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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Olympia, WA |
| Posts: | 3075 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 09:21 pm |
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People, keep in mind Casad is an unpublished opinion and does not carry any legal precedence. It's useless to cite it. I don't care what excuses are made to keep bringing it up, but it carries no weight.
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5jeffro7
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 11:06 pm |
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sv_libertarian wrote: People, keep in mind Casad is an unpublished opinion and does not carry any legal precedence. It's useless to cite it. I don't care what excuses are made to keep bringing it up, but it carries no weight.
While I agree that it would be useless to try to cite it in any type of legal case, in some cases (very much so in this instance), it can be used as a learning tool for LE.
in this very case, the chief was going off the "people get scared" garbage, but after doing his own research (including Casad), he has admitted that he needs to do some additional training, not only for his officers, but working with dispatchers as well.
if citing Casad can open up peoples minds to where they are better informed, then I don't have a problem with doing so.
Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 11:06 pm by 5jeffro7
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kwiebe
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 11:27 pm |
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To me, this case just boils down to ignorance or laziness (or both) with respect to 9.41.270.
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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Olympia, WA |
| Posts: | 3075 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 11:30 pm |
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My guess it had never been an issue before on Mercer Island, and we have no idea what kind of background the cops had with armed citizens (for all we know, both cops were Kalifornia or New York transplants)
This boils to down to a Training Fail on the part of MIPD. Hopefully Chief Holmes actually will give training to his officers and dispatch on this matter.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 11:43 pm |
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sv_libertarian wrote: My guess it had never been an issue before on Mercer Island, and we have no idea what kind of background the cops had with armed citizens (for all we know, both cops were Kalifornia or New York transplants)
This boils to down to a Training Fail on the part of MIPD. Hopefully Chief Holmes actually will give training to his officers and dispatch on this matter.
No offense, Lib. But the police need zero training or backround on armed citizens to understand that unless they know with complete certainty that the activity is illegal they have no 4A justification or exception for a warrantless seizure, in this case a full-blown Terry Stop. Additional circumstances that might give rise to RAS excepted, of course.
This is not an armed-citizen issue. This is a police-ignored-the-4th-Amendment issue.
Last edited on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 11:43 pm by Citizen
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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Olympia, WA |
| Posts: | 3075 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 30th, 2009 11:53 pm |
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I just emailed the MIPD and told them that until they stopped violating 4th amendment rights I will not be shopping there or spending any money on MI until I get assurance that they have changed their ways.
It's a toss up on if they will care or not. Enclaves like Mercer Island often seem to think they are above the law, and tend to use cops more to keep whatever is deemed "undesirable" away, and hire officers with that in mind. It's more important to do things the "Mercer Island way" than actually follow the law.
Makes me glad I live in Olympia... the cops here are responsive and the admin professional.
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kparker
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri Nov 10th, 2006 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 891 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 12:46 am |
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I'll second sv_lib's statement about the Oly police. I haven't had much experience with them, but what I've had has been a good mix of professional + small-town friendly.
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Misguided Child
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Nov 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 194 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:27 am |
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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
The big officer behind me then said "Are you trying to make a point? We could arrest you for brandishing a weapon and then where would your daughter be?"
I replied "Officer, while you may feel your concern is warranted, I have not brandished my weapon as that would require me holding it in my hand."
To which he replied "Oh yes you did... and everyone in the park saw it."
"Yeah, but I was not brandishing it and what I am doing is perfectly legal under Washington State law."
W_F_L,
This sounds like you agreed with the officer that everyone in the park saw you with your gun in your hand. What was he refering to?
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:31 am |
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Misguided Child wrote: Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
The big officer behind me then said "Are you trying to make a point? We could arrest you for brandishing a weapon and then where would your daughter be?"
I replied "Officer, while you may feel your concern is warranted, I have not brandished my weapon as that would require me holding it in my hand."
To which he replied "Oh yes you did... and everyone in the park saw it."
"Yeah, but I was not brandishing it and what I am doing is perfectly legal under Washington State law."
W_F_L,
This sounds like you agreed with the officer that everyone in the park saw you with your gun in your hand. What was he refering to?
The "yeah" goes with "everyone saw it." He had already said that he was not holding it in his hand.
This is a good example of why you don't talk to police if you don't have to. And you feel you have to (for example your toddler is with you), you choose your words carefully.
I am more interested in the cop using the daughter as leverage to intimidate. Totally, completely, utterly disgusting.
Last edited on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:32 am by Citizen
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44Brent
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| Joined: | Sun May 21st, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 02:05 am |
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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote: Sgt Noel replied "I don't care what the law says! Every time we see you out here, we're going to come over and detain you in hand cuffs. Do you really want this kind of trouble?"
That makes two of you who don't care what the law is. If I recall, you are the person who thought that the man who shot his dog and left it to die should be charged only be charged with "littering".
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 02:18 am |
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44Brent wrote: Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote: Sgt Noel replied "I don't care what the law says! Every time we see you out here, we're going to come over and detain you in hand cuffs. Do you really want this kind of trouble?"
That makes two of you who don't care what the law is. If I recall, you are the person who thought that the man who shot his dog and left it to die should be charged only be charged with "littering".
Lets work on the police before we work on each other.
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Metalhead47
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 04:25 am |
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Citizen wrote: 44Brent wrote: Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote: Sgt Noel replied "I don't care what the law says! Every time we see you out here, we're going to come over and detain you in hand cuffs. Do you really want this kind of trouble?"
That makes two of you who don't care what the law is. If I recall, you are the person who thought that the man who shot his dog and left it to die should be charged only be charged with "littering".
Lets work on the police before we work on each other.
+1. That whole dog thing became a theoretical discussion, what ought to be. This is very very real and has us ALL thoroughly disgusted. Leave the other thread to its self.
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heresolong
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Blaine, WA |
| Posts: | 837 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 04:31 am |
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Something else I have not seen posted here, I have just spent some time in the Mercer Island municipal code and can find no reference to any ban on firearms, either in the city or in the parks.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 04:36 am |
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heresolong wrote: Something else I have not seen posted here, I have just spent some time in the Mercer Island municipal code and can find no reference to any ban on firearms, either in the city or in the parks.
Heh, heh, heh.
The pieces drop into place.
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Misguided Child
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Nov 3rd, 2007 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 194 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 05:31 am |
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Citizen,
I didn't ask you a question and I have no use for commentary from someone who thinks he can read minds from across the country.
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 05:45 am |
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Misguided Child wrote: Citizen,
I didn't ask you a question and I have no use for commentary from someone who thinks he can read minds from across the country.
I was working on what I thought was obvious inference. As in, I inferred he could not have been agreeing with people seeing him brandishing since he had just disclaimed it in the earlier sentence. Not to insult, but it seems to me that it yields an absurd result otherwise.
Not sure what you are upset about. I'm willing to clear it up and be on good terms if you are.
Last edited on Wed Jul 1st, 2009 05:45 am by Citizen
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ghosthunter
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 05:57 am |
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Do any of you see any value in everybody on this site emailing Mercer PD? With attachments of the laws.
Since we are so spread out. Seems like it would get them talking about Open Carry.
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blowfish852252000
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 08:39 am |
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| maybe the doughnut shop was closed and they had nothing better to do, so they had to take out there frustration on perfectly good americans who know there rights
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Magister
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sun Feb 1st, 2009 |
| Location: | Bellingham, WA |
| Posts: | 41 |
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 01:52 pm |
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| I still think a picnic or meet up would be best. I can only imagine "Mr. Pro-gun Noel's" head exploding at the sight of so many plain old citizens enjoying their rights. Everybody knows the police should be the only ones with firearms, right?! Because they are -SO- well trained...
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Boo Boo
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Posted: Wed Jul 1st, 2009 03:18 pm |
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you also forget mercer island are full of the rich. they get scared if a minority gets seen on the island. they expect to get pampered.
there are alot of bullies in departments. if they don't have a IA department they feel they can get away with anything.
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