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Alex
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 02:54 am |
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I moved to VT a few months ago, I just recently started to OC around my town and so far... No problems. Feels a little odd at first walking into stores but nobody says anything.  Is there any laws into going into any stores in VT or are you free to do so in any store? BTW, This is my first post on the site, Lots of good info!!! 
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jay75009
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 6th, 2009 |
| Location: | Saco, Maine USA |
| Posts: | 311 |
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Offline
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Posted: Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 06:25 am |
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no laws about stores. licensed liqour establishments are illegal due to federal law. the way i look at it when im in VT is.......if there is no "no guns" sign on the door odds are you will not have an issue unless the manager comes forth with one.
just a heads up though. Burlington PD is good with OC but some of the........Sketchey citizens you may try to keep an eye on while OC'ing. I had one try to grab my pistol last weekend on a day trip.
But i've never had a problem with stores in vermont. even the walmart in springfield. just use common sense and look out for the "gun free zone" signs and you should be great.
Welcome to the site :-)
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Alex
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 04:47 pm |
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Hey thanks, Im not really too close to burlington, im about 10 mins from killington/30 from rutland. And all I have been doing is OCing local latley.  Like I said so far... So good... Noone has questioned anything. Feels nice. haha.
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SIGguy229
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 04:56 pm |
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jay75009 wrote: no laws about stores. licensed liqour establishments are illegal due to federal law.
Ummm....which FEDERAL law are you referring to?? I know of no such law....there might be a STATE law prohibiting OC/CC (accordingly)....please clarify.
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jay75009
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 6th, 2009 |
| Location: | Saco, Maine USA |
| Posts: | 311 |
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Offline
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Posted: Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 06:05 pm |
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SIGguy229 wrote: jay75009 wrote: no laws about stores. licensed liqour establishments are illegal due to federal law.
Ummm....which FEDERAL law are you referring to?? I know of no such law....there might be a STATE law prohibiting OC/CC (accordingly)....please clarify.
your right, i was thinking of an ATF law but that is state by state.........i actually cannot find anything to cite for Vermont law concerning liqour establishments. but i will have my lawyer check into it for exact clarification on the state of vermont.
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Alex
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 09:20 pm |
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Thanks for the good info guys! 
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Grapeshot
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 4th, 2009 02:38 am |
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jay75009 wrote: SIGguy229 wrote: jay75009 wrote: no laws about stores. licensed liqour establishments are illegal due to federal law.
Ummm....which FEDERAL law are you referring to?? I know of no such law....there might be a STATE law prohibiting OC/CC (accordingly)....please clarify.
your right, i was thinking of an ATF law but that is state by state.........i actually cannot find anything to cite for Vermont law concerning liqour establishments. but i will have my lawyer check into it for exact clarification on the state of vermont.
Cite please on ATF law, curious as to claimed selective enforcement.
BTW - there is no federal statute prohibiting OC or CC in establishments licensed to sell alcohol.
The responsible approach is to cite to source when making such statements. It is a violation of decorum to do otherwise, unless such is widely accepted as common knowledge.
Yata hey
Last edited on Fri Dec 4th, 2009 02:40 am by Grapeshot
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protias
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 16th, 2009 08:25 pm |
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jay75009 wrote: SIGguy229 wrote: jay75009 wrote: no laws about stores. licensed liqour establishments are illegal due to federal law.
Ummm....which FEDERAL law are you referring to?? I know of no such law....there might be a STATE law prohibiting OC/CC (accordingly)....please clarify.
your right, i was thinking of an ATF law but that is state by state.........i actually cannot find anything to cite for Vermont law concerning liqour establishments. but i will have my lawyer check into it for exact clarification on the state of vermont.
I was going to say that. I can carry into places that sell alcohol, just can't go in armed to any place that I can consume it.
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Grapeshot
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 16th, 2009 09:10 pm |
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protias wrote: jay75009 wrote: SIGguy229 wrote: jay75009 wrote: no laws about stores. licensed liqour establishments are illegal due to federal law.
Ummm....which FEDERAL law are you referring to?? I know of no such law....there might be a STATE law prohibiting OC/CC (accordingly)....please clarify.
your right, i was thinking of an ATF law but that is state by state.........i actually cannot find anything to cite for Vermont law concerning liqour establishments. but i will have my lawyer check into it for exact clarification on the state of vermont.
I was going to say that. I can carry into places that sell alcohol, just can't go in armed to any place that I can consume it.
Your situation Protias is governed by your state law though, not federal.
Guess Jay75009 is still waiting for his attorney to respond. 
What I have found is that there appears to be no reference in the code; however,
22 other states (Alabama, California, Colorado Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, , Idaho, Iowa Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Hampshire, New York, Nevada, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia) have no express permission or express prohibition statutes related to carrying a gun where alcohol is served.
http://www.drslawfirm.com/gunsinbars.html
Yata hey
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protias
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Dec 16th, 2009 10:02 pm |
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Grapeshot wrote:
Your situation Protias is governed by your state law though, not federal.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. It is by state law I cannot carry into places that serve alcohol for consumption, not federal.
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vermonter
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 219 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Thu Dec 24th, 2009 02:20 pm |
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It is best not to OC in Burlington for another reason.... The entire Old North End has turned into gangland. Here is an example from Leicester, a tiny little town between Brandon and Middlebury: http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=9063405 This is the norm in Burlington. My logic for not OC in Burlington is that: 1) The cops are afraid to profile due to Mayor Liberal Kiss"ass". 2) We have hard core bangers from MA, NY, and NJ who know they can do just abour anything with immunity. 3) We have criminals (terrorists) from Somalia who have also taken over Burlington and Winooski. 4) I don't want any of them to know OC is legal. All we need is bangers to start OC'ing to get the scared liberals from MA/NJ to call for changes in the gun laws. 5) They are getting so brazen in Burlington that they travel in packs and will think noting of trying to grab a gun (if they know you have one). I CCW and keep my 1911 crossdraw so I can get to it quickly from my open jacket. Discretion and accessibility is of paramount importance in Burlington where you can get jumped at any time for no reason. Do not come to Burlington without a concealed handgun for self-defense! Look at all the people in Subaru's/Volvo's from MA, NY and NJ and thank them for bringing their big city problems with them! they are the same people who want to change the gun laws in Vermont to make it "safer"......
Here are some more examples, these are not isolated incidents..... It is daily life here:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/27/us/a-taste-of-urban-violence-sours-a-quiet-town-s-sense-of-security.html?pagewanted=1
http://burlingtonvt.org/society-and-culture/alternate-lifestyles/sexual-abuse-and-crimes/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-07-17-1300423405_x.htm
Last edited on Thu Dec 24th, 2009 02:23 pm by vermonter
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Grapeshot
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Dec 24th, 2009 03:14 pm |
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So don't OC there because it might be snatched, or you be preemptively dealt with, or criminals might start OCing - about right?
A fear really would seem to be a terrible thing to waste. 
BTW - If I think a place is really that bad (i.e. guaranteed to find trouble) I just don't go there.
Yata hey
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Grapeshot
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 25th, 2009 12:58 am |
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vermonter wrote: It is best not to OC in Burlington for another reason.... The entire Old North End has turned into gangland. Here is an example from Leicester, a tiny little town between Brandon and Middlebury: http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=9063405 This is the norm in Burlington. My logic for not OC in Burlington is that: 1) The cops are afraid to profile due to Mayor Liberal Kiss"ass". 2) We have hard core bangers from MA, NY, and NJ who know they can do just abour anything with immunity. 3) We have criminals (terrorists) from Somalia who have also taken over Burlington and Winooski. 4) I don't want any of them to know OC is legal. All we need is bangers to start OC'ing to get the scared liberals from MA/NJ to call for changes in the gun laws. 5) They are getting so brazen in Burlington that they travel in packs and will think noting of trying to grab a gun (if they know you have one). I CCW and keep my 1911 crossdraw so I can get to it quickly from my open jacket. Discretion and accessibility is of paramount importance in Burlington where you can get jumped at any time for no reason. Do not come to Burlington without a concealed handgun for self-defense! Look at all the people in Subaru's/Volvo's from MA, NY and NJ and thank them for bringing their big city problems with them! they are the same people who want to change the gun laws in Vermont to make it "safer"......
Here are some more examples, these are not isolated incidents..... It is daily life here:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/27/us/a-taste-of-urban-violence-sours-a-quiet-town-s-sense-of-security.html?pagewanted=1
http://burlingtonvt.org/society-and-culture/alternate-lifestyles/sexual-abuse-and-crimes/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-07-17-1300423405_x.htm
Crime: The number of violent crimes recorded by the FBI in 2003 was 140. The number of murders and homicides was 3. The violent crime rate was 3.5 per 1,000 people. Ranked No. 7 among small cities in the ePodunk College Town Index, 2002 Ranked No. 20 on the Best Places to Live and Work in America list, compiled by BestJobsUsa.com, 2002No. 6 on the "Best Cities for Women" list (small cities), Ladies' Home Journal, 2002
http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/genInfo.php?locIndex=25096
Almost all violent crimes and property crimes are at or well below the national average.
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Burl
Compare Burlington, Vt. to Charlottesville, Va.
Both are college towns and about the same population size.
Charlottesville has more murder and rape but less aggravated assault.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/19429103/2008-FBI-Crime-Statistics-Report-for-Vermont
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/data/table_08_va.html
What am I missing?
BTW - Your reference links are mostly old prior crimes.
Yata hey
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Alex
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Dec 25th, 2009 05:24 am |
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Hearing story's like this make me sick, all the good Vermonters need to stick together and keep this place as nice as it is now before it gets too late!
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PavePusher
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Apr 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Tucson, Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 760 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Sun Dec 27th, 2009 04:14 pm |
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vermonter wrote: It is best not to OC in Burlington for another reason.... The entire Old North End has turned into gangland. Here is an example from Leicester, a tiny little town between Brandon and Middlebury: http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=9063405 This is the norm in Burlington. My logic for not OC in Burlington is that: 1) The cops are afraid to profile due to Mayor Liberal Kiss"ass". 2) We have hard core bangers from MA, NY, and NJ who know they can do just abour anything with immunity. 3) We have criminals (terrorists) from Somalia who have also taken over Burlington and Winooski. 4) I don't want any of them to know OC is legal. All we need is bangers to start OC'ing to get the scared liberals from MA/NJ to call for changes in the gun laws. 5) They are getting so brazen in Burlington that they travel in packs and will think noting of trying to grab a gun (if they know you have one). I CCW and keep my 1911 crossdraw so I can get to it quickly from my open jacket. Discretion and accessibility is of paramount importance in Burlington where you can get jumped at any time for no reason. Do not come to Burlington without a concealed handgun for self-defense! Look at all the people in Subaru's/Volvo's from MA, NY and NJ and thank them for bringing their big city problems with them! they are the same people who want to change the gun laws in Vermont to make it "safer"......
Here are some more examples, these are not isolated incidents..... It is daily life here:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/27/us/a-taste-of-urban-violence-sours-a-quiet-town-s-sense-of-security.html?pagewanted=1
http://burlingtonvt.org/society-and-culture/alternate-lifestyles/sexual-abuse-and-crimes/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-07-17-1300423405_x.htm
I don't think the kind of car they drive has any bearing on the problem. Lots of local natives drive imports. (I do.) Find me an American compact station wagon with four-wheel drive, and some pretension of performance and good fuel milage, and superior crash protection, and I'll buy it.
Back on topic, so what if the "bangers" start to carry openly? That is their right, up until they violate the law. And remember, it makes them easier to spot. I don't really see it happening any time soon, such an activity is really not in their usual mindset.
Last edited on Sun Dec 27th, 2009 04:14 pm by PavePusher
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vermonter
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 5th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 219 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 12:29 am |
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| "So what if the bangers start to carry, it is there right"? What planet are you from? We get enough people from MA, NY, and NJ telling us how things should be in VT. I'll bet you are from CA! All your bangers carry there, I 'll bet you feel real safe in LA with homie-with-a-gun walking up behind you. If someone who looked, acted and was a banger approached me with a gun in the waist band, my 1911 would be out and in my hand! By dressing, acting and being a banger you automatically indentify yourself as a criminal. Bangers ARE criminals!
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