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Puddin99
Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 08:46 pm |
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The training for an Oregon permit is almost a joke. You can even take a NRA basic pistol class and that also qualifies as Oregon training. In a way it's kind of scary to think that with the training that Oregon requires passes almost anyone to receive a permit. If you really want your monies worth, when you inquire about the class, see if it actually covers Oregon's deadly force laws, rather than 'where you should point your weapon'. In my opinion, I would like to see a bit more training requirements and even possibly a live fire, but at a minimum to go over the laws on deadly force. Anyone can pull the trigger.
Ken
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pdxwarrior
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 02:12 am |
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I agree with the laws covering deadly force rules. My class instructor did not touch on this at all. I stopped him after class and asked him specifically about this and why he didn't cover it. His reasoning is that "You have to be considered an expert on the subject to discuss that". I don't know how true this is. I honestly believe it's more of a CYA manuver that anything else. If he doesn't cover it, you can't blame him.
As a result of this, I am planning on spending the money to take the Basic Handgun course at Oregon Firearms Academy. It is my understanding that they have roughly a three hour lecture and QA regarding deadly force and it's position in Oregon. In addition, the class is an all day event and includes firing drills.
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Eagleeye
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Eagle, Idaho USA |
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 08:38 pm |
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I Heard from my CWP Instructor (Former LEO) that in OR you can sometimes Call the County Sheriff of where you will be going and ask them If they will Recognize your Out-Of State CWP while you are in their county, and many will agree to it in writing.
Is this True or just a bunch of Wishful Thinking?
I have friends in OR and do not want to be disarmed when I go Visit them.
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grishnav
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 1st, 2008 |
| Location: | Gresham, Oregon USA |
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 08:50 pm |
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Eagleeye wrote: I Heard from my CWP Instructor (Former LEO) that in OR you can sometimes Call the County Sheriff of where you will be going and ask them If they will Recognize your Out-Of State CWP while you are in their county, and many will agree to it in writing.
Is this True or just a bunch of Wishful Thinking?
I have friends in OR and do not want to be disarmed when I go Visit them.
Oregon state law does not recognize anything except Oregon permits.
If a countery sheriff were to agree to it, it would merely be them choosing not to enforce the law. Doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't get picked off by a city cop or a stater...
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Eagleeye
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Eagle, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 260 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 10:51 pm |
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grishnav wrote: Eagleeye wrote: I Heard from my CWP Instructor (Former LEO) that in OR you can sometimes Call the County Sheriff of where you will be going and ask them If they will Recognize your Out-Of State CWP while you are in their county, and many will agree to it in writing.
Is this True or just a bunch of Wishful Thinking?
I have friends in OR and do not want to be disarmed when I go Visit them.
Oregon state law does not recognize anything except Oregon permits.
If a countery sheriff were to agree to it, it would merely be them choosing not to enforce the law. Doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't get picked off by a city cop or a stater...
Thanks For the Clairification.
Next up, check if my Training Course is up to OR Reqs, get a Non-Res Permit.
Just hope it dosn't take very long, was hoping to go to OR in a couple months...
I would OC, but I can't find any Info on Tillamook County Regs for OC, and I see a Unloaded Gun as little more than an Expensive Club...
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Puddin99
Member
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Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 11:30 pm |
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The training requirements aren't very hard.
166.291
(f) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the following:
(A) Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the State Department of Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency of another state if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(B) Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(C) Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by law enforcement, community college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or a law enforcement agency if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(D) Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, reserve law enforcement officers or any other law enforcement officers if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(E) Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a handgun through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
(F) Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, unless the license has been revoked; or
(G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;
http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html
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Eagleeye
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Eagle, Idaho USA |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 12:00 am |
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I should be good then, my Instructor was a NRA Certified Instructor and Former LEO.
Included Classroom Lecture, as well as Both Dry & Live Fire Drills.
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thebastidge
Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 11:58 am |
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You'll need written documentation of the course. You may be rejected if the documentation doesn't include a description of the course, unless the course was given by one of the vendors currently recognized by the County Sherriff where you apply.
You also need documentation from your state that you have not been involuntarily committed for a period greater than 2 weeks, and write a letter explaining the purpose behind your application (i.e. "Why do you want a concealed pistol license?")
Puddin99 "it's kind of scary to think that with the training that Oregon requires passes almost anyone to receive a permit."
Shouldn't need a permit in the first place, and no class that you can take in one day will ever be able to make you an expert, or even competent. That takes consistent training, over a period of time. Anything you can do in a day relies more upon your pre-exisiting common sense and aptitude than upon quality of instruction.
Anyway, the basics of safety are the rationale that course requirements are predicated upon. You can get the basic principles of safety in that time.
Learning to determine threat levels, and application of appropriate force is a matter for soul searching and contemplation: no one can tell you in a classroom exactly when, where, and how you should use your weapon to defend yourself, and any competent instructor will tell you exactly that: think about it, and learn the law, and when it comes right down to it, it will still be your responsibility. Even if you do everything within the letter of the law, you can still be wrong, you can still face an expensive and demoralizing court battle.
My instructor merely pointed us to some resources on lawful force and recommended further study, and said to be prepared that if we ever do have to shoot someone, that we will almost certainly be indicted.
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Puddin99
Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:48 pm |
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I agree with your statement that we shouldn't have to be 'qualified' to carry at all, but let's be reasonable. That comment comes from the years of experience around firearms and the time I have put forth in researching laws.
It's all up to the permit holder to know everything they can and ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of law enforcement. Can you honestly say that the average joe that attends these classes can actually prepare them to carry a deadly weapon for self defense? I have attended several classes that have qualified people to get their permit and to believe that some of the people will be on the street kind of scares me in a way.
I've started 'training' my kids at a young age to shoot guns and be responsible with weapons. I hope some day that they will want to show their rights by carrying a weapon for self defense. But for those people who just wake up one day with a notion in their head that they want carry a weapon for whatever reason, they need to be really educated and truly understand the ramifications of doing so.
I attend an OC event a few months back at a restaurant in Vancouver WA. We were kicked out because the manager (a Washington permit holder) didn't know the law. We were completely legal when sitting in a area where minors were permitted in an restaurant that served alcohol.
It all comes down to education and training. I'm all for that.
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thebastidge
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 03:28 pm |
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"Can you honestly say that the average joe that attends these classes can actually prepare them to carry a deadly weapon for self defense? "
I believe I made the point that nothing external actually prepares you to do that, it requires introspection and study. There is not a state-required class in existence that fully qualifies a person to to carry a deadly weapon for self-defense.
More difficult (meaningless) hoops to jump through still won't help, it just makes it less available to people who have other things competing for their time and money. We could require that people be able to stand on their heads, or juggle bowling pins- it just doesn't mean they will be more responsible about their gun ownership.
So if the state cannot do it, it should not attempt to do it, and simply leave it up to the responsibility of individuals. Basically I'm saying, that in regards to individual responsibility and the state mandating standards of character; "you can't get there from here".
75% of the cops out there don't fully understand the law or their lawful recourse to force. That doesn't mean the option should be denied to people.
Last edited on Wed Apr 30th, 2008 03:31 pm by thebastidge
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YellowHorse
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| Joined: | Mon May 19th, 2008 |
| Location: | POW In PSRK |
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 06:19 pm |
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I believe (if I'm wrong correct me, if I'm right maybe someone can elaborate more) Oregon has to issue a CCW to you if you apply under your business.
I've been looking into getting a CCW as well, since I visit family often in Oregon and we do own our own business here in Cali, I was hoping that could be an avenue we could pursue.
Last edited on Wed May 21st, 2008 06:20 pm by YellowHorse
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Puddin99
Member
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Posted: Wed May 21st, 2008 06:55 pm |
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YellowHorse wrote: I believe (if I'm wrong correct me, if I'm right maybe someone can elaborate more) Oregon has to issue a CCW to you if you apply under your business.
I've been looking into getting a CCW as well, since I visit family often in Oregon and we do own our own business here in Cali, I was hoping that could be an avenue we could pursue.
I don't think it has anything to do with your business at all. From what I understand, if you reside in a neighboring state and can provide a case - whether personal or business, that you travel in Oregon, one may be granted to you. But it is totally at the sheriff's discretion being that you are a non-resident.
ORS 166.291(8) which says "The county sheriff may waive the residency requirement in subsection (1)(c) of this section for a resident of a contiguous state who has a compelling business interest or other legitimate demonstrated need," the sheriff of each county has some discretion for a resident of a contiguous state. You would need to check with the sheriffs to see what their requirements are.
Ken
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Outsider
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| Joined: | Thu May 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Orem, Utah USA |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 05:20 am |
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I'm a little confused. In Utah the Utah Department of Public Safety - Bureau of Criminal Identification issues all CCWs. From what I'm getting is Oregon Sheriffs issue them, does that mean I need a CCW for every county I travel to or just file it with one sheriff? I have family in Washington and travel through Northwest Oregon and would like a CCW for that area as I travel. Please clarify.
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Puddin99
Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 05:35 am |
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Outsider wrote: I'm a little confused. In Utah the Utah Department of Public Safety - Bureau of Criminal Identification issues all CCWs. From what I'm getting is Oregon Sheriffs issue them, does that mean I need a CCW for every county I travel to or just file it with one sheriff? I have family in Washington and travel through Northwest Oregon and would like a CCW for that area as I travel. Please clarify.
Being that your not a resident of Oregon, then you can go to any county and apply for your permit. A resident would have to apply in the county in which they reside. Regardless of where the permit is issued, it is valid through out the entire state. The trick is to find a sheriff that doesn't mind issuing permits to out of state residents as it is up to their discretion.
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Outsider
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| Joined: | Thu May 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Orem, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 342 |
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 05:47 am |
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I travel through Baker, Union, and Umatilla Counties and usually stay in Pendleton, La Grande, or Baker City depending on hotel deals or wherever. Anyone know who is the best sheriff to deal with?
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Puddin99
Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 06:00 am |
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I don't know personally, but I did find this thread:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum45/5665.html
Ken
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Outsider
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| Joined: | Thu May 22nd, 2008 |
| Location: | Orem, Utah USA |
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 05:44 am |
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Puddin99 wrote: I don't know personally, but I did find this thread:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum45/5665.html
Ken
 LoL!
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Lonnie Wilson
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 06:03 am |
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Umatilla County in Pendleton is your best bet.
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charliecrusader
Member
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 08:02 am |
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Ditto Lonnie,
I'm from NE Washington, family is in Portland and Greshem but got CHL from Sheriff Trumbo in Pendleton no problem. I did have pistol training on my DD214, (armor crewman), but otherwise nothing special.
"If everyone is thinking the same, someone isn't thinking." George S. Patton
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johnnyb
Banned
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Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 10:45 pm |
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you don't need the class. use your washington permit as "proof of firearms experience"
that is what i did. i used my WA permit to get my OR permit. no classes taken or needed 
Right Wing Wacko wrote: Not yet.
Two things stopping me.
1. A class that would meet the requirements of oregon law.
2. My daughter actually becoming an OR resident. At this point she's back and forth between Umatilla and Kennewick. The Oregon income tax is convincing her to maintain Washington residence.
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