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SD26
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| Joined: | Mon Aug 24th, 2009 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 10:10 pm |
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TFred wrotee:
"When we ultimately arrested him, he had an open carry pamphlet in his pocket and a digital pocket recorder that an officer says he was attempting to turn on while we were talking with him," Kupper explained. "When you couple those things with the fact that we eventually determined that the shots fired call came from his address, we felt that we were possibly being set up."
An investigation into the incident is ongoing.
Well, certainly, a pamphlet is enough to arrest someone...
Similarly for a recorder.
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TFred
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| Location: | Virginia USA |
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 10:12 pm |
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gollbladder13 wrote: Just saw that TMJ4 at 6pm tonight will be doing a segment on it. They said he tried to get arrested on purpose...
From the earlier posted article:
"When we ultimately arrested him, he had an open carry pamphlet in his pocket and a digital pocket recorder that an officer says he was attempting to turn on while we were talking with him," Kupper explained. "When you couple those things with the fact that we eventually determined that the shots fired call came from his address, we felt that we were possibly being set up."
If that's true, I worry this would be a step backwards for us rather than forward. Yes, the caller was within his rights after the police showed up, but a false 9-1-1 call is a serious matter, and could totally negate everything good that could have come out of this.
I thought there would be more to the story, and now I see it...
Here's hoping the news report is inaccurate, but this is why I wait until all details are sorted out before jumping on sides. I truely hope that he was not the caller for the shots fired call. Seems like he could get into more trouble than he bargained for otherwise...
Or... maybe he heard shots and called it in, then went out to see what was going on? Are you saying someone who owns a firearm is not allowed to report it when they hear shots fired outside their house? Or are you assuming, apparently as did the police, that just because he had a gun, he is the one who fired the shots?
All we can do is wait for more information.
TFred
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gollbladder13
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 10:22 pm |
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TFred wrote:
Or... maybe he heard shots and called it in, then went out to see what was going on? Are you saying someone who owns a firearm is not allowed to report it when they hear shots fired outside their house? Or are you assuming, apparently as did the police, that just because he had a gun, he is the one who fired the shots?
All we can do is wait for more information.
TFred
I'm not assuming anything. I'm waiting for more info, just as everybody else is.
We don't even know if there were actually shots fired or if the caller, whoever it was, was just lying to get the police in the area.
If he did hear shots, why would he go out to the porch rather than take cover, regardless of who was doing the shooting?
If you hear shots, it doesn't matter if you own a firearm or not if you call, but that's assuming there were shots fired int he first place.
Just because you own a gun when shots are fired does not mean you are the one who shot. Nobody is saying that, and nobody said anything anywhere close to the police thinking that (police said they want to make sure he wasn't a suspect, not he was being arrested because he was a suspect).
I'm still waiting to see the full story...
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Brass Magnet
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 10:24 pm |
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TFred wrote: A news link has shown up in Google News:
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/58583422.html
Racine Police: Open Carry Arrest May Have Been a Set-Up
By Dan O'Donnell
RACINE - The Racine Police Department believes a man arrested for obstructing officers might have been setting them up.
Officers received a call regarding shots fired and, when they responded, found the suspect with a holstered gun standing on his front porch, and asked him for identification.
"The officers wanted to know who he was and that he actually lived at the address where they found him," said Racine Police Sgt. Bernie Kupper. "We wanted to know that he did in fact live there and wasn't a suspect."
The man refused to provide identification, allegedly citing Attorney General JB Van Hollen's recent letter to Wisconsin's district attorneys promoting the state's open carry law.
"The suspect said he had a right to carry his gun and that the officers couldn't ask him for ID unless they arrested him," Kupper said.
Officers then arrested the man for obstructing them.
"When we ultimately arrested him, he had an open carry pamphlet in his pocket and a digital pocket recorder that an officer says he was attempting to turn on while we were talking with him," Kupper explained. "When you couple those things with the fact that we eventually determined that the shots fired call came from his address, we felt that we were possibly being set up."
An investigation into the incident is ongoing.
I'm not so sure if I buy this but I'll wait till I hear some more.
I mean, who would be stupid enough to call and report shot's fired from their own residence to "set up" the cops? Sounds like a conspiracy theory on the cops side of the ball, but of course; from them, people would believe it more readily.
Now, if the "suspect" came out and said it's a "set up" nobody would believe him.
I'm not going one way or the other on this just yet; just thinking out loud is all.
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SD26
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 10:26 pm |
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gollbladder13 wrote:
If he did hear shots, why would he go out to the porch rather than take cover, regardless of who was doing the shooting?
I'm still waiting to see the full story...
Well, hard to answer for anyone.
Do you take cover or allow your family to take cover while you check if it was firecrackers or something different?
Until we know more, we don't know a whole lot. Still, worth listening to.
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AaronS
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 10:29 pm |
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You are right, time will sort all this out real fast.
If I hear shots around my home I will call 911, and go outside to see if anyone is in need of help (I would also inform the 911 person of this). I would never just watch and wait for the cops to show up. I feel it my job, to help when and if I can, as an American. As far as any papers he had on him, I bet you $20 that I carry more paper in my back pocket then any OC'r in Wisconsin. I carry every law I can find, and the AG letter, and a Milw. PD letter, and BestBuy letter, and Roundys letter as well. I would hope this is never used against me...
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SD26
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 10:43 pm |
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AaronS wrote:I carry every law I can find, and the AG letter, and a Milw. PD letter, and BestBuy letter, and Roundys letter as well. I would hope this is never used against me...
Hey, gotta be prepared. Nothing wrong with that.
There are no "papers" that one can carry that just simply identify you as a "citizen", so you've got to be self sufficient. It's only reasonable to look out for yourself, so, I agree with what you're doing.
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DKSuddeth
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Posted: Thu Sep 10th, 2009 11:47 pm |
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I'm gonna wait for some more info also, but the police info does not pass my smell test so far. I find it hard to believe that an open carrier would call 911 for shots fired and then refuse to show ID when he made the call. If the racine cops go with this story, hopefully this guy gets a lawyer and they get 911 calls and tapes to determine if the call actually came from his house or cell
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gollbladder13
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 12:06 am |
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Just saw the news. Things still seem a little unclear, but the news reported that the call came from 3 houses down, while the police have (according to the news) said both from his house and 3 houses down.
I'm still not sure what to beleive in this, but he was my carry buddy for the hwy cleanup, so I'm sticking to his side pending more details...
Last edited on Fri Sep 11th, 2009 12:07 am by gollbladder13
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apierce918
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 12:14 am |
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If they had a call about shots fired, then reporting to the area and seeing a man with a gun, would that be enough to give them RAS for anything?
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P.I. Guy
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 12:14 am |
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 If this loser is any indication of what the rest of you ass-clowns are like, god save the queen.
Again the whole story is not being told here (as usual). This lawn sausage has got to be one of the dumbest O-C ass-clowner of all you dip sticks.
Police traced the 911 call back to his residence. What a dumb @#$%! 
Racine Police: Open Carry Arrest May Have Been a Set-Up
By Dan O'Donnell
RACINE - The Racine Police Department believes a man arrested for obstructing officers might have been setting them up.
Officers received a call regarding shots fired and, when they responded, found the suspect with a holstered gun standing on his front porch, and asked him for identification.
"The officers wanted to know who he was and that he actually lived at the address where they found him," said Racine Police Sgt. Bernie Kupper. "We wanted to know that he did in fact live there and wasn't a suspect."
The man refused to provide identification, allegedly citing Attorney General JB Van Hollen's recent letter to Wisconsin's district attorneys promoting the state's open carry law.
"The suspect said he had a right to carry his gun and that the officers couldn't ask him for ID unless they arrested him," Kupper said.
Officers then arrested the man for obstructing them.
"When we ultimately arrested him, he had an open carry pamphlet in his pocket and a digital pocket recorder that an officer says he was attempting to turn on while we were talking with him," Kupper explained. "When you couple those things with the fact that we eventually determined that the shots fired call came from his address, we felt that we were possibly being set up."
An investigation into the incident is ongoing.
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/58583422.html
Last edited on Fri Sep 11th, 2009 12:15 am by P.I. Guy
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AaronS
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 12:39 am |
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| Please do not feed him...
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AaronS
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 12:40 am |
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| The truth will come out, very soon.
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DKSuddeth
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 01:30 am |
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did we get that ignore feature yet?
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Passive101
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 01:39 am |
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This incident has taught me not to call 911 in this state.
Also we now see LE is actively stopping us from turning on our voice recorders. Turn them on BEFORE police are up to you!
Please let me know if we have an OC event. Racine is only an hour away from me.
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Parabellum
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 02:01 am |
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| Police were in the area to pick up a dead raccoon that someone shot with a BB or pellet gun. There was no report of shots fired. I can't believe how quickly you all fall for police propaganda. Carrying an OC Pamphlet while OCing makes you suspect foul play? The recorder, which we carry because police cannot be trusted to tell the truth makes you question whether or not Frank planned it? The call coming from the UPSTAIRS unit of the house (its a duplex) makes you wonder if he called the cops on himself? He didn't even know they were coming. Wait for the voice recorder to tell the story, the police didn't manage to delete it after all.
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Passive101
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 02:08 am |
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MARCI LAEHR TENUTA mtenuta@journaltimes.com | Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2009 4:10 pm | (12) Comments
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RACINE - The arrest of a Racine man openly carrying a gun on his front porch has sparked controversy that police believe may have been contrived.
Frank Hannan-Rock, 52, of 417 Luedtke Ave. was taken into custody Wednesday evening on a charge of obstructing. Racine police claim he wouldn't provide information to them during an active weapons violation investigation.
Reached by phone after being released from jail early Thursday, Hannan-Rock wouldn't comment. But friends and fellow supporters of open carry are outraged over his arrest.
Hubert Hoffman of Onalaksa called Hannan-Rock's arrest a persecution.
Hoffman, who made headlines as the organizer of an open-carry picnic in Onalaska earlier this year, met Hannan-Rock on an online forum at http://opencarry.org. He said he is angry that his friend was detained for eight hours and says he did nothing illegal.
"I don't understand how Frank ended up in jail," said Hoffman. "I'm angry about it. Police charged him with obstruction of justice because he refused to answer questions. You can not be charged with obstruction of justice by simply standing mute."
However, police are looking into whether the whole incident was a set-up by Hannan-Rock to test officers' reaction to him openly carrying a gun. They have determined the initial call to police about a weapons violation in the neighborhood came from his house.
"It appears to be a set-up, and we are checking it out," Police Chief Kurt Wahlen said.
"(Hannon-Rock) didn't get arrested for a weapons charge," Wahlen said. "We take weapons violations very seriously. We've suffered from a lot of gun violence in our community. If he had answered a few questions, this would have ended differently."
Police said officers were called to 405 Luedtke Ave. at 6:30 p.m. Wednesday for a report of a man with a gun. An anonymous caller told dispatchers that a man was shooting at raccoons in his backyard and was walking out to the street to reload his gun. The caller said she was concerned because there were children playing outside in the neighborhood.
The caller provided a description and said she thought the offender lived in the upper unit of a home at 405 Luedtke Ave.
When officers arrived at that address, residents there said the man who lives in the upper flat had left.
While in the area, police saw a group of people gathered on a porch at 417 Luedtke Ave. One man matched the suspect's description and was standing next to Hannan-Rock, who was openly carrying a holstered gun on his side.
Officers said they began asking Hannan-Rock questions and said they were investigating a weapons-discharge complaint. He answered their questions about the type of gun he was carrying but refused to give his name or any other information.
Police reports said the man told police that Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen told him he didn't have to answer their questions.
Police then handcuffed and arrested Hannan-Rock for obstructing. He was booked into the Racine County Jail as John Doe.
According to reports, police became suspicious about Hannan-Rock's motives when they were trying to talk to him, because he was fumbling with a digital voice recorder.
When he was arrested, he refused to walk past a certain point, telling officers that he would not be arrested for carrying a weapon within 1,000 feet of a school or church.
After being taken into custody, Hannan-Rock was found in possession of the recorder and a pamphlet on open carry.
Hoffman said it is very common for those who openly carry firearms to also carry voice recorders. "I carry a voice recorder with me every time I carry," he said. "We shouldn't have to."
He said they carry the recorders for the same reason as they carry their guns: for protection.
Hoffman said he was called by Hannan-Rock's wife a few hours after the incident occurred. A story about the arrest was posted to the http://opencarry.org site and Wahlen said he has been getting e-mails from people all over the country about it.
"We have to make sure there is no danger to others when we're handling a call for service," said police spokesman Sgt. Bernie Kupper. "We don't just arrest people because they have a gun."
Officers later determined Hannan-Rock was not the offender in the shots-fired call. No one had been arrested for that crime Thursday, but police are issuing a warrant recommendation for a man who lives at 405 Luedtke Ave.
Reports said officers found blood on the sidewalk in front of that house and believe someone could have been shooting at raccoons.
http://www.journaltimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_56888e4c-9e4f-11de-8895-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story
I think there is a lot we don't know about this incident. I'm waiting for more facts to come out.
Last edited on Fri Sep 11th, 2009 02:19 am by Passive101
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hugh jarmis
Centurion Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 02:24 am |
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Parabellum wrote:
Police were in the area to pick up a dead raccoon that someone shot with a BB or pellet gun. There was no report of shots fired. I can't believe how quickly you all fall for police propaganda. Carrying an OC Pamphlet while OCing makes you suspect foul play? The recorder, which we carry because police cannot be trusted to tell the truth makes you question whether or not Frank planned it? The call coming from the UPSTAIRS unit of the house (its a duplex) makes you wonder if he called the cops on himself? He didn't even know they were coming. Wait for the voice recorder to tell the story, the police didn't manage to delete it after all.
+1
The police arrested without cause. Now they are trying to make up cause after the fact.
Officers later determined Hannan-Rock was not the offender in the shots-fired call. No one had been arrested for that crime Thursday, but police are issuing a warrant recommendation for a man who lives at 405 Luedtke Ave.
Reports said officers found blood on the sidewalk in front of that house and believe someone could have been shooting at raccoons.
There you go. They admit there was an offender and it wasn't Frank. So the "he set them up" bs it out the window.
The police messed this up and they know it.
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 02:50 am |
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| Would someone please remind me why giving your name is a bad thing????
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gollbladder13
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 11th, 2009 03:19 am |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: Would someone please remind me why giving your name is a bad thing????
Agreed. Just because it is your right does not mean it is the right thing to do.
That being said, kudos to Frank for standing his ground as that is what he chose to do. I am not going to sit here and MMQB his decisions. I know I would not be as bold, but that's just me...
Still waiting for more details to unfold, but things are looking "better" so far...
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