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Lammie
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Sun Feb 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 680 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 01:19 pm |
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A person with a new idea is a crank until the idea succeeds.
Mark Twain
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Master Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 01:49 pm |
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"The most interesting information comes from children, for they tell all they know and then stop."
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 02:44 pm |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: J.Gleason wrote: It is time for everyone to step up with the emails.
Polite respectable E-mails..... I thought that was a very polite and respective email.
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 02:50 pm |
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Here is the next email I received from the NRA Guy Justin Austin,
RE: Fire Arms Carry Bill From: Austin, Jordan (jaustin@nrahq.org) Sent: Tue 11/03/09 9:55 PM To: 'James Gleason' (j.gleason@hotmail.com)
James, you and I had such a great phone conversation the other week and I was excited about what I thought we accomplished. The tone of your email below makes me feel that you didn’t listen to what I said at all or take any of it to heart. I have nothing wrong with your proposals. I read your entire email. The method of how you are communicating with the statehouse is not the correct approach. You and I discussed this at length. There is a right way to get your point across and be effective at influencing politics in Madison and I don’t feel you accomplished that with your emails. We should most likely talk on the phone about the details as to why I believe that, but briefly stated, the time of night the email was sent, openly copying every member of the statehouse, spelling errors, and not backing up your position with any support from all these people and organizations you claim to be representing. The legislators most likely will not know the “attitude” that’s out there by this one email sent to their inbox because that will be buried by 25-50 other emails by the time they turn on their computers in the morning. The fact that you mentioned below that you think I am running interference for the legislators of the statehouse is troubling if not down right insulting and leads me back to believing that you didn’t take anything to heart that we discussed. You are free do to what you want, that’s your right. However, if you choose to ignore some of the simple and friendly political advice I was providing you with and go off on your own in a way that is detrimental to gun owners, then you will get the response I provided you with below: “You’re not helping the cause.”
So if I am to understand,
The only people the legislators of this state are interested in dealing with are the NRA?
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 02:51 pm by J.Gleason
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:13 pm |
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J.Gleason wrote: So if I am to understand,
The only people the legislators of this state are interested in dealing with are the NRA?
He was not critical of the fact that you E-Mailed people, he was critical of the manor and the content of your E-mail. The fact that you are "just" an individual and do not actually represent any organizations takes away from your statements in which you inferred to. Since you did a blanket E-mail, it was not appropriate to make it so long. Most would open it, see it as just another rant and delete it. E-mails are too easily dismissed. They can not be treated like a message forum post when you draft them. Always draft them as a word type document where you can look at the structure, grammer, spelling, punctuation, etc and only when you are satisfied that it is a worthy document do you cut/paste and send it. He was trying to give you helpful suggestions and not blow you off or dissuade you from trying to get your voice heard.
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:28 pm |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: J.Gleason wrote: So if I am to understand,
The only people the legislators of this state are interested in dealing with are the NRA?
He was not critical of the fact that you E-Mailed people, he was critical of the manor and the content of your E-mail. The fact that you are "just" an individual and do not actually represent any organizations takes away from your statements in which you inferred to. Since you did a blanket E-mail, it was not appropriate to make it so long. Most would open it, see it as just another rant and delete it. E-mails are too easily dismissed. They can not be treated like a message forum post when you draft them. Always draft them as a word type document where you can look at the structure, grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc and only when you are satisfied that it is a worthy document do you cut/paste and send it. He was trying to give you helpful suggestions and not blow you off or dissuade you from trying to get your voice heard.
ENOUGH!
Enough of the Frucking criticisms, What the hell are you doing to make anything happen?
I spell checked and grammar checked everything. You know what I_K, I graduated college with a 4.0 I think I am smart enough to write a frickin letter.
The fact is this NRA man is only pissed off because he is dead set on the idea that there needs to be mandatory training which would be provided only by an NRA approved instructor. Now I know you don't believe that, but oh well.
Until I see evidence that any of you are sending out emails or letters and trying to make things happen in this state, don't criticize me for doing so.
That letter was not to long. It was an outline of talking points put together by many people. Everyone of those people had valid points that deserve to be heard.
The funny thing is I posted the letter and asked for criticism before I sent it, Where were you then?
Now that the NRA is willing to criticize it, so are you.
Let me make this clear, I will work and campaign against any legislative incumbent or candidate that does not support our Rights 100%.
Anyone who feels the same way is welcome to join in.
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:29 pm by J.Gleason
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comp45acp
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | Watertown, WI |
| Posts: | 140 |
| Status: |
Online
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:44 pm |
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J.Gleason wrote:
Here is the next email I received from the NRA Guy Justin Austin,
RE: Fire Arms Carry Bill From: Austin, Jordan (jaustin@nrahq.org) Sent: Tue 11/03/09 9:55 PM To: 'James Gleason' (j.gleason@hotmail.com)
James, you and I had such a great phone conversation the other week and I was excited about what I thought we accomplished. The tone of your email below makes me feel that you didn’t listen to what I said at all or take any of it to heart. I have nothing wrong with your proposals. I read your entire email. The method of how you are communicating with the statehouse is not the correct approach. You and I discussed this at length. There is a right way to get your point across and be effective at influencing politics in Madison and I don’t feel you accomplished that with your emails. We should most likely talk on the phone about the details as to why I believe that, but briefly stated, the time of night the email was sent, openly copying every member of the statehouse, spelling errors, and not backing up your position with any support from all these people and organizations you claim to be representing. The legislators most likely will not know the “attitude” that’s out there by this one email sent to their inbox because that will be buried by 25-50 other emails by the time they turn on their computers in the morning. The fact that you mentioned below that you think I am running interference for the legislators of the statehouse is troubling if not down right insulting and leads me back to believing that you didn’t take anything to heart that we discussed. You are free do to what you want, that’s your right. However, if you choose to ignore some of the simple and friendly political advice I was providing you with and go off on your own in a way that is detrimental to gun owners, then you will get the response I provided you with below: “You’re not helping the cause.”
So if I am to understand,
The only people the legislators of this state are interested in dealing with are the NRA?
Well said by Jordan. Your writing style, your threatening message and numerous spelling errors will not get you taken seriously by anyone in Madison. You are very abrasive in your writing. And you keep claiming "we" are with you. There are only a small number of people on this forum who are advocating none permitted carry with no training. Those things will not be in any bill that is considered by the legislature. Your actions are hurting our chances of getting a good carry bill in Wisconsin. Please stop.
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:48 pm |
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J.Gleason wrote: The fact is this NRA man is only pissed off because he is dead set on the idea that there needs to be mandatory training which would be provided only by an NRA approved instructor. Now I know you don't believe that, but oh well.
The funny thing is I posted the letter and asked for criticism before I sent it, Where were you then?
I don't follow every post in every thread. I did not see your letter before you sent it out. My post was not malicious, and was intended to be constructive. He is trying to be helpful and not hinder your voice from being heard. It is clearly a false statement to claim that the proposed bill will require exclusively "NRA" training.
Someone like this whose job it is to lobby Madison should be looked to as a resource. Any advice should be taken to heart and not merely dismissed as agenda driven. He already has a presence in and a relationship with Madison. In politics you must set some of your personal prejudices aside.
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:51 pm by Interceptor_Knight
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Nutczak
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:03 pm |
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What has the NRA done for WI in the last 20 years? I know of one thing they have backed, but we are not supposed to speak of it.
Find me one single NRA sanctioned shooting event (that they host regularly in almost every other state ) that takes place in WI, the NRA has been openly against the open carry movement until just recently.
Yes I am a member of the NRA, I have been for several decades. But truthfully they have not done crap for WI as a whole that I have ever seen.
They have negotiated too many rights away for me to feel comfortable enough to have them solely represent me in this current issue. Our legislators need to listen to their constituents first, not the NRA.
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:15 pm |
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comp45acp wrote: J.Gleason wrote:
Here is the next email I received from the NRA Guy Justin Austin,
RE: Fire Arms Carry Bill From: Austin, Jordan (jaustin@nrahq.org) Sent: Tue 11/03/09 9:55 PM To: 'James Gleason' (j.gleason@hotmail.com)
James, you and I had such a great phone conversation the other week and I was excited about what I thought we accomplished. The tone of your email below makes me feel that you didn’t listen to what I said at all or take any of it to heart. I have nothing wrong with your proposals. I read your entire email. The method of how you are communicating with the statehouse is not the correct approach. You and I discussed this at length. There is a right way to get your point across and be effective at influencing politics in Madison and I don’t feel you accomplished that with your emails. We should most likely talk on the phone about the details as to why I believe that, but briefly stated, the time of night the email was sent, openly copying every member of the statehouse, spelling errors, and not backing up your position with any support from all these people and organizations you claim to be representing. The legislators most likely will not know the “attitude” that’s out there by this one email sent to their inbox because that will be buried by 25-50 other emails by the time they turn on their computers in the morning. The fact that you mentioned below that you think I am running interference for the legislators of the statehouse is troubling if not down right insulting and leads me back to believing that you didn’t take anything to heart that we discussed. You are free do to what you want, that’s your right. However, if you choose to ignore some of the simple and friendly political advice I was providing you with and go off on your own in a way that is detrimental to gun owners, then you will get the response I provided you with below: “You’re not helping the cause.”
So if I am to understand,
The only people the legislators of this state are interested in dealing with are the NRA?
Well said by Jordan. Your writing style, your threatening message and numerous spelling errors will not get you taken seriously by anyone in Madison. You are very abrasive in your writing. And you keep claiming "we" are with you. There are only a small number of people on this forum who are advocating none permitted carry with no training. Those things will not be in any bill that is considered by the legislature. Your actions are hurting our chances of getting a good carry bill in Wisconsin. Please stop. And just another criticism from Compromise45acp.
What are you doing to make things happen? Besides being a training advocate?
I used the word "WE" because I was not taking credit for the outline I submitted and by the way there were no spelling or grammar errors.
The only thing you are worried about is getting that little piece of crap piece of paper in your hand that says CCW Permit and nothing more.
We all know Compromise45acp, that you are more than willing to let your right become a privilege all in the name of getting your "Godly" permit.
The letter was posted for criticisms before it was sent, why didn't you criticize it then?
Instead you Compromise45acp ( By the way the acp stands for "All for a Carry Permit") wait until the NRA criticizes it and then you jump on board. The perfect example of sheep!
Again, what significant project are you doing to make things happen?
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:35 pm by J.Gleason
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:18 pm |
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The NRA has invested significant dollars into WI ranges over the past few years. High Power shooting is still going strong in WI.
Apparently, the WI State representatives are already listening to the NRA. If we want credibility and wider public support, then we need to work with organizations like WI-FORCE (formerly the Wisconsin Rifle and Pistol Association WRPA) who are linked directly with thousands of WI shooters via the ranges. Having the official backing of recognized groups will increase credibility.
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:22 pm |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: J.Gleason wrote: The fact is this NRA man is only pissed off because he is dead set on the idea that there needs to be mandatory training which would be provided only by an NRA approved instructor. Now I know you don't believe that, but oh well.
The funny thing is I posted the letter and asked for criticism before I sent it, Where were you then?
I don't follow every post in every thread. I did not see your letter before you sent it out. My post was not malicious, and was intended to be constructive. He is trying to be helpful and not hinder your voice from being heard. It is clearly a false statement to claim that the proposed bill will require exclusively "NRA" training.
Someone like this whose job it is to lobby Madison should be looked to as a resource. Any advice should be taken to heart and not merely dismissed as agenda driven. He already has a presence in and a relationship with Madison. In politics you must set some of your personal prejudices aside.
Hmmm, just like the presence the NRA had in Green Bay when you and other members of OCDO showed up to face off with the City Council.
But, if you ask the NRA and read the News articles the NRA had all the credit for that one. It was a big win for the NRA.
Don't you remember that NRA guy standing beside you when you were speaking to the City Council?
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:30 pm |
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J.Gleason wrote: Hmmm, just like the presence the NRA had in Green Bay when you and other members of OCDO showed up to face off with the City Council.
But, if you ask the NRA and read the News articles the NRA had all the credit for that one. It was a big win for the NRA.
Don't you remember that NRA guy standing beside you when you were speaking to the City Council?
There was simply no need for them to show up at a City Council meeting. They had sent out an alert to inform people that it was going to happen and then recognized the council members who defeated the measure. It is entirely disingenuous to claim the NRA took credit for anything....
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5112
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=5115
It actually would have been better for PR is less people would have shown up, or of some who did if they would have said less. There was way too much rude behavior on "our" side. Some people have zero concept of politics and have no filter geween their brain and their mouth.
If we are doing our job, there is no need for the NRA to spend time and resources doing it. If we ask for support and that request is ignored, only then do we have something to whine about...
Give me 1 single thing that WGO has done for WI... Another group which only reports what others are doing and the only thing I can find that they have accomplished is running a Pro-Gun representative out of Madison.... With friends like that....
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:34 pm by Interceptor_Knight
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:32 pm |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: The NRA has invested significant dollars into WI ranges over the past few years. High Power shooting is still going strong in WI.
Apparently, the WI State representatives are already listening to the NRA. If we want credibility and wider public support, then we need to work with organizations like WI-FORCE (formerly the Wisconsin Rifle and Pistol Association WRPA) who are linked directly with thousands of WI shooters via the ranges. Having the official backing of recognized groups will increase credibility.
Hmmm, funny you should mention WIFORCE,
How about,
Izaac Walton League
Wisconsin Gun Owners
Wisconsin Patriots
The 107 Sportsman's clubs through out the state
Opencarry.org
ICarry
Oathkeepers
The Wisconsin NRA members
Do you think that all of these together will have enough influence to get some attention?
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:40 pm |
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If all of these groups were to join resources, there is nothing we could not do. Currently there exists no umbrella organization unifying them. The organizations you listed are not in concurrence and are many actually working against each other. All you illustrated is what is wrong with the gun movement in WI.
WGO currently has zero credibility, especially in Madison. Wisconsin Patriots is one of Doug's favorite punching bags and since you support his statements and accusations it is one of yours also. We can go down the list and see that other than being based in WI or having an agenda regarding WI, they have little in common regarding the issues at hand.
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:43 pm |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: J.Gleason wrote: Hmmm, just like the presence the NRA had in Green Bay when you and other members of OCDO showed up to face off with the City Council.
But, if you ask the NRA and read the News articles the NRA had all the credit for that one. It was a big win for the NRA.
Don't you remember that NRA guy standing beside you when you were speaking to the City Council?
There was simply no need for them to show up at a City Council meeting. They had sent out an alert to inform people that it was going to happen and then recognized the council members who defeated the measure. It is entirely disingenuous to claim the NRA took credit for anything....
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5112
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=5115
Then you didn't read the news articles
It actually would have been better for PR is less people would have shown up, or of some who did if they would have said less. There was way too much rude behavior on "our" side. Some people have zero concept of politics and have no filter geween their brain and their mouth.
Typos? It is never a bad thing for the tax payers to stand up and be heard. Again, you are suggesting that only you should have been allowed to speak, therefore you get the credit.
If we are doing our job, there is no need for the NRA to spend time and resources doing it. If we ask for support and that request is ignored, only then do we have something to whine about...
What is our job? Would that be writing letters and emails? Picketing in front of a legislators office or home?
Give me 1 single thing that WGO has done for WI... Another group which only reports what others are doing and the only thing I can find that they have accomplished is running a Pro-Gun representative out of Madison.... With friends like that....
Some times it is best to keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Didn't you, yourself say that all of the organizations in Wisconsin need to work together?
The reason nothing is getting done right in this state is because all anyone wants to do is sit around and talk about what needs to be done. Get off your A55es and do something to make it happen. Quit worrying about hurting a legislators feelings. If they can't take the heat then they should give the job to some one else.
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comp45acp
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | Watertown, WI |
| Posts: | 140 |
| Status: |
Online
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:45 pm |
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J.Gleason wrote:
comp45acp wrote: J.Gleason wrote:
Here is the next email I received from the NRA Guy Justin Austin,
RE: Fire Arms Carry Bill From: Austin, Jordan (jaustin@nrahq.org) Sent: Tue 11/03/09 9:55 PM To: 'James Gleason' (j.gleason@hotmail.com)
James, you and I had such a great phone conversation the other week and I was excited about what I thought we accomplished. The tone of your email below makes me feel that you didn’t listen to what I said at all or take any of it to heart. I have nothing wrong with your proposals. I read your entire email. The method of how you are communicating with the statehouse is not the correct approach. You and I discussed this at length. There is a right way to get your point across and be effective at influencing politics in Madison and I don’t feel you accomplished that with your emails. We should most likely talk on the phone about the details as to why I believe that, but briefly stated, the time of night the email was sent, openly copying every member of the statehouse, spelling errors, and not backing up your position with any support from all these people and organizations you claim to be representing. The legislators most likely will not know the “attitude” that’s out there by this one email sent to their inbox because that will be buried by 25-50 other emails by the time they turn on their computers in the morning. The fact that you mentioned below that you think I am running interference for the legislators of the statehouse is troubling if not down right insulting and leads me back to believing that you didn’t take anything to heart that we discussed. You are free do to what you want, that’s your right. However, if you choose to ignore some of the simple and friendly political advice I was providing you with and go off on your own in a way that is detrimental to gun owners, then you will get the response I provided you with below: “You’re not helping the cause.”
So if I am to understand,
The only people the legislators of this state are interested in dealing with are the NRA?
Well said by Jordan. Your writing style, your threatening message and numerous spelling errors will not get you taken seriously by anyone in Madison. You are very abrasive in your writing. And you keep claiming "we" are with you. There are only a small number of people on this forum who are advocating none permitted carry with no training. Those things will not be in any bill that is considered by the legislature. Your actions are hurting our chances of getting a good carry bill in Wisconsin. Please stop. And just another criticism from Compromise45acp.
What are you doing to make things happen? Besides being a training advocate?
I used the word "WE" because I was not taking credit for the outline I submitted.
The only thing you are worried about is getting that little piece of crap piece of paper in your hand that says CCW Permit and nothing more.
We all know Compromise45acp, that you are more than willing to let your right become a privilege all in the name of getting your "Godly" permit.
The letter was posted for criticisms before it was sent, why didn't you criticize it then?
Instead you Compromise45acp ( By the way the acp stands for "All for a Carry Permit") wait until the NRA criticizes it and then you jump on board. The perfect example of sheep!
Again, what significant project are you doing to make things happen?
What a pathetic and juvenile response J. Gleason. People are trying to point out to you how deficient your writing skills are but the only thing you can do is lash out. Yes, I am all for a carry permit as are most thinking gun owners in this state. It would pretty much mirror the MN permit except allow for un-permitted open carry as we have now with the restrictions that are now in place. As far as my personal contribution-I have made several trips to Madison with others to speak with legislators and present a proposed bill-how many times have you been there? I would like to suggest you print out your proposal and drive over to Madison to see you senator, representative, anyone else who will listen and present it to them. Ask them what are the odds of getting it passed. This will be a reality check for you. In addition, myself and others from the Wisconsin Patriots are involved in a number of projects behind the scenes that we aren't making public yet. One of them will be made public hopefully within the next few weeks. You, Doug and a couple of others will blow it off of course as you do any legitimate effort at improving conditions in this state. You seem to think that sitting around pounding out emails and snotty responses on forums is what gets things done. Good luck.
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:47 pm |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: If all of these groups were to join resources, there is nothing we could not do. Currently there exists no umbrella organization unifying them. The organizations you listed are not in concurrence and are many actually working against each other. All you illustrated is what is wrong with the gun movement in WI.
WGO currently has zero credibility, especially in Madison. Wisconsin Patriots is one of Doug's favorite punching bags and since you support his statements and accusations it is one of yours also. We can go down the list and see that other than being based in WI or having an agenda regarding WI, they have little in common regarding the issues at hand.
Show me one posting in which I criticized the Wisconsin Patriots. You know what they say about the word "assume."
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J.Gleason
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:52 pm |
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comp45acp wrote:
What a pathetic and juvenile response J. Gleason. People are trying to point out to you how deficient your writing skills are but the only thing you can do is lash out. Yes, I am all for a carry permit as are most thinking gun owners in this state. It would pretty much mirror the MN permit except allow for un-permitted open carry as we have now with the restrictions that are now in place. As far as my personal contribution-I have made several trips to Madison with others to speak with legislators and present a proposed bill-how many times have you been there? I would like to suggest you print out your proposal and drive over to Madison to see you senator, representative, anyone else who will listen and present it to them. Ask them what are the odds of getting it passed. This will be a reality check for you. In addition, myself and others from the Wisconsin Patriots are involved in a number of projects behind the scenes that we aren't making public yet. One of them will be made public hopefully within the next few weeks. You, Doug and a couple of others will blow it off of course as you do any legitimate effort at improving conditions in this state. You seem to think that sitting around pounding out emails and snotty responses on forums is what gets things done. Good luck.
As a matter of fact I did speak with State Senator Lasee in person about this Bill and I mentioned the outline I submitted in the email and he actually agrees with the outline. He also stated that he was sure Representative Ott would be on board as well.
So I am sure we will all see your name on this miraculous piece of legislation that you and the WP are writing, when it gets tossed out right?
As far as I know the Wisconsin Patriots do not have any more standing then the WGO, can you prove otherwise?
By the way why don't you submit a copy of this alleged work here so we can all see your writing skills?
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:55 pm by J.Gleason
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 04:56 pm |
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J.Gleason wrote: Show me one posting in which I criticized the Wisconsin Patriots. You know what they say about the word "assume."
Any time you jump on the train which demonizes trainers. Gene German
(ccwtrainer on many forums) is the force behind the WI Patriots. A primary goal is to get a CCW permit system in WI.
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