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RU98A
Activist Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Missouri |
| Posts: | 68 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 07:39 pm |
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| Maybe the words to protect and serve should be required to be removed from the logos as the Supreme Court of the US has deemed it to be unconstitutional and they have no requirement to do either.
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fingers80002
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jun 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Hanover,Pa |
| Posts: | 19 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 09:10 pm |
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There is a Utah CCW class being held in PA, Raising funds for SFN's defense.
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/33516-utah-ccw-course-benefit-shefearsnothing-s-legal-defense-fund.html
If anyone from SC PA wants to go, I have room in the car!
Last edited on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 09:11 pm by fingers80002
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kamotamo
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 27th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 09:55 pm |
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| Thanks for your concern, but I stand by my statements. Here in Ohio, my "facts are factual", as you put it. And they probably are in PA as well. Any organization has the ability to implement rules, which if violated, or not agreed to, would preclude someone from participation in their events. If, as has been stated, the Lebanon Soccer Assoc., has no such rules, then I concede the point, and the director was wrong to attempt to create them after the fact. My teams have played in Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, and Florida, and the rules are always the same..no weapons at the field. Perhaps I should not have assumed that Pennsylvania was in line with their neighbors.
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shefearsnothing
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 27th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 54 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 10:11 pm |
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They have no such rules and in fact it is not listed in the parent code of conduct. I asked multiple times for a signed copy of my parent code of conduct and received no reply. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Now, the club can refuse anyone who will not sign an agreement if they want to put such a restriction in their rules I guess since they are a private club but since they are playing at a public park I think they would still have a hard time enforcing that....I mean, who would be stupid enough to sign away their rights for some soccer games?  (Yeah I know, someone may say "think of the kids though...what if they want to play?" Well, I know what my kids would say...."if you can't have your guns we don't want to play!") 
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DanM
Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 10:13 pm |
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kamotamo wrote: Just a side note - I am a LEO and fully support carrying weapons; however, I have NEVER carried a gun while coaching or watching my kid's games.
Is lawful carry at kid's games bad, or just simply a matter of choice in personal self-defense preparedness which others should stop wetting their pants about?
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Theseus
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 10:15 pm |
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kamotamo wrote: Thanks for your concern, but I stand by my statements. Here in Ohio, my "facts are factual", as you put it. And they probably are in PA as well. Any organization has the ability to implement rules, which if violated, or not agreed to, would preclude someone from participation in their events. If, as has been stated, the Lebanon Soccer Assoc., has no such rules, then I concede the point, and the director was wrong to attempt to create them after the fact. My teams have played in Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, and Florida, and the rules are always the same..no weapons at the field. Perhaps I should not have assumed that Pennsylvania was in line with their neighbors.
I am so impressed! No one resorted to name calling. It is restoring my faith in the board.
It was heated and pointed, but not insulting.
I think one of the missed points here is that the rules forbidding weapons is a ridiculous one and even if it does exist needs to be removed. I have to often heard of criminals and gang members shooting people at these events, and several of them here in the LA area. Games are just as likely a place as a school, church or other "gun free zones" organizations create and therefore protection is necessary.
As that Senator from Texas states, if you take away someones ability to defend themselves then YOU should not only bear the responsibility of protecting that person, but you should also be liable if something does go wrong.
I am assuming that the soccer organization does not pay armed security guards to protect the family, nor do they have the funds to support any liability suits to arise, so they should then not forbid people from carrying.
I feel that of anyone, this lady was the only one in her right mind. I don't have a doubt in my mind that this woman would have used her gun to protect any of the parents or children there if needed even though they did not desire to protect themselves, and for that I think she should get a pat on the back.
I almost hope that some crazy person does something while this lady isn't around at one of the games just so these idiots would understand WHY we do what we do. (And I really do say this with the utmost desire that nothing does ever happen or that anyone gets injured.)
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DanM
Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 10:37 pm |
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kamotamo wrote: . . . the rules are always the same..no weapons at the field. . . .
Yeah, that will keep weapons away from the field!
People who make rules like this, that keep bad guys from bringing their guns to these areas, are really smart. They're like rocket-scientist smart!
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Venator
Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 11:17 pm |
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kamotamo wrote: I have been involved with youth soccer for many years, and what is occurring here is simply an attempt to enforce rules that all participants agree to when signing their child up to play. Failure to agree to the rules means your child will not be permitted to play. As Melanie's child was on a team, she agreed to abide by the league rules. The authority to enforce the rules in a public park typically occurs because the soccer organization has leased the property for the times that games are being played-in other words, during scheduled games and practices, the property is no longer a public park. Therefore, they have the ability to control who is present, as well as their behavior. This includes removal from the property by law enforcement if necessary.
Please cite the law for this. The land is still public and a person can still OC there whether they are a parent or a coach. The child must obey the rules, and I don't think the kid was carrying.
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Venator
Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 11:18 pm |
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kamotamo wrote: I agree, the permit being pulled was wrong, and it should be returned. The action of the league; however, seems appropiate - assuming they have rules banning weapons, as most do.
Just a side note - I am a LEO and fully support carrying weapons; however, I have NEVER carried a gun while coaching or watching my kid's games.
Good for you.
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possumboy
Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 27th, 2008 11:47 pm |
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kamotamo wrote: Thanks for your concern, but I stand by my statements. Here in Ohio, my "facts are factual", as you put it. And they probably are in PA as well. Any organization has the ability to implement rules, which if violated, or not agreed to, would preclude someone from participation in their events. If, as has been stated, the Lebanon Soccer Assoc., has no such rules, then I concede the point, and the director was wrong to attempt to create them after the fact. My teams have played in Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, and Florida, and the rules are always the same..no weapons at the field. Perhaps I should not have assumed that Pennsylvania was in line with their neighbors.
OK, being from Ohio makes a big difference.
Now, for our knowledge, can you post the code/law that makes leased public property private property for the duration of the lease?
Note: It is generally expected to cite code when making factual statements.
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LancerSykera
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 12:04 am |
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Thanks, Sheriff DeLeo, for granting my application for a concealed carry license even though I have a criminal record! But shame...
Anyway, seeing as I live in this same county (and am trying to figure out what undisclosed small business she runs so I can go visit her and congratulate her), maybe I should go visit the basement of the municipal building and give him a piece of my mind in person, no?
Thanks everybody, for getting this so out in the open like you have. I used to think DeLeo wasn't such a bad guy, but now... ehh.
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Tomahawk
Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | Northern VA |
| Posts: | 3415 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 01:58 am |
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kamotamo wrote: Just a side note - I am a LEO and fully support carrying weapons; however, I have NEVER carried a gun while coaching or watching my kid's games.
So what?
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RU98A
Activist Member
| Joined: | Thu Jan 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Missouri |
| Posts: | 68 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 02:06 am |
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Tomahawk wrote: kamotamo wrote: Just a side note - I am a LEO and fully support carrying weapons; however, I have NEVER carried a gun while coaching or watching my kid's games.
So what?
He is from Ohio trying to impose Ohio think so law and rules onto PA. Ever heard LEO's trying to present thinks so as absolute law before?
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TheMrMitch
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 03:00 am |
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"Just a side note - I am a LEO and fully support carrying weapons; however, I have NEVER carried a gun while coaching or watching my kid's games".
THAT.....scares me. If enough people think kids at games are exempt from violence because of statements like that, self protection and protection of the kids will become a thing of the past.
I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn to get my opinion, but I do stay at the jail a lot...as a Corrections Officer. The ONLY place I do not carry.
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mvpel
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 03:22 am |
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Just a side note - I am a LEO and fully support carrying weapons; however, I have NEVER carried a gun while coaching or watching my kid's games.
So, why not?
How do you know that none of the soccer moms is in the middle of a bitter divorce from a violent abuser, or that said abuser won't show up at the park with a machete to carry out his sick "if I can't have you, no one can" plans, cutting down anyone who gets between him and his estranged wife and children?
Yeah, odds are that they're not, but are you willing to bet the life of your children on even a 0.0001% chance?
Are you saying that children are somehow less worthy of protection from violence than some scraps of paper in a bank?
This notion that guns should be banned from certain places is just a symptom of a pathological mindset that guns are somehow "unclean," that they taint the place where they are present with some mysterious aura of violence.
But what such people don't seem to understand is that some violence is righteous, and necessary, and GOOD!!
Like the violence carried out by Jeanne Assam, in Colorado Springs, when she wielded her sidearm against a mass-murderer in the lobby of her church. Not a single person died after Ms. Assam decided to act, except for the murderer.
Yet some people would have stripped her of her ability to defend the lives of hundreds of people, because of some voodoo superstition about an inanimate object "desecrating" a "holy place." It's sickening to contemplate, frankly.
The fact is, Ms. Assam acted in a holy manner when she shot that man - she acted in defense of holy and precious human lives.
Last edited on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 03:25 am by mvpel
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hsmith
Member
| Joined: | Thu Mar 29th, 2007 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 967 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 03:22 am |
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kamotamo wrote: I have been involved with youth soccer for many years, and what is occurring here is simply an attempt to enforce rules that all participants agree to when signing their child up to play. Failure to agree to the rules means your child will not be permitted to play. As Melanie's child was on a team, she agreed to abide by the league rules. The authority to enforce the rules in a public park typically occurs because the soccer organization has leased the property for the times that games are being played-in other words, during scheduled games and practices, the property is no longer a public park. Therefore, they have the ability to control who is present, as well as their behavior. This includes removal from the property by law enforcement if necessary.
Since when do rules of a soccer league translate into legal rule?
If she had violated league rule, she would have had her child kicked off the team. If she kept showing up to league events she might be able to be charged with trespassing (which is questionable, public land!).
But, breaking the league rules has nothing to do with law and the CHP.
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Pa. Patriot
State Researcher
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 04:54 am |
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kamotamo wrote: Thanks for your concern, but I stand by my statements.
So even though all of your "statements" were pointed out to be either false or not applicable for PA, (where this happened), you STILL "stand by your statements". 
1) The league had NO such weapons policy
2) Public property is PREEMPTED in PA (18Pa.C.S.6120). Lease or no lease.
3) there was no "action of the league". Only one person purporting to be speaking for the league that was later clarified to NOT BE SPEAKING FOR THE LEAGUE by the league president.
Now, again:
Your "statements" do not apply to this case.
Which part do you not understand?
Last edited on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 04:54 am by Pa. Patriot
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forever_frost
Member
| Joined: | Sun Aug 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | Cooper, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 39 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 05:02 am |
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Anytime someone starts a reply with "I'm a LEO" and then proceeds to explain why a legal action is really illegal and thus shouldn't be done, bothers me. I know if I had the option to open carry, I would. Daily. If the officer doesn't want to carry because of some misplaced thought that to not carry keeps the children safe, I'll be sure that if and when things hit the fan, I'll do the job he can't.
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Heartless_Conservative
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 189 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 06:05 am |
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kamotamo wrote: Just a side note - I am a LEO and fully support carrying weapons; however, I have NEVER carried a gun while coaching or watching my kid's games.
So what?
Probably one of those "I'm a cop so I'm better than you" people that are doing their gosh darn best to destroy the trust between the community and law enforcement.
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Thundar
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 28th, 2008 12:14 pm |
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forever_frost wrote: Anytime someone starts a reply with "I'm a LEO" and then proceeds to explain why a legal action is really illegal and thus shouldn't be done, bothers me.
The I'm a LEO beginning gives others reading the thread perspective about the other person. Many times their view or knowledge level about open carry is valuable here. It helps the activists to identify issues or areas where more effort, especially LEO education, is needed.
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