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CJ
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | VT, AK |
| Posts: | 59 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 03:57 pm |
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Well I'm usually a lurker here and not a poster, but this is something I think should be known: I was open carrying today in Rutland City this morning, just on a walk to my community garden plot. On the way there, a police cruiser pulls up, and two police approach me. They questioned me about my gun (is it loaded, why are you carrying it, etc.). They claimed to have gotten a call from a person who had driven by and had seen my gun, but they couldn't identify this person by name. Another cop pulled up shortly also BTW but he didn't say anything. They checked the gun's serial number to see if it was stolen. One of the cops before leaving lectured me and here is where it really bothered me: he said it may be your right to carry it, but if you continue doing so, we'll be stopping you a lot. He said to me that I must be seeking attention or something (I said no, it's pointless to bother concealing the gun in hot weather wearing light clothing). He said there used to be a city ordinance against it. I said yes, the courts struck it down in 1903, and in the mid 1990's it was removed again under threat of another suit, and I will also pursue legal action if I am repeatedly stopped and hassled in the future. He said "is it worth it?".
Needless to say, his lecturing did not have the effect intended by him, and I will continue open carrying the rest of the summer (I conceal carry in the winter when I have a coat on with large pockets...).
So...Rutland is at it again...
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 04:01 pm |
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CJ wrote: Well I'm usually a lurker here and not a poster, but this is something I think should be known: I was open carrying today in Rutland City this morning, just on a walk to my community garden plot. On the way there, a police cruiser pulls up, and two police approach me. They questioned me about my gun (is it loaded, why are you carrying it, etc.). They claimed to have gotten a call from a person who had driven by and had seen my gun, but they couldn't identify this person by name. Another cop pulled up shortly also BTW but he didn't say anything. They checked the gun's serial number to see if it was stolen. One of the cops before leaving lectured me and here is where it really bothered me: he said it may be your right to carry it, but if you continue doing so, we'll be stopping you a lot. He said to me that I must be seeking attention or something (I said no, it's pointless to bother concealing the gun in hot weather wearing light clothing). He said there used to be a city ordinance against it. I said yes, the courts struck it down in 1903, and in the mid 1990's it was removed again under threat of another suit, and I will also pursue legal action if I am repeatedly stopped and hassled in the future. He said "is it worth it?".
Needless to say, his lecturing did not have the effect intended by him, and I will continue open carrying the rest of the summer (I conceal carry in the winter when I have a coat on with large pockets...).
So...Rutland is at it again...
Do you consensually turn over the gun top the police? if not, you need to make a complaint. it does not sound like they had reasonable suspicion for a non-consensual encounter.
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CJ
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | VT, AK |
| Posts: | 59 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 04:05 pm |
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Mike wrote: CJ wrote: Well I'm usually a lurker here and not a poster, but this is something I think should be known: I was open carrying today in Rutland City this morning, just on a walk to my community garden plot. On the way there, a police cruiser pulls up, and two police approach me. They questioned me about my gun (is it loaded, why are you carrying it, etc.). They claimed to have gotten a call from a person who had driven by and had seen my gun, but they couldn't identify this person by name. Another cop pulled up shortly also BTW but he didn't say anything. They checked the gun's serial number to see if it was stolen. One of the cops before leaving lectured me and here is where it really bothered me: he said it may be your right to carry it, but if you continue doing so, we'll be stopping you a lot. He said to me that I must be seeking attention or something (I said no, it's pointless to bother concealing the gun in hot weather wearing light clothing). He said there used to be a city ordinance against it. I said yes, the courts struck it down in 1903, and in the mid 1990's it was removed again under threat of another suit, and I will also pursue legal action if I am repeatedly stopped and hassled in the future. He said "is it worth it?".
Needless to say, his lecturing did not have the effect intended by him, and I will continue open carrying the rest of the summer (I conceal carry in the winter when I have a coat on with large pockets...).
So...Rutland is at it again...
Do you consensually turn over the gun top the police? if not, you need to make a complaint. it does not sound like they had reasonable suspicion for a non-consensual encounter. Yes and no. The officer rather sternly said "I need to..." when that part happened, implying as though it were required. It would appear though I was under no obligation to do so, but I was uncertain at the time.
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Decoligny
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 04:08 pm |
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| If through use of "authoratative voice" he made you feel as though you were required to comply, then it was a siezure, and it was a blatant violation of your 4th Amendment Rights. File a complaint immediately.
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glockrocker
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 4th, 2008 07:39 pm |
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| Yikes...I'm sorry to hear that. I haven't had many problems in Burlington (just a soccer mom and a manager). I agree with Decoligny, complaint is the way to go.
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CJ
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | VT, AK |
| Posts: | 59 |
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Posted: Thu Jun 5th, 2008 01:43 pm |
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| I'm in the process of filing a complaint. I'll see what comes of that and go from there if needed...
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katwoman
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| Joined: | Sun Dec 14th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 1 |
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Posted: Sun Dec 14th, 2008 05:25 pm |
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| Rutland is a little different than the rest of Vermont because the NYC, CT and M@#$% criminals come up there to deal drugs. Add to this the huge number of tourists who come up for the skiing and you have a situation that gives rise to this type of stuff. I never OC in Rutland City for this reason; although I think by not doing so I doing myself and all Vermonters a disservice. Perhaps a few high profile OC meet ups will help. The more Vermonters who make it a point to OC in downtown Rutland the better for us and worse for the criminals who are causing the cops to bug us. As one of the states in which the public and politicians have shown respect for the second amendment we cannot allow it to be usurped by the actions of a police force that is failing to control the behavior of out of state criminals.
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unarmed in westchester
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 17th, 2008 10:00 pm |
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Katwoman, i agree 100%! I visit VT quite often, as my in-laws live in Rutland County. Needless to say, i spend a bit of time in Rutland City. Of all the places i visit in Vt, Rutland City is the one place i'd absolutely want to be carrying!
Its a damn shame to see a City such as Rutland falling prey to the criminal world as they are. Just read some of the police blotters from time to time. I'd say the majority of drug, gun and violent offenders there are not from Vt, but transplants as katwoman has stated. You find a number of them from Brooklyn (and other NYC boroughs), New Jersey and parts of Conn. They come to Rutland to conduct their illicit business and it sucks for all the law abiding citizens there.
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lancejack
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| Joined: | Tue Jan 20th, 2009 |
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Posted: Tue Jan 20th, 2009 01:43 pm |
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it seems the city of rutland has still not gotten the word, even after just over a hundred years. they lost a case in the vermont supreme court back in 1903 when they passed a city ordinance to require a "pistol permit" from the town or county sheriff to carry a pistol or revolver. the state supreme court struck it down citing article 16 of our state constution which cites a right of citizens to keep and bear arms "in defense of themselves and the state" thus recognising an individual right as well as a duty to the state. more recently, i believe back in the '60s the state legislature passed, and the then governor signed a law preempting the field of firearms legislation to the state except in narrowly defined areas such as establishing safety zones in settled areas.
"lancejack"
(n.b.: standard "i am not a lawyer" disclaimer applies.)
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vermonter
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 5th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 213 |
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Posted: Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 07:07 am |
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I hear you guys about Rutland PD. Just keep OC'ing and don't make a fuss. They can't arrest you for it. If it becomes a media issue like "Soccer Mom" or the "Dickson Dozen" in PA "No Guns" signs will start popping up everywhere. The last thing I would like to see is issues here where none exist. Deal with each officer as problems arise. Call the chief and ask him if you were doing anything illegal by carrying if you are harrassed. Just be polite, MOST (not all) Vermont cops are good guys and gals. Like the poster said the problem cops are the ones are the ones from MA and NJ. I don't OC in B'Town b/c I don't want the 100's of gang bangers knowing it is legal. If they start strapping in public b/c it is legal you can bet there will be enough uproar to push for some sort of regulation. Never assume any law or right is written in stone, especially with all the "Gaye Symington's" taking over the legislature. I'm not saying don't OC, just the one or two problems can be handled individually rather than an organized "march". In PA it has backfired (soccer mom incident) with a lot of the public looking at us like idiots IMHO! It's like anything else there is a time and place. If I go to a place with a lot of liberals I quietly CCW. When I am in Eden in the summer I OC. In B'town I mostly CCW. One thing I learned about the far left liberals, you will NEVER "educate" them. They thought Ron Paul was a right winger, he wanted to end the war more than "their" left wing candidates!
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