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MomTeacherFarmerHunter
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 06:59 pm |
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Would it be at all possible for us to change our line of conversation to that of what your opinions are on plans of action rather than political views? I don't mind reading about political views, however in this situation I would find it much more interesting to hear what you all think as far as plans of action or nonaction for that matter.
Thank you Pa Patriot for all of your assistance and for those of you who have stepped up to provide some 'real' support for an overall good guy.
I may be a bit biased on Mtn Jack's behalf-as he has taught me many lessons in life, love, law and in education in general, but one thing I know is that he was not there to make a scene or cause a disturbance, but rather to educate others on their rights as Americans.
Although I may be new to this forum I have heard about this group for years and have come to respect the things that you have to say. Mtn. Jack will be taken care of and supported undoubtedly as he would support any of you in similiar situations. I will lend my ears to hear more of your knowledge. Thanks again!
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 07:20 pm |
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SECRET SERVICE CONFIRMS: Jack never entered event area!
SNIP
Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble.
"Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said.
--
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08244/908415-57.stm
Gun-rights advocate arrested at rally of 30
Sunday, August 31, 2008
By Milan Simonich, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
A Beaver County man who regularly wears a pistol on his hip says police violated his rights by arresting him before a rally featuring Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama.
"I am a threat to no one. Mr. Obama doesn't trump my constitutional rights. The president of the United States doesn't trump my constitutional rights," said John Noble, who was handcuffed, questioned for about two hours and then told by state police that he would receive two citations by mail for disorderly conduct.
Mr. Noble, 50, of Industry, said he wore his Glock 19 in a holster when he entered Irvine Park in Beaver more than an hour before Mr. Obama arrived for a campaign appearance Friday night.
"I had a Bible in one hand and an apple in the other. I was going to pass out my fliers [on the rights of law-abiding Americans to carry guns], but I never got the chance."
State police in Beaver County referred questions about Mr. Noble's arrest to Trooper Shawn Schexnaildre,of New Castle, who was on the security detail in the park. He did not respond to calls for comment.
Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble.
"Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said.
Mr. Noble said four or five state troopers and sheriff's deputies, plus a police dog, descended on him after someone noticed him wearing his pistol. Mr. Noble was hard to miss, as he stands 6 feet 3 and weighs 280 pounds.
He said he did not curse, act up or defy the officers, but they charged him with being disorderly. Mr. Noble said police had to come up with something after they realized he was a law-abiding man on a campaign for handgun owners.
He said they held him for 40 minutes in a Secret Service vehicle, then took him to the Beaver barracks of the state police for questioning.
"They cuffed me and it wasn't fun. My arms are as big as sewer pipes," he said.
Police eventually read him his rights. They also confiscated his pistol.
"Didn't even give me a receipt for it. There were lots of violations of my constitutional rights," he said.
After his arrest, his wife, Janet, handed out his fliers .
Mr. Noble said he is a member of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association, which uses a line from the state Constitution as something of a motto: "The right of the people to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be questioned."
In a posting on the organization's Web site before the Obama rally, Mr. Noble announced to fellow members that he was taking his pistol to the event to test what would happen.
"I didn't think I'd get within a mile of the rally," he said later.
Still, he maintains that everything he did was legal. The Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association says an adult pedestrian carrying a handgun in plain sight does not need a license, except in Philadelphia and in places where pistols are specifically prohibited by law.
After police arrested Mr. Noble, they could not confiscate his gun without his help. He had to activate a security device to withdraw the loaded Glock from its holster.
Mr. Noble said he and his lawyer were considering their options regarding what he considers police misconduct.
"I actually like Sen. Obama. But I haven't made up my mind on whether I'm going to vote for him or for Senator [John] McCain," the likely Republican nominee.
Milan Simonich can be reached at msimonich@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1956.
First published on August 31, 2008 at 12:00 am
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Cocked and Locked
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Aug 31st, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 01:07 am |
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If he had been trying to display his weapon for the reasoning of the 2nd Amendment or using it as some form of statement, I would say he was asking for trouble inside a secured area, however........He was going about his normal routine in a legal area obeying the law in an area that he was within his full right to carry his side arm.
This sickens me and shows exactly why our rights continue to go quietly away
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 03:03 am |
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. WRONG... Troll. Defending this man's actions is EXACTLY what open carry requires. Do you own a firearm? Do you OC, CC or both? I see you don't post your location either. I see the 'pro-gun' folks here have waved you around already a bit. 
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Grapeshot
Activist Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 05:21 am |
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Trolls whither and blow away if you do not feed them. 
Yata hey
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HELEN
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 06:38 pm |
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| SHAME ON YOU,,THE ONLY THING JACK IS NUTS ABOUT IS PERTECTING YOUR'S AND MY "RIGHTS",,I'V KNOWN JACK FOR 20 PLUS YEARS AND HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR HIM,,AND WOULD STAND IN FRONT OF HIM IF NEEDED,,IF ARE PD KNEW THE LAW LIKE JACK THEY WOULD OF HELPED HIM PASS OUT THE FLYERS,,NOT THROW HIS BIBLE ON THE GROUND.
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 09:27 pm |
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| This un-American crap just pisses me off. MTN Jack was never a threat to anybody. The JBTs were, and are, the threat to liberty and freedom. And what is this crap about permits? Maybe all the B.S. talk about permits will require a different solution. Long gun open carry outside of the perimeter comes to mind. Even state police, the S.S. and news reporters know that no permit is required for a rifle. Next time Obama or McCain comes to town, no Sig 229 in a holster. A Swedish Mauser on the shoulder. Why? Because I'm an American.
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Overtaxed
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 11:20 pm |
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Any sort of gathering involving politicos seems to become a "temporary abrogation of rights zone" And said zones seem to get larger every year.
Back in 2004, there were some real excesses during both parties' conventions. Huge exclusion zones, even to pedestrians, etc. Small merchants unfortunate enough to be inside of those areas suffered terribly because the convention-goers mostly attended catered private functions and high-end tony restaurants - they didn't buy sandwiches from the local deli, and clothes from the nearby haberdasher. Regular Folks were literally told to "stay away" from Boston... not that it was easy to get there with the major road closures, including an important highway artery that thousands of commuters use every day to get both into and *past* Boston on their way to other cities.
One of the reasons I read or watched so little about both conventions this year, is that I didn't want to become ill after hearing talk of how the "little people" were being treated as potential enemy combatants in their own home cities.
I hope to God my city never hosts a large political gathering of any type... because I don't waste my money on donations, or my time trying to network with politicians, or God Forbid getting into the politics myself, I know I won't be welcome in my own home town for the five or so days the Republicrats will have control of the place.
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jbone
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jun 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | Arlington, WA |
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 01:50 am |
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SNIP: cuffed and shackled, read his rights, confiscate pistol.
SNIP: receive two citations by mail.
This is how Democrats view of the 2nd.
First a man arrested in Denver Hotel because Pelosi was staying there, now this poor guy at an Obama event. What do they have up there sleeves for the next anti-gun display/media fest?
[size= ]
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gravedigger
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Jul 20th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:54 am |
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This really makes me angry! Just because some leftist socialist anti-American Marxist dirt bag slithers into town, the cops toss the Constitution out of the window and arrest Mtn. Jack "just because." He was arrested, handcuffed, hauled away and questioned, and the damnedest thing about it is, there are NO REPERCUSSIONS and NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION taken for those keystone cops. If it is allowed to be just quietly put to rest, the cops will be given the message that putting a citizen through this sort of B.S. when he is LEGALLY EXERCISING HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT is acceptable. It is imperative that the details of this arrest be brought to the forefront, conservative TV, newspapers and radio, and we DEMAND that Obama acknowledge that the action was both illegal and unnecessary. There are no words to describe the loathing I hold for liberals.
Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:54 am by gravedigger
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Pa. Patriot
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 01:23 pm |
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gravedigger wrote: ... and the damnedest thing about it is, there are NO REPERCUSSIONS and NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION taken for those keystone cops.
I wouldn't be so sure  ...
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hsmith
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 03:46 pm |
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gravedigger wrote: This really makes me angry! Just because some leftist socialist anti-American Marxist dirt bag slithers into town, the cops toss the Constitution out of the window and arrest Mtn. Jack "just because." He was arrested, handcuffed, hauled away and questioned, and the damnedest thing about it is, there are NO REPERCUSSIONS and NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION taken for those keystone cops. If it is allowed to be just quietly put to rest, the cops will be given the message that putting a citizen through this sort of B.S. when he is LEGALLY EXERCISING HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT is acceptable. It is imperative that the details of this arrest be brought to the forefront, conservative TV, newspapers and radio, and we DEMAND that Obama acknowledge that the action was both illegal and unnecessary. There are no words to describe the loathing I hold for liberals.
To be fair this isn't an "Obama" only thing - look at the "free speech zones" setup with Bush. Look at the raids of protesters houses for the RNC convention. The detention on protesters in Denver for the DNC convention.
It isn't a Democrat or Republican thing - it is a "Leaders" who hate the citizens thing.
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mvpel
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 04:46 pm |
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Look at the raids of protesters houses for the RNC convention.
I'll agree with you on abusive "free speech zones" designed to prevent politicians from having to look at signs critical of their policies, but on this point, I don't think you're on target.
If you look at the physical violence and destruction that the radical left has unleashed against their political enemies - WTO in Seattle, the "Recreate 68" push for this year, the 2004 protests in NYC, the violence during anti-war protests, the beatings of conservatives - it's only common sense to try to head it off sooner than the point at which you're giving the order to fire the tear gas canisters. The 1999 WTO cost to Seattle in direct and indirect costs came to nearly $30 million, plus settlements paid to people who had their civil rights violated during the chaos of the police operations.
I don't think that the police should ignore evidence of planned, organized violence, which is what not doing that raid would have amounted to.
Here's what the people raided planned, according to their own website:
http://volokh.com/posts/1220218012.shtml
Tier One: Establish 15-20 blockades, utilizing a diversity of tactics, creating an inner and outer ring around St. Paul’s Excel Center, where the RNC is to take place.
Tier Two: Immobilize the delegates’ transportation infrastructure, including the busses that are to convey them.
Tier Three: Block the five western bridges connecting the Twin Cities.
Should the police sit by and do nothing?
"We will be executing our right of free speech to take away the right of free speech from this specific party."
Basically, a totalitarian mindset. Use the freedoms of America to destroy the freedoms of America. Anyone else here read The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind? Magic = Freedom?
Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 04:50 pm by mvpel
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gravedigger
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 04:59 pm |
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hsmith wrote: gravedigger wrote: This really makes me angry!
It isn't a Democrat or Republican thing - it is a "Leaders" who hate the citizens thing.
I agree 100%, but this particular incident involved Obama's presence or pending presence.
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rscottie
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:05 pm |
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(Edit: Oops, sorry, the response below is to "No Carry Permit - I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around." Need to figure out how to put it in the white box...sorry)
I have been a lurker for a while now, reading and digesting.
I could not just holler at my computer when I read what this gentleman wrote.
I would like to know exactly what this man was doing for YOU to refer to him as a "nutcase"?
Was it the gun on his hip? Was it the Bible in his hand? The Apple? Or was it perhaps the Pro-Gun Literature that he was intending to hand out?
His was a political statement, what better place to do it than NEAR a Political Rally?
If the biggest thing you worry about is what the anti's think, you should get a spine.
To the others, sorry for the rant.
Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:09 pm by rscottie
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cccook
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:37 pm |
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Speaking for myself as one of the others, no apology is necessary. I think you're right on the money. Welcome to the OCDO board. I think it was a good rant.
Rage on rscottie. Clear thoughts are always welcome here.
Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:42 pm by cccook
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Pa. Patriot
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 06:10 pm |
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Just got word that Jack's situation is being discussed right now on KDKA Pittsburg (CBS)
http://kdka.com/
On the Mry Griffin (sp?) show.
Apparently they are taking callers and there have been some giving 100% incorrect info out in regards to the legality of OC
I do not have high speed access right now so I can't get any stream...
We need locals to check this out and hopefuly call in.
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Count
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 06:52 pm |
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| I hope Mr. Noble will file a civil lawsuit. This is so outrageous. Police have to swear they will uphold the Constitution, the laws, and ordinances (if local police). This reminds me of a police state... isn't that what Obama wants?
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SlackwareRobert
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 09:20 pm |
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Get the SS also, they violated his rights by...
1. Holding him when they had no jurisdiction. (unless it was a federal park)
2. Not returning his firearm after they determined he was no threat.
3. Handing him over to local police (mob)
who were then going to violate his civil rights.
If he was already disarmed by local police, then by what justification can
he be put in federal custdy whithout being charged with something.
I just wish he was carrying the new Heller Memorial Pistol, and yes it is
a memorial pistol, or all this wouldn't be happening.
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kb0tpz
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Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 06:43 pm |
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hey Mike,
can you give me information on what I need to do to start an open carry movement here in mo, I know that in some places you can and others you can not but I think it should be the same in the whole state?
Mark
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