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hsmith
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Mar 29th, 2007 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 01:48 am |
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any chance we all can read the story?
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Tomahawk
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 01:55 am |
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| I don't think posting it on the internet is in his best interest at this point. He needs to talk to his lawyer before doing anything as unreversible as that.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 02:43 am |
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unrequited wrote: Mike wrote:
No - there are no state code gun possession bans directed at colleges in the Code of Virginia at all.
What about that Virginia Commonwealth University thing?
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+8VAC90-10-50
That''s not in the Code of Virginia.
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unrequited
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 03:56 am |
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Mike wrote:
unrequited wrote: Mike wrote:
No - there are no state code gun possession bans directed at colleges in the Code of Virginia at all.
What about that Virginia Commonwealth University thing?
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+8VAC90-10-50
That''s not in the Code of Virginia.
I was just taking that from Bob's VA laws handout... so that's not a prohibited place of carry?
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LRS76251
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| Joined: | Tue Oct 16th, 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 04:24 am |
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Virginia Administrative Code (regulations) pertain to how agencies are allowed to conduct their business. The rules on firearms prohibitions do NOT apply to people who are not part of a university community. State law (Code of Virginia, 1950) says that public colleges and universities can only make rules that apply to their students, faculty, and staff....NOT the public at large. If you don't fall into one of those categories, there isn't anything the university/college can do to you regardless if it wants to or not. Since possessing firearms is legal according to State law, the school doesn't even have the authority to even write a trespass summons. Schools think they have more power than they really do. Regulations do NOT supercede law. This is why you can be either fired or expelled if you are part of the university community for violating their policy. Nonstudents aren't affected.
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aslalum2003
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 10th, 2008 |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 06:04 pm |
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unrequited wrote: capablanca911 wrote:
I didn't even realize that Christopher was my professor's first name! I had heard it, but when I was doing the character in my head I was thinking of Warren Christopher, Bill Clinton's first secretary of state! I needed the professor to be a prick and that's what came to mind, lol!
No, no! Don't say that, you're going to get the Secret Service on you now. You should have said William Christopher who's just an actor.
Good luck with the fight, but it's going to be a hard one concerning the guns in the car, and their asinine student policy. You could always try to remind them of the last shooting at a higher learning institution in Virginia before VTech... Appalachian School of Law shooting where not one but two separate students had firearms in their vehicles in defiance of student policy and used them to successfully detain and disarm the shooter.
Good luck regardless and thank you for coming onto this site to post and give your story, regardless, please stick around.
BTW--I was at student at ASL and ON CAMPUS when the shooting happened. There was NOT a policy about carrying firearms at that time, so the students who had firearms on campus were not acting in defiance of the school's policy.
Also, the two students who detained Peter O did NOT use firearms.
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aslalum2003
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 06:05 pm |
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unrequited wrote: capablanca911 wrote:
I didn't even realize that Christopher was my professor's first name! I had heard it, but when I was doing the character in my head I was thinking of Warren Christopher, Bill Clinton's first secretary of state! I needed the professor to be a prick and that's what came to mind, lol!
No, no! Don't say that, you're going to get the Secret Service on you now. You should have said William Christopher who's just an actor.
Good luck with the fight, but it's going to be a hard one concerning the guns in the car, and their asinine student policy. You could always try to remind them of the last shooting at a higher learning institution in Virginia before VTech... Appalachian School of Law shooting where not one but two separate students had firearms in their vehicles in defiance of student policy and used them to successfully detain and disarm the shooter.
Good luck regardless and thank you for coming onto this site to post and give your story, regardless, please stick around.
BTW--I was a student at ASL and ON CAMPUS when the shooting occurred. There was NOT a firearms policy at the time, so the students did NOT act in defiance of campus policy.
Also, the two students who detained Peter O. did NOT use firearms.
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aslalum2003
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 06:08 pm |
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BTW--I was a student at ASL and ON CAMPUS when the shooting occurred. There was NOT a firearms policy at the time, so the two students did NOT act in defiance of the firearms policy.
Also, the two students who detained Peter O did NOT use firearms to get him to surrender.
So, the comment about the low body count being due to firearms on campus is inaccurate.
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Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 06:29 pm |
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aslalum2003 wrote: BTW--I was a student at ASL and ON CAMPUS when the shooting occurred. There was NOT a firearms policy at the time, so the two students did NOT act in defiance of the firearms policy.
Also, the two students who detained Peter O did NOT use firearms to get him to surrender.
So, the comment about the low body count being due to firearms on campus is inaccurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting#Students_subdued_the_shooter
According to Besen, before Odighizuwa saw Bridges and Gross with their weapons, Odighizuwa set down his gun and raised his arms like he was mocking people.[14] Besen, a former marine and police officer in Wilmington, North Carolina, then charged, got into a scuffle with Odighizuwa, and knocked him to the ground. Bridges and Gross then arrived with their guns once Odighizuwa was tackled.[15] Additional witnesses at the scene stated they did not see Bridges or Gross with their guns at the time Besen started subduing Odighizuwa.[16]
Once Odighizuwa was securely held down, Gross went back to his vehicle and retrieved handcuffs to detain Odighizuwa until police could arrive.
So, the comment about the low body count being due to firearms on campus is inaccurate.
No more so than your null hypothesis.
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Virginiaplanter
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 06:39 pm |
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"The primary goal of every university is to educate, not regulate, its students."
George Mason University v. Floyd, __, Va. __ S.E.2d __,__ (2008).
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvtx/1062603.txt
"When the legislature delegates authority to an administrative agency to promulgate regulations, those regulations must neither exceed the scope of the authority delegated nor be inconsistent with it. See, e.g., Brown, 34 Va. App. at 276, 540 S.E.2d at 522. Furthermore, "delegations of legislative power are valid only if they establish specific policies and fix definite standards to guide the official, agency, or board in the exercise of the power. Delegations of legislative power which lack such policies and standards are unconstitutional and void." Ames v. Town of Painter, 239 Va. 343, 349, 389 S.E.2d 702, 705 (1990). For example, language in an enabling statute which provides merely "that the regulations be designed to protect and promote the safety and health of employees" is insufficient. Bell v. Dorey Elec. Co., 248 Va. 378, 381, 448 S.E.2d 622, 624 (1994). "[T]he General Assembly cannot delegate its legislative power accompanied only by such a broad statement of general policy. . . . [D]elegations of authority are adequately limited [only] where the terms or phrases employed have a well understood meaning and prescribe sufficient standards to guide the administrator." Id. at 381-82, 448 S.E.2d at 624 (citations omitted)."
Avalon Assisted Living Facilities, Inc. v. Zager, 39 Va. App. 484, 574 S.E.2d 298 (2002).
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0778024.txt
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 06:52 pm |
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unrequited wrote: Mike wrote:
unrequited wrote: Mike wrote:
No - there are no state code gun possession bans directed at colleges in the Code of Virginia at all.
What about that Virginia Commonwealth University thing?
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+8VAC90-10-50
That''s not in the Code of Virginia.
I was just taking that from Bob's VA laws handout... so that's not a prohibited place of carry?
Depends if you believe the AG opinion saying such bans are not generally applicable to the public, and, not even a total ban can stand against students.
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Repeater
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 10:44 pm |
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Virginiaplanter wrote: "The primary goal of every university is to educate, not regulate, its students."
George Mason University v. Floyd, __, Va. __ S.E.2d __,__ (2008).
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvtx/1062603.txt
"When the legislature delegates authority to an administrative agency to promulgate regulations, those regulations must neither exceed the scope of the authority delegated nor be inconsistent with it. See, e.g., Brown, 34 Va. App. at 276, 540 S.E.2d at 522. Furthermore, "delegations of legislative power are valid only if they establish specific policies and fix definite standards to guide the official, agency, or board in the exercise of the power. Delegations of legislative power which lack such policies and standards are unconstitutional and void." Ames v. Town of Painter, 239 Va. 343, 349, 389 S.E.2d 702, 705 (1990). For example, language in an enabling statute which provides merely "that the regulations be designed to protect and promote the safety and health of employees" is insufficient. Bell v. Dorey Elec. Co., 248 Va. 378, 381, 448 S.E.2d 622, 624 (1994). "[T]he General Assembly cannot delegate its legislative power accompanied only by such a broad statement of general policy. . . . [D]elegations of authority are adequately limited [only] where the terms or phrases employed have a well understood meaning and prescribe sufficient standards to guide the administrator." Id. at 381-82, 448 S.E.2d at 624 (citations omitted)."
Avalon Assisted Living Facilities, Inc. v. Zager, 39 Va. App. 484, 574 S.E.2d 298 (2002).
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0778024.txt This is a powerful entry in this thread. Goes to the heart of Separation of Powers doctrine.
The only thing I don't like are the text cites. PDF versions are preferable:
George Mason University v. Floyd
Avalon Assisted Living, etc v Zofia A Zager, etc
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stan Luney
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 11:15 pm |
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Students subdued the shooter Taken from wikopedia...When Peter Odighizuwa exited the building where the shooting took place, he was approached by two students with personal firearms[6] and one unarmed student. [7] There are two versions of the events that transpired at that moment, one by Tracy Bridges and one by Ted Besen.
According to Bridges, at the first sound of gunfire, he and fellow student Mikael Gross, unbeknownst to each other, ran to their vehicles to fetch their personal owned firearms.[8] Gross, a police officer with the Grifton Police Department in his home state of North Carolina, retrieved a 9 mm pistol and body armor.[9] Bridges, a county sheriff's deputy from Asheville, N.C.,[10] pulled his .357 Magnum pistol from beneath the driver's seat of his Chevrolet Tahoe. As Bridges later told the Richmond Times Dispatch, he was prepared to shoot to kill.[11] Bridges and Gross approached Odighizuwa from different angles, with Bridges yelling at Odighizuwa to drop his gun.[12] Odighizuwa then dropped his firearm and was subdued by several other unarmed students, including Ted Besen and Todd Ross.[13]
According to Besen, before Odighizuwa saw Bridges and Gross with their weapons, Odighizuwa set down his gun and raised his arms like he was mocking people.[14] Besen, a former marine and police officer in Wilmington, North Carolina, then charged, got into a scuffle with Odighizuwa, and knocked him to the ground. Bridges and Gross then arrived with their guns once Odighizuwa was tackled.[15] Additional witnesses at the scene stated they did not see Bridges or Gross with their guns at the time Besen started subduing Odighizuwa.[16]
Once Odighizuwa was securely held down, Gross went back to his vehicle and retrieved handcuffs to detain Odighizuwa until police could arrive.
Police reports later noted that two empty eight round magazines designed for Odighizuwa’s handgun were recovered. Most sources (including those quoting Virginia State Police spokesman Mike Stater) state that when Odighizuwa dropped the gun the magazine was empty,[17] although an initial report suggested the gun still held three rounds of ammunition.[1..........This is my home town and one of the victims was a realitive
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 03:51 am |
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LEO 229 wrote: They are going to make an example out of you.
I think that we should make an example out of UVA-Wise!
This sort of crap just makes my blood boil. Yes, be very creative in your creative writing class, but only in a politically correct manner. Mention firearms and you will be nailed to a cross. We know we can get away with it. Look how we abused the system to persecute capablanca911.
Open Carry one and all. Rifles, pistols shotguns and semi-automatic handguns with high capacity magazines. Nothing illegal, just a reminder to the intolerant petty tyrants that run this public university that they are public servants, not dictators.
Isn't this sort of abuse what VCDL's use of the NATO Doctrine is all about?
I think some questions to the campus police about an open carry of firearms event on and around their campus would get some attention. Their number (276)382-0190.
Last edited on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 03:52 am by Thundar
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:05 am |
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Does UVA Wise have a student policy about handguns?
Here is what their student handbook says:
WEAPONS STORAGE POLICY
Purpose: This policy provides rules and regulations concerning the possession and storage of firearms and archery equipment on the property of The University of Virginia‘s College at Wise. WEAPONS MUST BE CHECKED IN TO THE UVA-WISE CAMPUS POLICE IMMEDIATELY UPON ARRIVAL TO COLLEGE PROPERTY BY CALLING (276) 328-2677. Storage and Related Procedures:
Rifles, shotguns, paintball guns and archery equipment will only be stored during the first week prior to hunting season and one week after the appropriate season. Special arrangements will be made upon request.
Two forms of ID must be presented at check-in and check out.
The check out sheet must be signed by both the officer and gun owner.
All weapons must be unloaded and ammunition must be separate, either in case or other appropriate means.
All weapons must be in case or sleeve.
Automatic weapons or semi-automatic (assault weapons) are not permitted on College property.
Campus Police reserves the right of issuance of any stored firearm if in the judgment of the Officer on duty that the release of the weapon is detrimental to the safety of the College community.
Check-in does not mean surrender or turn over, just check- in. Hello, campus police? Yes I have a weapon. Indeed a firearm cannot be surrendered over the phone. The policy clearly states that automatic and semi-automatic(assault weapons) are not permitted. If that is the list of not permitted weapons, then other firearms must be permitted. 
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Tomahawk
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:29 am |
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Thundar wrote: Rifles, shotguns, paintball guns and archery equipment will only be stored during the first week prior to hunting season and one week after the appropriate season. Special arrangements will be made upon request.
They think paintball guns are for hunting?
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tapper95
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:36 am |
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I wonder if the author of the policy has ever even seen a picture of a gun... It sounds like addition of the paintball gun was after the original version... not only ignorance but laziness...
...but I do have a funny picture in my head of some guy bragging to his friends about he shot that deer up all orange and green...
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:38 am |
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Tomahawk wrote: Thundar wrote: Rifles, shotguns, paintball guns and archery equipment will only be stored during the first week prior to hunting season and one week after the appropriate season. Special arrangements will be made upon request.
They think paintball guns are for hunting?
Do paintball guns fall under firearms or archery equipment?
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Tomahawk
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:39 am |
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Thundar wrote: Tomahawk wrote: Thundar wrote: Rifles, shotguns, paintball guns and archery equipment will only be stored during the first week prior to hunting season and one week after the appropriate season. Special arrangements will be made upon request.
They think paintball guns are for hunting?
Do paintball guns fall under firearms or archery equipment?
What difference does it make?
I...erm...knew a guy who used to shoot at deer with a paintball gun...he and his jackass buddies thought it was funny to see the animal running around the woods with a big green dot on it's side. I don't think they hit very many. Especially if they were as bright as he was.
Last edited on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:41 am by Tomahawk
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capablanca911
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| Joined: | Sat Mar 8th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 01:56 pm |
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Hey guys, the story broke in my local paper:
http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9005490
It's a great write-up, IMO.
And I just got the call--I've been expelled.
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