| Author | Post |
|---|
BB62
State Researcher
|
Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 10:10 pm |
|
Brian D. wrote: Guess we need an open carry walk in Lima like the one we at OFCC did in Northwood Ohio last year. Large numbers of toters and publicity are the only thing, short of successful criminal prosecution* against such a community, that will make them stop this harassment, in my opinion anyhow.
*Civil prosecution sounds like a workable alternative, but cities just make a payoff with their constituents' money, up the taxes in some fashion to recover the loss, and go forward as if nothing ever happened, or at least that's how it usually seems to be.
I'm always up for a walk, but I'm not sure how effective it would be in this instance.
I think what we need is for Ohio's gun organizations to decide that criminal and/or civil suits are going to follow the next bogus DC or IP citation - rather than simply settling for dismissal of the charges.
|
zack991
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jul 29th, 2009 |
| Location: | Warren, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 319 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 12:24 am |
|
BB62 wrote: gutshot wrote: ...Two other things:...
2. Your mother could have benefited tremendously from the care you could have provided for her with the money you would have won in a law suit if you had not been so selfish and taken the easy way out.
You sicken me. Agreed, all this would do was make it worst for other citizens who rely on the police. I totally agree what happened was horrible, but there are better ways to get policy's changed then hitting their pocket books. If we have no other way of getting things changed then, YES hit them hard in the pocket book. When they have to pay all that money out, they have to fire police and other employs to make up for the loss of income. In turn other cops who may believe like we do or had nothing to do with the arrest now have to find other work of no fault of their own. It may be the fastest way for policy change, but it is the worst way to keep a city safe in a time were they barley have money to pay for police and other necessary jobs.
Last edited on Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 12:30 am by zack991
|
w8new
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 12:41 am |
|
Agreed, all this would do was make it worst for other citizens who rely on the police. I totally agree what happened was horrible, but there are better ways to get policy's changed then hitting their pocket books. If we have no other way of getting things changed then, YES hit them hard in the pocket book. When they have to pay all that money out, they have to fire police and other employs to make up for the loss of income. In turn other cops who may believe like we do or had nothing to do with the arrest now have to find other work of no fault of their own. It may be the fastest way for policy change, but it is the worst way to keep a city safe in a time were they barley have money to pay for police and other necessary jobs.
I did in fact consider this angle and mentioned it to a few of those who helped out. But it did not figure in the decision to accept the offer of dismissing the case.
|
Jared
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 01:18 am |
|
| Ummmm.... It is illegal to drop charges as long as you promise not to sue. That's not legal and it is a violation of your civil rights, all that aside the agreement didn't say that you can't sue the cops on a personal level. If you don't have the means to sue, have OFCC set up a donation fund. I'll donate. if you are not willing to do that then they will not have learned their lesson. I guess ignorance of the law is ok if you are a cop.
|
jmelvin
Founder's Club Member
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 02:52 am |
|
If Jared is right (and I think he is) then go after the officers individually. I'll pony up and put my money where my mouth is provided there's a fund set up for this to help out. Had I been aware of a fund for your defense I'd have donated to it prior to the dismissal of charges.
This crap has got to end even if it means that some cop who thinks he's above the law finds himself scraping up funds like a pauper to support himself and family for the rest of his life while he pays off a civil judgement to a citizen he's wronged.
|
Bustelo5%
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | Kent, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 474 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 05:38 am |
|
I wonder if the employees of Hi point are allowed to carry for work purposes then you guys to start a march in Lima since im pretty sure thats where their company is located.
Theres Power in Numbers
Could prove really positive.
|
w8new
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 05:50 am |
|
I wonder if the employees of Hi point are allowed to carry for work purposes then you guys to start a march in Lima since im pretty sure thats where their company is located.
Factory service/repair for the Hi-Point .45 cal is in Lima but not the rest of their operations as far as I know. I own a Hi-Point C9 9mm.
|
w8new
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 08:48 am |
|
I had to get up to check on things and can't get back to sleep so here I am.....
gutshot wrote:
This is exactly correct. Two other things: 1. Your daughter will never look at you or think about you the same as before. 2. Your mother could have benefited tremendously from the care you could have provided for her with the money you would have won in a law suit if you had not been so selfish and taken the easy way out. 1. You are absolutely correct. Now she tries to not let me out of her sight for more than a very short time, she wasn't like that before this incident. Also she has proven that she is afraid of police officers and has demonstrated it 2 times that I know of. She always liked the police before this. It seems, after talking about it with her, that she will get over her newly acquired fear of the police in a short period of time.
2. Not really since I am providing about 80% of the care with my wife filling in for the other 20% of the care. Hospice is not a viable option since the family still provides the actual care. Of course a good pay off would have let us pay someone to come in and stay with her while we go out and do whatever we wanted to do. That is also not a viable option since we know her and her needs better than anyone else could possibly know her and her needs.
In my opinion as well as a psychologist that I discussed this with (as a friend) a couple years ago, family values can and usually should override everything else and are often the best choice even though most people choose to ignore the family values in favor of their own perceived best interest.
My own best interest may have been best served by pursuing this case with the hope of a big payoff. I chose to honor my family values instead and devote my effort to taking care of a family member who needs it now.
|
Yooper
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 09:32 am |
|
2, 4, 5 A defender wrote: Legba wrote: OR bond for $2,000? What can that even mean? Being released on your own recognizance just means you sign a promise to return for all future hearings, etc - no valuable security/collateral/consideration involved. I'm missing something.
-ljp
yea, that slipped by me as i wondered, what is OR? so i just read somemore and forgot about it. what is OR? its not PR, personable recognisence. promise to appear, cause we trust you. where did the 2000$ come from, this poor guy, with no money, that buys a gun, takes his daughter to the slaughter. im conflicted, is this real?
The amount of a PR or OR bond is how much you will have to pay the court if you don't show up on your court date. This is in addition to any fines associated with a Failure to Appear charge.
By signing a PR/OR bond, you're essentially promising to pay whatever amount the bond is for if you fail to appear.
|
Legba
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1880 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 01:34 pm |
|
They don't do that here - you either qualify to get let out with a signed promise to return, or you have to put up security as well. If you fail to appear, they issue an arrest warrant (and you never get OR bond again), but it doesn't cost you any cash as such.
-ljp
|
Bustelo5%
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | Kent, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 474 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 05:54 pm |
|
Well it may be a really good idea to call up Hi Point and see if they would like to be involved since they have the power to make or break that area. I cannot imangine that Lima would have a large business economy.
I wonder if they would get involved then you could have every person who works for them out there that would be awesome.
Im sorry to hear this happened to you and your daughter.
|
Legba
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1880 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 06:51 pm |
|
I hate to tell you, but each of the Hi-Point models is made in a different facility in different towns, and they're all about the size of a 2-car garage. Strictly mom-and-pops stuff and not a big company. Not being dismissive - they have a successful business model - but they just don't have the "muscle" that, say, Smith & Wesson might. Lovely thought though.
-ljp
|
Bustelo5%
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | Kent, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 474 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 07:08 pm |
|
Ohh I really didnt know that, I was going to seriously call them up so I could get a tour of the facility thinking it was some awesomely huge place.
|
Liberty Sanders
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 25th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 35 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 07:31 pm |
|
"I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like a false arrest to me. If people were running, screaming. squealing tires to get away from you, I could see an induced panic."
Nope...if an OCer walks into a venue, public or private, and every single person there runs away screaming, the OCer has NOT induced panic under Ohio law. The elements of that section are specific, and merely carrying a firearm, absent some other anti-social behavior does not violate the law.
|
Gunslinger
Regular Member
|
Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 11:16 pm |
|
| I'm sorry you and your child had to go through this. The City Attorney quickly agreed to drop the charge, as it was a loser in court, and got you to sign away you rights to sue, as you would have won in court. Your rights were violated, you were subject to emotional and physical harm, your daughter was subject to emotional harm and you were put through public humiliation. You had a very strong case. That they will "train" the a-hole cops is further proof of how wrong the CA knew their actions were. You are not, however, precluded from filing in Federal Court for violation of your civil rights. I know you aren't in a position to, but that is a criminal matter, not a civil suit. And the cops can stick their badges up their asses, as they have zero immunity. Good luck to you and your family.
|
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
|
Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 12:14 am |
|
Gunslinger wrote: SNIP That they will "train" the a-hole cops is further proof of how wrong the CA knew their actions were.
Good point. I missed that one.
If the cops done right, why would they need any training?
|
BB62
State Researcher
|
Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:52 pm |
|
zack991 wrote: BB62 wrote: gutshot wrote: ...Two other things:...
2. Your mother could have benefited tremendously from the care you could have provided for her with the money you would have won in a law suit if you had not been so selfish and taken the easy way out.
You sicken me. Agreed, all this would do was make it worst for other citizens who rely on the police. I totally agree what happened was horrible, but there are better ways to get policy's changed then hitting their pocket books...
Just to clarify, I was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the OP's choice. What I was saying was that gutshot's "selfish" and "taken (taking) the easy way out" wording was sickening (and childish).
However, I believe the time is pretty much here for a large hit to the pocketbook of officers/cities who blithely ignore the AG, the law, and the constitution.Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:52 pm by BB62
|
Deanimator
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1139 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 04:02 pm |
|
BB62 wrote: Just to clarify, I was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the OP's choice. What I was saying was that gutshot's "selfish" and "taken (taking) the easy way out" wording was sickening (and childish).
However, I believe the time is pretty much here for a large hit to the pocketbook of officers/cities who blithely ignore the AG, the law, and the constitution.
I'm from Chicago, where police are almost NEVER punished criminally, even for violent crimes. When they are, it's a slap on the wrist.
The ONLY POSSIBLE way to address crimes and rights violations by police in Chicago is via the civil courts.
No doubt, this is also the case in other places, quite possibly Lima.
|
CV67PAT
Regular Member
|
Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 08:24 pm |
|
WHY IN THE WORLD DID YOU LET YOUR DAUGHTER GO WITH THE VERY PERSON THAT CAUSED YOU ALL OF THIS GRIEF???
DID YOU NOT HAVE ANY CONCERN FOR HER SAFETY???
THAT'S JUST PLAIN NUTS!!!
Furthermore, it is a federal crime for anyone acting under “color of law” willfully to deprive or conspire to deprive a person of a right protected by the Constitution or U.S. law.
Coercing you into that agreement with the threat of prosecution is probably another federal civil rights violation.
Those individual rouge cops should have been punished.
And, all it would have taken was filing a complaint with the FBI:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm
Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 08:49 pm by CV67PAT
|
BB62
State Researcher
|
Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 05:04 pm |
|
CV67PAT wrote: ...Those individual rouge cops should have been punished.
And, all it would have taken was filing a complaint with the FBI:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm
Gee, why didn't we think of that? Maybe you should become our out-of-state counsel, since you know so much! 
|
Current time is 11:34 am | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6 7   |
|
