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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Olympia, WA |
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 08:59 am |
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City of Mercer Island Code for assemblies in parks. If you bring a formal speaker along, they may try to pull this on you.
9.30.220 the director is ordered to establish forthwith such rules and regulations pertaining to the issuance of assembly permits as shall permit the fullest peaceful utilization of the parks by all the general public including such persons attending such assemblies and such other persons utilizing the park, but not in attendance at such assembly as shall be reasonably possible and consistent with the health, safety and general welfare. In this connection, and in addition to the conduct requirements of this chapter, such rules and regulations may require the deposit of “cleanup” undertakings, the furnishing of waste and sanitary conveniences and effective plans for traffic and crowd control and management. (Ord. A-91 § 1, 1991).
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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:01 am |
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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote: You misunderstand... the OC picnic would not happen in five days.... that would just be a Tea Party/Liberty Protest...
The Picnic would take longer to plan and would only be a picnic... food, pop, light chat about the weather and your favorite gun... but no politics.
I figured that people wouldn't have time to get ready for a 4th of July picnic at such short notice since they may have other plans... but a Liberty/Tea Party style protest gathering on Independence Day talking about Liberty and Freedom and our Constitutional rights would be appropriate for what the day stands for.
There is one going down at the Capitol Campus in Olympia on the 4th.
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Washintonian_For_Liberty
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:03 am |
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sv_libertarian wrote: City of Mercer Island Code for assemblies in parks. If you bring a formal speaker along, they may try to pull this on you.
9.30.220 the director is ordered to establish forthwith such rules and regulations pertaining to the issuance of assembly permits as shall permit the fullest peaceful utilization of the parks by all the general public including such persons attending such assemblies and such other persons utilizing the park, but not in attendance at such assembly as shall be reasonably possible and consistent with the health, safety and general welfare. In this connection, and in addition to the conduct requirements of this chapter, such rules and regulations may require the deposit of “cleanup” undertakings, the furnishing of waste and sanitary conveniences and effective plans for traffic and crowd control and management. (Ord. A-91 § 1, 1991).
Yeah I saw that... the Campaign for Liberty may have the funds to make that possible... and if we apply, and pay the clean up fee... I believe they cannot refuse since it is a matter of Free Speech and Freedom of Assembly.
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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Olympia, WA |
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:04 am |
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I'm guessing a simple picnic won't be an issue.
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Batousaii
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:20 am |
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I am really sorry to hear about this event, absolutely shameful disgrace to the LEO community. These officers should be released from duty (fired) and made to serve some community service.
Yeah, i am totally in favor of a picnic there, if they stormed it, might be cause for a civil suit as a group... I kinda agree about no speaker, might be awkward, but a good old fashioned picknick, cool.
-- Something really needs to be done about the rogue cops -- they are not LEOs. Maybe the state should be sued to pay for each and every officer to take a "sensitivity class" ... lol ... yummm... But seriously, i have encountered a few zealous officers that were way way way out of line for the situation, and i wasnt even OC. The courts need to start to treat officers as "human" too, with stout consequences for overstepping or breaching peoples rights and liberties. They are not, or should not be above reproach, or above the law. a good LEO balances the spirit of the law with the letter of the law, and remembers that he represents his community and his office's image with his individual actions. A LEO in and of him/herself is not the law, but supposed to be a courier of the law... i am usually very pro-LEO .. but i absolutely think they should be held to an extreme amount of accountability.
Bat.
Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:57 am by Batousaii
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Washintonian_For_Liberty
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:58 am |
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Don't get me wrong... I am very pro LEO... I'm just anti THUG...
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Batousaii
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 10:11 am |
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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote: Don't get me wrong... I am very pro LEO... I'm just anti THUG...
100% Agree ... and dealt with my share of thug officers... they need to be accountable, or should be. it's a sad story indeed.
ya know there are a few on here who have had similarly bad experiences recently, might look into some sort of joint lawsuit against the state. maybe get a certain RCW repealed or reworded for better clarity now that the black panthers are gone.
Bat
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Unreconstructed Confederate Polymath
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 11:57 am |
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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote: Don't get me wrong... I am very pro LEO... I'm just anti THUG... It takes three encounters for some few to be convinced.
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No1
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Jun 25th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 01:15 pm |
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thass one evil
live thro two
well said no1
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Tawnos
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 04:01 pm |
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sv_libertarian wrote: City of Mercer Island Code for assemblies in parks. If you bring a formal speaker along, they may try to pull this on you.
9.30.220 the director is ordered to establish forthwith such rules and regulations pertaining to the issuance of assembly permits as shall permit the fullest peaceful utilization of the parks by all the general public including such persons attending such assemblies and such other persons utilizing the park, but not in attendance at such assembly as shall be reasonably possible and consistent with the health, safety and general welfare. In this connection, and in addition to the conduct requirements of this chapter, such rules and regulations may require the deposit of “cleanup” undertakings, the furnishing of waste and sanitary conveniences and effective plans for traffic and crowd control and management. (Ord. A-91 § 1, 1991).
I'd be surprised if this or 9.30.110 is constitutional under the WA state constitution Article 1 Section 4 .
SECTION 4 RIGHT OF PETITION AND ASSEMBLAGE. The right of petition and of the people peaceably to assemble for the common good shall never be abridged.
I would not mind being a test case for that, as I think the idea of an assembly permit is abhorrent to the Constitution, both state and federal.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 05:21 pm |
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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote: SNIP Sgt Noel also said "This is Mercer Island and a man with a gun is not normal. It is unusual and strange and we don't like unusual and strange. So we will respond to every call just like we're responding to this situation with you here today.
He stated very clearly to me that he did not care what Washington State law says my rights are... that the Mercer Island Police Department will handle every call about me exactly this same way.
One of them also said that they might even arrest me for disturbing the peace if I did it again and all they needed was one complaint from someone saying I was alarming them.
Nothing in 4th Amendment court opinions permit Terry Stops for:
- "not normal"
- "unusual"
- "strange"
- "do not care what the law says"
Especially in light of this quote from US Supreme Ct. opinion Florida vs JL:
A second major argument advanced by Florida and the United States as amicus is, in essence, that the standard Terry analysis should be modified to license a "firearm exception." Under such an exception, a tip alleging an illegal gun would justify a stop and frisk even if the accusation would fail standard pre-search reliability testing. We decline to adopt this position. (emphasis added)
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Magix
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 05:23 pm |
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I'm very sorry to hear about your story. Especially since it happened in front of your daughter. I hope you go to the Mercer Island PD office and make a formal complaint against those officers. Also, show them the KC training bulletin. It's completely unacceptable to treat law abiding citizens like that. Thank you for sharing this story.
If there is a picnic at that park, I will definitely try to be there.
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5jeffro7
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 05:27 pm |
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gentlemen:
it is this precise type of contact that we work hard to prevent. For this reason, I strongly feel that it is imperative to have an emergency meeting at this particular park ASAP.
Tawnos and I are working on getting together this evening in the park...I think the statement we're trying to make would be bigger & stronger if there were more of us to make the statement...I'd also like to see someone, probably not OCing to videotape the event in the likelihood that MIPD shows up.
on a side note, I left a message for the chief asking him, in light of the statement about citizens taking the necessary precautions to protect themselves and the statement about respecting an individual's rights and freedoms, how he could justify Sgt. Noel's violation of a citizens constitutional rights's as well as his civil rights under 18 USC 142...we'll see if he calls me back 
Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 05:31 pm by 5jeffro7
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Flanders007
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 05:30 pm |
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I'm all for a picnic at MI. I missed the one in Bellevue (how was it anyway?).
If it's on the 4th, I can't make it, but maybe the weekend afterward? Let's get a solid date set!
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Tawnos
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 05:50 pm |
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Flanders007 wrote: I'm all for a picnic at MI. I missed the one in Bellevue (how was it anyway?).
If it's on the 4th, I can't make it, but maybe the weekend afterward? Let's get a solid date set!
I was just going to go jogging there, tonight. No picnic, food, or anything. I'm just getting my exercise at the park. The weather's been great, and my knee is bugging me too much today to do high intensity interval training like I usually do on Tuesday/Thursday (probably just agitated it walking to Kirkland and back on Sunday).
Show up if you want, I doubt there will be any issue, because my guess is their lawyer and or commanding officers will be reading the forum and alerting them to the illegality of their behavior.
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Magix
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 06:03 pm |
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| I just wrote a polite email to the MIPD asking for their officialy policy for their officers to follow regarding open carry. It'll be handy to print out when I go there for lunch this weekend while OC.
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5jeffro7
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 06:15 pm |
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I just got off the phone with the Police Chief & his main concern, without going through all the details was that people sometimes get scared when they see someone with a gun. I cited Casad & he was extremely interested in that aspect of it. I've emailed him the training bulletins & a link for not only Casad, but a link to the article in the most recent Police chief magazine.
the best part of the conversation was when he told me that Sgt. Noel was what he liked to refer to as "Mr. Gun" as he's probably the most pro-gun person the chief knows & that he (Sgt.Noel) is as big of gun enthusiast as anyone can be. if that's the case, & he's the most "pro-gun" then gentlemen, we're in big trouble 
the chief was very receptive to my concerns about rights violations and was definitely going to look into the incident.
I'm not suggesting that no legal action be taken, quite the opposite, but the chief is willing to learn, and that's a positive step. he did mention that when his training officer gets back next Tuesday, he's going to talk to him additional training object & if a training bulletin is issued, he will forward a copy to me
Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 06:17 pm by 5jeffro7
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Triple Tap
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 06:49 pm |
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5jeffro7 wrote: I just got off the phone with the Police Chief & his main concern, without going through all the details was that people sometimes get scared when they see someone with a gun. I cited Casad & he was extremely interested in that aspect of it. I've emailed him the training bulletins & a link for not only Casad, but a link to the article in the most recent Police chief magazine.
the best part of the conversation was when he told me that Sgt. Noel was what he liked to refer to as "Mr. Gun" as he's probably the most pro-gun person the chief knows & that he (Sgt.Noel) is as big of gun enthusiast as anyone can be. if that's the case, & he's the most "pro-gun" then gentlemen, we're in big trouble
the chief was very receptive to my concerns about rights violations and was definitely going to look into the incident.
I'm not suggesting that no legal action be taken, quite the opposite, but the chief is willing to learn, and that's a positive step. he did mention that when his training officer gets back next Tuesday, he's going to talk to him additional training object & if a training bulletin is issued, he will forward a copy to me
Did you forward him the King County Training bulletin for his review? Maybe it would help to show him how dumb his own officers where being.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 07:24 pm |
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5jeffro7 wrote: SNIP the best part of the conversation was when he told me that Sgt. Noel was what he liked to refer to as "Mr. Gun" as he's probably the most pro-gun person the chief knows & that he (Sgt.Noel) is as big of gun enthusiast as anyone can be. if that's the case, & he's the most "pro-gun" then gentlemen, we're in big trouble
(Not picking on 5Jeffro7. Just using his post to introduce my point.)
Fellas,
I can't stress this enough. This encounter is not a 2A issue.
It is a 4th Amendment issue. It doesn't matter in the least that Sgt "No"el is pro-gun. The 2nd Amendment has little bearing on the matter. For the chief to even mention the cop's attitude towards 2A is a red-herring.
The problem is police officers who pounced and violated 4A because of personal antipathy.
Focus on, and beat the stuffing out of the 4A violation.
We all know very well that if the cops were willing to violate 4A in this incident, they're willing to do it to people whose percieved "violation of the way things are on Mercer Island" does not involve a gun.
Also, OC and pre-emption have been plastered all over the police grape vine for over a year, starting perhaps with Lt. Wilson and the Olympia detentions about a year ago. There is almost no way the Mercer Island thugs could not know OC is legal.
And, even if, by some amazing stretch, they did not know OC was legal, it would not matter. Police don't have to know OC is legal to not violate rights. All they have to know is that they don't know it is illegal. Unless a cop knows to a dead moral certainty that an activity is illegal, he has no business doing anything except a consensual encounter.*
*There are other elements that come into play in a Terry Stop, so don't take that statement literally. But it seems to apply in the OP situation for now. Unless the 911 call recording alleges suspicious behavior of a crime, etc.
Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 08:10 pm by Citizen
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blight
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:12 pm |
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a formal complaint and a lawsuit are the best way to prevent this type of thing from happening again. should we create a $ fund to support such an effort?
-blight
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