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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Olympia, WA |
| Posts: | 3091 |
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 11:50 am |
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I personally will never hand my gun to a cop. Too much room for error. If they want it, then they can remove it from the holster themselves. I will not stop them.
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compmanio365
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 03:30 pm |
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Lions, welcome to the forum. I just have to say, "meek" isn't in my dictionary.  To each their own, but I will NOT bend over just because some thug with a badge tells me to. If an LEO wants to talk with me, fine, I have no issue with that. But if I start feeling like there's a fishing expedition going on, it's straight to "Am I being detained? What crime do you suspect me of committing? I'm not going to answer any more of your questions without legal representation." Then the ball is in their court, and they can decide if they want to risk repercussions from violating my civil rights.
Honestly, I've only had a couple LEO encounters while OCing, and both went actually fairly well. I walked away without having any issues, and I felt the officers involved in both situations were more educated about OC by the time the encounter was done. That's the best outcome one could ask for. But you can't assume that's how it will go when you are talking to the police.....you really do have to assume they are looking for something to pin on you until you know otherwise, and act accordingly. Your rights and freedom DO depend on it.
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Magister
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Feb 1st, 2009 |
| Location: | Bellingham, WA |
| Posts: | 42 |
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 03:38 pm |
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As I used to be a mall ninja, heres something to check.
A large percentage of the malls in the US are owned by the GGP corporation. You can simply ask a security guard or CSA and they should know. If so, GGP bans firearms for EVERYBODY at all of its locations. Even security. Police are the only exception.
That said, if I know that the business is anti-gun, I refuse to shop there. Period.
Or I carry anyway. I just keep it hidden. 
Oh, I should add: Most of these mall shootings we've had? GGP property. Gee, I wonder why the shooters choose GGP...
Last edited on Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 03:38 pm by Magister
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David.Car
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 04:28 pm |
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sv_libertarian wrote: I personally will never hand my gun to a cop. Too much room for error. If they want it, then they can remove it from the holster themselves. I will not stop them.
Could always ask them to remove it with the holster... That could be fun to watch, especially if you have a serpa on.
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kenshin
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 05:50 pm |
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David.Car wrote: sv_libertarian wrote: I personally will never hand my gun to a cop. Too much room for error. If they want it, then they can remove it from the holster themselves. I will not stop them.
Could always ask them to remove it with the holster... That could be fun to watch, especially if you have a serpa on.
I've had to tell an officer to do just that, the officer couldn't figure out how to get it out of my serpa and just kept yanking on it.  I was afraid he was going to put a hole through my leg.
ETA: Also, you never want to take out your gun to hand it to an officer. Too many bad things can happen.
Last edited on Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 05:51 pm by kenshin
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David.Car
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 07:59 pm |
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kenshin wrote: ETA: Also, you never want to take out your gun to hand it to an officer. Too many bad things can happen.
+a jillion.
If I ever HAD to relinquish my firearm and they would not take it themselves, I would remove it still within the holster.
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vote_no
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 02:59 am |
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David.Car wrote: kenshin wrote: ETA: Also, you never want to take out your gun to hand it to an officer. Too many bad things can happen.
+a jillion.
If I ever HAD to relinquish my firearm and they would not take it themselves, I would remove it still within the holster.
Works in reverse, too: I recently had the Port Townsend PD hand me my gun back without the slide locked, pointing at himself.
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CaptainAttila
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Jun 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | Richland, WA |
| Posts: | 41 |
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 05:16 am |
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I've seen notices at the "mall" entrances, but never at one of the anchor store entrances. Since I'm addicted to Barnes & Noble's product, I just carry concealed at the mall. I have seen others OC there before (nice stainless 1911 in a belt slide belong to one of you?) but I don't need the hassle with mall security.
BTW, it's a Simon property.
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M1Gunr
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 06:52 am |
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CaptainAttila wrote: Since I'm addicted to Barnes & Noble's product, I just carry concealed at the mall.
Barnes and Noble are gun friendly, If you have issues please contact their customer relations department to get the issue resolved.
Attachment: barnes-noble-policy.pdf (Downloaded 71 times)
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cbpeck
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 07:31 pm |
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Thanks for the input, "partner." I agree, conceptually with you on a lot of points. I would prefer that LEO in my community begin to recognize OCers as upstanding members of the community who deserve to be treated with respect & courtesy, rather than an over reaction. My sense is that making too huge of a deal out of it (i.e. an unjustified lawsuit) would incline LEOs to view OCers as an inconvenience or annoyance. I do not want to be viewed as such.
If a cop ever tells me he's going to take my gun again, I believe I will reply with the following statement: "I do not consent to you taking my firearm, but I will not resist." This makes it clear that they are removing your sidearm without your permission, against your will, but that you will remain unthreatening. I think its a good place to be.
Caleb
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cbpeck
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 07:44 pm |
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CaptainAttila,
Thanks for your post. To those who questioned, I'm certain that the Macy's door I entered through had no signage indicating that firearms were prohibited. Other doors may be marked.
This incident happened the first time I've OCed at the mall, so you probably haven't seen me there. I was carrying a Kimber Custom CDP II. I'm surprised that other people have OCed there, seemingly without incident. It makes me wonder if it has something to do with my age (I'm 27, but look about 23).
I personally don't like the idea of carrying concealed in a facility that bans all firearms entirely. I will typically either respectfully abide by their rules or just not visit their establishment.
Caleb
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M1Gunr
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 08:18 pm |
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Like most malls in the area, the Tacoma Mall has "No Weapons" signs at all of the external mall entrances (parking lot). However none of the main stores (Sears, JC Pennys, Macys, Nordstroms) has any signage either from the parking lot or into the mall area.
I always enter thru Sears when I have to go in. I have OC'd in Sears many times to replace tools and not once have I had any issue.
Last edited on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 08:20 pm by M1Gunr
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cbpeck
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 08:45 pm |
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I have not yet followed up with Kennewick PD (I'm incredibly busy right now, but I plan on doing it within the next week).
I would like to inform you that the Director of 911 Emergency Dispatch for Franklin County has apparently been informed of the open carry movement (he was referred to this forum) and has assured my contact that the dispatchers under his direction are trained to assess MWAG scenarios with discretion so that police are less likely to be dispatched in response to OCers.
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arentol
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 10:51 pm |
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cbpeck wrote: CaptainAttila,
Thanks for your post. To those who questioned, I'm certain that the Macy's door I entered through had no signage indicating that firearms were prohibited. Other doors may be marked.
This incident happened the first time I've OCed at the mall, so you probably haven't seen me there. I was carrying a Kimber Custom CDP II. I'm surprised that other people have OCed there, seemingly without incident. It makes me wonder if it has something to do with my age (I'm 27, but look about 23).
I personally don't like the idea of carrying concealed in a facility that bans all firearms entirely. I will typically either respectfully abide by their rules or just not visit their establishment.
Caleb
You may have entered Macy's through the unmarked Macy's entrance, but was the mall entrance FROM Macy's marked with a no guns sign?
Always make sure you check for this as well.
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M1Gunr
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 12:27 am |
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You may have entered Macy's through the unmarked Macy's entrance, but was the mall entrance FROM Macy's marked with a no guns sign? Always make sure you check for this as well.
I can tell you that the Tacoma mall does not have signs posted when leaving a main store like JC Pennys, Sears, Macys, Nordstroms.
I always enter through Sears.....
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cbpeck
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 01:21 am |
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Arentol,
There was no posting at the passage from Macy's to the mall hallway, either. They simply didn't have it posted anywhere other than at hallway entrances to the mall. I appreciate the thought, though.
Caleb
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Mainsail
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 01:40 am |
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"Officer, are you detaining me?"
if yes, "For suspicion of what crime are you detaining me?"
if no, "Have a nice day officer." and walk away.
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PolskiG
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:13 am |
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Magister wrote:
A large percentage of the malls in the US are owned by the GGP corporation.
Oh, I should add: Most of these mall shootings we've had? GGP property. Gee, I wonder why the shooters choose GGP...
Would that be because GGP owns most of the malls in the US?
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FMCDH
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 16th, 2009 04:28 am |
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cbpeck wrote: Arentol,
There was no posting at the passage from Macy's to the mall hallway, either. They simply didn't have it posted anywhere other than at hallway entrances to the mall. I appreciate the thought, though.
Caleb
Being a former contract security agent, let me say the following from experience.
Most of the stores that "endcap" the mall hold the right to their own property and do not have to follow the general mall rules. Sears, Macy's, Barns & Noble, Borders, REI, Nordstrom, etc. are larger corporations that generally own the property they have their stores in outright and do not lease the land from the mall management company. Most those stores keep with state laws on the matters of firearms in their stores. Stores like Macy's will commonly refuse to post such signs in states like Washington for that very reason.
Basically, you are fine in those stores if they don't have their own restriction posted, but once you pass the line into the mall you are under the private property authority of the mall owner, and that commonly extends to the leased stores within the mall by proxy.
As someone else said, most malls are managed by the same company which blanket forbids all weapons, but normally ask you to leave and at worst they trespass you for a year, in my experience.
If you REALLY must go to the mall, enter through one of the stores that have no posting, and stay concealed. Most malls now days are too jumpy about firearms and you will eventually be stopped and booted if you OC.
Once exception is Bellevue square mall which is managed by a different company than GGP. I have never so much as been approached by their security there when OCing.
For a list of malls that GGP manages, go to the link below and use the "choose your mall" drop down tool on the right.
http://www.ggp.com/Default.aspx
"Carry On!"
Last edited on Thu Apr 16th, 2009 04:32 am by FMCDH
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cbpeck
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 16th, 2009 10:52 pm |
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FMCDH,
Good info. Thanks for the insight. I don't get over to Bellevue Square very often, but when I do I'll consider OCing. I have read of people being stopped across the street at Lincoln Square. Interesting, since they're connected by a skywalk. I guess its like you said, different property owner.
cbpeck
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