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MatieA
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 09:14 pm |
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AB wrote:
I personally spoke with an officer at Pine Bluffs Police Dept and he told me that they would indeed arrest anyone that open carrys in Pine Bluffs city limits and there would be a $750 fine.
From my conversation with the officer it appears that he was told to tell people this, another interesting thing is he said he has never arrested anyone for this offense.
I had him site the city code and reviewed it with him and told him it could very easily be challenged, at that point he referred me to the city attorney which appears to be a private firm.
I contacted the the attorney and spoke with one of the partners and I was told another individual would get a call back tomorrow.
I believe they will have no option other than interpret the law properly, but we will see what happens when the city attorney gets back to me.
Anthony Bouchard
Executive Director
Wyoming Gun Owners Association
http://www.wyominggunowners.org
Wow, I appreciate someone else getting involved. Please let me know what you find out.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 10:26 pm |
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BB62 wrote: Possess: my usage of the term, and the sources I have checked use words like "have, hold, own, control".
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/possess
From what source do you derive one of the "plain meanings" of possess to be "to carry"?
Sounds like you got carry covered already from Websters.
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Thu Feb 12th, 2009 06:32 pm |
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Mike wrote: BB62 wrote: Possess: my usage of the term, and the sources I have checked use words like "have, hold, own, control".
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/possess
From what source do you derive one of the "plain meanings" of possess to be "to carry"?
Sounds like you got carry covered already from Websters.
Cite? Possess=carry, where?
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Mjolnir
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 393 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 02:59 am |
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PB is a town unique in many ways, a old mayor had a stop sign put in front of his house so he would not have to stop when going out of his driveway and so people would have to stop in front of his house.
Lots of minors in town causing problems, shooting windows out with a BB gun & such.
Can you still go to the police dispatcher and sign the key out to the police shooting range??? Was nice that you could shoot on the range free of charge.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 03:43 am |
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BB62 wrote: Mike wrote: BB62 wrote: Possess: my usage of the term, and the sources I have checked use words like "have, hold, own, control".
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/possess
From what source do you derive one of the "plain meanings" of possess to be "to carry"?
Sounds like you got carry covered already from Websters.
Cite? Possess=carry, where?
Your equation is in error - carry is not the same as possess but included within the term possess - possess is the broadest of terms, inclusive of carrying, e.g., to hold. Somthing possessed is not necessarily caried, but may be carried, e.g., a handgun in a car is possessed yet not normally considered carried on or about a person for purposes of carry statutes unless the gun is within arms reach (wingspan rule). A person carrying a holstered handgun clearly also possesses it.
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MatieA
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Feb 16th, 2009 05:09 am |
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Mjolnir wrote: PB is a town unique in many ways, a old mayor had a stop sign put in front of his house so he would not have to stop when going out of his driveway and so people would have to stop in front of his house.
Lots of minors in town causing problems, shooting windows out with a BB gun & such.
Can you still go to the police dispatcher and sign the key out to the police shooting range??? Was nice that you could shoot on the range free of charge.
The Pine Bluffs Sportsman's Club has leased the Range, and has done a lot of improvements, there is a fee for membership, but I feel it is worth it for all that they do. They also support our local 4-H club, by letting us use the range and by supplying money,and ammo.Last edited on Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 05:27 pm by MatieA
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AB
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Feb 18th, 2009 03:23 pm |
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Pine Bluffs Hates your Constitutional Rights
In a conversation with City Attorney Alex Davidson it was confirmed that Pine Bluffs has taken a stance to arrest and impose a fine of $750 to anyone open carrying a firearm.
Boycott Pinebluffs but don’t do it quietly let the business owners know that you will be doing so and tell them about the Un-Constitutional Policy in their town.
For anyone reading this article traveling I-80 on the Nebraska side, make your pit-stops before or after Pine Bluffs, the town that hates your constitutional rights.
Pine Bluffs Town Clerk (307) 245-3746
Pine Bluffs Police (307) 245-3777
City Attorney Alex Davidson (307) 635-4111
Wyoming Gun Owners Association
http://wyominggunowners.org/
Last edited on Tue Feb 24th, 2009 04:06 pm by AB
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Wed Feb 18th, 2009 09:54 pm |
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Mike wrote: BB62 wrote: Cite? Possess=carry, where?
Your equation is in error - carry is not the same as possess but included within the term possess... A person carrying a holstered handgun clearly also possesses it.
I think most people think of possession in static terms, and "carry" in a distinctively different way. You have yet to cite to authority anything to dispute that - so you can represent me free of charge in my "possess" vs "carry" case. 
Moving on, it seems like AB has come up a more threatening matter, W.S. 15-1-103(a)(xviii), Wyoming's version of West Allis' wet dream - "disturbing the peace" on steriods.
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Arkyhog
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 04:30 am |
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Here are some email addresses of a business in Pine Bluffs:
Pine Bluffs Chamber of Commerce: pinebluffs@rtconnect.net
Pine Bluffs RV Park: snowardt@aol.com
and the Lions Club in Pine Bluffs:
webmaster@pinebluffslions.org
Some interested individuals might send some quick emails telling them WHY they are getting bad press and WHY they won't be stopping in their town to spend $$$.
I'm going to, because I am going antelope hunting in Wyoming in September.
Last edited on Thu Feb 19th, 2009 04:44 am by Arkyhog
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Mjolnir
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 393 |
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Offline
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 04:47 pm |
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Have all the Wyoming residents contacted the state Legislature along with all non Wyoming residents. I did sent a polite and respectful e-mail to the Governor. Let them know what you think of this and how it can and will effect you and the state of Wyoming.
House:
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/LegislatorSummary/LegislatorList.aspx?strHouse=H&strStatus=N
Senate:
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/LegislatorSummary/LegislatorList.aspx?strHouse=S&strStatus=N
Governor Dave:
http://governor.wy.gov/contact-dave/default.html
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ricecountyrefugee
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 05:27 pm |
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AB,
If I wish to contribute to Wyoming Gun Owners, why should I need to send a money order to the state of Virginia ? (I don't use credit cards)
Why is there no WYOMING contact information listed on the website ?
Why is there no human contact name on the website ?
Refugee
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AB
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 07:26 pm |
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Dear Ricecountyrefugee,
WyGO recently updated the website and also a pay by card link, there was a graphic image (to prevent Spam) that included the following contact info:
Included in original doc
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
It should have been replaced we just haven't got to it yet.
Previously one could join/contribute only by mail , however almost all that did complained that there wasn't a way to pay on-line.
I do want to add that we use secure credit card processing out of Virginia and that is nothing out of the norm and I would expect them not to correspond with you unless you have used their system to contribute.
I do apologize for what seems like a deliberate omission, I will make sure the graphic is replaced within 48 hours.
With all that being said, I am personally working on other Strategies, some not under WyGO's name including PAC Funds, to directly affect the State-wide election of Gun-Grabbers.
It is through these strategies we will be most effective against the opposition.
However State-Wide support is needed to achieve the goal.
Anthony Bouchard
Executive Director
Wyoming Gun Owners Association
Phone number was included in original doc
http://wyominggunowners.org/
Last edited on Tue Feb 24th, 2009 01:31 pm by AB
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ricecountyrefugee
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Feb 19th, 2009 09:17 pm |
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Hi Anthony,
I sent another message through the text box at the Wyoming Gun Owners website. Here's a copy of what I sent at about 1400 today, February 19, 2009
"Thanks for the contact on the opencarry forum. I don't know why the email address didn't work for you, I sent a test message to myself just a few minutes ago and that worked fine. I may have made a mistake typing earlier.
The address [ email address] should work OK.
I still don't use credit cards and although you consider the credit card processor "secure", I consider the fact that it's in Virginia suspicious. I'll consider support of Wyoming Gun Owners when I can send a money order to a Wyoming address and also have an email address that I can believe in other than this text box routine.
rice county refugee"
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OCGLOCK
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 23rd, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 9 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 01:37 am |
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| I started this thread last year and as you can see there have been many more problems around the state of WY then you may think. We need to work hard and take these issues to the state legislature and fix this once and for all. Wyoming is the last great state of freedom and is worth fighting for. Please don't stand by and let these anti-gunners ruin this great state!
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Mjolnir
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 393 |
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Offline
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Posted: Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 10:51 pm |
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Article in Cheyennes paper http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2009/02/22/featured_story/01top_02-22-09.txt we need to let Cheyenne know what we think of this issue and how we are watching Wyoming to see what they do.
While I want to move back to Wyoming some day, issues like this make me think that might not be such a great idea, unless the people of Wyoming can restore the freedoms the state is taking away.
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Arkyhog
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 03:12 am |
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| duplicate post Last edited on Tue Feb 24th, 2009 03:15 am by Arkyhog
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Arkyhog
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 03:12 am |
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MatieA wrote: Mjolnir wrote: PB is a town unique in many ways, a old mayor had a stop sign put in front of his house so he would not have to stop when going out of his driveway and so people would have to stop in front of his house.
Lots of minors in town causing problems, shooting windows out with a BB gun & such.
Can you still go to the police dispatcher and sign the key out to the police shooting range??? Was nice that you could shoot on the range free of charge.
The Pine Bluffs Sportsman's Club has purchased the Range, and has done a lot of improvements, there is a fee for membership, but I feel it is worth it for all that they do. They also support our local 4-H club, by letting us use the range and by supplying money,and ammo.
I received this email from the Sportsman Club this afternoon:
" I am the president of the Pine Bluffs Sportsman Club.
I don't know where you got your information about the town of Pine Bluffs being anti gun BUT it couldn't be farther from the truth!!!!!!
Just to let you know the shooting range sits on town property. We work with the town government to make it a great place to shoot. Pine Bluffs lets the gun club hold 2 gun shows at the community center every year at no charge to our club.
We have 14 trap league teams that shoot trap every Tuesday evening and Sunday afternoon during the summer. NO one has ever been harassed about carrying guns. Every June we host the Laramie County 4H Shooting Sports county meet that brings in over 200 youth shooters for a weekend of shooting competition. The local 4H Shooting Sports Club has over 85 youth shooters participating in the different disciplines at our club from April through July. We hold open shoots 2 times a month with varying numbers of people shooting hand guns, rifles, and shot guns.
IN the 18 yrs that the range has been in operation there has been NO ONE harassed about openly carrying guns.
Our club has 160 members that use the shooting in 1 form of shooting or the other. So I wouldn't say that Pine Bluffs is Anti Gun or against any ones 2nd amendment rights. ! more reason not to believe everything you read in some web site, or wherever you got your information from. BY the way the Town Attorney Is a member of our club and is our clubs attorney and a very supportive member of our club along with his wife.
President of the Pine Bluffs Sportman's Club
John Wise
I wrote back:
"I am getting this information from a website which supports the open carry of handguns in Wyoming . This is a national website, and I am getting this information from residents in Wyoming who post this information. I will provide you a link to the specific information I am talking about, which describes a conversation with a police officer in Pine Bluffs.
Pine Bluffs conversation
I truly hope what you are telling me is the honest truth. I would hate to visit your town and be thrown in jail. If you want, I will post your letter to the website as a rebuttal to all which is being posted there. From your description, Pine Bluffs sounds like a town I would love to live in. Thank you very much for your answer.
He wrote back:
"Put it up if you want to i am just telling the truth. actually i feel that if 1 feels they have has to carry a gun in this town or most towns in Wyoming they need to buy a M1 abram's tank to drive to the coffee shop if they are that scared of shadows. I am 59 yrs old and have lived in Wyoming all but the years i served in the military, have hunted ,fished, traveled all over the state and have never felt the need to carry a gun for protection. I do have a concieled carry permit but very seldom carry i see no need i guess i dont feel that thretened.....John Wise"
]
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Mjolnir
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu May 17th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 393 |
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Offline
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Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 04:38 am |
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He wrote back:
"Put it up if you want to i am just telling the truth. actually i feel that if 1 feels they have has to carry a gun in this town or most towns in Wyoming they need to buy a M1 abram's tank to drive to the coffee shop if they are that scared of shadows. I am 59 yrs old and have lived in Wyoming all but the years i served in the military, have hunted ,fished, traveled all over the state and have never felt the need to carry a gun for protection. I do have a concieled carry permit but very seldom carry i see no need i guess i dont feel that thretened.....John Wise"
Why is it "gun" people do not understand and are our own worse enemies.
It is NOT about being scared of shadows or feeling threatened let alone buying a tank.
While I am sure Pine Bluffs are "gun friendly" chances are it is more of a shotgun and hunting rifle kind of FUDD friendly and not a "tactical" pistol or AR15 kind of friendly and the post above shows how it is not a self defense friendly range with all the mocking words and phrases.
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AB
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 05:21 am |
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John Wise stated "NO one has ever been harassed about carrying guns."
it's not harassed one should worry about it's being arrested, charged, and fined.
While I respect Mr. Wise's point of view I cannot ignore the fact is the towns Authorities including the town Attorney Alex Davidson have repeatedly stated that you will be arrested and fined $750 for open carrying in Pine Bluffs City limits.
I would strongly agree with Mr. Wise about reading anything on the Internet
and suggest you check for yourself.
So lets set the record straight, call the powers that be in Pine Bluffs and ask them if you can open carry in city limits. Remember to be polite
If anyone finds that they have retracted the former statements and in fact you can open carry in Pine Bluffs please post who you spoke with, time and date. (ie; Officer Smith, Stated that xyz at 10.32 am on dd/mm/yyyy. make notes and be specific.
Pine Bluffs Police (307) 245-3777
City Attorney Alex Davidson (307) 635-4111
Wyoming Gun Owners Association
http://wyominggunowners.org/
Article 1 Section 24 of the Wyoming Constitution. The right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied.
Last edited on Tue Feb 24th, 2009 04:08 pm by AB
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BB62
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 03:56 pm |
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BB62 wrote: Mike wrote: BB62 wrote: Cite? Possess=carry, where?
Your equation is in error - carry is not the same as possess but included within the term possess... A person carrying a holstered handgun clearly also possesses it.
I think most people think of possession in static terms, and "carry" in a distinctively different way. You have yet to cite to authority anything to dispute that - so you can represent me free of charge in my "possess" vs "carry" case.
Moving on, it seems like AB has come up a more threatening matter, W.S. 15-1-103(a)(xviii), Wyoming's version of West Allis' wet dream - "disturbing the peace" on steriods.
Mike? Mike?
Since the AG's office has taken a position that the state preemption law does not apply ("possess" including "carry" or not notwithstanding), and since AB has identified another threat to the OCer, what is it you suggest?
In no way can WY still be considered a "Gold Star" state because of these two things.
Last edited on Tue Feb 24th, 2009 03:57 pm by BB62
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