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Renegade
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Jan 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | Yorktown, VA |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 05:08 am |
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Norfolk passed an ILLEGAL 'no guns' ordinance a few months ago (no, I am NOT kidding) and ENFORCED that illegal ordinance against a VCDL member!
Bad, bad, bad mistake.
New firearms ordinances, other than those to control discharge or hunting, have been illegal in the Commonwealth since 1987! But Norfolk appears to have been passing a series of gun banning ordinances pertaining to various festivals that the City has put on over the years!
Unbelievable. And Norfolk, of all places, KNOWS better than to do that. (VCDL has had TWO large turnouts at City Council meetings a few years ago to make sure that City Council was aware of Virginia's preemption laws.)
But, Norfolk did it anyway and now it's time to pay the piper.
Worse, within the last month, Norfolk police have also harassed two other gun owners who were lawfully carrying openly, one black and one white - each was accosted on TWO separate occasions! More on those incidents later in the alert.
Here's the story of the false arrest under an illegal ordinance (if you take blood pressure medicine, now is the time to take it for this is going to be very unsettling). Sorry for the length, but it will read quickly:
Chet Szymecki arrived at Sail Virginia 2007, a tall ship festival in Norfolk, with his family (wife, their three children, and two other children from other families [all 13 and under]) around 2:30 PM on Sunday, June 10th, 2007.
As luck would have it, Dennis O'Connor and I were also at that same festival about the same time - but Chet didn't know that we were there and vice versa! Damn, I wish I had known what was about to transpire!
Chet, who was open carrying on that beautiful day, crossed paths with dozens of officers, with many being cognizant of the fact that he was openly carrying.
At 4:30 Chet and family had just ordered some waffle cakes and returned to a music area for an upcoming show. Chet was approached by a black female Norfolk Sheriff's officer and was asked if he was a police officer.
Chet responded, "No."
The officer then stated that Chet must leave the festival area immediately since he was not permitted to carry a firearm there. At the same time another Sheriff's deputy closed in, and one more hung back a few feet. The officer began communicating on her radio and Chet was expecting the situation to totally dissolve within minutes and he could then continue to enjoy the rest of the show with no further interruption.
Within a few seconds two groups of officers from the Norfolk Police Department approached from two different directions.
The primary group had 5-6 officers, and from the look on a Lieutenant's face Chet could tell that things were quickly becoming exponentially worse.
The Lieutenant came within inches of Chet and in a very condescending tone of voice stated that Chet had two choices: leave the park or go to jail.
While appearing to be as non-confrontational as possible (one hand holding his waffle cake and the other feeding his mouth) Chet began to reply that this must be a simple misunderstanding since he is permitted to carry.
Chet was cut off and, as the Lieutenant leaned in to intimidate him, the Lieutenant raised his voice and just about shouted that Chet had only two choices: leave immediately or be arrested.
Chet was still in shock and once again began to speak. Not waiting to hear what Chet had to say, the Lieutenant immediately told the other officers to arrest Chet!
In the following seconds Chet had hands all over him. One officer was tugging at Chet's pistol, having much difficulty removing it. Chet was worried about an accidental discharge with his family being literally feet away.
Other officers were pulling Chet's arms around his back and cuffing him. Chet offered no resistance.
Chet's wife began to speak and she was immediately pushed back by a black female Sheriff's deputy!
Chet's children were just about panicking watching their law-abiding father being stripped of his dignity while their mother was being forced back and being told that she may be arrested if she failed to comply.
Chet's wife attempted to record the scene on her cellular phone and was told she would be arrested if she did not secure her phone immediately!!!
The police then forcibly escorted Ms. Szymecki and her children off the property and left them standing on a street corner in Norfolk, all alone and without car keys (Chet had them and the police would not retrieve them). How very shameful.
A totally unnecessary use of force by the police on someone who was not threatening anyone, leaving a wife and young children on a street corner, totally unprotected. Congratulations, Norfolk, those police-state tactics would have made Stalin smile warmly at you.
While being whisked away, Chet stated that he was aware that he was being unlawfully disarmed and detained and he demanded to be released immediately.
That didn't draw any response.
After a few minutes when Chet and the police were in a clear area where an Explosive Ordinance Disposal van was parked, along with many other police vehicles, Chet was instructed to face a wall.
Chet informed the officers that the handcuffs were agonizingly tight and repeated that he was not a threat to any of them and asked that the handcuffs be loosened.
Two officers were behind Chet holding him - one officer replied while squeezing the cuffs tighter that "they were not meant to feel comfortable." Nothing like having a sadist on the police payroll. I knew a couple of officers like this who worked the jail in San Antonio.
Chet was just sickened by the lack of professionalism and, as an ex-law enforcement officer and law abiding citizen, SO AM I!
After a half hour or so, and asking a few more times to have his cuffs be loosened, Chet was placed in the rear of a squad car. At that time Chet's left hand was totally numb and his right shoulder was aching.
Chet informed the officer in the police car that Chet was a veteran retired from active service and had sustained injuries in the line of duty - Chet's right arm being one of the injured areas.
Chet informed him that his right Brachial Plexus nerve group was torn from his spine and he had limited use and mobility of his right arm. Chet stated again that he simply wanted the cuffs behind his back to be readjusted.
The most the officer could offer was a suggestion on how to sit back in the squad car in a comfortable way. Needless to say - Chet, who had done nothing wrong, was very uncomfortable.
Several times one officer approached Chet and stated that "in a town of 200,000 or more like ours you cannot carry around a gun like you can in other places."
Chet told the officer that that law did not apply since: (1) the gun Chet was carrying was not classified as a "firearm" in that code section and (2) Chet had a concealed carry permit which rendered the entire section inapplicable to him.
Chet was told he did not know what he was talking about and Chet had no business carrying a gun while in Norfolk.
Speaking of being ignorant of Virginia gun laws, that officer needs remedial training. What a disgrace.
While in the cruiser an officer approached Chet and once again Chet was offered a choice: sign a summons or go visit the magistrate.
Being unfamiliar with the entire process and not understanding the gravity of the decision, Chet asked for additional clarification. The officer was polite and informed Chet that signing a summons was not an admission of guilt and he was simply promising to show up at a future court date. By not signing the summons Chet would go in front of a magistrate and this, along with the associated processing, would take many hours. Signing the summons would only take a few minutes and then Chet could be released.
DOES EVERYONE NOW UNDERSTAND WHY VCDL FOUGHT A BILL EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED OFFICERS TO THROW SOMEONE IN JAIL FOR ANY CLASS 1 OR CLASS 2 MISDEAMEANOR AT WILL? Any doubts in your mind that these officers would have done so to further humiliate and intimidate Chet if they were given the option?
Chet asked what would happen if the magistrate realized that this was all a simple mistake. The officer informed Chet that even if the magistrate released him, the police could issue a bench warrant and keep Chet in jail until his court date!!! Any doubt that these officers would have done so?
It seemed that signing the summons was the proper choice and Chet signed it. I agree.
Chet asked for his pistol to be returned and one of the officers stated that it was being held as evidence. Chet asked him for a receipt for his confiscated property. The officer stated that he had a pistol, one magazine, nine rounds of ammunition, and a holster. The officer said his verbal receipt was sufficient!
Like hell!
Chet was also forced to provide his Social Security Number - Chet asked if this were voluntary or mandatory - Chet was told it was mandatory. WRONG again, Norfolk Police! Chet was also forced to fingerprint his summons papers in four areas.
Arriving home almost two hours later, Chet was forced to skip a previously planned dinner engagement with another family and seek treatment at a local medical facility. Chet said he has a high tolerance for pain and discomfort but his right arm/shoulder and the back of his neck was just killing him.
Chet was examined by the doctor and prescribed medications. The doctor stated that since his arm has limited movement and the officers forced it into this unnatural position for over an hour, muscles and ligaments were probably strained.
Chet contacted me that evening and related the above story. The next morning I was on the phone to Norfolk City Attorney, Bernard Pishko.
Mr. Pishko proceeded to tell me that the public streets for the event were considered private property and thus guns could be banned. I told him that the "Festevents" organization that was running the festival was nothing but an arm of the City and could NOT ban guns. I also said that if the private property part were true, why had Chet not been arrested for trespass, but was instead charged under a City ordinance?
Mr. Pishko said I wasn't a lawyer and didn't know what I was talking about. He suggested that he could drop the charges against Chet, but said that perhaps this issue should be settled in court. Mr. Pishko said he was comfortable that the City would win.
Dream on, sir.
However, Mr. Pishko said the charges would be dropped and he kept his word. The charges were "Nollo Prossed" at Chet's court hearing on June 22nd and Chet is now in the process of getting his record expunged.
Chet was charged under City Code 42660 Section 3c (weapon/firearm in festival area).
In order to gather information the City may have on this incident, VCDL has already sent Freedom of Information Act requests to the
* Norfolk Sheriff, to find out which officer started this whole thing, along with any supporting information
* Norfolk Police, to get a copy of ALL radio traffic and other documents relating to Chet's arrest.
* Norfolk City Attorney, on the City's relationship with "Festevents" and to get a copy of the offending ordinance
The dollar amount of the lawsuit has not as yet been set, but I hope it is enough to get the City's attention.
--
Two other law-abiding gun owners, one black and one white, were each harassed TWICE by the Norfolk Police recently. Both were simply open carrying.
The black gun owner, an articulate, polite, 23 year-old who has helped at VCDL tables at various gun shows in the Tidewater area, had guns drawn and pointed at him by the police on the first occasion.
On the second occasion, he was handcuffed, even after complying with police demands to keep both hands on a nearby wall.
Both times the gun owner was released at the scene. But not after being unnecessarily humiliated and manhandled.
On the second occasion, the police officers told him that if they saw him open carrying again, they would handcuff him, run his gun for stolen, and then release him again!!!
Forget looking for real criminals, just harass the good guys, Norfolk. Unbelievable.
The white gun owner (Norfolk seems to be an equal opportunity harasser) was also detained and then released.
--
VCDL has been sitting quietly on this until Chet's charges were dropped. But these events cannot go unchallenged.
In addition to the lawsuit, VCDL will be attending a future Norfolk City Council meeting to denounce the oppressive harassment of Virginia's gun owners and demand an end to it.
The City of Norfolk and their police agents have a pattern of abusing the law and law abiding gun owners. If you or I violate the law, we risk fines and/or jail time. Why should local government officials be immune from punishment for passing and enforcing an ordinance in violation of state law? How long will the General Assembly let these rogue officials get away with this abuse of the law?
WE NEED A **HUGE** TURNOUT TO MAKE SURE CITY COUNCIL GETS THE MESSAGE LOUD AND CLEAR
I will advise when we have picked a date.
Tidewater - time to step up to the plate again.
Last edited on Thu Jul 19th, 2007 05:31 am by Renegade
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longwatch
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 05:10 am |
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Makes Tonys seem like a summer picnic. I will be there.
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AbNo
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 05:16 am |
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Wow, 15 minutes from email to message board. That's pretty good.
Make it a time not on the weekend, and I can almost certainly be there, with backup.
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Scheetz
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| Joined: | Wed May 9th, 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 08:36 am |
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I will do everything I can to show up. Thank god I just moved back up to North VA or I would have been OCing there also.
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DKSuddeth
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon May 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | Bedford, Texas USA |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 08:43 am |
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Chet's wife attempted to record the scene on her cellular phone and was told she would be arrested if she did not secure her phone immediately!!! Mrs. Chet should file her own lawsuit over this particular incident.....under color of law?
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Bubba Ron
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 10:43 am |
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This event actually happened before both Danbus and Reverend73's harrassment, see the later pages of this thread:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/3298-1.html
and this one:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/3368.html
We had an 8 member group go to dinner and then take a walk around downtown Norfolk right after all of these events, most open carrying, to see exactly where the offenses occurred. Chet met up with us that night and told us his story - Norfolk, and especially NPD, deserve this lawsuit for their abusive actions.
Last edited on Thu Jul 19th, 2007 10:46 am by Bubba Ron
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bayboy42
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:28 pm |
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| I'll be there!!
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HankT
State Researcher
| Joined: | Tue Feb 20th, 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:32 pm |
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NPD seems to be out of control with regard to OC. I hope the lawsuit brings them back to their senses.
The lieutenant seems to have been quite unprofessional. He seems to like pushing people around.
Did Chet get his gun back?
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paramedic70002
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:39 pm |
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| So is OC OK at their city council meeting?
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VCDL President
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:32 pm |
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paramedic70002 wrote: So is OC OK at their city council meeting? yes.
Chet did get his gun back AFTER having to give is SSN again.
Chet's wife is going to have her own lawsuit most probably.
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Reverend73
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:40 pm |
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When Chet told us all his story, made Dan's and my incidents seem like childs play. Of course you all know I will be at any city council meeting that VCDL decides to go to. Also, I will be going to the Latino Music Festival in Town Point park this Saturday if anyone want to go with me and the girl. I will of course, be open carrying, as usual.
Brian
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:41 pm |
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People keep talk about filing lawsuits, but I see no reports of such suits being filed.
All I can infer is that the filing of an effective lawsuit requires a much higher standard than most people expect to be the case.
Comments?
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rebfan
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 29th, 2006 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:44 pm |
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| What nonesense. Seems the officers of the MCPD and NPD went to the same school of training.
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Reverend73
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:45 pm |
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BB62 wrote: People keep talk about filing lawsuits, but I see no reports of such suits being filed.
All I can infer is that the filing of an effective lawsuit requires a much higher standard than most people expect to be the case.
Comments?
Not sure what you are refering to. Dan and I filed complaints about our incidents, and Dan also filed for FOIA documents in his. This is much different than filing a lawsuit.
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:50 pm |
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Reverend73 wrote: BB62 wrote: People keep talk about filing lawsuits, but I see no reports of such suits being filed.
All I can infer is that the filing of an effective lawsuit requires a much higher standard than most people expect to be the case.
Comments?
Not sure what you are refering to. Dan and I filed complaints about our incidents, and Dan also filed for FOIA documents in his. This is much different than filing a lawsuit.
I was speaking in general about every unlawful OC stop I've read about since I've been here, but here you go, from the original poster's post on this thread:
"The dollar amount of the lawsuit has not as yet been set, but I hope it is enough to get the City's attention."
Since you brought up the subject of your own detention, are you interested in filing a lawsuit, and have you found the standards to do so (and succeed) higher than you thought beforehand?
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Reverend73
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:53 pm |
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Chet has very good grounds for a case. Dan probably does too. Mine, debatable, and not worth it. Does that answer your question.
I've never looked into what is required to file a lawsuit, so I have no idea what is required. I would think you would need a strong case.
Last edited on Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:55 pm by Reverend73
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DrMark
Lone Star Veteran
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 03:06 pm |
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Wow, this is big.
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ChinChin
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 03:15 pm |
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It's interesting to see how with the Norfolk incident the police swarmed when they had the numeric advantage, but with the FFX picnic "incident" where the officers were outnumbered, it was all politeness and civil interaction.
Makes you wonder what would have happened if the Norfolk PD had suddenly found THEMSELVES surrounded by 15-30 armed citizens demanding they not violate civil rights and conduct themselves correctly.
Either way, this report has my blood boiling.
I seriously hope Mr. and Mrs. Chet make the local PD, each officer, the chief and the city financially responsible for the abuse they suffered and not only never have to work another day in their lives, but neither will their children.
Excessive force in effecting an arrest
False imprisonment
Violation of the 2nd amendment
Violation of the 4th amendment
A nice collection of police badges from fired officers displayed on their mantle would make for a great keepsake.
Last edited on Thu Jul 19th, 2007 03:16 pm by ChinChin
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LEO 229
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 03:26 pm |
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As I read it... the event was being held on public property by a private entity? I guess the leased the space?
It was shocking to read and I will hope nothing was embellished. I will make a few points of interest and wish you the best on the law suit.
1. They should have taken the time to explain why he was being asked to leave. Giving him the two options alone was kinda dumb. Leave or be arrested... Geez! However... It really would have been in the best interests of his family had he just departed the area as allowed and took up the matter later.
2. The arrest procedure was strange but proper.
ยง 19.2-74. Issuance and service of summons in place of warrant in misdemeanor case
It was identified that he was being arrested and I image this was so they could get his gun safely. They then offered to release him on a summons if he would sign it. This is in line with 19.2-74. He signed and this was a good decision for his family.
Technically... they should have written up the summons and asked him to sign before the cuffs were applied. But with the gun involved... it is kinda gray.
3. I am unaware of any requirement for providing a receipt for the taking of evidence. It will/should be written into the report. If asked.... the LEO should probably provide something in writing. But as far as I know... not required.
4. They cannot stop you from taking pictures or video!!!! This was so wrong.
5. Asking for your SSN is not a violation. It is actually used on the Summons for criminal charges. They can get it by running your Drivers License too.
6. I am not aware of obtaining prints in the field. That is a new one. If you were taken before the magistrate... A Class 1 or 2 misdemeanor means you get printed there.
7. When the wife asked for the keys to the family car... the officers should have obtained them as a matter of courtesy. Not a criminal violation but... the department may not look favorably on this. The family could have been stranded if he could not be released from jail.
8. Bench warrant to keep him in jail till court?? I do not think so. This was an empty threat.
9. Cuffs being too tight should have been addressed as soon as practical. They are not designed to be fun to wear but they can cause nerve damage and should be checked. You should be able to place a finger between the cuff and the wrist.
10. Charges were dropped... Not dismissed. They could actually go get another warrant for that charge and have you come back to court. It would have been better to have them dismissed completely.
Last edited on Thu Jul 19th, 2007 03:29 pm by LEO 229
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Malum Prohibitum
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Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 03:35 pm |
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ChinChin wrote: A nice collection of police badges from fired officers displayed on their mantle would make for a great keepsake.
Fired? The city supports and encourages this. They are not going to be fired. This is not a "rogue cop" situation. This is apparently city policy. This is not an isolated incident.
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