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RichardDavies
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 08:58 pm |
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NavyLT wrote: Any idea how to obtain the editable .pdf file?
Here you go (thanks to an online pdf -> word converter). 
Attachment: Free Washington Gun Rights Pamphlet.doc (Downloaded 51 times)
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NavyLT
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 11:46 pm |
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RichardDavies wrote: NavyLT wrote: Any idea how to obtain the editable .pdf file?
Here you go (thanks to an online pdf -> word converter).
Thanks! There is a new thread I started with the 3 corrections made that we have noted so far. I'll work on cleaning up the fonts and such and make everything more uniform throughout the document. There is only a PDF of the corrected version so far. Unless anyone has an objection to me working on this.
Last edited on Fri Sep 25th, 2009 11:47 pm by NavyLT
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surfj9009
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | Spokane, WA |
| Posts: | 640 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 02:27 am |
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Hey guys!!!!
Look who is back. Thanks RichardDaviesfor getting that done. I have been off here and busy with a lot of other things until now. I will try to stick around more often.
Last edited on Sat Sep 26th, 2009 02:27 am by surfj9009
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surfj9009
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | Spokane, WA |
| Posts: | 640 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 02:29 am |
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PS
I still have the original file that was used before if somebody wants it. It is not a word file though, but an OpenOffice file.
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joeroket
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Sep 26th, 2009 11:00 pm |
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Surf, I would love to have a copy of the original. Could you send it to me at joeroket (at) nwcdl.org
Thanks a bunch.
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surfj9009
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | Spokane, WA |
| Posts: | 640 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 27th, 2009 04:08 am |
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| Just sent it to ya joe
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joeroket
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2009 04:00 pm |
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Thanks Surfj.
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Brown Labs
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 21st, 2009 |
| Location: | Pullman, WA, USA |
| Posts: | 5 |
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Posted: Thu Oct 22nd, 2009 07:05 pm |
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Excellent. Thanks for the PDF.
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RymRytr
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 11th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 8 |
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 03:18 am |
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I've had CWP for over 40 years. Went for renewal and the Lady corrected me: "It's a CPL."
I'm sure I've lost some more "rights" with this move...
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pistolero57
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Nov 12th, 2009 |
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| Posts: | 10 |
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Posted: Thu Nov 12th, 2009 09:47 pm |
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Maybe this is a new topic? I have studied the Washington laws (RCW 9.41.050 and 060) over and over to try to see if I really understand the law. The way I read it is:
In the absence of a concealed carry permit...
If the gun (pistol, rifle, or shotgun - it doesn't matter which) is loaded, it has be unloaded when it is placed inside of a vehicle. Period. Even with a concealed carrry permit, rifles and shotguns cannot be carried loaded in a vehicle (right?)
If the pistol (specifically) is loaded, and carried, it has to be carried openly. There is no Washington law that specifically authorizes it. It is just that no Washington law has stated otherwise. But...
If the pistol (specifically) is UNloaded, and carried, it has to be carried concealed. It is against Washington law to carry an UNloaded pistol openly. (See RCW 9.41.060 (9)) Therefore RCW 9.41.060 forces people to carry loaded pistols out in the open.
This is the craziest, most bass ackwards, set of gun carry laws I have ever read. Imagine this common scenario...
I decide to take my pistol with me on a business trip from Vancouver to Olympia. I don't have a concealed carry permit. Since it is legal to carry a loaded pistol in my home (or fixed place of business) I can carry the pistol loaded right up until I decide to place it inside of my car. At that moment I have to unload it and conceal it. While I am driving the pistol has to remain UNloaded and concealed. As soon as I arrive at my destination I have to step out of the car with my still-concealed UNloaded pistol and immediately load it again and holster it in my open-carry holster. Otherwise I have to leave it UNloaded and concealed. If I leave it in the car I have to make sure the car is locked up too.
(If I have read the Washington law wrong please correct me!)
Based on what I just wrote, it is safe to assume that, any time you see a pistol being carried openly, it is loaded.
Also based on what I wrote, it must be perfectly legal to carry an UNloaded pistol in my pants pocket if I want to. (Never mind that the bulge usually gives away what's in there.) It is also legal for me to carry a loaded magazine or speedloader in my other pocket (right?) It just can't be in the gun (automatic.)
Also, I can carry my pistol UNloaded, in my coat pocket or pants pocket the entire time while I'm driving, right? I can also have a loaded magazine or speedloader just sitting there, out in the open, on the car seat or dashboard too, right?
Am I reading these crazy laws right? HELP!
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NavyLT
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 12:53 am |
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No, you are not quite reading the law correctly. Look a couple threads down at the updated gun rights pamphlet which has the correct vehicle carry section updated. If the updated pamphlet doesn't answer your question, post it as a new thread and we'll help more!
Last edited on Fri Nov 13th, 2009 12:53 am by NavyLT
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911Boss
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 02:10 am |
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pistolero57 wrote: Maybe this is a new topic? I have studied the Washington laws (RCW 9.41.050 and 060) over and over to try to see if I really understand the law. The way I read it is:
In the absence of a concealed carry permit...
If the gun (pistol, rifle, or shotgun - it doesn't matter which) is loaded, it has be unloaded when it is placed inside of a vehicle. Period. Even with a concealed carrry permit, rifles and shotguns cannot be carried loaded in a vehicle (right?)
CORRECT
pistolero57 wrote: ...In the absence of a concealed carry permit...
If the pistol (specifically) is loaded, and carried, it has to be carried openly. There is no Washington law that specifically authorizes it. It is just that no Washington law has stated otherwise.
CORRECT
pistolero57 wrote: ...In the absence of a concealed carry permit...
But...
If the pistol (specifically) is UNloaded, and carried, it has to be carried concealed. It is against Washington law to carry an UNloaded pistol openly. (See RCW 9.41.060 (9)) Therefore RCW 9.41.060 forces people to carry loaded pistols out in the open
INCORRECT
RCW 9.41.060 describes EXCEPTIONS to the restrictions of RCW 9.41.050, it does not require or "force" anything. RCW 9.41.050 says you cannot carry a pistol concealed "on your person". Case law has been pretty clear to include "about your person", such as in a purse or briefcase, as well if it was readily accessible.
What 9.41.060 does is clarify the intent that someone carrying a cased or wrapped and unloaded pistol (such as to or from the range, or to home after purchase) isn't "concealing" but rather transporting it and when carried in such fashion it should not be considered "on your person".
If it is unloaded and in a purse or briefcase I think you would also be considered legal since it doesn't really specify requirements for the case or wrapper.
pistolero57 wrote: ...In the absence of a concealed carry permit...
This is the craziest, most bass ackwards, set of gun carry laws I have ever read. Imagine this common scenario...
I decide to take my pistol with me on a business trip from Vancouver to Olympia. I don't have a concealed carry permit. Since it is legal to carry a loaded pistol in my home (or fixed place of business) I can carry the pistol loaded right up until I decide to place it inside of my car. At that moment I have to unload it and conceal it. While I am driving the pistol has to remain UNloaded and concealed. As soon as I arrive at my destination I have to step out of the car with my still-concealed UNloaded pistol and immediately load it again and holster it in my open-carry holster. Otherwise I have to leave it UNloaded and concealed. If I leave it in the car I have to make sure the car is locked up too.
(If I have read the Washington law wrong please correct me!)
INCORRECT
While you are in your vehicle, the UNloaded weapon does not have to be concealed.
Side note- You need to be very cautious when transitioning from loaded to unloaded and vice versa. Someone observing you drawing and loading or clearing could reasonably be alarmed depending on the circumstances, and that could leave you susceptible to a beef under RCW 9.41.270 (1).
Some folks will OC without a round in the chamber and just remove or insert the magazine so the pistol can remain in the holster (known as "Israeli Carry").
pistolero57 wrote: ...Based on what I just wrote, it is safe to assume that, any time you see a pistol being carried openly, it is loaded.
Your starting to go off path. ANY time you see ANY pistol, one should assume it is loaded (Firearm safety Rule #1- Treat ALL firearms as if they are loaded).
As far as the LAW goes, there is nothing that specifies when a gun HAS to be loaded. Only times and situation when it CAN'T be.
pistolero57 wrote: ...Also based on what I wrote, it must be perfectly legal to carry an UNloaded pistol in my pants pocket if I want to. (Never mind that the bulge usually gives away what's in there.) It is also legal for me to carry a loaded magazine or speedloader in my other pocket (right?) It just can't be in the gun (automatic.)
Also, I can carry my pistol UNloaded, in my coat pocket or pants pocket the entire time while I'm driving, right? I can also have a loaded magazine or speedloader just sitting there, out in the open, on the car seat or dashboard too, right?
INCORRECT
Once the gun goes in the pocket of clothing you are wearing, it becomes, without any doubt, "on your person".
Clothing is clothing, not a "opaque case or wrapper". If it is in clothing you are wearing, then it is "concealed on your person"
It is absolutely legal to carry ammo in a speed loader or magazine as there are no restrictions in this state on the carrying of ammo.
Whether the pistol is loaded or not doesn't matter for RCW 9.41.050. If it is concealed on your person and you do not have a CPL, you are in violation.
Now you might be able to make a case for a pistol in a coat pocket of a coat you are NOT wearing, but I don't think I would want to go that close to the line.
Yes, ammo can be in plain view, again no restrictions in this state on carrying ammo whatsoever.
pistolero57 wrote: ...Am I reading these crazy laws right? HELP!
Some yes, but the really important ones? - No.
Edited to correct error pointed out by NavyLT
Last edited on Fri Nov 13th, 2009 04:10 pm by 911Boss
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NavyLT
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 04:38 am |
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pistolero57 wrote: I decide to take my pistol with me on a business trip from Vancouver to Olympia. I don't have a concealed carry permit. Since it is legal to carry a loaded pistol in my home (or fixed place of business) I can carry the pistol loaded right up until I decide to place it inside of my car. At that moment I have to unload it and conceal it. While I am driving the pistol has to remain UNloaded and concealed. As soon as I arrive at my destination I have to step out of the car with my still-concealed UNloaded pistol and immediately load it again and holster it in my open-carry holster. Otherwise I have to leave it UNloaded and concealed. If I leave it in the car I have to make sure the car is locked up too.
911Boss, you said the above was correct and it is NOT correct. There is NO requirement to conceal an unloaded pistol in the vehicle, if the vehicle is occupied. If the vehicle is occupied the unloaded pistol can be ANYWHERE either openly visible or concealed EXCEPT that it CANNOT be concealed ON THE PERSON.
When the person leaves the unloaded pistol in the vehicle UNATTENDED - that is when it must be concealed and the vehicle locked.
(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
Notice RCW 9.41.050 (3)(a) does not say "carry" or "transport", it says "leave" as in unattended.
Last edited on Fri Nov 13th, 2009 04:42 am by NavyLT
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911Boss
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Nov 13th, 2009 04:07 pm |
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NavyLT wrote: pistolero57 wrote: I decide to take my pistol with me on a business trip from Vancouver to Olympia. I don't have a concealed carry permit. Since it is legal to carry a loaded pistol in my home (or fixed place of business) I can carry the pistol loaded right up until I decide to place it inside of my car. At that moment I have to unload it and conceal it. While I am driving the pistol has to remain UNloaded and concealed. As soon as I arrive at my destination I have to step out of the car with my still-concealed UNloaded pistol and immediately load it again and holster it in my open-carry holster. Otherwise I have to leave it UNloaded and concealed. If I leave it in the car I have to make sure the car is locked up too.
911Boss, you said the above was correct and it is NOT correct. There is NO requirement to conceal an unloaded pistol in the vehicle, if the vehicle is occupied. If the vehicle is occupied the unloaded pistol can be ANYWHERE either openly visible or concealed EXCEPT that it CANNOT be concealed ON THE PERSON.
When the person leaves the unloaded pistol in the vehicle UNATTENDED - that is when it must be concealed and the vehicle locked.
(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
Notice RCW 9.41.050 (3)(a) does not say "carry" or "transport", it says "leave" as in unattended.
Good catch, I spaced on the concealed part. I have to admit my head was throbbing after reading his posts....
Yes, only needs to be concealed if left unattended in the car. Original reply edited.
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tyguy808
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 14th, 2009 09:21 am |
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You guys know what sucks? That newbie asked that question here on the 12th, he obviously didn't like the answers you gave him, so he started a new post not thirty minutes later asking the same exact thing. He suckered me into that very same debate today. I went on for over an hour, "just get your CPL", "here are the ways around it" and even "Welcome Aboard". Now I'm feeling really bad about all of it. Stupid newbie-Anti!
OMG, dude, if you're not getting the answers that you want (we all pretty much feel the same way), go find an anti site to find the answer that you're looking for.
ETA: Why didn't one of you stop me?
ETA II: Stupid grammar again, dang its a bad day. The first sentence is a run-on, but, I can't figure out how to fix it. So, oh well!
Last edited on Sat Nov 14th, 2009 09:24 am by tyguy808
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