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Reverend73
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 3rd, 2007 03:55 pm |
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HankT wrote: Reverend73 wrote: Well, I went with Dan to file for the FOIA stuff regarding this incident. It was ENTIRELY uneventful. The officers in the station didn't say one word about us open carrying, not one. Man how I wanted them to say something. Oh well.
I'm sure that Danbus has a valid basis for complaint and it is a great thing that you went along for moral support and fellowship....but why on earth would you want "the officers in the station ... to say something" so badly?
That doesn't make any sense to me.
Were you looking for justice? A confrontation? Did you have a snappy comment ready for them?
I'm curious. Just why would you want them to say something?
Were you looking for justice? No, the FOIA will help with that
A Confrontation? Yes, I would have really enjoyed it, though I was there first and foremost to support Dan.
Did you have a snappy comment ready for them? Yes, I had a few ready.
I will apologize for nothing. It really ticks me off how they treat my friend based primarily on his skin color and secondarily on his choice to open carry. It is unacceptable. I saw with my own eyes how he was standing, where he was at, etc the day the cops come flying in gun drawn and pointed at his chest, verbally harrassing him, etc. That is NOT ok with me.
I would bet money had I not been there, the cops in the station would have harrassed him for open carrying, and he was dressed nicer than I was. Geez, now I'm all fired up again....
Last edited on Tue Jul 3rd, 2007 03:57 pm by Reverend73
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cato
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Oct 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 1607 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 3rd, 2007 03:55 pm |
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LoveMyCountry wrote: Regarding the voice recorder, does anybody else see a bad ending to the combination of "put your hands up" and you reaching into your pocket to start your recording? 
As you are pulled over, you can start the recording but how can we to start it when the Police are already on you?
LoveMyCountry
Yes, that is a valid concern. Voice activated would solve that but cost a lot of battery power and not provide the best audio as pointed out by some one else here. You could keep it in a belt pouch as many officers do and discreetly activate it if you see trouble coming.
"Hands up!" I would recommend means do it sooner then later. I've seen a shooting happen just like you mentioned. Hands up was shouted and perp put his hands in his pocket (to discard contraband) and the officer's gun when bang. Missed, lucky for him!
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Jul 3rd, 2007 04:34 pm |
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cato wrote: LoveMyCountry wrote: Regarding the voice recorder, does anybody else see a bad ending to the combination of "put your hands up" and you reaching into your pocket to start your recording?
As you are pulled over, you can start the recording but how can we to start it when the Police are already on you?
LoveMyCountry
Yes, that is a valid concern. Voice activated would solve that but cost a lot of battery power and not provide the best audio as pointed out by some one else here. You could keep it in a belt pouch as many officers do and discreetly activate it if you see trouble coming.
"Hands up!" I would recommend means do it sooner then later. I've seen a shooting happen just like you mentioned. Hands up was shouted and perp put his hands in his pocket (to discard contraband) and the officer's gun when bang. Missed, lucky for him!
I think we can all agree that waiting until the officer is on the scene and pointing a weapon at you is not a good time to try manually activating a personal recorder. That's great advice but rather obvious. Let's stipulate that.
However, in the instant case, Danbus had ample opportunity to safely activate a recorder before he got a gun pointed at his chest. He knew the po-po were a'comin'.
It would have been highly interesting to have a tape of the Danbus/LEO exchange to use in support of a complaint. I remember from the Mercutio545 and Reverend73 stops that a recorder would have been quite useful in supporting a complaint.
I also remember that LEO 229 has commented that VA LEOs must allow such recording to proceed by a citizen or get in big trouble.
As others have suggested, the recorder is a winner of an idea, state law permitting.
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AbNo
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jul 3rd, 2007 09:31 pm |
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Well, if someone can find the statute Hank just mentioned, they would be a Hero.
Though not An Hero. That's something totally different.
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Comp-tech
State Researcher
| Joined: | Tue Apr 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 935 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 3rd, 2007 10:00 pm |
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How would this fit into the voice recording issue?....... http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/541.asp
it would seem that if video is protected, audio would be as well.
Since it was a federal court, would the decision not cover all states?
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LEO 229
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | NOVA, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 7618 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 3rd, 2007 10:51 pm |
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LoveMyCountry wrote: Regarding the voice recorder, does anybody else see a bad ending to the combination of "put your hands up" and you reaching into your pocket to start your recording?
As you are pulled over, you can start the recording but how can we to start it when the Police are already on you?
LoveMyCountry
If your ordered to put your hands up... Better do it without delay.  You may just get hit with the tazer otherwise.
If you see a LEO headed in your direction or circling.. turn it on ahead of time and wait for the attack. 
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Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:36 am |
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Comp-tech wrote:
How would this fit into the voice recording issue?....... http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/541.asp
it would seem that if video is protected, audio would be as well.
Since it was a federal court, would the decision not cover all states?
Actually audio and video are treated separatly under the law. Audio falls under the wiretap statutes. In virginia, so long as any party in the conversation is aware of and consents to an audio recording, it is legal. Other parties to the conversation need not be advised of the recording.
Federal Law
Virginia LawLast edited on Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:37 am by Hawkflyer
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wsweeks2
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue May 22nd, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 58 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:41 am |
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openryan wrote: ...[Q]uite a few of us here, myself included, are usually well aware of our apprearance and dress professional or at the very least nice clothing, nothing too provocative.
Wearing a BMWAG hat but me a little much, and one should at least know that doing such will surely get you some unwanted attention, at least a few strange looks, and probably routine police encounter from concerned 'sheeple'...
I'm trying to recall where in the 2nd Amendment they placed the asterisk noting that it only applied to those who dressed acceptably?
Anyone?
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Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:45 am |
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wsweeks2 wrote:
...SNIP
I'm trying to recall where in the 2nd Amendment they placed the asterisk noting that it only applied to those who dressed acceptably?
Anyone?
It actually in the first amendment near the restrictions on flag burning.
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wsweeks2
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue May 22nd, 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:53 am |
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| Gotcha. I must have overlooked that, just like the part in the 4th allowing searches without PC.
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Comp-tech
State Researcher
| Joined: | Tue Apr 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 935 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 05:13 am |
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Hawkflyer wrote: Comp-tech wrote:
How would this fit into the voice recording issue?....... http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/541.asp
it would seem that if video is protected, audio would be as well.
Since it was a federal court, would the decision not cover all states?
Actually audio and video are treated separatly under the law. Audio falls under the wiretap statutes. In virginia, so long as any party in the conversation is aware of and consents to an audio recording, it is legal. Other parties to the conversation need not be advised of the recording.
Federal Law
Virginia Law
Thanks for the clarification Hawkflyer....I think Ala. is similar in that one party must have knowledge of/give consent.
Section 13A-11-30Definitions. The following definitions apply to this article:
(1) EAVESDROP. To overhear, record, amplify or transmit any part of the private communication of others without the consent of at least one of the persons engaged in the communication, except as otherwise provided by law.
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danbus
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 02:25 pm |
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Just to give everyone an update. I went to pick up my friend yesterday and got the cops called on me again (I believe it's the same security guard that called the cops the last time). It happened as soon as my friend came out the building! Such bad timing.
They sent 4 this time, however they didn't come out with guns drawn. I was put in handcuffs, they took my gun, they searched for my ID, all the while I verbally stating that I did not consent to a search or seizure.
I was very upset once again, so my responses weren't very nice. No cussing, but just very smart ass. Yeah, I know I shouldn't have given the officers a hard time for doing their jobs, but once they acknoledge that I'm not doing anything illegal, it's on like donkey kong.
I ended up in the squad car for being such a smart ass, however the cuffs were not double locked, causing my right wrist to slighty bruise. I informed the officer who did nothing of course (I expected him to do that).
What was REALLY funny was that 2 of the responding officers ran my "papers" twice to make sure they didn't miss anything. Then they made me give up my fingerprint (right thumb) on this FYI card and tried to tell me that I'm asking for trouble blah blah blah, the cop lecture. THEN they said I couldn't come back on this street. A public street mind you. Then after telling them it's a public street, they instructed me that I couldn't touch the wall, but I could come back. And he advised me that if I came back, they would put me in handcuffs, and run my "papers"again.
And of course, Brian wasn't with me. I was dressed nicely. Didn't even have "the hat".
Time for another FOIA, yay!
Edit - I forgot to add that my firearm was 8+1 when I got there, and 7+1 after they gave it back to me. Then they said, your gun only holds 7 rounds in the mag. After I showed him the mag (it has 8 liitle holes  ) the officer said, "oh, it must be French".
Smith and Wesson...French?
Last edited on Wed Jul 4th, 2007 02:34 pm by danbus
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wsweeks2
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue May 22nd, 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 02:31 pm |
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So they still haven't learned the laws since the last time.
That's encouraging!
At this rate, you'll own the department soon Danbus!
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 02:35 pm |
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danbus wrote: Just to give everyone an update. I went to pick up my friend yesterday and got the cops called on me again (I believe it's the same security guard that called the cops the last time). It happened as soon as my friend came out the building! Such bad timing.
They sent 4 this time, however they didn't come out with guns drawn...
This is willful harassment at this point.
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LEO 229
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | NOVA, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 7618 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 03:02 pm |
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So when will you be finding an attorney to start your lawsuit!!???
Do you your wrists hurt now? I believe all departments are required to double lock those cuffs. They can close while leaning back on them creating nerve damage.
Telling you not to return to that street is clearly harassment. I would go back again and have someone secretly video tape you from a distance. You can wear a remote microphone.
This is clearly wrong and they represent me as well as all the other LEOs out there. If they did do this... I would want them off the street.
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wsweeks2
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| Joined: | Tue May 22nd, 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 03:17 pm |
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LEO 229 wrote: This is clearly wrong and they represent me as well as all the other LEOs out there. If they did do this... I would want them off the street.
You made my day by writing this statement LEO 229.
Has anyone called the PD down in Norfolk to ask as to why they harrass legal gun owners who carry IN COMPLIANCE with state law?
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Bubba Ron
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 03:23 pm |
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wsweeks2 wrote: Has anyone called the PD down in Norfolk to ask as to why they harrass legal gun owners who carry IN COMPLIANCE with state law?
VCDL is following this very closely....
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Tomahawk
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 03:55 pm |
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ANGER RISING...deep breaths...okay, I'm good, now.
Seriously, this BS has to STOP.
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nakedshoplifter
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:01 pm |
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Someone's about to HULK out!!
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Tomahawk
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:07 pm |
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| Substitute Wes Studi for Bill Bixby and you get the picture... Last edited on Wed Jul 4th, 2007 04:08 pm by Tomahawk
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