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gunsfreak4791
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| Joined: | Fri Jun 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | Kearns, Utah USA |
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Posted: Sat May 16th, 2009 05:14 am |
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| Quick question just to throw out to the massess. As I understand you can carry a loaded firearm in your vechicle. What about school zones like the UofU. Sounds like you would need to have a CFP to validate the loaded firearm in your vechicle. Maybe a small loophole in Utah Law. Assuming the firearm never leaves the car.
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SGT Jensen
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Feb 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Santaquin, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 1956 |
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Posted: Sat May 16th, 2009 05:56 am |
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No loophole, it is lawful.
76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
(2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(3) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
(iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
(4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.
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rpyne
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Provo, Utah USA |
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Posted: Thu May 21st, 2009 03:50 pm |
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Do we have an updated pamphlet yet?
I'm not much of a writer, but I am pretty good with layout and editing if help is needed.
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blainenay
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 05:13 am |
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SGT Jensen wrote: No loophole, it is lawful.
76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).
(2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(3) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;
(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or
(iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).
(4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.
So this change in Utah law overrides federal restrictions agains guns in school zones for non-permit-holders? How so?
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SGT Jensen
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Feb 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Santaquin, Utah USA |
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Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 05:40 am |
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blainenay wrote: So this change in Utah law overrides federal restrictions agains guns in school zones for non-permit-holders? How so?
It doesn't. Just because something may be authorized by a State Law, doesn't mean that it negates a federal law.
Local cops do not enforce federal laws, and chances are they are not going to hold you there for the feds.
According to Utah Law, you may carry a handgun however you wish in your vehicle while in a school zone, regardless of your permit status.
According to federal law, you may carry a firearm however you wish in your vehicle while in a school zone, if you are licensed to do so by these state that the school is located in. SEE BLUE
But if you are lacking said permit, you must carry the firearm unloaded, and locked up. SEE RED
Besides, I don't see how driving around in your own state with a firearm could possibly affest interstate commerce. This is one of the federal laws most people don't worry about too much. And if you do get charged with it? Just get it overturned again at the Supreme Court! 
§ 922. — Unlawful acts.
(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm--
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a icense, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is--
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
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SGT Jensen
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Feb 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Santaquin, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 1956 |
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Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 05:48 am |
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One more thing. gunsfreak4791 was asking specifically about the U of U. Universities are not restricted under federal law.
18 U.S.C. defines "school" as K-12 schools. Utah just lumps in pretty much any place where you can receiva an education.
§ 921. — Definitions.
(25) The term ``school zone'' means--
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
(26) The term ``school'' means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
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rpyne
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Provo, Utah USA |
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Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 03:40 pm |
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Do we have an updated pamphlet yet? I would sure like to be able to hand out current information.
If help is needed getting it produced, I am willing to help. Does someone have the source file(s) for the old one?
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ProtectedBy9mm
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 11:54 pm |
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rpyne wrote: ...Does someone have the source file(s) for the old one?
http://www.thegreshams.net/ucc.com/Utah%20Gun%20Law.pdf
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rpyne
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Provo, Utah USA |
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Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 01:16 am |
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A pdf is not a source document, it is a final published document.
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SGT Jensen
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| Joined: | Sat Feb 24th, 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 05:49 am |
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rpyne wrote: A pdf is not a source document...
It can be.
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rpyne
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Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 11:20 pm |
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Okay folks, here is my first draft:
http://freeutah.org/docs/UtahGunLaw2009b1.pdf
Constructive input is invited.
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mqondo
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 26th, 2009 |
| Location: | SLC, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 119 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 01:26 am |
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rpyne wrote: Okay folks, here is my first draft:
http://freeutah.org/docs/UtahGunLaw2009b1.pdf
Constructive input is invited.
Well done. The only thing I caught on the first time I read it was on the middle section of the page with the picture of Utah on it. The part about the "use of force".
U.C.A. 76-2-402. Force in defense of person –
Forcible felony defined.
“(1) A person is justified inthreatening ...............
The part in red should be separated into two words. If I see anything else I'll let you know.
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rpyne
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 03:49 am |
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Here is round two:
http://freeutah.org/docs/UtahGunLaw2009b2.pdf
I fixed the missing space and also corrected references to "concealed weapons permit" to "concealed firearm permit" since that is what Utah issues.
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timf343
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 08:18 am |
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GREAT pamphlet. Easy to read and understand. My next visit to Utah (3 weeks), I'll be much better prepared to be lawfully armed. Thanks!!!!
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SGT Jensen
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Feb 24th, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 01:05 pm |
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Here are my suggestions. You asked.
U.C.A. 76-10-500 Uniform Law
I would change this to U.C.A. 53-5a-102 Uniform firearm laws since this section is more detailed, and defines public schools as State entities.
Under U.C.A. 10-8-47, local governments can regulate the discharge of firearms.
I would edit this to read "Under U.C.A. 10-8-47, cities and towns may regulate the discharge of firearms." Local Governments to me would include Counties, and they do not have this authority.
So what is the definition of “loaded”? I'm glad you asked!
The "I'm glad you asked!" part seems a bit silly, but that is between you and ScottyT.
Nobody (even people with a permit) may carry a firearm, openly or concealed:
- In any secure facility (courthouse, prison, secure part of an airport, etc...)
- On some Federal property (post office, national parks, etc...)
You could include "LDS houses of Worship" here. Just for reference, 53-5-710 is where you can find places that are off limits.
Permit holders are exempt from several other firearms laws (see U.C.A. 76-10-523).
I not sure that "several" is the right word. The only other 2 laws are "school zones" and "loaded on streets". Since the loaded restriction is already covered in the pamphlet, maybe you could add a small section that explains permit holders are exempt from 76-10-505.5 "school zones". Maybe it coud read like this:
U.C.A 76-10-504 Carrying concealed dangerous weapon
ONLY individuals who hold a valid Concealed Firearm Permit or Law Enforcement Officers may legally conceal a firearm or dangerous weapon (no sawed-off shotguns or rifles though).
U.C.A. 76-10-505.5 Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises
ONLY individuals who hold a valid Concealed Firearm Permit or Law Enforcement Officers may legally possess a firearm within 1000 feet of a school.
Utah is known as a “shall-issue” state, meaning that concealed firearm permits must be issued to anyone who is over the age of 21, ...
I would change the word "anyone" to "an applicant".
For more information about obtaining a Concealed Firearm Permit, visit the Bureau of Criminal Identification website at http://bci.utah.gov/
The website has been changed to http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/
OTHER RESOURCES:
WEB: http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com
http://www.opencarry.org
http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/code.htm
bci.utah.gov
The Utah Code link has changed to http://www.le.utah.gov/UtahCode/title.jsp and the redundant bci.utah.gov could be removed to save space.
If you have room to spare, you could add http://www.goutahorg.org/ and http://utahshootingsports.com/
On the second page, the link to the Utah Code in the gray box could be changed. Other than that the second page looks good.
(Except for the fact that the map is missing the silhouette of the Utah Lake.)
Last edited on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 01:23 pm by SGT Jensen
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rpyne
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 03:47 pm |
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Here is round three:
http://freeutah.org/docs/UtahGunLaw2009b3.pdf
As much as I hated to do it, I had to completely eliminate the page on the Right to Bear Arms in order to make all of the additional material fit without needing a microscope to read it.
I do agree with the need for more and accurate information. I have been trying to figure out how to squeeze in the stuff about parking lots from SB78.
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SGT Jensen
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Feb 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Santaquin, Utah USA |
| Posts: | 1956 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 03:55 pm |
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Looking good, Mr. Pyne! 
I like how you keep the older versions available. That way people have a choice in pamphlet.
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mqondo
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 26th, 2009 |
| Location: | SLC, Utah USA |
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 11:29 pm |
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Thanks for all your hard work rpyne. The pamphlet looks good.
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ScottyT
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 03:23 pm |
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I do have the new version of Utah Gun Law (pamphlet) ready to go. Who can I email it to so it can be hosted and linked?
Sorry I have been such a slacker, life has been interesting to say the least these past few months.
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SGT Jensen
State Researcher
| Joined: | Sat Feb 24th, 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 06:04 pm |
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ScottyT wrote: Sorry I have been such a slacker, life has been interesting to say the least these past few months.
Feel free to share. 
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