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Grapeshot
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 03:48 am |
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DarrelM wrote:snip....
Hello All, I am a CHL holder in Dallas TX, For What it is worth on this particular day I can not same that I blame the local LEO's for talking to Mr. Noble, considering that there was going to be a presidential candidate in the are in very short time but here is how I think it should have gone down
LEO(s) - Sir may we have a word with you?
Mr. Noble - of how can I help you gentlemen?
LEO - Well sir it has been brought to our attention that you are wearing a firearm here today, and we know that you are not breaking the LAW by doing so, but given today we are having a presidential candidate in town in a couple of hours, would you mind placing you firearm in your vehicle until this is over with? Again we know you have not broken any laws but it tends to make it the SS a little nervous.
Mr. Noble - ok thanks I will either leave the area or take it to my car
LEO - lets Mr. Noble go and thanks him for his cooperation and wishes he a good afternoon.
First welcome to OCDO.
Above daydream is a nice thought but it did not go down that way!
LEO -Why are you carrying that?
Mtn Jack - Because I'm an American.
LEO - Well you are under arrest!
How large of a secret security zone exists - 300 ft ?, 1000 ft ? 1 mile?
Mtn Jack was not within a secured area - he violated no laws.
I know the thread is long - 8 pages worth but it would behoove you to read it all.
Not trying to make you feel unwelcome, I can tell your heart and sympathies are in the right place.
Yata hey
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Mack 12ga.
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:12 am |
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What I would like to know is how many people where arrested for concealed carry ? wouldn't they be more of a threat ?? Just because he had a gun that was legal for him to carry doesn't give the LEO's the right to ask anyone to leave just because it makes them nerves.
He was well with in his right and if they where so worried about his gun in the holster they could have just as easily canceled the Obomanation from speaking at the rally and had it out in the desert where they could have secured a fifty mile radius so no one could get close enough to put him outa our misery.
The bottom line is we shouldn't have to adjust our rights to soot them, so long as he wasn't a threat, they could do nothing not even ask his name, this is not to say they couldn't have come up and just started a conversation with him just to gather info and be polite. BUT IN NO WAY COULD THEY HAVE DONE WHAT THEY DID AND GET AWAY WITH IT.
And I also believe he should sue every one from state to the men packin badges!!!!!!!!!
Last edited on Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:48 pm by Mack 12ga.
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Grapeshot
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:17 am |
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Way to much unneeded quoted copy. Need to either just "Reply" or learn to edit.
It makes for difficult reading and takes away from your post - IMO.
Yata hey
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Mack 12ga.
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:24 pm |
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Yep your rite hows that ,,
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mvpel
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 05:08 pm |
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If only it weren't so vexing to delete nested quote tags in WYSIWYG mode...
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Sep 10th, 2008 12:28 am |
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DarrelM wrote: Hello All, I am a CHL holder in Dallas TX, For What it is worth on this particular day I can not same that I blame the local LEO's for talking to Mr. Noble, considering that there was going to be a presidential candidate in the are in very short time but here is how I think it should have gone down
LEO(s) - Sir may we have a word with you?
Mr. Noble - of how can I help you gentlemen?
LEO - Well sir it has been brought to our attention that you are wearing a firearm here today, and we know that you are not breaking the LAW by doing so, but given today we are having a presidential candidate in town in a couple of hours, would you mind placing you firearm in your vehicle until this is over with? Again we know you have not broken any laws but it tends to make it the SS a little nervous.
Mr. Noble - ok thanks I will either leave the area or take it to my car
LEO - lets Mr. Noble go and thanks him for his cooperation and wishes he a good afternoon.
Again I do not think Mr. Noble did anything wrong nor did he deserve to be treated the way he was treated. I wish that more people were educated better about those of us that choose to carry ( in what ever fashion) we don't do so because we are out looking for problems and want to hurt any one we just want the ability to protect ourselves, our families and the other inocent people around us. I also wish that the press would not go out of thier way to paint such a bad picture and for once would report the truth about how things are instead of painting us out to be a bunch of hot heads that is just looking for a fight. I can understand the Local LEO's aking mr. Noble for some ID and to maybe even run a BG check on him after all he could be a bad guy in disguise, but once they found that he was not wanted or a felon or anyother thing of that nature that should have sent him on his way.
An alternative for the activist:
LEO(s) - Sir may we have a word with you?
Activist - Am I being detained?
LEO - No sir, but it has been brought to our attention that you are wearing a firearm here today, and we know that you are not breaking the LAW by doing so, but given today we are having a presidential candidate in town in a couple of hours, would you mind placing you firearm in your vehicle until this is over with? Again we know you have not broken any laws but it tends to make it the SS a little nervous.
Activist- ok thanks. You have already indicated that I am violating no law. That information has been recorded for any future legal use I may have for it. I will continue my lawful behavior. Have a good day officer.
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Grapeshot
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Sep 10th, 2008 12:37 am |
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Whaat!
Do you think the situation would have played out any differently?
IMO - it would have gone down exactly the same and Mtn Jack would have been arrested and charged without cause.
As for me, I am perfectly willing to see this work its way through the system and I look forward to the results. Personally, I hope Mtn Jack at least needs a new truck.
Yata hey
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Rob62
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Sep 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 1 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Sep 11th, 2008 04:28 pm |
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I had planed on posting more than this, but am pretty speechless about the whole incident.
This is what I wrote on another forum.
My prediction is that he, Mr. Noble, will not be charged. 
He will then sue the government for infringement of his rights. This court case will drag out for years and YEARS - because the government has unlimited legal resources (read taxpayer $$). Ultimately, he will win his case.
There will be a ruling that the government did do a bad thing. And Mr Noble or his kids, if he does not live long enough to see the court outcome, will get a sizable amount of money.
Then in a few years after that someone else legally open CCWing, if its still legal then, will get arrested and the whole process will repeat itself.
Yes, I am being pessimistic today.
FWIW - The same thing would probably have happened at a McCain rally.
Rob
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SlackwareRobert
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 10th, 2008 |
| Location: | Alabama |
| Posts: | 962 |
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Posted: Thu Sep 11th, 2008 09:18 pm |
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The only thing dumber than the police is that reporter that
thinks you can trample a constitutional right if someone else thinks
there might be a percieved violatin of thier rights.
Still waiting for my post that I will enjoy watching him stand up for the
arrest and confiscation of cameras of his media friends when they violate
someones 'rite to privacy'. A clear conflict of rights.
It's only been 30 hours, it could still show up.
Seems to me when the SS diclined to detain him anymore then the locals
had no more cause to not return his glock, and wish him a nice day.
Then go back to the complaintant, and cite him for attempting to cause pannick
by yelling 'gun' in a crowded park.
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rodbender
Founder's Club Member
| Joined: | Mon Jun 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Elgin, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1184 |
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Offline
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 12:27 am |
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SlackwareRobert wrote: Seems to me when the SS diclined to detain him anymore then the locals
had no more cause to not return his glock, and wish him a nice day.
Then go back to the complaintant, and cite him for attempting to cause pannick
by yelling 'gun' in a crowded park.
But one cop had already said he was under arrest, they were stuck and had to come up with something. Then hope he would be happy with charges being dropped or being found not guilty.
They were stuck, big time stuck.
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Grapeshot
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 12th, 2008 01:43 am |
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rodbender wrote: SlackwareRobert wrote: Seems to me when the SS diclined to detain him anymore then the locals
had no more cause to not return his glock, and wish him a nice day.
Then go back to the complaintant, and cite him for attempting to cause pannick
by yelling 'gun' in a crowded park.
But one cop had already said he was under arrest, they were stuck and had to come up with something. Then hope he would be happy with charges being dropped or being found not guilty.
They were stuck, big time stuck.
Confusious said, "Too big a bite is very hard to swallow."
Yata hey
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khicks
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 06:14 pm |
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| any news on mtn jack, hearing dates? any thing at all
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lildobe
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 06:32 pm |
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khicks wrote: any news on mtn jack, hearing dates? any thing at all
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/16773.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/33601-mtn-jack-hearing-info-roll-call.html
Last edited on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 06:34 pm by lildobe
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khicks
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 07:51 pm |
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thank you
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45-ACP
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 01:49 pm |
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found this this mornin
Police: Man carrying gun at Obama rally wanted to see what happened
The Times/LUCY SCHALY
John Noble, who was arrested for carrying a gun at rally for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama last month, will face trial in Beaver County Court.
ADVERTISEMENT
By Bob Bauder, Times Staff
Published: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 10:36 PM EDT
BEAVER — An Industry man arrested after openly carrying a handgun to an August presidential rally in Beaver wore an empty holster to court on Monday and defended his right to bear arms, but the judge wasn’t buying his argument.
District Judge Douglas Loughner ruled in Beaver County Court Monday that John Noble, 50, of 1063 Willowbrook Drive should stand trial on misdemeanor charges of disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting, stemming from the Sept. 29 rally for Democratic presidential running mates Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
According to hearing testimony, the incident was at least partially triggered by comments Obama made in April about rural Americans being bitter and clinging to guns and religion. And the defense argued that Noble had a constitutional right to attend armed.
Noble said in an interview before the hearing that he never intended to cause a ruckus, and he wasn’t there to make a statement. He was there, he said, to distribute gun-rights literature and “mirror” Obama’s comments.
However, prosecutors presented evidence that he had planned the appearance in advance “to test what would happen.”
Noble was accompanied by his wife, Janet, who was carrying a Bible, and at least nine other supporters, at least four of whom wore empty holsters at their sides.
Pennsylvania law permits residents to carry handguns so long as they are not concealed.
“I would have my firearm today with me if I was allowed and if it wasn’t taken away,” Noble said.
The others said they arrived at the courthouse armed, but checked their guns at the door. The county provides locked storage containers at each of the two courthouse entrances for police officers and residents to store guns.
Prosecutors called John Atkinson Sr. of Vanport Township, the first person to spot Noble in a crowd of about 300 people standing in Beaver’s McIntosh Square. Obama, Biden and other Democratic leaders were speaking less than 100 yards away in Quay Square. The parks are at the center of town.
Atkinson said Noble had a semiautomatic 9mm handgun holstered on his right hip and was carrying a Bible. Noble crossed under a police tape cordoning off the park and began distributing literature.
Atkinson, who has a license to carry a concealed weapon and has been a gun owner most of his life, said he immediately hailed a sheriff’s deputy and pointed out Noble, who was arrested on the spot.
“He had every right to (have the gun), but in my opinion, this was a presidential rally, and that isn’t the right time or place to carry a firearm,” Atkinson said.
State Police Trooper Shawn Schexnaildre, the arresting officer, testified that Noble’s gun was loaded with 14 rounds, including one in the chamber ready for firing. He described Noble as a “pleasant gentleman” and “not hostile in any way.” Noble cooperated with his questioning, he said. The first question was about the gun.
“He looked me right in the eye and said, ‘I’m here to show Mr. Obama that Pennsylvanians still cling to their guns and religion,’ ” the officer said.
Schexnaildre said Internet postings on two Web sites indicated that Noble planned the incident.
Several days before the rally, Noble posted a message on one site saying he would attend the rally armed “to test what would happen,” Schexnaildre said. A subsequent post on the day of the rally urged readers to bring their guns and Bibles to Beaver that night.
Assistant District Attorney Frank Martucci said the police didn’t arrest Noble because he had a gun, but because he caused a public disturbance by wearing it to the rally.
Noble’s attorney, Steve Colafella, said that his client had every right to carry a gun, even to the rally, and that he believed Noble had a good chance of acquittal at trial. Prosecutors, he said, were sending a public message by charging him.
“I think they’re sending a message that they want to discourage the practice of openly carrying a firearm to a political rally,” he said.
Bob Bauder can be reached online at bbauder@timesonline.com.
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mvpel
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 03:19 pm |
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So, the prosecution is admitting that there's a First Amendment nexus in this case, as well as a Second Amendment. All the better for Noble's lawsuit against the Sheriff for violation of his civil rights under color of law.
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CowboyKen
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu May 31st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 318 |
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Offline
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 04:29 pm |
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mvpel wrote: So, the prosecution is admitting that there's a First Amendment nexus in this case, as well as a Second Amendment. All the better for Noble's lawsuit against the Sheriff for violation of his civil rights under color of law.
If he is convicted and serves jail time, can he still sue?
Ken
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mvpel
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 04:33 pm |
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Add the judge to the named defendants in the lawsuit?
"Shall not be questioned" is pretty clear-cut and unambiguous.
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 05:58 pm |
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| So Noble (allegedly) crossed under a "police tape"?? Those things usually say "POLICE LINE DO NOT CROSS". Either the witness is a lying SOS or Noble made a bad move. I need an aspirin.........
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mvpel
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Oct 8th, 2008 06:47 pm |
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300 other people were there, according to the same witness, so it must not have been much of a "cordon."
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