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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 10:14 am |
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In accordance with Wisconsin Adminstrative Code NR 10.09(2) it is illegal to possess a gun (it does not state firearm, it states "gun" so does that include pellet guns and airsoft/paintball also?) in any zone which has a regular deer season during the 24 hours prior to the season open. Within city limits is still within the zone. The only exceptions are for hunting on licensed game farms and shooting preserves, hunting waterfoul if the season is open and target shooting at established ranges. The guideline book that you get with your license states that landowners and their immediate family members who live with them may target shoot on their own land, but I can find no reference to this in the code. There are no exceptions listed for law enforcement, etc. That means anyone who has a "gun" out of its case is in violation including LEOs.(warden trying to issue the ticket included)..
This is an excellent illustration of a law we need to get taken off of the books.
Last edited on Sat Nov 7th, 2009 12:09 pm by Interceptor_Knight
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Lammie
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Sun Feb 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 680 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 11:45 am |
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| You forgot to mention another stupid part of this restriction. It says "regular deer season". What does that reallly mean. Does that mean the usual Thankgiving week season or does that mean those zones listed as "regular" on the zone map. I already know the answer. I just bring it up to illustrate another area of confusion.
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 12:07 pm |
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Lammie wrote: You forgot to mention another stupid part of this restriction. It says "regular deer season". What does that reallly mean. Does that mean the usual Thankgiving week season or does that mean those zones listed as "regular" on the zone map. I already know the answer. I just bring it up to illustrate another area of confusion.
It specifies "as defined in N.R. 10.01 (3)(e)". Which reads:
firearm season beginning on the Saturday immediately preceding The Thanksgiving Holiday and continuing for 9 consecutive days
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Lammie
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Sun Feb 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 680 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Nov 7th, 2009 12:40 pm |
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| Aw so. I stand corrected.
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JimE
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 06:06 pm |
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I'd assume this law came about to prevent a deer hunter's temptation to pop a deer a day early. Once again the DNR is assuming guns are for hunting and everyone's a f&^%ing deer hunter. That's the only intent of this law that I can see. Anyone planning on carrying on Nov 20th anyway?
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Master Doug Huffman
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 06:19 pm |
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Absolutely! Everyday.
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pvtschultz
Campaign Veteran
| Joined: | Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 |
| Location: | West Allis, WI |
| Posts: | 230 |
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Offline
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 06:49 pm |
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| Should do a roadside clean-up during the carry ban! It would be easy to get the courts to strike this one down.
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AaronS
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 06:53 pm |
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JimE wrote: I'd assume this law came about to prevent a deer hunter's temptation to pop a deer a day early. Once again the DNR is assuming guns are for hunting and everyone's a f&^%ing deer hunter. That's the only intent of this law that I can see. Anyone planning on carrying on Nov 20th anyway?
The Wisconsin DNR will never take away my right to self protection. I have no respect for the DNR at all any more. I lost it over the years.
In my mind Art.1. Sec. 25 tells me the DNR can get bent. On this one, I do not care at all what "laws" the DNR has set for us. Self protection is a right in Wisconsin, and the DNR will not take it away from me.
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Nutczak
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 9th, 2009 07:47 pm |
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JimE wrote: I'd assume this law came about to prevent a deer hunter's temptation to pop a deer a day early.
Yup, that is the theory.
They use the same logic when it comes to issuing an archery license and when it can be legally used.
You can by an archery license and it is valid immediatly upon issuance up until the day archery season is open.
But if you buy the license once the season has already started, the license is not valid until 3 full days after the date your purchased it, excluding the day of purchase.
Why? Because they think it will stop poachers from shooting a deer first, then buying a tag for it after the fact.
I plan on carrying the day before the season opens, and I am right in the thick of the most major enforcement zone!!
Do you think the police tag a criminal carrying a gun illegally on the day before deer season with the extra ticket? They obviously ignore the GFSZ's and do not ticket for that unless you are an otherwise legal person carrying in accordance with the state & federal constitution.
Confederate soul got nailed on the GFSZ law a few months back, any word on his progress? or if his attorney is going after the GFSZ's as unconstitutional in WI as they were ruled at the federal level?
Won't the upcoming incorporation hearings also address this? this may help. Theseus in CA too. he was just found guilty on the GFSZ BS while on private property!!
Yup, Teseus was on private property wearing an unloaded pistol on his side, he gave the police his ID (to seem cooperative and not to be a dick) and a few eeeks later they came to his home with an arrest warrant, nailed him on the GFSZ, and improper storage of firearms in his home!!
That is the exact reason I do not carry ID when I am O-C'ing.
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Glock34
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 08:13 am |
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AaronS wrote: JimE wrote: I'd assume this law came about to prevent a deer hunter's temptation to pop a deer a day early. Once again the DNR is assuming guns are for hunting and everyone's a f&^%ing deer hunter. That's the only intent of this law that I can see. Anyone planning on carrying on Nov 20th anyway?
The Wisconsin DNR will never take away my right to self protection. I have no respect for the DNR at all any more. I lost it over the years.
In my mind Art.1. Sec. 25 tells me the DNR can get bent. On this one, I do not care at all what "laws" the DNR has set for us. Self protection is a right in Wisconsin, and the DNR will not take it away from me.
I agree with you Aaron. I will carry on that day just like I oc everyday.
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Glock34
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 08:16 am |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: In accordance with Wisconsin Adminstrative Code NR 10.09(2) it is illegal to possess a gun (it does not state firearm, it states "gun" so does that include pellet guns and airsoft/paintball also?) in any zone which has a regular deer season during the 24 hours prior to the season open. Within city limits is still within the zone. The only exceptions are for hunting on licensed game farms and shooting preserves, hunting waterfoul if the season is open and target shooting at established ranges. The guideline book that you get with your license states that landowners and their immediate family members who live with them may target shoot on their own land, but I can find no reference to this in the code. There are no exceptions listed for law enforcement, etc. That means anyone who has a "gun" out of its case is in violation including LEOs.(warden trying to issue the ticket included)..
This is an excellent illustration of a law we need to get taken off of the books.
Thanks for the heads up, Interceptor, yes this one needs to go. But I plan on OCing regardless. It's now something I do on a daily basis.
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Nutczak
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 03:14 pm |
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I have been thinking about this law for a few moments, Since it is only listed in the DNR hunting regulation handbook. I am believe the intention was to only prohibit people that hold a valid hunting license from possessing a firearm. or another thought is they want to keep people out of the deer hunting wooded areas to give the opening day hunters a better chance to bag a deer. (I am still leaning towards believing it is an effort to stop poaching)
Even thought the state constitution has listed hunting as a regulated right for Wisconsin residents, this prohibition lowers it to a privilege again.
If you are looking through the published WI statutes for firearm related laws, that particular law is not found. you either need to be a licensed hunter that has read the regulation book or you will have no clue of the prohibition.
I have decided to forgo deer hunting this season, I will be carrying a sidearm during the time deer hunting with rifles and muzzleloaders is open. With the increased number of large predatory animals in the northern part of the state. I will not venture into the woods without a firearm in my posession.
Opening day of Deer season is treated like a major holiday up here, many non-foodservice business's close on that day because nobody is willing work!
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Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 05:14 pm |
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Nutczak wrote: I have been thinking about this law for a few moments, Since it is only listed in the DNR hunting regulation handbook. I am believe the intention was to only prohibit people that hold a valid hunting license from possessing a firearm. or another thought is they want to keep people out of the deer hunting wooded areas to give the opening day hunters a better chance to bag a deer. (I am still leaning towards believing it is an effort to stop poaching)
If you are looking through the published WI statutes for firearm related laws, that particular law is not found. you either need to be a licensed hunter that has read the regulation book or you will have no clue of the prohibition.
Opening day of Deer season is treated like a major holiday up here, many non-foodservice business's close on that day because nobody is willing work!
Interceptor_Knight wrote: In accordance with Wisconsin Adminstrative Code NR 10.09(2).
The Administrative Code is published in the same place that the Statutes are. A citation under Administrative code is like a traffic ticket. A fine with no jail time. It is a civil forfeiture unlike poaching which is a crime. Hunting/Fishing rules under Chapter 29 Statutes carry penalties up to and including felony charges.
I spent over an hour talking to a lawyer and to a Warden on the phone. The Warden said that the exception for land owners and immediate family members (living with them) to target practice was an administrative enforcement decision. A legislature wanted to clean up the rules and place them in the statutes. This would take the power away from the DNR. The DNR did not like this so they changed the enforcement policy and published it in the little rule book without changing the Code to pacify the legislature. He suggested I petition the Natural Resources Board if I want something changed. I say we get a hold of our representatives and change some of the "laws" in chapter 29.
The 24 hour period is 50 or so years old and was an attempt to stop hunters from poaching a deer for camp food before the season opened. I asked him about open carry and he stated that as a practical matter, the intention is for hunting and that you would not be cited for Open Carry unless you were in a hunting area. Of course none of this opinion is binding. The lawyer said that any citation could easily be challenged. I also brought up the fact about no law enforcement exceptions and the Warden said that the Administrative code is administrative policy so no LEO would ever be cited. We also talked Concealed Carry. The Warden indicated that in a hunting setting you would not likely be cited for having an encased firearm in your passenger compartment unlike in a neighborhood in the city. He also had no concerns about ATVs and encased firearms being concealed as the law requires them to be so.
Last edited on Wed Nov 11th, 2009 05:15 pm by Interceptor_Knight
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Glock34
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Wed Nov 11th, 2009 06:23 pm |
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Interceptor_Knight wrote: Nutczak wrote: I have been thinking about this law for a few moments, Since it is only listed in the DNR hunting regulation handbook. I am believe the intention was to only prohibit people that hold a valid hunting license from possessing a firearm. or another thought is they want to keep people out of the deer hunting wooded areas to give the opening day hunters a better chance to bag a deer. (I am still leaning towards believing it is an effort to stop poaching)
If you are looking through the published WI statutes for firearm related laws, that particular law is not found. you either need to be a licensed hunter that has read the regulation book or you will have no clue of the prohibition.
Opening day of Deer season is treated like a major holiday up here, many non-foodservice business's close on that day because nobody is willing work!
Interceptor_Knight wrote: In accordance with Wisconsin Adminstrative Code NR 10.09(2).
The Administrative Code is published in the same place that the Statutes are. A citation under Administrative code is like a traffic ticket. A fine with no jail time. It is a civil forfeiture unlike poaching which is a crime. Hunting/Fishing rules under Chapter 29 Statutes carry penalties up to and including felony charges.
I spent over an hour talking to a lawyer and to a Warden on the phone. The Warden said that the exception for land owners and immediate family members (living with them) to target practice was an administrative enforcement decision. A legislature wanted to clean up the rules and place them in the statutes. This would take the power away from the DNR. The DNR did not like this so they changed the enforcement policy and published it in the little rule book without changing the Code to pacify the legislature. He suggested I petition the Natural Resources Board if I want something changed. I say we get a hold of our representatives and change some of the "laws" in chapter 29.
The 24 hour period is 50 or so years old and was an attempt to stop hunters from poaching a deer for camp food before the season opened. I asked him about open carry and he stated that as a practical matter, the intention is for hunting and that you would not be cited for Open Carry unless you were in a hunting area. Of course none of this opinion is binding. The lawyer said that any citation could easily be challenged. I also brought up the fact about no law enforcement exceptions and the Warden said that the Administrative code is administrative policy so no LEO would ever be cited. We also talked Concealed Carry. The Warden indicated that in a hunting setting you would not likely be cited for having an encased firearm in your passenger compartment unlike in a neighborhood in the city. He also had no concerns about ATVs and encased firearms being concealed as the law requires them to be so.
Thanks for putting in the work & taking time out of your busy day Interceptor !
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JimE
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 17th, 2009 06:10 pm |
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So it sounds like a warden would be the only one likely to issue a citation for this?
Does anyone know someone that ever got cited for this? Depending on what they were up to I imagine a citation could be grounds for a constitutional challenge. It seems this law is getting whittled down over the years. They have exceptions for target shooting landowners, ranges, game farms, and water fowl hunters already. Basically all this law prohibits is normal small game hunting. Really, what's the logic to that? Why the exception for waterfowl hunting?? Squirrel and rabbit hunters must not have as much clout.
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