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NCjones
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 03:42 am |
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All in all, the guy was just abrasive and uncooperative. Like I said originally, if he'd just gave the cop his DL or gave him his name and DOB, the cop would've probably ran a background check and seen he wasn't a badguy and then been on his way.
Last edited on Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:53 am by NCjones
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proud_to_serveUSAF
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 03:42 am |
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NCjones wrote: Had I rolled up on a guy "assembling" (passively protesting) at an abortion clinic with a piece, he'd be picking the sand out from between his teeth.
NCjones... I know you think you're all hardcore and stuff, like your brother Indiana...
but 1. he's a legend. don't try. you'll never succeed.
2. mentalities like that are exactly why cops get sued for stupid crap. for some reason out of all of my training i was never taught to take on a MWAG with my hands and make him eat dirt either. thats why cops have guns.
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glock30
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 02:12 pm |
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NCjones wrote: Well, let me ammend that. If he was acting like the guy in the video...
It seems to me that the guy in the video was just provoking the cop. The cop was getting in his car, leaving, and the clown was following along behind him asking "Am I being detained, Am I being detained, Am I being detained, ..." Talk about ASKING for trouble.
I agree the guy had a right to OC, had a right to not have ID on his person (althought it is a good idea when packing) and the cop was generally ignorant. For instance, when the guy asked if he was required to have an ID the cop responded, "In North Carolina you are...when your carrying a gun." Rather than continue to haggle at the cop I would have called for a supervisor to arrive and asked the cop to provide me the statute that requires ID to be carried when OC'ing.
"Let me see your permit for that", what a goober. A polite "I don't have one." would've been the thing to say rather than "what permit, what permit, what permit, ..." Nothing pisses off a cop more than someone trying to tell him what the law is, (even if you are right). As soon as the cop arrested him for OC'ing without a permit he'd been the laughing stock of the PD, and a big apology would have followed.
All in all, the guy was just abrasive and uncooperative. Like I said originally, if he'd just gave the cop his DL or gave him his name and DOB, the cop would've probably ran a background check and seen he wasn't a badguy and then been on his way.
1. "Am I being detained, Am I being detained, Am I being detained, ..."
Go back and listen again. the cop said "wait right here" so he was asking am I being detained.
2. "Let me see your permit for that"
Asking what permit was a legitimate question. Permit to Breath? Permit to walk around the city? A cop should know if something requires a permit. Why should I cut him any slack. Ask a stupid question...
3. "Like I said originally, if he'd just gave the cop his DL or gave him his name and DOB"
Nope sorry. I comply only as much as needed. I don't give up my liberties so easily.
NCjones, Your comments come off as a mall cop.
Last edited on Mon Oct 26th, 2009 02:13 pm by glock30
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NCjones
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 10:23 pm |
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"NCjones, Your comments come off as a mall cop."
I don't consider being courteous a violation of any of my rights. People like you and the fool in the video are why OC'ers get such a rash of bullshlt from business owners and cops. Last edited on Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:54 am by NCjones
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muccione
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 11:32 pm |
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NCjones wrote: "NCjones, Your comments come off as a mall cop."
Well sorry. I was a cop in Houston for years. Those who know the Wayside Ave, Harrisburg Ave area know thats no picnic area. Most cops in NC (except maybe Durham) have a candy job and wouldn't last a weekend in Southwest Houston. There's just no reason for a law abidding citizen to act like a dlckhead when the cops are simply doing their job. Anytime a person is protesting at a clinic and has a gun it is something to be investigated to be sure they are not another wierdo. Call it "peaceful assembling" what you will, the idiot was present at a protest.
Your comments come off as one of those evening news stories about some whinning local redneck screaming that his rights got violated <insert tobacco juice spit here> because an over-worked, underpaid cop simply asked for an ID.
I hope when I'm OC'ing other people don't put me in the same category as you and abortion clinic azzhole. When I carry, I am polite and law-abidding, and if a cop wants to see my ID, that's fine. When I am CC'ing and a cop wants to see my ID, that is fine also.
I don't consider being courteous a violation of any of my rights. People like you and the fool in the video are why OC'ers get such a rash of bullshlt from business owners and cops. You got all the rights in the world and be-damned if anyone should even think about violating them. I bet you even have a "They can take my gun when they pry my cold dead fingers off it" bumper sticker on your pickup truck.
Your fine post has even motivated me to write the PD and Attorney General and inquire why they allow unidentified people to protest at a medical facility with guns.
I knew you were a cop....Even here you try to show that its OK for a cop to violate our civil rights...."Do as I tell you because I am the LAW"
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin
"most NC cops have a candy job" You should say ALL cops have a candy job until a citizen stands up to protect there rights....
As citizens of the United States of America, we must understand that we are the rulers of our own lives and each of us holds sovereign rights over our bodies and liberties.
We must also understand that when police officers or government officials break the law they no longer hold any authority what so ever. In the instant they act outside the law and under color of authority or jurisdiction we have a right and duty to resist.
All law enforcement and government officials should be made of aware of these facts. Maybe that will raise some eyebrows instead of billy clubs and tasers.
Go back to Office.com and whine with your crooked brothers............We are here protect our rights ...not give them up....
Last edited on Mon Oct 26th, 2009 11:57 pm by muccione
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muccione
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 11:38 pm |
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"Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.”
Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated:
“Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”
“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.”
Housh v. People, 75 111. 491;
reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.
“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.
“These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.
“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).
“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).
“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).
“Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In his own writings, he had admitted that ‘a situation could arise in which the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.’
There would be no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded, ‘If there be any remedy at all ... it is a remedy never provided for by human institutions.’ That was the ‘ultimate right of all human beings in extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous injustice.’” (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court.
As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 11:55 pm |
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muccione wrote: I knew you were a cop.....
Go back to Office.com and whine with your crooked brothers............We are here protect our rights ...not give them up....
I think you forgot one (or more) of these----> 
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glock30
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:55 am |
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NCjones wrote: "NCjones, Your comments come off as a mall cop."
Well sorry. I was a cop in Houston for years. Those who know the Wayside Ave, Harrisburg Ave area know thats no picnic area. Most cops in NC (except maybe Durham) have a candy job and wouldn't last a weekend in Southwest Houston. There's just no reason for a law abidding citizen to act like a dlckhead when the cops are simply doing their job. Anytime a person is protesting at a clinic and has a gun it is something to be investigated to be sure they are not another wierdo. Call it "peaceful assembling" what you will, the idiot was present at a protest.
Your comments come off as one of those evening news stories about some whinning local redneck screaming that his rights got violated <insert tobacco juice spit here> because an over-worked, underpaid cop simply asked for an ID.
I hope when I'm OC'ing other people don't put me in the same category as you and abortion clinic azzhole. When I carry, I am polite and law-abidding, and if a cop wants to see my ID, that's fine. When I am CC'ing and a cop wants to see my ID, that is fine also.
I don't consider being courteous a violation of any of my rights. People like you and the fool in the video are why OC'ers get such a rash of bullshlt from business owners and cops. You got all the rights in the world and be-damned if anyone should even think about violating them. I bet you even have a "They can take my gun when they pry my cold dead fingers off it" bumper sticker on your pickup truck.
Your fine post has even motivated me to write the PD and Attorney General and inquire why they allow unidentified people to protest at a medical facility with guns.
I was really hoping you were a mall cop, hearing that you were the real deal is frighting. I wish you well in your world where proper papers are required to travel from state to state.
be-damned if anyone should even think about violating them.
Damn Straight. If that makes me a tobacco spitting redneck then so be it. Better that than roll over and hand over my civil rights.
Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:59 am by glock30
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muccione
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 01:10 am |
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Cops do not believe in civil rights .... Only the ones they give you.....
Carry on
Paul Blart..(a.k.a)NC Jones....
Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2009 01:11 am by muccione
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kwikrnu
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 01:20 am |
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NCjones wrote: "NCjones, Your comments come off as a mall cop."
Well sorry. I was a cop in Houston for years. Your fine post has even motivated me to write the PD and Attorney General and inquire why they allow unidentified people to protest at a medical facility with guns.
What medical facility? They were on private property which was not part of any medical facility.
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Dreamer
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 01:26 am |
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Again, I will repeat the North Carolina Statute:
§14-415.11(c)
4. Events Occurring In Public Places
North Carolina law further makes it unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any public place, owned or under the control of the State of North Carolina, or any of its political subdivisions, to willfully or intentionally possess, or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon.
JP49911, you were in violation fo the law. Admit it.
Not the spirt of the law. not some vague interpretation of the law. The LETTER of the LAW. You were in direct, irrefutable violation of Statute 14-415.11(c).
The fact that you were acting like a puppy on meth, practically jumping up and down and squeaking at this cop only ads to your transgressions.
The fact that the cop wasn't knowledgeable enough to know which statute you had violated does not make what you did right. You broke the law. Plain and simple.
Stop hiding behind your dogmatic "principles" and admit it. Stop trying to justify your actions by playing with words, and hiding behind your religious and moral beliefs. Stop hiding behind circumstances. Stop hiing behind the fact that this cop was a thug, and unknowledgeable about the law.
I triple-dog-dare you or anyone else to show me a statute, law, or regulation that proves my assertions wrong, and justifies (or even allows under NC law) what you did.
You broke the law. It's that simple, and the law is VERY clear on this.
Admit it.
Or prove me wrong.
The gauntlet has been thrown.
Put up or shut up...
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jp49911
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 01:53 am |
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Dreamer wrote: Again, I will repeat the North Carolina Statute:§14-415.11(c)
4. Events Occurring In Public Places
North Carolina law further makes it unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any public place, owned or under the control of the State of North Carolina, or any of its political subdivisions, to willfully or intentionally possess, or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon.
JP49911, you were in violation fo the law. Admit it.
Not the spirt of the law. not some vague interpretation of the law. The LETTER of the LAW. You were in direct, irrefutable violation of Statute 14-415.11(c).
The fact that you were acting like a puppy on meth, practically jumping up and down and squeaking at this cop only ads to your transgressions.
The fact that the cop wasn't knowledgeable enough to know which statute you had violated does not make what you did right. You broke the law. Plain and simple.
Stop hiding behind your dogmatic "principles" and admit it. Stop trying to justify your actions by playing with words, and hiding behind your religious and moral beliefs. Stop hiding behind circumstances. Stop hiing behind the fact that this cop was a thug, and unknowledgeable about the law.
I triple-dog-dare you or anyone else to show me a statute, law, or regulation that proves my assertions wrong, and justifies (or even allows under NC law) what you did.
You broke the law. It's that simple, and the law is VERY clear on this.
Admit it.
Or prove me wrong.
The gauntlet has been thrown.
Put up or shut up...
For one, 14-415.11 (c) does not say that.
It says:
A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in the areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, and 14‑277.2, in an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1, in any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law, in a law enforcement or correctional facility, in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, a financial institution, or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises. It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in his blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts.
You must be referring to 14-277.2 which says:
It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon.
Notice the bold part?
Here...just in case you missed it:
"...upon any private health care facility or upon any public place..."
One more time to make sure it gets through your thick skull:
"..upon any private health care facility or upon any public place..."
That had to be the WEAKEST gauntlet ever! And you even triple-dog dared me lol (what's this A Christmas Story or something?).
Who's "unknowledgeable" now?
I can't even believe you wrote "unknowledgeable" 
Go back to sleep...Dreamer
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JDriver1.8t
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 02:07 am |
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I believe this is the part that is being missed:
owned or under the control of the State of North Carolina
The abortion clinic is neither, so it does not meet the criteria.
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NCjones
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 03:18 am |
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| Post deleted by user. Last edited on Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:56 am by NCjones
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NCjones
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 03:30 am |
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| Post deleted by user. Last edited on Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:56 am by NCjones
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jp49911
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 03:42 am |
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NCjones wrote: upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State
I think you are mistaken. I'm not sure your education level, but you totally ignore the OR in your interpretation.
1) upon any healthcare facility OR
2) upon any public place owned or under the control of the state...
We have to determine that your abortion clinic is a "healthcare facility" since they use the term to describe themselves in their title and description: Piedmont Carolina Medical Clinic , Piedmont Carolina Medical Clinic is committed to providing the highest standards of health care in an environment that respects the dignity, needs, and privacy of all its patients.
Bachelorette Degree...
Which one applies to me NCjones?
1)upon any healthcare facility OR
2) upon any public place owned or under the control of the state...
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glock30
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 04:09 am |
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NCjones wrote: Hate to say it, but this is a good case where a tazer comes in handy. The first "rescuer" that interferred with my arrest would be doing the funky chicken on the ground with 100,000 volts going thru him, arrested for obstruction, and your gun taken and not returned. That sweet HK you paid a grand for would be on the police property destroy list.
I have a feeling this is why you are a FORMER cop.
I'd love for you to taser me under these circumstances. I would OWN you. Your grandchildren would be paying off your debt.
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NCjones
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 05:07 am |
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| Nothing about being courteous to a police officer who is just doing his job and investigating a man with a gun makes a person a cop any more than eating a biscuit makes a person a baker. Last edited on Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:58 am by NCjones
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KyleKatern
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 05:08 am |
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| that, and if I, not breaking any law, had a cop pull a taser on me? the law in NC says that I can resist that illegal assault.
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JDriver1.8t
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 05:45 am |
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going on proper sentence structure and the english language, the health car facility is linked with under the control of the state in the statute. I'm sure that isn't what was meant, but it is, in fact, what is written.
I do beleive the whole situation was retarded, and the OCer should have left the LEO alone from the get go.
Since it was referenced, most likely with malicious intent, I am 1 (pointless) class from a Masters Degree, though I have two undergrads as well, though I don't really see the relevance.
Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2009 05:49 am by JDriver1.8t
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