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Bear 45/70
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 08:31 pm |
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Slickity wrote: Any type of powered human transportation device is considered a vehicle.
Ahhh, but some of the biker children try to play word games and say you don't ride "in" a mototcycle but "on" it so a CPL is not necessary.
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fetch
Member
| Joined: | Fri Aug 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Spokane, Wa. |
| Posts: | 43 |
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 08:45 pm |
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| Not to be to off topic, but what is it about the ferry system? Now I heard the state is installing cameras to record license plates to look for, stolen cars, deadbeat dads, felons, etc. I guess they will know who has a CPL, even if you are not carring at the time.
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joeroket
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 08:52 pm |
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Slickity wrote: Any type of powered human transportation device is considered a vehicle.
According to the definition of Vehicle in RCW 46.04.670 this is incorrect.
"Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, including bicycles. The term does not include power wheelchairs or devices other than bicycles moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Mopeds shall not be considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.70 RCW. Bicycles shall not be considered vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, or 46.70 RCW. Electric personal assistive mobility devices are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, 46.29, 46.37, or 46.70 RCW.
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joeroket
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2008 08:53 pm |
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fetch wrote: Not to be to off topic, but what is it about the ferry system? Now I heard the state is installing cameras to record license plates to look for, stolen cars, deadbeat dads, felons, etc. I guess they will know who has a CPL, even if you are not carring at the time.
This is a technology that police departments are starting to deploy that reads the plate via a camera and then runs it through the database.
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badger
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 02:13 am |
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The only time I've OCed on a ferry was when I was going from Seattle to Bremerton to see Randy Loun. Didn't have any issues and spent most of my time up in the lounge area with my wife and daughter. Passed plenty of the ship's crew on my strongside and not so much as a second glance or comment from any of them.
-Badger
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Dr. Fresh
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 13th, 2008 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 06:50 am |
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So is a personal boat considered a vehicle? Can I carry a loaded long gun on a personal boat?
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Dr. Fresh
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 06:50 am |
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EDIT: Double post, sorry.
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 06:51 am by Dr. Fresh
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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Olympia, WA |
| Posts: | 1763 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 06:54 am |
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Dr. Fresh wrote: So is a personal boat considered a vehicle? Can I carry a loaded long gun on a personal boat?
Beats the heck out of me, and I live on mine.
I know the Coasties don't make a fuss over it, and I'm guessing the water cops don't know one way or another or really care unless you are doing something stupid.
I should really try to find the answer to this... 
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Dr. Fresh
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 08:29 am |
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Would be good to find out, since my parents own a boat. I usually bring my pistol with me when I'm on it, but I'd like the option of my Mossberg if I need it.
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Slickity
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| Joined: | Wed Jul 9th, 2008 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 12:09 pm |
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Dr. Fresh wrote: Would be good to find out, since my parents own a boat. I usually bring my pistol with me when I'm on it, but I'd like the option of my Mossberg if I need it.
I own a boat also so I would like to know this too. Here's the thing about the ferry and all other places for that matter. I'm not worried about the crew members or people that work at stores etc. It's the people that go a complain OH @#$% he's got a gun. My thing is at least you can see that I have one and not hiding it in my waist.
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arms_libertas
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 04:51 pm |
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I scuba dive most of Puget Sound from a boat, so I was very interested when this topic came up... I know this is long, but I wanted to lay out the logical argument completely.
1. CPL required in a vehicle so:
RCW 46.04.670
Vehicle
"Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, including bicycles. The term does not include power wheelchairs or devices other than bicycles moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Mopeds shall not be considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.70 RCW. Bicycles shall not be considered vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, or 46.70 RCW. Electric personal assistive mobility devices are not considered vehicles or motor vehicles for the purposes of chapter 46.12, 46.16, 46.29, 46.37, or 46.70 RCW.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.670
2. Definition of a highway by the state:
RCW 46.04.560
State Highway
"State highway" includes every highway or part thereof, which has been designated as a state highway or branch thereof, by legislative enactment.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.560
3. Designation of state highways:
Link to all defined highways- http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=47.17
Example using Hwy 20:
RCW 47.17.080
State route No. 20.
A state highway to be known as state route number 20 is established as follows:
Beginning at a junction with state route number 101 in the vicinity of Discovery Bay, thence northeasterly via the most feasible route to Port Townsend; also
From the state ferry terminal at Port Townsend via the state ferry system northeasterly to the state ferry terminal at Keystone; also
From the Keystone ferry dock on Whidbey Island, thence northeasterly by the most feasible route by way of Deception Pass, Burlington, Sedro Woolley, Concrete, Newhalem, Winthrop, Twisp, Okanogan, Tonasket, Republic, Kettle Falls, Colville, and Tiger; thence southerly and southeasterly to a junction with state route number 2 at Newport.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=47.17.080
It seems to me that a CPL is required to carry, otherwise openly, in ferries and personal water vehicles, as they are vehicles capable of moving upon the state highway between Pt. Townsend & Keystone for instance. You still have the "in" vs "on" argument I suppose, but I don't think it's possible to be a passenger on a ferry without going "in" the vessel at some point... I could be wrong.
As far as live aboards go, it seems like they meet the "person's place of abode" exception as outlined in RCW 9.41.050 (1)(a). What does a live aboard need to be classified as such? A fixed address? It seems reasonable that as soon as your move it, you are using it as a vehicle and not a "place of abode".
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Bear 45/70
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 06:15 pm |
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| But once you anchor or tie up again it is your abode again.
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kparker
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| Joined: | Fri Nov 10th, 2006 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 08:16 pm |
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No, the ferry IS the highway. You don't need a CPL to openly carry a loaded handgun as you walk down the road, do you?
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deepdiver
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 10:37 pm |
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Interesting discussion. So if someone lived in a motorhome or fifth-wheel trailer the same concept would apply I guess. So while traveling it is a vehicle, but once you park it at an RV park it is a "residence" again?
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joeroket
Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:12 pm |
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kparker wrote: No, the ferry IS the highway. You don't need a CPL to openly carry a loaded handgun as you walk down the road, do you?
Exactly my thoughts too. The waterway is not the extension of the state highway but rather the ferry itself is the extension. As far as a boat being a vehicle there is nothing in the RCW's that define any watercraft as a vehicle, they are reffered to mostly as a vessel.
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joeroket
Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:17 pm |
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deepdiver wrote: Interesting discussion. So if someone lived in a motorhome or fifth-wheel trailer the same concept would apply I guess. So while traveling it is a vehicle, but once you park it at an RV park it is a "residence" again?
While it is driving it is considered a vehicle by staute. Whille it is parked, I would imagine in a camping location and being used as shelter, it would be considered a home.
A fifth wheel is never a vehicle and you are never allowed in it while it is being pulled down the road.
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deepdiver
Activist Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Missouri USA |
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Posted: Sat Jul 19th, 2008 09:56 pm |
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joeroket wrote: deepdiver wrote: Interesting discussion. So if someone lived in a motorhome or fifth-wheel trailer the same concept would apply I guess. So while traveling it is a vehicle, but once you park it at an RV park it is a "residence" again?
While it is driving it is considered a vehicle by staute. Whille it is parked, I would imagine in a camping location and being used as shelter, it would be considered a home.
A fifth wheel is never a vehicle and you are never allowed in it while it is being pulled down the road.
Laff, I knew that and that's what I get for not being precise on this forum. 
With a fifth wheel or other such trailer I as more thinking about while at a gas station or some other place where you weren't yet camping and were obviously still in transit.
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Dr. Fresh
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 06:59 am |
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All the more reason to get rid of the ban on loaded guns in vehicles.
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maclean
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 07:16 am |
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Dr. Fresh wrote: All the more reason to get rid of the ban on loaded guns in vehicles.
The ban on loaded long guns in vehicles really was aimed at hunters, and poachers in particular who shoot from their vehicles.
As for the requirement for a CPL for a loaded handgun in a vehicle, some States have taken that approach with some success.
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kparker
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| Joined: | Fri Nov 10th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Jul 20th, 2008 07:30 pm |
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maclean,
The ban on loaded long guns in vehicles really was aimed at hunters, and poachers in particular who shoot from their vehicles.
So why don't they just make poaching, and hunting from in/on a vehicle, illegal?
Oh, wait.... don't tell me this is Yet Another Case Of Banning Innocuous Behavior Because Other People Did Something Wrongtm? Bleah, put me down as another vote for getting rid if it! (Not that the climate in Olympia is particularly favorable at the moment; but as soon as it is, then heave-ho!)
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