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Doug Huffman
State Researcher
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 12:24 pm |
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3. Reciprocity update. This makes my rear end tired. We have GOT to
fix this. :-(
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**** SOUTH CAROLINA RESIDENTS - BE SURE TO READ THIS ENTIRE SECTION!
****
Tom Lambert, with the Virginia State Police, just sent me an update on
Virginia's reciprocity status with several other states. I want to
thank Tom for his professionalism and his diligent work to setup
reciprocity with as many states as possible. The rant that follows
has nothing to do with Tom - I want to make that perfectly clear.
As I looked at Tom's latest update, one glaring problem jumps out at
me: the Virginia State Police's demand that all reciprocal states
have a system in place to verify the validity of their permits 24
hours a day, 7 days a week, is crushing a lot of reciprocal agreements!
The net effect is that YOU are left defenseless in many states as you
travel solely because if this unnecessary requirement by YOUR state
police. And many guests to this state are similarly and unnecessarily
disarmed.
That is unacceptable and we need to do whatever we can to get that
24/7 requirement struck out of Virginia law.
Let me show you just how inane and how serious a problem this is.
***Virginia has JUST stopped recognizing South Carolina concealed
handgun permits. ***
Why?
Because apparently South Carolina does not have the 24/7 validation
capability. For years now Virginia thought they did and has been
recognizing their permits! Virginia just now discovered the problem
while reviewing information with South Carolina!
So for years not one single Virginia police officer has needed to
verify a South Carolina CHP. If they had, this problem would have
surfaced a long time ago.
That confirms what VCDL has been saying all along: WHILE THE STATE
POLICE DEMAND 24/7 VALIDATION, VCDL DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY EVER OR
**EXTREMELY RARELY** USE IT!!
Here is what the State Police's 24/7 validation demand has caused gun
owners across the country:
1. After many, many years, South Carolina has just offered Virginia
reciprocity, BUT because we have just stopped recognizing South
Carolina over the 24/7 issue, the deal is DEAD! :-(
2. Virginia will not recognize Idaho, even though they have honored
our permits for years, because Idaho does not have 24/7 validation.
3. Virginia will not recognize Indiana, even though they have honored
our permits for years, because Indiana does not have 24/7 validation.
4. Virginia will not setup reciprocity with Maine because Maine
doesn't have 24/7 validation.
5. Virginia will not setup reciprocity with Alabama because Alabama
doesn't have 24/7 validation.
6. Virginia will not setup reciprocity with New Hampshire because New
Hampshire doesn't have 24/7 validation.
7. In a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander", Nevada
has turned Virginia down because our damned 24/7 validation isn't
automated!
The State Police and the General Assembly need to understand this is
not a game. Lives are at stake and we need to get rid of the road
blocks that are fragmenting the 2nd Amendment and our right to defend
ourselves and our families.
This whole issue has just been bumped up in VCDL's legislative agenda
for next year.
We finally get offered reciprocity by South Carolina and the Virginia
State Police force us to fumble the ball. I'm livid!
If you are from South Carolina, you are going to have to use either a
Florida, Utah, or a Virginia non-resident permit to carry concealed
here, I'm embarrassed to say. [code]
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SouthernBoy
Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 05:42 pm |
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WTF! And I'm heading out early tomorrow morning to South Carolina for a week.
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M&P.40
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 02:59 am |
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Hope you mountaineers get this issue solved and hopfully SC will offer again in the near future.. GOOD LUCK! this looks like a major problem for you guys.hopfully only for a short while..
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WVCDL
State Researcher
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 06:10 am |
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Looks like we're about to hit the same brick wall. One more reason West Virginia needs to enact a universal recognition law such as 2008 SB 228 or HB 4683, which I wrote.
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Doug Huffman
State Researcher
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 02:07 pm |
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The NRA 'members' and a$$iliates would like to be the dominant political power in the SC gun control debate and their tracks are all over 'reciprocity'.
The NRA Emperor has no clothes! Whatever tracks he leaves are good and beautiful according to his sycophants.
you can thank the NRA and their boy
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PT111
Member
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 06:18 pm |
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| Ironic thing is that if the original universal recognition bill had passed it would make no difference for SC residents as it had nothing to do with a 24/7 verification process.
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WVCDL
State Researcher
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 06:33 pm |
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PT111 wrote: Ironic thing is that if the original universal recognition bill had passed it would make no difference for SC residents as it had nothing to do with a 24/7 verification process.
I think SLED once did provide 24/7 verification at a time when SC law did not permit the establishment of reciprocity with VA and WV and conveniently decided to stop offering it since SC's reciprocity law changed. They continue to screw with us and merely pulled this rabbit from the hat, which also gives them the luxury of externalizing the blame and telling the SC General Assembly that it's not their fault this time. 
I would bet anything that if SC had a universal recognition law (such as the House version of H 3212) and needed to meet the VA and WV 24/7 verification requirements to get SC CWPs recognized here, they would not need much time to do so. All it takes is having someone man the phone at SLED HQ CWP Section 24/7 and providing that phone number to the VA State Police and WV State Police--that's it!
All SLED has done is give me and PVC the extra ammo we need to finally get our respective legislatures to stop this shell game by dropping our own conditional reciprocity laws in favor of universal recognition (see 2007 VA HB 2235 2008 WV SB 228 and HB 4683). I wish my SC counterparts luck on similar legislation, since I know that the new SC reciprocity law still does not allow reciprocity with GA, AL, MS, and many other states that are willing to establish reciprocity with anyone and everyone.
Last edited on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 06:36 pm by WVCDL
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Doug Huffman
State Researcher
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 06:57 pm |
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Pinging 1swellguy, XO at GRSC...e-mail sent.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 07:30 pm |
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I think a FL permit holder who is a citizen outside of FL should sue SC to strike down their discrimination against FL permit holders based purely on state citizenship under Article IV, privileges and immunities clause.
A victory on this issue would actually do more for national recoprocity than any other effort will achieve.
Any takers? Should not cost more than around $25,00 - $50,000 (retail) and you will get your money back if you win, which is a strong liklihood. Try to find a SC lawyeer who will cut you a break on your terms as she can collect at ratail rate from DC if she wins.
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M&P.40
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 12:24 am |
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Lets try to take donations to see how many and how bad S.Carolinians want this.
edited:my bad i misread the above post yeah sue them..
Last edited on Mon Sep 8th, 2008 04:00 am by M&P.40
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Doug Huffman
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 12:52 pm |
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First our ex-patriate Floridian must establish standing.
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1swellguy
Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 02:25 pm |
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Doug Huffman wrote: Pinging 1swellguy, XO at GRSC...e-mail sent.
This is a "concealed" carry issue, not an OC issue, right?
GrassRoots GunRights of SC worked very hard to get the original version of H. 3212 passed last session. We have been assured by its author (Rep Gregg Delleney) that the same clean, full recognition bill will be re-introduced next session (January) and they will try again to pass it. Last session, the bill passed with a large margin in the SC House only to be blocked by a few state Senators until they could amend it to be virtually worthless (with collaboration & backing from the local NRA reps). [See the video on our website at http://www.SCFirearms.org ] GrassRoots will continue to support the clean recognition bill next year.
I'm surprised that VA is taking this action, since SC law has not changed regarding our CWP verification system. As I understand it, what we now have is the same thing we had when VA decided to recognize SC permits. An SC CWP permit is STILL good as an "instant check" when purchasing a firearm. The only change I see here is the perception VA has/had regarding our instant check system.
It could be that someone at SLED is hoping to bring up any technicality possible which would help curtail reciprocity/recognition, but the truth is we just don't know.
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WVCDL
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 06:59 pm |
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1swellguy wrote: Doug Huffman wrote: Pinging 1swellguy, XO at GRSC...e-mail sent.
This is a "concealed" carry issue, not an OC issue, right?
GrassRoots GunRights of SC worked very hard to get the original version of H. 3212 passed last session. We have been assured by its author (Rep Gregg Delleney) that the same clean, full recognition bill will be re-introduced next session (January) and they will try again to pass it. Last session, the bill passed with a large margin in the SC House only to be blocked by a few state Senators until they could amend it to be virtually worthless (with collaboration & backing from the local NRA reps). [See the video on our website at http://www.SCFirearms.org ] GrassRoots will continue to support the clean recognition bill next year.
I'm surprised that VA is taking this action, since SC law has not changed regarding our CWP verification system. As I understand it, what we now have is the same thing we had when VA decided to recognize SC permits. An SC CWP permit is STILL good as an "instant check" when purchasing a firearm. The only change I see here is the perception VA has/had regarding our instant check system.
It could be that someone at SLED is hoping to bring up any technicality possible which would help curtail reciprocity/recognition, but the truth is we just don't know.
Actually, our laws have nothing to do with whether a particular state's permits qualify as a Permanent Brady Alternative--for which neither VA nor WV qualifies.
Va. Code § 18.2-308(P) and W.Va. Code § 61-7-6a(d)(2) require reciprocal/recognized states to be able to instantly verify the validity of a permit 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. This means, for example, that SLED would need to provide some means by which VA and WV law-enforcement officers could contact SLED 24/7 and be able to instantly determine whether a SC CWP is a valid permit (i.e., that it is a legitimate permit issued to the purported permittee and that it has not been cancelled, suspended, or revoked).
As I indicated in a prior post above, there have been efforts in both VA and WV to eliminate this hurdle to reciprocity with many states. I also maintain that SLED probably can provide adequate verification but is now playing games because they're looking for a reason to deny WV reciprocity that they can pin on us and then tell the SC General Assembly they tried their best and that we have tied SLED's hands. I promise that we will call them on this by bolstering our own efforts to pass a universal recognition bill here in West Virginia and end this shell game.
Last edited on Mon Sep 8th, 2008 07:02 pm by WVCDL
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340mopar
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 03:50 pm |
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WVCDL wrote: PT111 wrote: Ironic thing is that if the original universal recognition bill had passed it would make no difference for SC residents as it had nothing to do with a 24/7 verification process.
I think SLED once did provide 24/7 verification at a time when SC law did not permit the establishment of reciprocity with VA and WV and conveniently decided to stop offering it since SC's reciprocity law changed. They continue to screw with us and merely pulled this rabbit from the hat, which also gives them the luxury of externalizing the blame and telling the SC General Assembly that it's not their fault this time.
I would bet anything that if SC had a universal recognition law (such as the House version of H 3212) and needed to meet the VA and WV 24/7 verification requirements to get SC CWPs recognized here, they would not need much time to do so. All it takes is having someone man the phone at SLED HQ CWP Section 24/7 and providing that phone number to the VA State Police and WV State Police--that's it!
All SLED has done is give me and PVC the extra ammo we need to finally get our respective legislatures to stop this shell game by dropping our own conditional reciprocity laws in favor of universal recognition (see 2007 VA HB 2235 2008 WV SB 228 and HB 4683). I wish my SC counterparts luck on similar legislation, since I know that the new SC reciprocity law still does not allow reciprocity with GA, AL, MS, and many other states that are willing to establish reciprocity with anyone and everyone.
Based on another Site, SC Grass roots (Bill) has been in touch with VA and SLED. this seams to have been a missunderstanding. SLED does have the system, and VA will be verifying (hopefully coming on boad with us soon)
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Doug Huffman
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 03:55 pm |
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340mopar wrote:Based on another Site, SC Grass roots (Bill) has been in touch with VA and SLED. this seams to have been a missunderstanding. SLED does have the system, and VA will be verifying (hopefully coming on boad with us soon)
Link please. I visit http://www.scfirearms.org frequently and had not noticed what you report.
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WVCDL
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:25 pm |
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340mopar wrote: Based on another Site, SC Grass roots (Bill) has been in touch with VA and SLED. this seams to have been a missunderstanding. SLED does have the system, and VA will be verifying (hopefully coming on boad with us soon)
I am also pleased to say that things are still on track for a SC-WV reciprocity agreement. West Virginia Deputy AG Tom Smith e-mailed me this morning and confirmed that South Carolina meets West Virginia's 24/7 verification requirement, that SLED has proposed appropriate language on this issue in the current draft reciprocity agreement, and that the only remaining hurdle is ironing out some legalese in the agreement to conform to some technical requirements of West Virginia law.  Last edited on Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:35 pm by WVCDL
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340mopar
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:34 pm |
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The Latest on Virginia from SC Grass Roots :
Ok, here is the straight scoop so far.
VCDL sent out an alert that VA dropped recognition of SC permits
because VA claimed SC doesn't have a 24/7 system of permit verification.
I called SLED Regulatory and they said we DO have a 24/7 system of
permit verification.
I emailed the VA state police (and CC'd VCDL) to let them know SLED
Regulatory says SC does in fact have such a system.
I received this reply from Tom Lambert of VSP:
-----------------------------------
Dear Mr. Rentiers:
Thank you for your email. The original information regarding 24/7
verification was provided by both Capt Drakeford of SLED Regulatory
and by message from the SC Communication center. Based on your contact
we have re-contacted Capt Drakeford at SLED who indicated that they
may have been mistaken in their initial response and will verify the
availability for 24/7 verification shortly. I will contact you with
their response.
Tom Lambert
-----------------------------------
Hopefully this means we will at least get VA Recognition back, and
perhaps even full Reciprocity.
We are now left to wonder why/how SLED gave out erroneous information
to Virginia officials in the first place. Capt Drakeford is the person
replacing Capt Cliff Weir at Regulatory who retired recently.
Bill
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1swellguy
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 05:12 pm |
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340mopar wrote: Dear Mr. Rentiers:
Thank you for your email. The original information regarding 24/7
verification was provided by both Capt Drakeford of SLED Regulatory
and by message from the SC Communication center. Based on your contact
we have re-contacted Capt Drakeford at SLED who indicated that they
may have been mistaken in their initial response and will verify the
availability for 24/7 verification shortly. I will contact you with
their response.
Tom Lambert
Wow. You guys repost my stuff here faster than I can do it myself. I need guys like y'all on my staff! 
Bill
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340mopar
Member
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Posted: Wed Sep 10th, 2008 03:44 pm |
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Only thing faster is a lie..
LOL
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340mopar
Member
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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 09:06 pm |
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| Still no word from VA?!
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