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ChadW
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 12:51 pm |
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http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/153661
College paper has bad ending
A UVa-Wise student said he has been expelled, but a college official wouldn't confirm it.
By Mike Allen
981-3236
A student who turned in an "alarming" creative writing assignment referencing suicide and the Virginia Tech shooter was involuntarily committed, then expelled from the University of Virginia's College at Wise after campus police found loaded guns in his car.
The student, Steven Daniel Barber, 23, of Gate City, said his short story was meant to be taken as fiction exploring a topic relevant to current events.
"I didn't intend to threaten anybody with it," he wrote Friday in an e-mail in which he said he had been expelled from the school. Though he violated a campus firearms policy by having the guns in his car, he owned them legally, he said.
College Vice Chancellor Gary Juhan, who would not confirm the expulsion, said the school took seriously the concerns raised by the content of the student's paper.
"One of the most impossible things to do is predict human behavior," he said.
In Scott County, where Barber lives, Commonwealth's Attorney Marcus McClung petitioned Tuesday to suspend Barber's permit to carry a concealed weapon. Judge Tammy McElyea approved the suspension Wednesday, citing that Barber had been involuntarily committed.
McClung said Friday that based on Barber's story and the report from campus police, the petition appeared justified.
"We just thought it was the safe and prudent thing to do," he said. McClung also said that Barber can appeal the suspension.
Barber said he will appeal his expulsion from the college to the chancellor's office on Monday.
The vice chancellor said the college had procedures in place to handle similar situations long before the shootings at Virginia Tech last April.
"We're not rookies at this," he said.
The matter began in a creative writing class taught by assistant professor Christopher Scalia, Barber said. Barber turned in copies of the story Feb. 28 to Scalia and the other students.
Barber summarized his story as being about "a crazy drug addict who ponders killing a professor, decides not to, then considers suicide ... the character doesn't actually do anything other than think."
The story is written in first person. At one point the narrator describes how news of Sueng-Hui Cho's rampage at Virginia Tech causes him to sleep with a gun under his pillow. The professor who the narrator briefly contemplates killing is named "Mr. Christopher."
According to a report by campus police Sgt. Randy Wyatt, the story alarmed Scalia and the students.
"In the writing, he mentioned suicide, harming others, possessing a gun on campus, and other points that were alarming," Wyatt wrote.
College administrators contacted campus police about the professor's concerns, according to court documents. Scalia declined to comment Friday.
The day after the Barber turned in the paper, Wyatt confronted him.
Wyatt asked Barber about suicidal statements he made in the assignment. The student replied "he was sorry if he had caused any problems, but that it was just fiction and none of it was true."
Barber consented to a search of his person, his book bag and his dorm room, but at first balked at a search of his Chevrolet Cavalier. When Wyatt said he would get a search warrant, Barber relented and said he had three guns in the car.
Police found a loaded .45-caliber automatic pistol, a loaded .22-caliber rifle and an empty 9 mm pistol.
Wyatt took Barber to a mental health clinic in Big Stone Gap, where he was involuntarily committed for three days, according to the document.
The college barred him from the campus until an administrative hearing Thursday. Barber said that's when Juhan expelled him.
Barber acknowledged that he broke school policy by having the guns, but asserted that he had a right to have them under state law.
Rumors circulated around campus all week, he said.
"Some people are saying I had a hit list, or that I was gonna 'blow up the school,' " Barber wrote. "In truth, I had a 3.9 GPA last semester. I am an Iraq war vet with a good conduct medal. I legally had my guns in the car."
The administration at UVa-Wise did not make any public announcements about Barber.
Juhan said college administrators felt they had handled the situation quickly and judiciously, and that the student had violated no state laws.
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hsmith
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 12:59 pm |
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Under what grounds was he committed?
Because he wrote fiction that he was asked to write?
Because he had a firearm?  guns are scary and only crazy people have guns?
There was no reason to commit him. 
And the car search was illegal, he did nothing to ellicit the search and seizure.
Last edited on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 01:00 pm by hsmith
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LEO 229
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 01:08 pm |
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This reminds me of the school that suspended a 2nd or 3rd grade kid for just drawing a picture of a gun.
Some schools are going overboard.
I would have told them to go get the search warrant.... they had no grounds to successfully obtain one. Writing a fictional story in a creative writing class is hardly any proof.
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sitedzn
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 01:13 pm |
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LEO 229 wrote: This reminds me of the school that suspended a 2nd or 3rd grade kid for just drawing a picture of a gun.
Some schools are going overboard.
I would have told them to go get the search warrant.... they had no grounds to successfully obtain one. Writing a fictional story in a creative writing class is hardly any proof.
I'm just glad my 5-yr old can't draw very good yet. He's brought home a pic of us at the range that he drew. If it wasn't on the wall at work, I'd scan it and post it. I thought it was awesome. Just glad his kindergarten teacher couldn't figure out what it was.
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hsmith
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 01:18 pm |
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LEO 229 wrote: This reminds me of the school that suspended a 2nd or 3rd grade kid for just drawing a picture of a gun.
Some schools are going overboard.
I would have told them to go get the search warrant.... they had no grounds to successfully obtain one. Writing a fictional story in a creative writing class is hardly any proof.
"Judge, we need to get a warrant to search this mans car"
"What is the reason?"
"He was in a fictional writing class and wrote a story about suicide!!1"
"OMG HERE YOU GO"
Although, lets look at how they stripped his CHP from him. Committed him for writing a story for class then used the committal against him. The committal was probably the same reason they searched his vehicle. We are surrounded by idiots.
I can see the reason why they took this seriously, but at some point, common sense needs to be added to the equation.
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LEO 229
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 01:26 pm |
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I would still have taken my chances that the warrant would not be obtained successfully.
As I said... some schools are going overboard.....
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Lysander
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 01:35 pm |
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hsmith wrote: Under what grounds was he committed?
Because he wrote fiction that he was asked to write?
Because he had a firearm? guns are scary and only crazy people have guns?
There was no reason to commit him.
And the car search was illegal, he did nothing to ellicit the search and seizure.
Just as importantly *HOW* did they involuntarily commit him? The timeline is doable, but exceedingly tight.
He turns the paper in on 2/38 (a Thursday). Postulating that the grader read the paper that night, or the next day, that puts us at 2/29 (Friday). If he was arrested or otherwise detained the same day (2/29) the arresting/detaining officers believed he needed to be committted, that would get the IC process started. The latest the IC hearing could be (taking 2/29 as the "start date" of the IC process) would be 3/3 (Monday) He'd have to fail the three IC questions (in a psych report - danger to self, danger to others, unable to independently care for self) He'd have an attorney (independently retained or court-appointed) present. IC hearings are technically General Distrct Court proceedings, but good luck finding the records (they are not publicly available).
The article then states that the Commonwealth Attorney filed a petition with the Court (apparently NOT the same Court) "Tuesday" (3/4?) to suspend the carry permit, which was granted (same day?).
I take that back. The timeline for the committment and hearing is doable, but I can't see how the CA would find out about a hearing the day before, file a (un-Served/un-Noticed) Petition with the Court to have it heard the same day (even on an emergency basis) - where it's not the same Court that did the IC hearing. There's still the 10 day appeal time for the original committment order, not counting a motion to rehear. (subquestion - how was the petition done? Complaint? Motion?)
Maybe if the permit-suspending Court and the IC hearing Court were the same - maybe. All I can say is WTHF?
Nothing in the above message constitutes Legal Advice. Material is provided for informational/entertainment or other purposes and is not intended to constitute or be relied upon as Legal Advice, nor is it tailored to any specific factual situation. This is not an offer to form an attorney-client relationship. This is not advertising, nor intended to be such. While I am an attorney, I am NOT YOUR attorney.
(edit: forgot date of permit suspension)
Last edited on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 01:38 pm by Lysander
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Tess
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 04:14 pm |
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hsmith wrote: Under what grounds was he committed?
Because he wrote fiction that he was asked to write?
Because he had a firearm? guns are scary and only crazy people have guns?
There was no reason to commit him.
And the car search was illegal, he did nothing to ellicit the search and seizure.
Over-reaction.
Cho wrote a story, too. Therefore, this guy must be just like Cho.
Maybe some university faculty and administration need to understand logic is more than just if A and B then C.
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Neplusultra
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 04:22 pm |
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LEO 229 wrote: I would have told them to go get the search warrant.... they had no grounds to successfully obtain one. Writing a fictional story in a creative writing class is hardly any proof.
I'm not sure it isn't. What level of evidence do you need to get a warrant? The student's use of a character as an object of murder who's a professor and uses the very name of his professor is disconcerting to say the least. Whether it rises to the level of lawful action/search warrents I don't know.
If he wanted to push the envelope I'd say he did.
But you're right, he should not have consented. What was their to gain? If he was storing weapons in his vehicle when he had to know that was against school policy then I hope he was also prepared to legally defend his actions.
Either way, it sounds like a law suit to me. They surely did take actions without evidence. Perhaps he was deemed to be a danger and that was just not reported because of privacy laws.
Last edited on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 04:28 pm by Neplusultra
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LEO 229
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 05:01 pm |
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We do not know the details of what he said in person on his feelings or intentions.
They committed him and that is not as easy as you think. I have seen this first hand.
But to write a story..... this is not enough grounds to push for searches. They really need to ask him more and identify this was for real. Maybe they did.
If I wrote a fictional story about killing a member of congress and used realistic details.... does this mean I fully intend to do it? Remembering that it IS a story and many people have written then never intending to ever do it.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 05:20 pm |
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FOLKS: The man was TDOed at a facility, then adjudicated as NOT mentally ill or a danger - he was never committed in the normal use of the word to in patient or outpatient treatment. Despite being CLEARED, UVA expelled him.
This is likley not over for UVA.
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Neplusultra
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 05:24 pm |
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Mike wrote: FOLKS: The man was TDOed at a facility, then adjudicated as NOT mentally ill or a danger - he was never committed in the normal use of the word to in patient or outpatient treatment. Despite being CLEARED, UVA expelled him.
This is likley not over for UVA.
I hope it isn't over, does anyone know who he is or if he knows his rights?
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SFDoc
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 05:36 pm |
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With all of the 100s, if not thousands, of reports of students taking creative writing and getting into some type of legal trouble or kicked out of school. I’m starting to wonder if maybe taking a creative writing class causes some type of brain damage or mental illness. Maybe schools should think about banning creative writing classes to prevent these minds full of mush from going off the deep end. But then again, I just barley made it through high school and we didn’t have creative writing courses, so what do I know.
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capablanca911
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 05:50 pm |
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Hello all. I'm Steve Barber--the student in question.
To clarify, I wasn't IC'd, I was TDO'd--and released by the judge at my first hearing that Monday morning.
And it's fascinating that the Vice Chancellor knew my permit had been revoked before campus police. And I STILL haven't been notified (other than reading about it in the paper).
What are the odds that if I did a FOIA request for a list of incoming calls to the Commonwealth Attorney I would find his number on it?
I pissed off a lot of school administrators earlier in the year by starting an independent campus newspaper that ran some embarassing stories about how, for example, the campus doesn't have an American flag flying anywhere.
*shrug*
Maybe they got wind about the story my paper was working on about professors sleeping with students? Or how the Vice Chancellor that expelled me, Dr. Juhan illegally employed "prior restraint" in my first issue.
Also of note, the professor that was concerned about my paper is Supreme Court Justice Scalia's son.
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LEO 229
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 05:54 pm |
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Steve,
Please tell us want happened from start to end....
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capablanca911
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 06:46 pm |
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I had 3 guns in my car (Springfield XD45 and North American Arms .22 derringer loaded and concealed and a Highpoint 9mm Compact unloaded and locked in my trunk). I have had a permit for about two years now.
On Thursday I turned in an assignment for a Creative Writing class with Supreme Court Justice Scalia's son. It was a first draft turned in to the professor and also the other students for review/critiques/editing. Apparently, the professor and some students were concerned because the main character was insane, a drug addict, alcoholic, considers homocide, then decides on suicide--anyway, the character doesn't actually do anything except think about these things. The character was also a student who has writer's block in some unspecified english class. Friday morning, the campus police pulled me aside as I was coming out of a class. He asked if I had any weapons on my person and if I would consent to a search. I told him that would be fine and that I had a pocketknife. He asked if I had turned in the paper and I told him that I had and asked if that was the reason for pulling me aside, etc. He asked for consent to search my dorm room (which he doesn't need because there's an implied consent in the housing agreement) but I gave him permission anyway. They didn't find anything of interest in my room. They asked if I had anything in my car, and I told them that I had 3 firearms and I showed them my permit for them. They asked if I knew that was against school policy, and I told them that yes, I did know that and I also can make a pretty good case that the school policy is illegal.
So they search my car, seize my guns, and then I'm interviewed by the school counselor. "Are you depressed?" "No." "Stressed?" "No." You get the idea. As part of their procedure I guess, I had to go to the local crisis counselor for a professional opinion. We went through the same questions and I had the same answers: I'm not homocidal or suicidal and I don't hear voices, I'm not depressed, anxious, paranoid, etc. At one point I asked if I could go to the bathroom. I told her I had a pocketknife and that she could hold onto it as a sign of good faith. She said that wouldn't be necessary.
There's hours of waiting in the lobby, then the fax comes in with my interim suspension from school pending a hearing. Then the counselor comes out with the TDO! So they make arrangements to drive me to the nearest Pysch ward. So I do the psych ward stuff for 3 days, with all of the reigndeer games: group therapy, etc. I wasn't prescribed any medicine except for Ambien which was optional. I opted out.
On Monday morning I had my hearing with the judge. They determined that I don't have a mental illness, I'm not a threat to myself or others, and that an IC wouldn't be necessary. I was dismissed.
My school hearing was last Thursday. Normally, in accordance with the student handbook, a hearing is composed of a jury of students who are elected to do that job. And expulsion requires a unanimus vote of the jury whereas other punishments just require a majority vote. The handbook has exceptions where the hearing is held directly with the Vice-Chancellor such as at the very beginning or very end of the semster. That was midterm week, and on the Friday I got TDO'd was when they scheduled the hearing for that Thursday--I think it's plenty of time to arrange for student jurors to attend. But I digress. So I had my hearing with the Vice-Chancellor with the Dean of Students as a witness. The "charges" at the hearing were: Unauthorized possession and storage of a firearm, conduct which threatens or endangers the health and safety of the Uva-Wise campus community, and conduct that is detrimental to the College and conduct that reflects negatively on the college community. I'm still not sure if the last two were from the guns in my car or the short story.
There were approximatly 8 people outside of the hearing room with handmade shirts with messages protesting IN FAVOR of me. I pointed out that that's not really indicative that the student body thinks I'm a serial killer or something. I mentioned that I was awarded a good conduct medal when I was in the Navy, that I was getting training on full auto weapons in bookcamp while the students that complained were 14 year old teenyboppers watching Dawson Creek reruns. I told them that after 3 full days of intense scrutiny, I was determined to not be crazy or a threat. I told him that I had a 3.9 GPA, that I was on the Dean's List, that I'm a hard-charger: double marjoring in political science and administration of justice. I told him I have a great relationship with my professors, one of them is also my church minister. I mentioned how many friends I had, how I have voluntarily went to speak with the school counselor whenever I felt stressed last semster, etc.
And he told me that I didn't understand. That his phone had been ringing off the hook with concerned parents, etc. He called me the next day to tell me I was expelled.
And that's it. My appeal is with the Chancellor on Monday morning.
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hsmith
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 07:26 pm |
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pretty @#$%ty story, but a reminder to all - trust no one, never consent to search (but never resist), and DEMAND a lawyer ASAP. Sadly, there would have been no grounds to search the car if you kept your mouth shut.
Crappy situation all around. Best of luck and thanks for your service.
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Neplusultra
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 07:32 pm |
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capablanca911 wrote: My appeal is with the Chancellor on Monday morning.
You sound pretty damn sane to me, not that I'm a Doctor. I'd say bring a lawyer to the appeal and let them know you're not going to allow them to sink your academic career without a fight. They did overreact. It might be in order for you to appologize for naming the professor character "Mr. Christopher" though. The fact that you chose that name does not excuse what they did or what they are trying to continue to do but I can see how it might have caused them concern at first. But once they found out you're not nuts they needed to back down and restore your CHP.
I was intending to open carry on tech campus, I live nearby, the next time I had business there. But after seeing the hysteria that happened at Ferrum College a few weeks ago (man seen with a gun) I decided that I will still OC but I'm going to notify the tech police first just so they won't call half the cops in SW Virginia to campus. It's my right to OC but it's still a good thing to be aware of how some people may react to seeing a gun on campus or to reading a "Cho" like story, especially one with a character who has the same name as a real person, albeit one is last name and the other first.
I'd appologize for any misunderstanding you may have caused but if they didn't restore your place I'd sue. You're not crazy and they know it. They just don't like your guns. And it is illegal for the state to deny you your rights to keep a weapon, especially if it's in your car.
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LEO 229
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 07:46 pm |
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You know how it is... Knee jerk reaction!!
With all that has happened at so many schools it is no longer permissible to combine anything with school and death.
Students freak out and the parents demand something be done!!
The weapons violation.. well.... I guess they got you there if it is a school policy.
But how in the world did they get a detention order for you without a certified head doctor to speak with you first?
They had some connections! I have to wait for hours for the head docs to commit people when I take them in.
They are going to make an example out of you.
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Nelson_Muntz
Activist Member
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Posted: Sat Mar 8th, 2008 08:09 pm |
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capablanca911 wrote: And he told me that I didn't understand. That his phone had been ringing off the hook with concerned parents, etc. He called me the next day to tell me I was expelled.
Sorry for what happened to you Mr. Barber, but they explained it all here: You don't understand.
It's about the $$. 
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