I was standing on the corner of the street where an abortion clinic is "peaceably assembling" (NOT protesting). Two GPOs came up and were harassing one of the other people assembled. I walked up with phone out recording, when they notice I was open carrying (Smith & Wesson M&P .40).
I found out that after I left (I left maybe 45 mins AFTER this video) a detective came looking for me. Next weekend should be interesting.
I was standing on the corner of the street where an abortion clinic is "peaceably assembling" (NOT protesting). Two GPOs came up and were harassing one of the other people assembled. I walked up with phone out recording, when they notice I was open carrying (Smith & Wesson M&P .40).
How were the two GPOs "harrasing one of the other people assembled?"
I was standing on the corner of the street where an abortion clinic is "peaceably assembling" (NOT protesting). Two GPOs came up and were harassing one of the other people assembled. I walked up with phone out recording, when they notice I was open carrying (Smith & Wesson M&P .40).
How were the two GPOs "harrasing one of the other people assembled?"
Be specific, please.
They came and told them they needed to move from where they were. The police have been out there before and we have checked the property line, so we know where we can stand.
Once they saw that we knew where we could and could not be and would assert our right to stand where we wanted, it turned into classic "I'm a police officer you BETTER do what I say regardless of the lawfulness of the order" intimidation tactics.
Statements like: "If you don't move up there I will physically move you up there" etc.
I was standing on the corner of the street where an abortion clinic is "peaceably assembling" (NOT protesting). Two GPOs came up and were harassing one of the other people assembled. I walked up with phone out recording, when they notice I was open carrying (Smith & Wesson M&P .40).
How were the two GPOs "harrasing one of the other people assembled?"
Be specific, please.
They came and told them they needed to move from where they were. The police have been out there before and we have checked the property line, so we know where we can stand.
Once they saw that we knew where we could and could not be and would assert our right to stand where we wanted, it turned into classic "I'm a police officer you BETTER do what I say regardless of the lawfulness of the order" intimidation tactics.
Statements like: "If you don't move up there I will physically move you up there" etc.
Did you know these details before you walked up (OCing) to the officer/citizens confrontation that was filmed?
I was standing on the corner of the street where an abortion clinic is "peaceably assembling" (NOT protesting). Two GPOs came up and were harassing one of the other people assembled. I walked up with phone out recording, when they notice I was open carrying (Smith & Wesson M&P .40).
How were the two GPOs "harrasing one of the other people assembled?"
Be specific, please.
They came and told them they needed to move from where they were. The police have been out there before and we have checked the property line, so we know where we can stand.
Once they saw that we knew where we could and could not be and would assert our right to stand where we wanted, it turned into classic "I'm a police officer you BETTER do what I say regardless of the lawfulness of the order" intimidation tactics.
Statements like: "If you don't move up there I will physically move you up there" etc.
Did you know these details before you walked up (OCing) to the officer/citizens confrontation that was filmed?
No. Are you trying to imply that I needed to know the situation before I recorded it? Where are you going with this line of questioning? If you are trying to make a statement, feel free to do so...
Bravo! That guy turned right around on his heel when he realized several important things that saved your ass from him making up his own story later.
-You at least appeared to know the laws relating to your conduct
-There were several people standing within earshot that clearly would have witnessed on your behalf
-It was being recorded to boot
If you had been alone with no recording I can almost guarantee you he would have cuffed you and made up whatever story he wanted later
Smith45acp wrote: Bravo! That guy turned right around on his heel when he realized several important things that saved your ass from him making up his own story later.
-You at least appeared to know the laws relating to your conduct
-There were several people standing within earshot that clearly would have witnessed on your behalf
-It was being recorded to boot
If you had been alone with no recording I can almost guarantee you he would have cuffed you and made up whatever story he wanted later No doubt. That's why I ALWAYS keep my phone handy to record up to a server. I got a lil nervous afterward because I saw my battery was low and I thought I might need it when backup came, but when they showed up it was anti-climatic.
Note: they were digging through a book of statutes to try to find something to use on me. Pretty amusing.
I was standing on the corner of the street where an abortion clinic is "peaceably assembling" (NOT protesting). Two GPOs came up and were harassing one of the other people assembled. I walked up with phone out recording, when they notice I was open carrying (Smith & Wesson M&P .40).
How were the two GPOs "harrasing one of the other people assembled?"
Be specific, please.
They came and told them they needed to move from where they were. The police have been out there before and we have checked the property line, so we know where we can stand.
Once they saw that we knew where we could and could not be and would assert our right to stand where we wanted, it turned into classic "I'm a police officer you BETTER do what I say regardless of the lawfulness of the order" intimidation tactics.
Statements like: "If you don't move up there I will physically move you up there" etc.
Did you know these details before you walked up (OCing) to the officer/citizens confrontation that was filmed?
No. Are you trying to imply that I needed to know the situation before I recorded it? Where are you going with this line of questioning? If you are trying to make a statement, feel free to do so...
So if you didn't know the details before you walked up, how could you know that those guys were getting "harrassed?" If you didn't know they were being "harassed," what was your rationale for walking over there (OCing) to become part of the LEO/citizens interaction?
Also, were you part of the group that was "peaceably assembling?" Did you know those guys? Talk to them before you started filming?
I'm curious.
Last edited on Sun Oct 18th, 2009 12:28 am by HankT
What I find most interesting is that with all the agitation that he approaches you with he ultimately turned his back on you! Must not have been much of a threat.
And FWIW, I figure that you are aware of this one and that it seems to be geared towards Abortion clinics as a "private healthcare facility". And they use the word demonstration, not protest. Watch yourself out there.
14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.
I was standing on the corner of the street where an abortion clinic is "peaceably assembling" (NOT protesting). Two GPOs came up and were harassing one of the other people assembled. I walked up with phone out recording, when they notice I was open carrying (Smith & Wesson M&P .40).
I found out that after I left (I left maybe 45 mins AFTER this video) a detective came looking for me. Next weekend should be interesting.
If you weren't part of the crowd that was "peaceably assembling" I'd say you had no business sticking your nose in whatever was going on.
If you were part part of the crowd that was "peaceably assembling" I'd question your judgment. Anti-abortion rallies can get steamy and with that doc getting shot in Kansas that would be last place I would OC.
If I were a LEO, and I was interacting with two people, and some third part started getting up in my space with a pistol, I'd be pretty pissed off too.
I was standing on the corner of the street where an abortion clinic is "peaceably assembling" (NOT protesting). Two GPOs came up and were harassing one of the other people assembled. I walked up with phone out recording, when they notice I was open carrying (Smith & Wesson M&P .40).
How were the two GPOs "harrasing one of the other people assembled?"
Be specific, please.
They came and told them they needed to move from where they were. The police have been out there before and we have checked the property line, so we know where we can stand.
Once they saw that we knew where we could and could not be and would assert our right to stand where we wanted, it turned into classic "I'm a police officer you BETTER do what I say regardless of the lawfulness of the order" intimidation tactics.
Statements like: "If you don't move up there I will physically move you up there" etc.
Did you know these details before you walked up (OCing) to the officer/citizens confrontation that was filmed?
No. Are you trying to imply that I needed to know the situation before I recorded it? Where are you going with this line of questioning? If you are trying to make a statement, feel free to do so...
So if you didn't know the details before you walked up, how could you know that those guys were getting "harrassed?" If you didn't know they were being "harassed," what was your rationale for walking over there (OCing) to become part of the LEO/citizens interaction?
Also, were you part of the group that was "peaceably assembling?" Did you know those guys? Talk to them before you started filming?
I'm curious.
I didn't "know" they were getting harassed when I first walked up but deductive reasoning told me it was very likely they were because I watched them from far off for about 10-15 min. before I approached.
I put "Harassed" in the title because after the fact I "KNEW" that they had been harassed.
Yes I was peaceably assembling there and I knew those people.
chiefjason wrote: What I find most interesting is that with all the agitation that he approaches you with he ultimately turned his back on you! Must not have been much of a threat.
And FWIW, I figure that you are aware of this one and that it seems to be geared towards Abortion clinics as a "private healthcare facility". And they use the word demonstration, not protest. Watch yourself out there.
14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.Yeah, I knew about this but thanks for posting. Again we were NOT on their property and we were merely assembling.
BTW thanks for pointing out that he turned his back so he knew I posed no threat. If I were a threat or was breaking the law I'd have been shot, tassed, pepper sprayed or arrested (I guess that's the descending order of the likely outcomes).
Last edited on Sun Oct 18th, 2009 07:55 am by jp49911
kwikrnu wrote: What was up with the cop going for his gun at about 15 seconds into the recording?Yeah I DEFINITELY noticed that but surprisingly it didn't rattle me at all (my have been different if he drew???).
JD wrote: If you were part of the crowd that was "peaceably assembling" I'd question your judgement. Anti-abortion rallies can get steamy and with that doc getting shot in Kansas that would be the last place I would OC.
You may question my judgment; I have no problem with that. If you feel anti-abortion rallies can get steamy, then wouldn't that be more reason to be able to protect yourself (although this was not a rally)? Friends of mine there have had rocks thrown at them for standing near abortion clinics so you are right; there is a threat of violence (as there is a potential threat everywhere you go).
Why would a doc in Kansas change what I do in Greensboro? I wasn't there to shoot anybody. I wasn't OC'ing to make any kind of statement. OC'ing is a part of my lifestyle. I OC on a daily basis.
JD wrote: If I were LEO, and I was interacting with two people, and some third part started getting up in my space with a pistol, Id be pretty pissed too.
JD you continue to make a faulty assessment of my judgment and the situation. At what point in the video did I get "up in his space"? If you were LEO "interacting" with two people in a legal and reasonable manner shouldn't you WANT a record of the situation? Why would you feel threatened? Maybe because you would know that you are legally and morally WRONG?
It's obvious he was pissed with me before he EVER saw my weapon. The second he saw me walking up IMMEDIATELY "you're trespassing too!" . I was trespassing???LOL !
He was pissed because how dare I observe the police doing their job from a reasonable distance and even further record him and not submit to everything they want me to do?
His anger was escalated because "Hey! What the hell are you doing? No one is supposed to be armed to defend themselves but us; the boys in blue. You see this uniform? YOU SEE THIS UNIFORM? We don't enforce the law, we ARE the law. Now put your hands on the hood before I tase you"
Obviously you feel his escalated pissedness was warranted and you share his train of thought. Just do me a favor and sit on the other side of the FEMA camp when this police state fully manifests.
BTW, JK about the FEMA camps. I have no intention of being in there with you
Last edited on Sun Oct 18th, 2009 12:48 pm by jp49911
You were just milling around, "peaceably assembling" with some friends outside a clinic that provides abortion services, but you weren't "protesting or demonstrating?
So why were you there?
To mow their grass? To sing "Koombaya"? Perhaps you were there to get some sort of perfectly legal ObGyn medical treatment? Or maybe you were waiting to be "safe passage escorts" for the staff and clients, and were OCing, so it would deter any potential nutjob from attacking them?
OK, maybe I can understand why you might be carrying. There are some CRAZY people who hang around those sorts of medical facilities, just waiting to attack, main, injure, and even kill the staff and their clients in the name of "morals" and "the right to life"...
Oh, I get it, you don't like the fact that there is a law you disagree with, and sometimes people avail themselves of an activity that you disagree with, and so you feel that by haning out around this facility, you can somehow impress upon these people that what they are doing is wrong, and through your rhetoric you can impress upon the community that this activity, which you disagree with but is perfectly legal, is somehow not acceptable?
You mean you don't agree that people who are engaged in a legal activity should be left alone, and not harassed, intimidated, or otherwise made to feel threatened? Hmmmm...
Think about that the next time a cop someone gets up in your face because he knows what you're doing is legal, but he doesn't like it.
You may want to review the EXACT wording of the NC Statute:
14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.
You will notice in the bolded passage (emphasis added) that it does NOT say it is unlawful to carry on the property of such a facility. It states it is illegal to carry while demonstrating upon such a facility. That word "upon" is where it gets tricky, and where you run afoul of the law if you were, in fact, part of this "peaceable assembly". In this statute, the word "upon" is not designating a temporal location, but rather it is a to designate the party against which you are demonstrating. You could be in Charlotte demonstrating against an "abortion clinic" located in Fayetteville, and if you were carrying, according to this statute, you would be guilty of a Class 1 Misdemeanor...
You also need to check your understanding of the word "demonstrating". This is not limited to a large group of people carrying signs and shouting slogans. According to Mirriam-Webster's dictionary:
Main Entry: dem·on·strate
Pronunciation: ˈde-mən-ˌstrātFunction:
verb Inflected Form(s): dem·on·strat·ed; dem·on·strat·ing
Etymology: Latin demonstratus, past participle of demonstrare, from de- + monstrare to show — more at muster
Date: 1548
transitive verb
1: to show clearly
I think a large group of people wearing t-shirts and hats with anti-abortion designs on them is showing pretty clearly where you stand and why you are milling about outside such a facility.
Now, IANAL, but I DO understand how the language works. If you think my interpretation is incorrect, I STRONGLY advice you seek professional legal counsel, or contact the NC AG for an "official" interpretation...
Good luck with your "peaceable assemblies". But if you're going to carry at them, you're just BEGGING for legal trouble from about 12 different directions, and the LEAST of your worries is going to be an LEO.
The "gray area" in this situation, is your intention for your "peaceable assembly". If you are there with the intention to make it know that you don't agree with someting that is going on in that facility, then whether you have signs or not, whether you are shouting or chanting or not, if you are congregating there with the INTENT of showing your disapproval, then you are "demonstrating".
Check yourself before you wreck yourself, bro...
Last edited on Sun Oct 18th, 2009 09:16 am by Dreamer
You were just milling around, "peaceably assembling" with some friends outside a clinic that provides abortion services, but you weren't "protesting or demonstrating?
So why were you there?
To mow their grass? To sing "Koombaya"? Perhaps you were there to get some sort of perfectly legal ObGyn medical treatment? Or maybe you were waiting to be "safe passage escorts" for the staff and clients, and were OCing, so it would deter any potential nutjob from attacking them?
OK, maybe I can understand why you might be carrying. There are some CRAZY people who hang around those sorts of medical facilities, just waiting to attack, main, injure, and even kill the staff and their clients in the name of "morals" and "the right to life"...
Oh, I get it, you don't like the fact that there is a law you disagree with, and sometimes people avail themselves of an activity that you disagree with, and so you feel that by haning out around this facility, you can somehow impress upon these people that what they are doing is wrong, and through your rhetoric you can impress upon the community that this activity, which you disagree with but is perfectly legal, is somehow not acceptable?
You mean you don't agree that people who are engaged in a legal activity should be left alone, and not harassed, intimidated, or otherwise made to feel threatened? Hmmmm...
Think about that the next time a cop someone gets up in your face because he knows what you're doing is legal, but he doesn't like it.
You may want to review the EXACT wording of the NC Statute:
14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited.
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.
You will notice in the bolded passage (emphasis added) that it does NOT say it is unlawful to carry on the property of such a facility. It states it is illegal to carry while demonstrating upon such a facility. That word "upon" is where it gets tricky, and where you run afoul of the law if you were, in fact, part of this "peaceable assembly". In this statute, the word "upon" is not designating a temporal location, but rather it is a to designate the party against which you are demonstrating. You could be in Charlotte demonstrating against an "abortion clinic" located in Fayetteville, and if you were carrying, according to this statute, you would be guilty of a Class 1 Misdemeanor...
Now, IANAL, but I DO understand how the language works. If you think my interpretation is incorrect, I STRONGLY advice you seek professional legal counsel, or contact the NC AG for an "official" interpretation...
Good luck with your "peaceable assemblies. But if you're going to carry at them, you're just BEGGING for legal trouble from about 12 different directions, and the LEAST of your worries is going to be an LEO.
Check yourself before you wreck yourself, bro... I don't have the time nor the desire to break down all of the foolishness in your post but I'm not there to intimidate or threaten anyone. Again, this is part of my lifestyle. I carry at the store, when I go walking, when I grocery shop etc.
Are you implying that because something is legal it is right and because something is illegal it is wrong? Sounds that way and that doesn't dignify much of a response.
I'm also not there because I disagree with a law. The law makes no difference to me I disagree with the act and our presence has saved babies. I notice you put "right to life" in quotes as if there is no such right. If you think that, you're pathetic.
Feel free to bash away as much as you'd like the rest of the time on this thread. I won't be responding to any of your posts if they are focused on the right to life vs gun related issues. You can send me a pm if you want to dialogue about what you obviously must deem a "moral" choice.
At what point in the video did I get "up in his space"? If you were LEO "interacting" with two people in a legal and reasonable manner shouldn't you WANT a record of the situation? Why would you feel threatened? Maybe because you would know that you are legally and morally WRONG?
. I was trespassing???LOL 
!
