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tcox4freedom
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 13th, 2009 07:29 pm |
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This is my 1st post- Great site!
I live in Florence and hope this bill passes. I'm still waiting on SLED to approve my CCP and hope it becomes legal to OC.
I remember back in the seventies; I open carried "gunslinger" style in N. MS and rural TN. There never were any problems.
I just don't get some of the arguments that OC makes you more of a target. My family ran a small country store. OC allowed people to realize there were always at least 4 people they'd have to fight if robbery or assault was on their mind.
NOTHING ever happened until we needed to carry concealed. Then some BG's tried to rob the place- they were shot (not dead unfortunately). However, we were considered the bad guys. The now democrat controlled local politicians including the sherrif arrested my aunt and uncle.
All I can say is thank God for right to jury!
I'm convinced if we were allowed to OC, the attemped robbery would never of happened. BTW; another robbery was never attempted- the store was sold last year.
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AllAmerican
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Feb 14th, 2009 05:18 pm |
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| Welcome to the forum. Im just to the northwest of you.
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tcox4freedom
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 09:57 pm |
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Thanks for the welcome.
I'm new to all this legal and activist stuff! However, I think it's time we do like the NRA and other gun rights organizations have been telling us to do for decades get involved, stay involved and hold lawmakers accountable.
It's good to know I'm not alone in belief OC should be legal.
Tim
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tcox4freedom
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 16th, 2009 06:24 pm |
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AllAmerican wrote: Welcome to the forum. Im just to the northwest of you.
Maybe we can meet a Bill BBQ for lunch sometime? No, scatch that ANYTIME!
Tim
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AllAmerican
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 07:18 pm |
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tcox4freedom wrote: AllAmerican wrote: Welcome to the forum. Im just to the northwest of you.
Maybe we can meet a Bill BBQ for lunch sometime? No, scatch that ANYTIME!
Tim
Hmmmm BBQ!
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carryall
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 08:36 pm |
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I have written everyone of my state representatives in my district asking them to support or otherwise explain their stance on the legislation and after 2 months the only respondent has been Alan D. Clemmons of Myrtle Beach. No others have bothered to respond to my inquiry. Mr. Clemmons indicated his support of the pending legislation. To all other in my district, shame on your lack of response. I will respond more actively each and every November.
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Robert Butler
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 11:10 pm |
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Robert Butler wrote: Mike wrote: I understand your concerns, and agree with most of the analysis in the link above, but disagree with the conclusion that under H. 3003, "gun owners give up something (i.e., vehicle carry for CWP holders[)]."
I just received a phone call from Rep. Mac Toole regarding H. 3003.
Rep. Toole stated he had received the letter from GrassRoots detailing the problems with H. 3003. Rep. Toole wanted to know what we wanted him to do with regards to H. 3003.
I told Rep. Toole he should submit the letter to the General Assembly's staff attorneys to verify that what GrassRoots said about H. 3003 was correct before going any further. Rep. Toole stated he had already done so and that the GrassRoots analysis of H. 3003 was correct.
I told Rep. Toole we would like to see H. 3003 fixed and then passed. But, we would rather see H. 3003 die than have it passed in its present form because we did not feel that we should have to give up any of our gun rights in order to get a different gun right in return.
Rep. Toole stated he signed on to H. 3003 to show his support for our gun rights. But, before he would be part of giving away any of our gun rights, he would withdraw his name as a co-sponsor. So, Rep. Toole will be withdrawing his name as a co-sponsor until the bill gets fixed.
We doubt H. 3003 will get fixed because there are more important issues facing the General Assembly than trying to fix a bill that will not pass even if fixed.
Rob
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carryall
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 11:16 pm |
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Hello,
Please help me understand the problems with this bill as I am only an ordinary citzen and not a lawyer.
Resepctfully submitted,
carryall
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hp-hobo
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 12:01 am |
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carryall wrote: Hello,
Please help me understand the problems with this bill as I am only an ordinary citzen and not a lawyer.
Resepctfully submitted,
carryall
This should help you to understand where it's at (H. 3003) and where GrassRoots feels it needs to be.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess118_2009-2010/bills/3003.htm
http://scfirearms.org/Legislative/H3003.html
http://www.scfirearms.org/
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carryall
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 12:54 pm |
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Thank you for the information. I now understand how something so simple can be made so unnecessarily complex . Last edited on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 12:55 pm by carryall
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Robert Butler
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 01:40 pm |
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carryall wrote: Thank you for the information. I now understand how something so simple can be made so unnecessarily complex.
All they needed to do was repeal Section 16-23-20 and Section 16-23-460. Then, we would have Alaska carry, i.e., no permit needed to carry either openly or concealed in SC and a concealed weapon permit available for reciprocity when needing to carry in other states.
I would suggest you join GrassRoots GunRights SC. Then, you would be able to stay on top of these issues and help us get pro gun legislation enacted into law, defeat anti gun legislation, and fix poorly drafted legislation.
Rob
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tcox4freedom
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 03:28 pm |
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Here's my two cents-
I believe there is nothing wrong with requiring a permit for CC. (I DO NOT want potential bad guys to be able to carry legally!) Being able to check on permit to carry concealed has led to the arrest of MANY a bad guy!
I also believe it should be completely legal to OC "without" a permit. Other states have these types of OC and CC laws on the books and it works fine.
So if you ask me; (nobody has; BUT should!)- If I desire to carry concealed "sometimes" as NOT to draw attention to myself, then a permit should be required.
If I want to OC (which I will do MOST of the time); NO permit should be required; PERIOD!
But alas; here's the rub. Right now; it is currently legal to CC in the glovebox or consol of my vehicle "without" a permit. Correct?
However, the OC bill as it stands if passed will make it "illegal" to carry in my vehicle without a CWP. Also Correct? (NOT GOOD!)
So? Why can't we word a bill that will uphold a persons legal right to safely secure his/her handgun in the glovebox or consol of the vehicle. (That law ALREADY exist!)
It seems to me that's all that needs to be done!
It also seems to me, some people want to do away entirely with current CC requirements. IMO; THIS is over reaching!
I believe my feelings are the same as most people. (At least in my circle of influence)
I certainly do NOT want some arrogant ass**** destroying the progress that has already been made!
To win WARS, one must pick his battles carfefully!
IMO; it is WRONG to be demanding that the entire CWP laws be abolished in order to make it legal to OC.
Those that have this ALL or NOTHING agenda, have a gross mis-understanding of people and politics. Get over it and STOP being SELF absorbed! You do NOT speak for me!
It is these type of people that SUBSTANCIALLY increase the risk of losing popular support of gun owners that do NOT desire to carry. NOT to mention NON gun owners who currently SUPPORT gun rights!
Last edited on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 03:38 pm by tcox4freedom
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hp-hobo
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 05:20 pm |
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tcox4freedom wrote: ...But alas; here's the rub. Right now; it is currently legal to CC in the glovebox or consol of my vehicle "without" a permit. Correct?...
I'll let Rob respond to the rest of your post because it seems as though it's mostly directed at him.
As to the above statement/question. In the state of South Carolina, if you are lawfully allowed to own a firearm (obviously handgun in this case), you can carry a loaded weapon in your vehicle as long as it is in a glove box or center console that is closed. There is no requirement for a lock, latch or permit.
"16-23-20 (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver’s license, registration, or proof of insurance;"
http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1.aspx?MenuID=CWP#1
I think most of the anger you displayed in your post is because of your own misunderstanding of the current and proposed laws. Have a nice day.
Carry on.
Last edited on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 05:21 pm by hp-hobo
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Robert Butler
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 05:33 pm |
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tcox4freedom wrote: (I DO NOT want potential bad guys to be able to carry legally!)
EVERYONE is a "potential" bad guy, including you.
Rob
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Robert Butler
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 05:45 pm |
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tcox4freedom wrote: It also seems to me, some people want to do away entirely with current CC requirements. IMO; THIS is over reaching!
I guess it all comes down to whether one believes "the right to keep and bear arms" is truly a right or just a privilege.
One does not need a permit to exercise a God given or natural right, only to exercise a privilege granted by government.
Unfortunately, those who believe there is no right to keep and bear arms seem to be in the majority.
Rob
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tcox4freedom
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 05:48 pm |
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Robert Butler wrote: tcox4freedom wrote: (I DO NOT want potential bad guys to be able to carry legally!)
EVERYONE is a "potential" bad guy, including you.
Rob
Please Explain Yourself!
You Don't know me well enough to make that statement.
If your such a great lawyer, you must realize you have just publically defamed my character!
Last edited on Thu Mar 5th, 2009 05:52 pm by tcox4freedom
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Robert Butler
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 06:03 pm |
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tcox4freedom wrote: Robert Butler wrote: tcox4freedom wrote: (I DO NOT want potential bad guys to be able to carry legally!)
EVERYONE is a "potential" bad guy, including you.
Rob
Please Explain Yourself!
You Don't know me well enough to make that statement.
If your such a great lawyer, you must realize you have just publically defamed my character!
Look up the word "potential" in the dictionary. I do not need to know you or anyone else to know that EVERYONE has the "potential" to do something bad.
If you think you have been publicly defamed simply because I stated a truism, then sue me.
Rob
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Robert Butler
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 06:06 pm |
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Robert Butler wrote: Rep. Toole stated he signed on to H. 3003 to show his support for our gun rights. But, before he would be part of giving away any of our gun rights, he would withdraw his name as a co-sponsor. So, Rep. Toole will be withdrawing his name as a co-sponsor until the bill gets fixed.
Rep. Toole has officially removed his name as a co-sponsor of H. 3003.
Rob
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tcox4freedom
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 06:09 pm |
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Robert Butler wrote: tcox4freedom wrote: It also seems to me, some people want to do away entirely with current CC requirements. IMO; THIS is over reaching!
I guess it all comes down to whether one believes "the right to keep and bear arms" is truly a right or just a privilege.
One does not need a permit to exercise a God given or natural right, only to exercise a privilege granted by government.
Unfortunately, those who believe there is no right to keep and bear arms seem to be in the majority.
Rob
I am in complete agreement with the 2nd ammendment. If you read my previous post, I say I am for OC without any regard to permit.
BG's usually do NOT OC! Therefore, I think we need some type of law when it comes to CC. Bad guys always try to conceal their intentions until they commit a crime.
The truth is CC laws have prevented crime as well as OC laws.
I am in favor of OC; solely because I DO believe in the second ammendment!
It is not some kind of macho thing with me; as it seems to be with others. It is entirely a Constitutional "Rights" issue.
For someone to accuse another of not being for the "right to bear arms" is another inflamatory and slanderous statement; made in a public forum!
Again; YOU DO NOT KNOW ME WELL ENOUGH!
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tcox4freedom
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 5th, 2009 06:19 pm |
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Robert Butler wrote: tcox4freedom wrote: Robert Butler wrote: tcox4freedom wrote: (I DO NOT want potential bad guys to be able to carry legally!)
EVERYONE is a "potential" bad guy, including you.
Rob
Please Explain Yourself!
You Don't know me well enough to make that statement.
If your such a great lawyer, you must realize you have just publically defamed my character!
Look up the word "potential" in the dictionary. I do not need to know you or anyone else to know that EVERYONE has the "potential" to do something bad.
If you think you have been publicly defamed simply because I stated a truism, then sue me.
Rob
If you keep defaming my character I might! BUT. That might be what you want?
I wonder if you are who you want us to believe you are. I think you are the type of person who secretely wants our gun rights to fail. I would even wager, you probably voted for Obama! JMHO
BYW; My attorneys are in Columbia. "Barry,Quackenbush and Stuart" is one of the firms I've used in the past.
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