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DreQo
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 04:54 pm |
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TFED12 wrote: Gotcha Greqo,
So according to that statute, LEO's are exempt?
§ 14‑269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
(b) This section shall not apply to the following:
(1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269;
(2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;
(3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and
(4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)
Well that's where I can confused. G.S. 14-269 refers specifically to concealed handguns. On the other hand, the phrase "A person exempted from" seems to refer specifically to the exception portion of G.S. 14-269, in which case only some of the exceptions refer to concealed weapons.
The essential problem here is that some of NC's gun laws were written with only concealed carry in mind, and most seem to have been written without ANYTHING in mind. 
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swoolard
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 05:37 pm |
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DreQo wrote: Well that's where I can confused. G.S. 14-269 refers specifically to concealed handguns. On the other hand, the phrase "A person exempted from" seems to refer specifically to the exception portion of G.S. 14-269, in which case only some of the exceptions refer to concealed weapons.
The essential problem here is that some of NC's gun laws were written with only concealed carry in mind, and most seem to have been written without ANYTHING in mind.
Therein lies out problem with open carry in NC. It's not stated anywhere in the laws, therefore it's not illegal. The only laws we have governing open carry are the ones stating where we cannot take them. By common sense, if it's not allowed with concealed carry, it's not going to be allowed with open carry. While this could be argued in court, I don't care to be taken down that road, which is why when I open carry, I follow the concealed carry laws. I don't think anyone here cares to either.
There are not many places where we can't openly carry a gun in NC, just be glad we're not like Illinois and California. I'd rather there be no law than a law banning it.
And quite honestly, I wish there were a permit process for open carry in NC.
Some people open carry because concealed carry isn't practical with their attire or because they'd rather prevent an encounter rather than defend against it. Both points I agree with, but most people do not know when to use deadly force, which is what concealed carry permit holders must learn. More or less importantly, most people who carry a gun do not take even minimal training courses.
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TFED12
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 05:39 pm |
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| I can see where it would be confusing. My agency has confirmed that LEO's are exempt period. I do not usually use my LE status as a point maker on this site because there are so many bashers. But , we have been confirmed as legal. It's all in relation to HR218 after Sept. 11 to allow these exemptions for LEO's. I understand we all can't carry a cop around in our pocket. But, if there are more out there with their firearms in more places, it increases the chances of intervening if something bad should go down. I am pro open/concealed carry and as a LE, wish more citizens would carry. Thanks man. Last edited on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 05:44 pm by TFED12
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SlackwareRobert
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 222 |
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Online
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 07:00 pm |
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I would not bother them. I would leave them be, as I wish the same.
Unless she was a Sarah Palin type babe packing heat. 
I would also be a very hostile witness when called to testify.
Now if they were breaking a real law.......
Last edited on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 05:03 pm by SlackwareRobert
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swoolard
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 07:02 pm |
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Slackware? Hah! I guess I'm not the only one here who uses slackware linux. Right on.
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RayBurton72
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 28th, 2008 |
| Location: | Greensboro |
| Posts: | 99 |
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Offline
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 12:08 am |
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swoolard wrote: By common sense, if it's not allowed with concealed carry, it's not going to be allowed with open carry.
Sorry, but that is NOT the case. There are plenty of laws that specifically refer to concealed weapons (financial institutions, while consuming alcohol, etc.), and plenty that refer to any weapons (funeral processions, where alcohol is bought and consumed, parades, schools, etc.)
DreQo wrote:
Well that's where I can confused. G.S. 14-269 refers specifically to concealed handguns. On the other hand, the phrase "A person exempted from" seems to refer specifically to the exception portion of G.S. 14-269, in which case only some of the exceptions refer to concealed weapons.
The essential problem here is that some of NC's gun laws were written with only concealed carry in mind, and most seem to have been written without ANYTHING in mind.
DreQo, rather than reiterating who is exempt from a particular section, the authors simply refer back to a know place (i.e. 14-269) when making other exemptions. that way if the exemptions ever change, they only have to change one section o the law.
As it is, anyone exempt from the concealed carry requirements, are also exempted from 14-269.3 (the general ban on carrying where alcohol is bought and consumed)
Ergo, LEO can carry (anyway they choose, because the law does not specify) in a place where alcohol is sold and consumed.
Seems simple enough
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TFED12
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 12:46 am |
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Thanks Rayburton!!
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swoolard
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 12:49 am |
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RayBurton72 wrote: swoolard wrote: By common sense, if it's not allowed with concealed carry, it's not going to be allowed with open carry.
Sorry, but that is NOT the case. There are plenty of laws that specifically refer to concealed weapons (financial institutions, while consuming alcohol, etc.), and plenty that refer to any weapons (funeral processions, where alcohol is bought and consumed, parades, schools, etc.)
To be on the safe side, it is the case--for me--which was my point. Badly worded on my part. Until things are explicitly laid out in the GS, that's how I will carry--just to be safe.
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RayBurton72
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 28th, 2008 |
| Location: | Greensboro |
| Posts: | 99 |
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Offline
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 02:08 am |
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swoolard wrote: RayBurton72 wrote: swoolard wrote: By common sense, if it's not allowed with concealed carry, it's not going to be allowed with open carry.
Sorry, but that is NOT the case. There are plenty of laws that specifically refer to concealed weapons (financial institutions, while consuming alcohol, etc.), and plenty that refer to any weapons (funeral processions, where alcohol is bought and consumed, parades, schools, etc.)
To be on the safe side, it is the case--for me--which was my point. Badly worded on my part. Until things are explicitly laid out in the GS, that's how I will carry--just to be safe.
I know what you meant, but i guess my point was that your paradigm was invalid. It is NOT safe to assume that the law barring one bars the other, nor the law (or lack of law) allowing one, allows the other. There are places where you may CC, but cannot OC, and there are places you can OC that you cannot CC.
To be truly safe, you must understand ALL the laws and make your carry decisions based on that
And for your reference: (with cites for independent evaluation) NOTE: DreQo is right that the AG's firearms laws pamphlet is a terrrible thing to rely on)
WEAPONS BANNED (OC or CC)
ANY EDUCATION PROPERTY – A CLASS 1 FELONY
This includes: school buildings, school bus, campus, grounds, recreational area, athletic fields or any property owned, used, or operated by any board of education of school board of trustees… This includes public and private schools, but NOT Home Schools (NC GS 14‑269.2.)
Assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed (NC GS 14‑269.3)
State Capitol Building (and Grounds) NC GS 14‑269.4.
Executive Mansion (and Grounds) NC GS 14‑269.4.
Western Residence of the Governor (and Grounds) NC GS 14‑269.4.
Any of the General Court of Justice (If a court is housed in a building containing nonpublic uses in addition to the court, then this prohibition shall apply only to that portion of the building used for court purposes while the building is being used for court purposes) NC GS 14‑269.4.
Parades NC GS 14‑277.2.
Funeral processions NC GS 14‑277.2.
Picket lines NC GS 14‑277.2.
Demonstration on private health care facility or on any public place owned or under the control of any state or local government NC GS 14‑277.2.
During any Declared State of Emergency or in the immediate vicinity of a riot (off of one’s own premises. NC GS 14-288.7
Concealed ban: (violation is a Class 2 Misdemeanor)
All of the above, plus:
Law enforcement or correctional facilities, NC GS 14‑415.11(c)
Buildings housing only State or federal offices, NC GS 14‑415.11(c)
Offices of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, NC GS 14‑415.11(c)
Financial institutions NC GS 14‑415.11(c)
Any other premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises (except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways) NC GS 14‑415.11(c)
While consuming or under the influence of alcohol (at any level) or controlled substance unless lawfully obtained and taken as prescribed NC GS 14‑415.11(c)
Without concealed carry permit and a government issued photo ID in their possession (this is a infraction for the first offense, resulting in a fine. In lieu of a fine, permitee may surrender his permit) NC GS 14‑415.11.
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swoolard
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 02:16 am |
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On a serious note, are you telling me it's legal by common law to carry a gun openly after consumption of alcohol? Ick... I hope they fix that law.
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 02:28 am |
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I would act according to the non-aggression principle. That is, if someone commits no act of aggression (illegal holstered carry or even "mexican carry" doesn't qualify as an "act of aggression"), I will not commit an act of aggression first (calling the police in today's America, as our own Danbus knows from firsthand experience, could very well meet the criterion for "act of aggression", at least by my own standard).
As for in your example, just lecturing them on the law, I find it unnecessary. It may seem like you might be doing them a service, but, while it certainly doesn't constitute an act of aggression, it's a little pushy and might seem confrontational. I sure hope you don't ever presume to lecture me on any unconstitutional non-laws that I may be "violating." I probably won't be too polite.
Furthermore, I believe that only truly violent crimes warrant a felon's disbarment from his Natural and Constitutionally-protected right to bear arms and right to defend his person.
Not only does our current de facto definition for felony not meet this standard, but our government has demonstrated real intent to use the Felony to create a different class of citizen, one which can be gradually stripped of its rights as it simultaneously grows to include a greater percentage of the population.
I am therefore forced to conclude that, in the vast majority of circumstances where I would be likely to encounter an illegally armed person, the illegal status of their carry is very likely to be unlawful itself, by reason of Unconstitutionality. In your example, the illegality of carry in a restaurant which serves alcohol is itself unquestionably unconstitutional.
Since I am not paid by the government to be, nor am I, an enforcer of Unconstitutional, illegal, and ultimately criminal legislation, that's one job I won't be doing. I won't be their errand-boy in their quest to eliminate my rights.Last edited on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 02:41 am by marshaul
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marshaul
Activist Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 02:30 am |
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swoolard wrote:
On a serious note, are you telling me it's legal by common law to carry a gun openly after consumption of alcohol? Ick... I hope they fix that law.
Suffice it to say, I hope you don't get your way. Personal responsibility is far more effective than unenforceable legislation. But only if you don't have the legislation to end personal responsibility.
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dirtrooster
Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 1st, 2008 06:28 pm |
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| Well DreQo i hope your around when i forget im carrying. I somtimes forget , where i work i carry a radio on my hip and its just natural to me to have the extra weight at my waist. i almost went into our court house one time the sight of the metal detector reminded me. i would appreciate somone coming up to me if they saw me carrying where i shoulndt and remind me ive got it on. thats better than all the negative press that im sure would happen if caught by a cop that is less than understaning.
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GaGunOwner
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 90 |
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Offline
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Posted: Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 10:40 am |
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1) If the person is a LEO I don't care, won't say or do anything.
2) If the person is printing or whatever in a location/state where that is legal. I don't care, won't say or do anything.
3) If the person is printing or whatever in an off-limits location or in a state/location where that is illegal, I might quietly (without causing a scene) let them know that their gun has become visble. What they do after that is their business. If they seem decent I'd mind my own business and would not call the police.
4) If I thought that the person was violent or crazy (after observing them) I'd probably call the police no matter where they are.
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