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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 08:19 pm |
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See http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/sda%20application%20WEB.pdf
Information provided says that applicants must be US Citizens, but equal protection demands that permament resident aliens be treated no differently than US citizens - what gives?
Also, why do they demand SSN disclosure without providing the required Section 7(b) Federal Privacy Act warning? Has nobody called them on this?
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Jared
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 12:48 pm |
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Mike wrote: See http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/sda%20application%20WEB.pdf
Information provided says that applicants must be US Citizens, but equal protection demands that permament resident aliens be treated no differently than US citizens - what gives?
Also, why do they demand SSN disclosure without providing the required Section 7(b) Federal Privacy Act warning? Has nobody called them on this?
Mike, you can add New Mexico to this list as well, same as South Dakota, Nebraska, North Carolina, Arkansas, Kansas, Massachusettes, Washington, Oregon, Montana, Hawaii, and a few others.
I would argue that non-immigrants are also included in equal protection. They enjoy all the other rights in the bill of rights. Hell, SCOTUS even said in the Zavidas V. Davis case that even illegal aliens are subject to the consitution.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 06:14 pm |
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Jared wrote: Mike wrote: See http://www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/sda%20application%20WEB.pdf
Information provided says that applicants must be US Citizens, but equal protection demands that permament resident aliens be treated no differently than US citizens - what gives?
Also, why do they demand SSN disclosure without providing the required Section 7(b) Federal Privacy Act warning? Has nobody called them on this?
Mike, you can add New Mexico to this list as well, same as South Dakota, Nebraska, North Carolina, Arkansas, Kansas, Massachusettes, Washington, Oregon, Montana, Hawaii, and a few others.
I would argue that non-immigrants are also included in equal protection. They enjoy all the other rights in the bill of rights. Hell, SCOTUS even said in the Zavidas V. Davis case that even illegal aliens are subject to the consitution.
At least as to permament residents, i.e. those green card holders who are elegible to serve for 20 plus years in our military fighting our wars and live here forever, they could easily bring actions to quesh these statutes under equal protection - some folks should start drafting Complaints now - are there not som attorneys out there who want to earn some Section 1983/1988 fees?
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Jared
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 29th, 2008 12:52 am |
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Mike wrote: are there not som attorneys out there who want to earn some Section 1983/1988 fees?
We'll remember this when you graduate from Georgetown and become a lawyer 
While I would not include illegal aliens, I would include non-immigrant aliens. Why treat them any differently. Besides some places around the world are accomidating to us.
For example, it's not hard to buy a firearm in Switzerland, even as a non-immigrant.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Wed Oct 29th, 2008 05:22 pm |
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| Here is a good reference for those who want to start lawsuits in the offending states on equal protection violations against resident aliens re concealed handgun permits: Say v. Adams (enjoining Kentucky from denying concealed handgun permits based on resident alienage), available at http://www.ailf.org/lac/chdocs/Kentucky-Say-ctmemo.pdf.
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Doc Dodge
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 20th, 2009 |
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Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 04:38 am |
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Non-citizens receive the same rights and protection under the law as citizens.
A CCW permit is a priviledge, not a right.
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Jared
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 01:47 pm |
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| Equal protection applies to welfare as per Sanez v Roe. If it applies to welfare, then it applies to CCW. I've never seen a right to welfare mentioned in the constitution.
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freykatt
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| Joined: | Mon Feb 16th, 2009 |
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Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 02:08 pm |
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Well, according to the highest authority of all, carrying is a "right", doncha think. And yes, CCW is a privelage, but one that they have no right to issue, therefore, I , myself will not ask for a privelage, when I already have the right!! cuzzin dick
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Doc Dodge
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Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 03:09 pm |
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A Right is for citizens, non-citizens are either guests or illegals. Illegals forfiet their rights ,as they are criminals. Guest have limited rights, as they are not full citizens. Voting is a Right for citizens. Illegals and foriegn guests on visas cannot vote. Adjudicated criminals cannot vote or possess firearms.
CCW permits are a priviledge for citizens with no criminal background.
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Tumbleweeds
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 15th, 2008 |
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Posted: Sun Mar 1st, 2009 07:19 pm |
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Doc Dodge wrote:
A Right is for citizens, non-citizens are either guests or illegals. Illegals forfiet their rights ,as they are criminals. Guest have limited rights, as they are not full citizens. Voting is a Right for citizens. Illegals and foriegn guests on visas cannot vote. Adjudicated criminals cannot vote or possess firearms.
CCW permits are a priviledge for citizens with no criminal background.
Doc apperantly you have not read the 2nd Amendment. CCW is a civil right as is open carry of firearms. As a matter of fact I'm suropirsed that some lawyer hasn't gone after some of these CCW laws based on having to pay a fee to the state to aquire them. after all if it is illegal to have a poll tax or literacy test for voting then the fees and tests for CCW & open carry(in states where applicable) permits should be considered just as illegal.
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Doc Dodge
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 01:13 am |
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| J & f & T, Now grab this idea and wrap it around your brains. I totally support the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I took an oath and spent a big chunk of my adult life defending this nation and our Constitution. My handle of 'DOC' comes from my years as an Army Combat Medic. I am all for law-abiding U.S. citizens having the right to bear arms and for open or concealed carry. Hell, I took a bullet defending those rights. You're Welcome very damned much! I am not in favor of granting non-citizens or adjudicated persons the same rights as legal U.S. citizens.Aliens on visas, illegal aliens, and adjudicated ciminals are not full citizens and do not enjoy the full priviledges of citizens. Full rights and full priviledges are for full citizens, hence the incentive to achieve full citizenship. I believe a CCW holder should be able to open carry anywhere and if all states recognize each other marriage and drivers licences, they should all recognize each others' CCW permits. Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 02:33 am by Doc Dodge
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qpar
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Aug 15th, 2009 |
| Location: | Ok, Oklahoma USA |
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Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 12:05 am |
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sick um doc // i am w/ you 100% im 75 was in during the korea thing .. but there is no recocnizing that fact.we arent classed as vet's so i hear,,.
we have lost our way somewhere.. qpar
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gutshot
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Aug 16th, 2009 04:33 am |
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Doc Dodge wrote: J & f & T, Now grab this idea and wrap it around your brains. I totally support the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I took an oath and spent a big chunk of my adult life defending this nation and our Constitution. My handle of 'DOC' comes from my years as an Army Combat Medic. I am all for law-abiding U.S. citizens having the right to bear arms and for open or concealed carry. Hell, I took a bullet defending those rights. You're Welcome very damned much! I am not in favor of granting non-citizens or adjudicated persons the same rights as legal U.S. citizens.Aliens on visas, illegal aliens, and adjudicated ciminals are not full citizens and do not enjoy the full priviledges of citizens. Full rights and full priviledges are for full citizens, hence the incentive to achieve full citizenship. I believe a CCW holder should be able to open carry anywhere and if all states recognize each other marriage and drivers licences, they should all recognize each others' CCW permits.
Doc, I have the greatest respect for your service.
If only citizens have rights and non-citizens can become citizen by satisfying some government rule and passing a government test then the government become the grantor of rights and can grant them or restrict them at will. The right to self defence comes from God. Free men and women have them from birth.
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zigziggityzoo
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Mon Aug 17th, 2009 04:24 pm |
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gutshot wrote:
Doc Dodge wrote: J & f & T, Now grab this idea and wrap it around your brains. I totally support the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I took an oath and spent a big chunk of my adult life defending this nation and our Constitution. My handle of 'DOC' comes from my years as an Army Combat Medic. I am all for law-abiding U.S. citizens having the right to bear arms and for open or concealed carry. Hell, I took a bullet defending those rights. You're Welcome very damned much! I am not in favor of granting non-citizens or adjudicated persons the same rights as legal U.S. citizens.Aliens on visas, illegal aliens, and adjudicated ciminals are not full citizens and do not enjoy the full priviledges of citizens. Full rights and full priviledges are for full citizens, hence the incentive to achieve full citizenship. I believe a CCW holder should be able to open carry anywhere and if all states recognize each other marriage and drivers licences, they should all recognize each others' CCW permits.
Doc, I have the greatest respect for your service.
If only citizens have rights and non-citizens can become citizen by satisfying some government rule and passing a government test then the government become the grantor of rights and can grant them or restrict them at will. The right to self defence comes from God. Free men and women have them from birth.
+1000
The bill of rights simply states that these rights are self-evident, provided by God, and that they shall not be infringed. Your nationality does not nullify that these rights existed before our country did because they are God-given.
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