and registered, interview with a government official in charge of permit issuance, declare your allegiance to the State of Israel, prove that you are religious, and have to declare a formal reason that you can prove as to why you need a permit to carry concealed! (And you guy's thought that New York was bad!) Simply wanting one isn't enough. You have to live in/work in/travel regularly in, one of the conflict zones, or work in a job that requires it, etc. Then, you can only CC with a pre-approved firearm, and get that firearm registered and prove that you've recieved a heavy amount of training with that firearm in a government-approved course. If you are caught carrying any other firearm on your person concealed than the one that you are authorized to carry, you can get arrested! The only exeption to all of this if you want to carry concealed is if you are an off-duty police officer or are/were a lieutenant or above in the IDF. Meaning, if at any point in your mandatory military service you are or were a lieutenant (be it active, reserve, or honorably retired,) you automatically have the right to carry concealed, should you so choose. But, their is no real reason for it. The natural alternative is to just carry open, which their are literally NO restrictions on, at all, what-so-ever, as long as you are a Jewish citizen.
Anyway, about that OC experience. So, my last weekend in Israel, its a Friday afternoon and I just finish all of my service duties in the Bank for the year! (that's what we call the West Bank). Me and 2 of my army buddies head out for Tel Aviv on the other side of the country, 'cause we still have 1 day left of reservist military service, and since we have to fly out of Tel Aviv anyway, we've been reassigned to that city for the remainder of our tour. But now its the Sabbath and we have the rest of the day and Saturday off. We get to Tel Aviv, park the army jeep at the motor pool, go up to our hotel rooms, and change out of our military fatigues. We then go out for a day on the town. It's our day off, and we're gonna make the most of it! All of us are dressed in civilian clothes, jeans, sneakers, and t-shirts. The only thing identifying us as IDF is our olive drap, army issued kippah's (yarmulkas), but then again, everybody wears those, as every adult has served and they are a symbol of supporting our troops. We're also OCing with our duty weapons (the full-size Uzi 9mm sub-machine gun) slung over our shoulders by a rifle sling. In Tel Aviv, we fit right in! (Try THAT anywhere in the U.S.!) Now granted, we're carrying Israeli-style (full mag, empty chamber, safety on as that's the law) but hey, you win some, you lose some.
We go into a coffe shop (VERY popular in Israel) in downtown right by the beach, and my two buddies go head off to the little boys room. I walk up to the counter and have a seat at the bar, looking at the menu. Just then, a husband and wife walk into the shop and stroll over to where I'm sitting. As they sit down on my right at the two empty bar stools there, the wife brushes up against my Uzi. Immediately, she notices it (I don't know how in the hell she missed it in the first place) and she starts to panic! Then, I quickly find out why. She turns to her husband on her right, and says to him in a VERY audible, yet wisper-style tone, "Herb, that kid is wearing a machine gun!!" Here's the catch... she said it in English in a very clear, very distinct Brooklyn Jewish accent! She figured that since she was in Israel and that I was a young guy, I couldn't speak English, just Hebrew (which, in all fairness, is often times the case with young men and women in Israel.)
Her husband says to her, also in a Brooklyn Jewish accent (most likely Williamsburg area) in English, "Well, honey, that's what they do here. We've seen that a lot since we arrived. Why is it surprising you now?" She replies, "Yeah, but this kid looks really, really young, like a teenager! And I just brushed up against a machine gun!"
All the while, I'm just sitting there, looking at the menu, pretending like I can't understand what they're saying! The wife says, "Herb, you speak Hebrew! Would you mind talking to this kid for me?! Ask him why he's wearing an assault rifle!" The husband replies, "Look Marge, I'm not intruding into this kid's personal business! I'm sure that he has some sort of reason for carrying that thing. Besides, there's nothing illegal about what he's doing in this country!"
Marge replies, "Well, he's just a kid (I do look really young, in all fairness) and he's making me nervous with that thing! Would you just talk to him?!"
Herb, "Alright, alright. I'll talk to him, I'll talk to 'em. But don't blame me if he gets pissed of and shoots us both!"
Turning to me, and tapping me on the right shoulder, Herb says to me in really crappy, indistict, heavily accented Hebrew, "Hey kid, my wife wants to know; Why are you carrying around a machine gun?!"
Slowly, I shift my body around to face both him and his wife, both looking at me very intently, and respond in a clear, Connecticut accent in English, "Why do you think?!"
Herb and Marge look astonished! I wish I could describe for you the look on their faces! It was priceless! Marge says, fumbling around her words a lot, "You're an AMERICAN!!!!" I replied, "Yeah, I'm a dual citizen. I spent my early years growing up between Israel and Connecticut, and then i moved permanently to the States when I was a teenager."
Herb; "But, but, why do you carry a gun?! And a machine gun for that matter?! You're an American!!! We don't do that sort of thing!"
I replied; "Well, then your obviously not from the same part of America that I'm from! Where I come from, people do that sort of thing everyday."
Marge; "We're from New York, and people don't even own guns where we live!"
Me; "Oh yes they do! Half of everybody you know owns a gun. They just don't talk about it or carry it."
Herb; "No, that can't be! There's NO WAY! We'd know about it!"
Me; "Would you?"
Marge; "Well, I guess not. Not if they don't talk about it."
Me; "Approximately half of all New Yorkers own guns, statistically speaking."
Herb; "Well, then... I guess you learn something new everyday."
Me; "In my case, I carry both here in Israel and Stateside in Connecticut. Although, admittedly, the style of carry and the weapon selection is vastly different between those two locations."
Herb; "Yeah, I'll say! You sure don't see kids walking around with automatic weapons in New York!"
Me laughing; "Sure ya do! They're just breaking the law there. There's a big difference.
Marge; "No, he means doing it legally!"
Me; "I wish that we did though. I like the Israeli method better."
Marge; "Really!! But imagine how much crime there would be!"
Me again laughing hysterically; "Oh yeah! Take a look around you! Do you see shootouts and mass murders in the streets?!! Okay, okay.... aside from the Palestinian terrorists attacks, do you see OK corral shootouts and mass murders in the streets here?!"
Herb; "Well no, but..."
Me interrupting him; "But nothing! Aside from the terrorist attacks, Israel has essentially NO violent crime! Our citizen-on-citizen violent crime rate is the lowest in the entire developed world! Why do you think that is? It's cause EVERYBODY'S armed! No criminal in their right mind is going to try to mug or rape a Jew in Israel. They know that they'll get shot about 50 or 60 times before they can even get going! Imagine if that was the case in America. Every law-abiding citizen walked around with a gun. There would be NO CRIME!!! Criminals would be scared @#$%less of doing anything wrong to anyone!"
Herb; "Well yeah, I guess that you have a point, but I would be too scared in America to go outside my house if I knew that everybody that I met was armed!"
Me; "Well, how do you feel right now? Do you feel scared, or nervous, or do you feel calm and relaxed?"
Marge; "Well, right now I feel calm and relaxed, I guess."
Me; "Yeah, well guess what. EVERYBODY around you right now is armed!! (There were about 40 or so people in the coffe shop at that moment, about half of them with automatic weapons over their shoulders or on their hips, but I approached a random guy wearing a kippah sitting in a chair, no weapon visible, reading a Tenach (the old testament).
Me, to the random guy, speaking in Hebrew; "Hey sir, what's your name?"
Random guy; "Moshe Latsman, why?"
Me (showing him my IDF ID card); "Corporal (my hebrew name), Israeli Army. Are you armed?"
Moshe Latsman; "Of course!"
Me; "Let's see that weapon and permit."
Moshe stands up, opens up his suit jacket, reaches with his right hand to his left shoulder holster, and pulls out a glock 23 (.40 caliber compact) and hands it over to me. Herb and Marge look stunned! The look on their faces were priceless! I look over the guys permit and gun, tell him he's all set (even though the gun he was carrying WASN'T the Heckler and Koch USP .45 that he was registered for, but I couldn't give two @#$%s less) and he goes back to doing his thing.
Me (to Herb and wife); "See, I told you. EVERYBODY that you see is ARMED! Now tell me, do you feel any less safe than you did a grand total of thirty seconds ago?"
Herb; "Well, no, I guess not, but I still don't like guns."
Me; "And that's your perogative and you're welcome to it. Just don't force that on other people, or allow our politicians back in the States to force it on us!
Marge; "Well, it was good talking to you, young man."
Me; "Shabbat Shalom" (Happy Sabbath)
Herb and Marge; "Shabbat Shalom."
I really hope that they learned something from all of that.
Quite a story you got there, 
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GaGunOwner
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 05:29 pm |
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CPerdue wrote: GaGunOwner wrote: snip...
Does anyone else see my point or have a problem with this? An American citizen in a foreign military?
Lafayette Escadrille. Flying Tigers. 'nuff said - uneducated moron.
I know about the Flying Tigers. Did I say that I agreed with them being in a foreign military??? While I think they were admirable, times were different. I still just don't get why a U.S. citizen would join a foreign military. I'm not trying to stir this up again from months ago...
P.S. I'm a history teacher.
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KBCraig
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 05:07 am |
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GaGunOwner wrote: CPerdue wrote: GaGunOwner wrote: snip...
Does anyone else see my point or have a problem with this? An American citizen in a foreign military?
Lafayette Escadrille. Flying Tigers. 'nuff said - uneducated moron.
I know about the Flying Tigers. Did I say that I agreed with them being in a foreign military??? While I think they were admirable, times were different. I still just don't get why a U.S. citizen would join a foreign military. I'm not trying to stir this up again from months ago...
P.S. I'm a history teacher.
Then you surely know about the thousands of Americans who went to Canada and joined the British Army and RAF in WWI and WWII, before America joined the fray. Not to mention the Lincoln Brigade in Spain -- they get credit, even if they were communists.
Why shouldn't an American be free to join a foreign military? Million of non-citizens have honorably served our nation by joining the military service.
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sdg319
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 04:41 pm |
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This one's for personaltrainer1987. His last great adventure in the Holy Land.
He pulls out his IDF identity card, identifies himself as a "corporal," and demand's to see the man's weapon and permit.
All of that power in an off-duty corporal, huh? The Army guy on the receiving end of just about every order. Hmmh.
Do yourself a favor, kid. When you approach ANYONE like that to check his particulars, have your weapon chambered, the muzzle levelled, and your finger alongside the trigger. Do what you did to a drug dealer, or a terrorist, you could wind up on the receiving end of his Kel-Tec .380. And not just you, but every innocent bystander in that cafe.
BE CAREFUL.
Last edited on Fri Jun 6th, 2008 05:45 pm by sdg319
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ScottyT
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 05:06 pm |
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Holy Necro-posting Batman!
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Liko81
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Posted: Fri Jun 6th, 2008 05:28 pm |
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BobCav wrote: Jared wrote: BobCav wrote: League, you took the words right outta my mouth!
US citizens by birth cannot gain dual citizenship. To declare citizenship in another country, you have to denounce your American citizenship. My wife is a dual citizen of both Brazil and the US and I've researched it plenty. There's something about living in Brazil off my military retirement and not paying US taxes that is very, very appealing.
Lemme tell you, I've been to Israel with the US Navy and there were some hot sexy young ladies wearing cammies and packing UZI's when I was there. Going to the Western Wall we passed through a security checkpoint and I tried my best to get patted down by one of those fine young ladies... she just laughed and told me to keep moving!
US Citizens by birth can be dual citizens or even citizens of more then 2 places. Many places recognize citizenship by blood. Many of my co-workers are citizens of Mexico because of this. Secondly, you only lose US citizenship if you take an oath of allegance to the other country and you take the oath outside of the United States.
Many US citizens become citizens of the phillipines because you no not need to take an oath of allegiance.
Exactly. Israel might be considered a special case, but if you are a Jew of Jewish descent, you can apply for and maintain citizenship in Israel. The U.S. supports such dual citizenship based on separation of church and state; it regards the oath of allegiance to the Jewish nation as being equivalent to Christian rites like Baptism/Affirmation.
Back on topic, there are parts of Israeli law for security that I agree with, and parts I disagree with. The OP spends time in both places, so he can feel free to correct me, but:
- The notion of all Israeli citizens being the "populous militia" is codified in law; all citizens of serviceable age, in an emergency, are considered ad hoc military conscripts. An American cannot be forced into military service except by Congressional order (the draft).
- All citizens carry because it's the law; it's not a RIGHT to keep and bear arms, it's a DUTY, meaning that the right NOT to keep and bear arms does not exist.
- Compulsory military service is required by much of the industrialized world including Israel, but being in the Army because you have to does not inspire morale. We learned that in Vietnam and have had a volunteer military every since.
- As such, Israeli citizens get training in firearms as a matter of course. The average American is not a veteran of the Armed Forces nor the police and has little if any weapons training.
- Walking into your local grocery store in Israel is equivalent to entering a federal building, football stadium or airport terminal in the U.S. All bags are searched, weapons declared, and persons frisked. I think many here would bristle at such a blatant re-write of the Fourth Amendment, even if it did mean the NFA, '86 ban and all laws regulating OC went away.
- Strapping an M4 carbine (or Galil; it is Israel after all) to your back might sound cool, but I remember college very well and could not WAIT to get rid of my backpack at the end of the day.
- Being a Palestinian is a pretty tough gig.
I have some questions about the carry of arms by non-citizens; specifically, is it allowed? My church semi-frequently organizes trips to the Holy Land, and if I went it would be nice to have my pistol on my hip.
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