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darthmord
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:08 pm |
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Am I correct in that carry in Virginia's State parks is still concealed carry only?
I just want to make sure I'm still good to go since we are heading out camping *very* soon.
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Dispatcher
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Sun Mar 1st, 2009 |
| Location: | Virginia, USA |
| Posts: | 316 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:13 pm |
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darthmord wrote: Am I correct in that carry in Virginia's State parks is still concealed carry only?
I just want to make sure I'm still good to go since we are heading out camping *very* soon.
Yes, State Parks are still concealed carry only.
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ChefSMW
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:14 pm |
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Here ya go
Firearms: Law enforcement officers and those with a concealed weapons permit may carry firearms. During hunts, hunters may have firearms, which should be unloaded and properly stored when outside designated hunt areas. Target shooting is prohibited. Air guns are prohibited.
http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/faq.shtml
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ProShooter
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:54 pm |
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ChefSMW wrote: Here ya go
Firearms: Law enforcement officers and those with a concealed weapons permit may carry firearms. During hunts, hunters may have firearms, which should be unloaded and properly stored when outside designated hunt areas. Target shooting is prohibited. Air guns are prohibited.
http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/faq.shtml
Well, technically it says those with CHP's (the often misquoted "concealed weapon permit") may carry firearms. It doesnt say "those with CHP's must carry concealed". Just because I have a CHP doesnt mean that I must carry concealed at other times while in public.
Perhaps a battle for another day, but it is what it is...one could argue the point.
Last edited on Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 03:54 pm by ProShooter
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TexasNative
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 04:05 pm |
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They just worded it poorly, Jim. The governing Virginia Administrative Code is 4VAC5-30-200, which states in part:
No person except employees, police officers, or officers of the department shall carry or possess firearms of any description, or airguns, within the park. This regulation shall not apply in areas designated for hunting by the Department of Conservation and Recreation. This regulation also shall not apply to the carrying of concealed handguns within state parks by holders of a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to § 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
Now, one could argue, as I often do, that the VAC isn't law, but that's a different issue entirely. The bottom line is, they're talking about CHP holders carrying concealed.
ETA: Try as I might, I can't find anywhere that states what the penalty is for violating this regulation, or any State Parks regulation, for that matter. If there's no penalty, then it's a matter of, "Okay, I broke the rule. So what?"
~ Boyd
Last edited on Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 04:12 pm by TexasNative
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darthmord
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 04:47 pm |
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TexasNative wrote: They just worded it poorly, Jim. The governing Virginia Administrative Code is 4VAC5-30-200, which states in part:
No person except employees, police officers, or officers of the department shall carry or possess firearms of any description, or airguns, within the park. This regulation shall not apply in areas designated for hunting by the Department of Conservation and Recreation. This regulation also shall not apply to the carrying of concealed handguns within state parks by holders of a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to § 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
Now, one could argue, as I often do, that the VAC isn't law, but that's a different issue entirely. The bottom line is, they're talking about CHP holders carrying concealed.
ETA: Try as I might, I can't find anywhere that states what the penalty is for violating this regulation, or any State Parks regulation, for that matter. If there's no penalty, then it's a matter of, "Okay, I broke the rule. So what?"
~ Boyd
Looking at that VAC... it cites this: § 10.1-104 of the Code of Virginia
Going there indicates this:
7. To assess civil penalties for violations of § 10.1-200.3.
B. Pursuant to the Administrative Process Act (§ 2.2-4000 et seq.), the Department may promulgate regulations necessary to carry out the purposes and provisions of this subtitle. A violation of any regulation shall constitute a Class 1 misdemeanor, unless a different penalty is prescribed by the Code of Virginia. However, a violation of the Virginia State Park Regulations (4 VAC 5-30-10 et seq.) shall constitute a Class 3 misdemeanor.
So if I'm reading this properly, failing to abide by specified regulations is a Class 1 or 3 Misdemeanor unless a different penalty is specified in Virginia Code.
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ProShooter
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 06:19 pm |
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TexasNative wrote: They just worded it poorly, Jim. The governing Virginia Administrative Code is 4VAC5-30-200, which states in part:
No person except employees, police officers, or officers of the department shall carry or possess firearms of any description, or airguns, within the park. This regulation shall not apply in areas designated for hunting by the Department of Conservation and Recreation. This regulation also shall not apply to the carrying of concealed handguns within state parks by holders of a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to § 18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia.
Now, one could argue, as I often do, that the VAC isn't law, but that's a different issue entirely. The bottom line is, they're talking about CHP holders carrying concealed.
Agreed. I know it is worded poorly but here's where the problem comes in. We here all are of the mindset to actually read the VAC and attempt to understand it. The average person may only read the website and base their actions accordingly. It could be an interesting defense if someone got jammed up.
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TexasNative
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 07:42 pm |
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Thanks, Darthmord. I thought I'd followed the appropriate link, but I obviously consumed a massive amount of fail juice today.
~ Boyd
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darthmord
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 2nd, 2009 09:08 pm |
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Don't worry. We each take our fair share of that juice. I know I've had to take a few helpings in the past.
The trick is to not make a habit of it. 
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darthmord
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 03:49 pm |
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Well, we made it back from our trip. No varmints this time except for Ballsy the Squirrel. The little rodent kept sneaking into our camp in the early morning to look for food. Tore up stuff (plastic utensils and such) when he didn't find any food. even watched him try to break into another camp site's cases.
I did note an interesting entry on a sign right outside the men's room...
Firearms prohibited except for those with valid concealed handgun permit.
I'll toss up a link to the picture I took of it when I get home this afternoon.
I will admit... I was tempted to OC in the park to see what would happen. But since it was a family vacation, I opted to keep things quiet. No sense in having the kids see Dad get dragged off to jail for exercising his rights. Granted, it was an educational trip for the kids but I'd prefer to keep some parts of education a bit less stressful for them.
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VAopencarry
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 07:53 pm |
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His Majesty settled this matter, for now, back in March.
http://www.vcdl.org/letters/GovKaine-CW.pdf
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skidmark
Activist Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Richmond VA |
| Posts: | 1478 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 08:07 pm |
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VAopencarry wrote: His Majesty settled this matter, for now, back in March.
http://www.vcdl.org/letters/GovKaine-CW.pdf
Timmy told his minion how he wanted the game played. It's now AG opinions 3, Timmy & Parks regs 2.
The matter will not be settled until and unless either a case gets to at least the court of Appeals or the General Assembly clarifies the statute. Once the weather gets cooler I may see if Option A needs to be implemented due to option B not ripe for sponsorship in the next session.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Virginiaplanter
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 5th, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 09:07 pm |
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Who is going to charge you with a violation of the regulation? Who is the counsel for the DC&R ? The Attorney General. When the public official whose job it is to issue official legal opinions says it's ok, it would be a violation of due process to be charged when the person responsible for issuing opinions says it's fine. Gov. Tim Kaine has not been given powers to interpret law. The Virginia Bill of Rights and the Virginia Constitution both state a Separation of Powers. The Executive branch nor the Legislative branch determines the legality of a regulation or a law.
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