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eleuthera
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed May 27th, 2009 08:28 pm |
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| Enjoy! Attachment: 2009-02_Open_Carry_of_Firearms.pdf (Downloaded 469 times)
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roconnor14
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 01:01 am |
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| These school zones are ridiculous. I can't step one foot off my front lawn.
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Lammie
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Sun Feb 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 680 |
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 02:03 am |
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Eleuthera:
Thank you for posting the document it is very important and I suggest anyone carrying a firearm in Milwaukee and the surrounding area carry one on his person.
The Milwaukee police training bulletin on open carry is well written and accurate. On the surface it appears to be quite "out-of-character" for police cheif Flynn. That is until you realize what is, in my opinion, a "hidden agenda". It is apparent that Cheif Flynn is using the school zone law as his "ace-in-the-hole". There is no mention in the bulletin about the private property or school zone awareness or the firearm training exclusions. I suspect anyone stopped inside any of the circles shown on the maps will be in an "interesting" situation much to the glee of Flynn and the Milwaukee mayor. Both would much prefer to charge a person openly carrying a firerm with a felony instead of a disorderly conduct misdemeanor. Call me paranoid if you will but that's the way I see it. That is also why the "school zone restriction" should be our next challenge.
Barring an opinion by the Attorney General or the state Supreme Court that ss948.605 is unconstitutional it probably is unrealistic to expect the current legislature to totally repeal the statute. It is too much of an emotional issue especially in that it involves child safety. What we can do is put pressure on the legislature to clean the statute up. Some of the things we can demand are:
1. Make the penalty fit the crime. A law abiding citizen that is carrying a firearm for personal protection within their constitutional rights and who strays into the 1000ft "zone" should not be charged the same as if they had criminal intent.
2. Require that "private" property be thoroughly and accurately defined. For example; businesses, sidewalks, city streets and and other rights-of-ways.
3. Require that the 1000ft zone be abolished or at a minimum reduced to only the school property itself.
4. If abolishment or reduction of the 1000ft zone isn't saleable then at least require the city to post signs marking the boundaries to prevent accidental encroachment by well meaning persons.
5. Allow off duty police officers to carry firearms in a school zone. As the statute now exists off-duty police officers are also prohibited from carrying a loaded and uncased firearm in any of the 1000ft zones.
There are other areas that need fixing.
Of course the most desireable solution would be to have the SSC declare the school zone statute unconstitutional. Unfortunately the penalty of being charged with a felony if found guilty makes a court challenge unlikely and I suspect the attorney general will avoid issuing an opinion as if it was a plague. Our best bet is the legislature. We have to start pounding on them now.
Most certainly this post is controversial. There are some members that will want all or nothing. Because of the child safety emotions surrounding this subject I fear if we demand all we will get nothing. I say that because I have already sent letters to my legislative representatives. They are both staunch defenders of the 2nd amendment and Article I section 25 but they both expressed the same concern . The concern that child safety not be compromised.
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32HR MAG
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 03:02 am |
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| I didn't know the BG's out there cared about child safety?I have children and would like changes made so those that are law abiding can carry.Then maybe the BG's would stay away from schools.They would have to go else where to recruit the new BG members.Gang members and other BG's, sure wouldn't want Mom and Dad around, if they are carrying,when they are looking for new recruits or buyers.
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308Panther
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat May 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | Cudahy,Wi., USA |
| Posts: | 13 |
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 09:41 am |
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eleuthera wrote: Enjoy!
Thank You,
Lammie,
Some very good points. Points 1-4 sound reasonable.
Last edited on Thu May 28th, 2009 09:55 am by 308Panther
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Sajuuk
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 09:55 pm |
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roconnor14 wrote: These school zones are ridiculous. I can't step one foot off my front lawn.
I've got the same problem. I'm completely surrounded, with an apparent school on my block that I didn't even know was a school.
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joelm
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 11:16 pm |
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Anybody make a school zone map yet for Waukesha County, as well as find a training manual for Waukesha Cty police regarding open carry after the AG's opinion? I did a brief search and found nothing, but can do more searching if no one already has.
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joelm
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu May 28th, 2009 11:19 pm |
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Lammie wrote: 1. Make the penalty fit the crime... You could forcibly make the person attend an MPS school, particularly Bradley Tech. One less truancy there. Oh the horror..
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Shotgun
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri May 29th, 2009 12:16 am |
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32HR MAG wrote: I didn't know the BG's out there cared about child safety?I have children and would like changes made so those that are law abiding can carry.Then maybe the BG's would stay away from schools.They would have to go else where to recruit the new BG members.Gang members and other BG's, sure wouldn't want Mom and Dad around, if they are carrying,when they are looking for new recruits or buyers. Let's face it, the school zone law wasn't really designed with child safety in mind. It was designed to mess with gun owners and to limit their ability to carry a gun.
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Lammie
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Sun Feb 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
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Posted: Fri May 29th, 2009 03:55 am |
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| Shotgun is correct. The federal school zone law was an act of the antis. They used the fear and panic of the moment to push for the law and it's ridiculous controls. They played the child safety issue to the hilt in order to lobby the law through congress and various state legislatures. The cries of child safety were but a smokescreen. However it is my opinion that the same smokescreen would be used to argue against recinding the school zone law.
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pvtschultz
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 |
| Location: | West Allis, WI |
| Posts: | 230 |
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Posted: Fri May 29th, 2009 05:33 pm |
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| I'll even accept the 1000' school zone statute if it was rewritten as a crime enhancer like the so called "hate" crime enhancer. That way, if you commit a gun crime within 1000' of a school, you'll get an enhancer on your sentence. That way it is still there, but not applicable to us.
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Spongebob
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 29th, 2009 08:47 pm |
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The school-zone gun law is not legit. Firearm possession is only open to reasonable regulation.
We are legal to carry in them as far as anyone who can read should be concerned.
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pvtschultz
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 |
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Posted: Fri May 29th, 2009 08:59 pm |
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Spongebob wrote: The school-zone gun law is not legit. Firearm possession is only open to reasonable regulation.
We are legal to carry in them as far as anyone who can read should be concerned.
Except that it is a felony if convicted. You won't have to worry about gun laws anymore then.
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FLR72
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 10:09 pm |
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eleuthera,
Excellent and very important work! I am sure I speak for all of us when I say THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!
How hard was it to do this and would it be possible to do one for SE Wisconsin? I would be willing to lend a hand to do this but I may need a bit of help starting, otherwise I am very computer literate.
Last edited on Sat May 30th, 2009 10:10 pm by FLR72
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pvtschultz
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| Joined: | Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 |
| Location: | West Allis, WI |
| Posts: | 230 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 02:02 pm |
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FLR72 wrote: eleuthera,
Excellent and very important work! I am sure I speak for all of us when I say THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!
How hard was it to do this and would it be possible to do one for SE Wisconsin? I would be willing to lend a hand to do this but I may need a bit of help starting, otherwise I am very computer literate.
That was put together by Milwaukee PD and acquired via an open records request. The map uses a very liberal interpretation of "School Zone" to include the administrative buildings and athletic fields. Below I have included State Statutes 948.605 (GFSZ) and 948.61. SS 948.605 says on the grounds of a "school" which in 948.61 is the school proper and not athletic feilds and administration buildings.
948.605 Gun−free school zones. (1) DEFINITIONS. In this section:
(a) “Encased” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
(ac) “Firearm” does not include any beebee or pellet−firing gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any starter pistol.
(am) “Motor vehicle” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
(b) “School” has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
(c) “School zone” means any of the following:
1. In or on the grounds of a school.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
(2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is guilty of a Class I felony.
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm:
1. On private property not part of school grounds;
Snip.
It also includes the the facilities and properties outlined in SS 948.61:
(b) “School” means a public, parochial or private school which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school or high school.
(c) “School premises” means any school building, grounds, recreation area or athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated for school administration.
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GreenCountyPete
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 02:42 am |
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I am a father of 3 school age children , and i would like to see the thousand foot or just less than 1/5th of a mile restriction removed i would also like to see the Isreali model implimented having trusted and trained staff and adminitration carry concealed as well as implimenting trusted and trained parents , grandparents and members of the comunity to patrol the grounds looking like casual walkers carring concealed side arms
i was glad to see that many departments are now traning first responding officer confontation, of school and public place shooters , that can now be accounted for saving many lives. as it was so painfull to see footage from columbine and some of the other shootings where they rallied the troops before going inside in squads.leaving the shooters t finish thier work.
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GlockMeisterG21
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 04:35 am |
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GreenCountyPete wrote: I am a father of 3 school age children , and i would like to see the thousand foot or just less than 1/5th of a mile restriction removed i would also like to see the Isreali model implimented having trusted and trained staff and adminitration carry concealed as well as implimenting trusted and trained parents , grandparents and members of the comunity to patrol the grounds looking like casual walkers carring concealed side arms
i was glad to see that many departments are now traning first responding officer confontation, of school and public place shooters , that can now be accounted for saving many lives. as it was so painfull to see footage from columbine and some of the other shootings where they rallied the troops before going inside in squads.leaving the shooters t finish thier work.
[APPLAUSE]
My mother is a teacher and I would love to have her be able to carry on the job. I will always believe that "Gun free zones" when translated into whacko means "Come shoot me, I can't fight back"
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WI Patriot
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Apr 8th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Berlin, WI |
| Posts: | 101 |
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Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 10:34 pm |
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I have edited the Official Milwaukee School Zone Map to include the locations of shooting homicides occurring in 2008, and up to March 2009. The database I used,
http://data.jsonline.com/News/HomicideTracker/, is updated only to 3/25/09.
In Summary, most of the homicides by shooting occurred within or near the 1000 foot school zone borders. Unfortunately, I am having trouble uploading the .pdf document. Once I get that uploaded, you will see the folly of the "gun free zones".
Regards.
Last edited on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 10:45 pm by WI Patriot
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GlockMeisterG21
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 02:16 am |
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WI Patriot wrote: I have edited the Official Milwaukee School Zone Map to include the locations of shooting homicides occurring in 2008, and up to March 2009. The database I used,
http://data.jsonline.com/News/HomicideTracker/, is updated only to 3/25/09.
In Summary, most of the homicides by shooting occurred within or near the 1000 foot school zone borders. Unfortunately, I am having trouble uploading the .pdf document. Once I get that uploaded, you will see the folly of the "gun free zones".
Regards.
Sounds interesting, I look forward to seeing it!
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WI Patriot
Regular Member
| Joined: | Wed Apr 8th, 2009 |
| Location: | New Berlin, WI |
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Posted: Thu Jun 11th, 2009 01:24 pm |
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Attached is the school zone map with shooting homicide incidents identified. I will check the database periodically to look for updates, but I think this pretty much makes the case that "gun free zones" are merely gun free zones for law abiding citizens.
Regards
Attachment: MKE Homicides in School Zones.pdf (Downloaded 87 times)
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