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dixieborn
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Posted: Mon Jun 15th, 2009 10:43 pm |
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Smtty, I think you've got a fair point that there is regularly a bias against LE among the forum or OC'ers. And yes, lots of the time it comes from bad experiences, but that shouldn't taint our opinion of all law enforcement officers.
I do disagree with you, though, about the officers being able to do whatever they want on their own time. Apparently you have never served in the military, or on a police department, or other such post. Because it is a very clear expectation that a member of those organizations is a direct representative of that very organization. Especially while in uniform! I agree that they should not be arrested, prosecuted or anything of that sort. But I do believe their supervisors have every right to take corrective action for this. Because it was hugely unprofessional to be doing this in their police uniforms, with their SWAT vehicle, etc.
You are correct, on their own time, they can go hang out at hooters, play with the girls, or in your words, have an orgy if they like! But most certainly not in uniform. Because they are held to a higher standard. That's not just me, a gun-toting, LE bashing forum writer saying that, that is what their superiors will say.
Just my two cents, cause for a legal stink? No. Unprofessional and inappropriate? Yes.
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smttysmth02gt
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| Location: | Eight Mile, USA |
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Posted: Tue Jun 16th, 2009 10:11 pm |
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dixieborn wrote: Smtty, I think you've got a fair point that there is regularly a bias against LE among the forum or OC'ers. And yes, lots of the time it comes from bad experiences, but that shouldn't taint our opinion of all law enforcement officers.
I do disagree with you, though, about the officers being able to do whatever they want on their own time. Apparently you have never served in the military, or on a police department, or other such post. Because it is a very clear expectation that a member of those organizations is a direct representative of that very organization. Especially while in uniform! I agree that they should not be arrested, prosecuted or anything of that sort. But I do believe their supervisors have every right to take corrective action for this. Because it was hugely unprofessional to be doing this in their police uniforms, with their SWAT vehicle, etc.
You are correct, on their own time, they can go hang out at hooters, play with the girls, or in your words, have an orgy if they like! But most certainly not in uniform. Because they are held to a higher standard. That's not just me, a gun-toting, LE bashing forum writer saying that, that is what their superiors will say.
Just my two cents, cause for a legal stink? No. Unprofessional and inappropriate? Yes.
Then perhaps we both agree and disagree...and can possibly agree to disagree in some way. :-)
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bigz
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 04:11 am |
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smttysmth02gt wrote: jerg_064 wrote: I can see what your getting at with it being a photo shoot n' all. But with the large number of people in a crowded area, outside a restaraunt where people go to drink and look at pretty women..... I think the firing pins should've at least been removed.
I don't. Remove the ammo and the gun's a paperweight. Or in this case, a nice edition to eye candy.
alot of people have been killed with a "unloaded gun" treat all guns as if they are loaded!
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ccwinstructor
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 02:21 pm |
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Thank you for participating on this forum. Police officers are not always badmouthed. I posted a thread where I had interaction with the Sawyer County Sheriff's Department in Wisconsin, and I spoke positively of them. It is in the Wisconsin forum, open carry in northern Wisconsin.
Guns are not magic talismans, and are there for us to enjoy and use. I do not see anything wrong with a photo shoot with guns involved. I think police are held to somewhat higher standards than the rest of us, but they deserve a private life as well. The idea that guns should not be in pictures is a meme of the control freaks. Guns are a normal part of society. If anything, they should be put on a pedistal and celebrated.
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smttysmth02gt
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 03:26 pm |
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bigz wrote: smttysmth02gt wrote: jerg_064 wrote: I can see what your getting at with it being a photo shoot n' all. But with the large number of people in a crowded area, outside a restaraunt where people go to drink and look at pretty women..... I think the firing pins should've at least been removed.
I don't. Remove the ammo and the gun's a paperweight. Or in this case, a nice edition to eye candy.
alot of people have been killed with a "unloaded gun" treat all guns as if they are loaded!
Your statement makes entirely no sense.
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HungSquirrel
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 05:57 pm |
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| He's saying careless people have killed when they thought the firearms they were handling incorrectly were unloaded. As such, he re-stated Rule 1. Striking silly poses with rifles pointed laterally in an urban environment means violating Rules 1 and 2 at the very least, as the firearms are not being treated as loaded, and the muzzles are likely pointed at persons and/or dwellings within the maximum range of the rifles.
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smttysmth02gt
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 05:58 pm |
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HungSquirrel wrote: He's saying careless people have killed when they thought the firearms they were handling incorrectly were unloaded. As such, he re-stated Rule 1. Striking silly poses with rifles pointed laterally in an urban environment means violating Rules 1 and 2 at the very least, as the firearms are not being treated as loaded, and the muzzles are likely pointed at persons and/or dwellings within the maximum range of the rifles.
Right. And if you seriously think that nobody checked the chamber before handing the gun to the hotties to strike some poses, then I believe you would be wrong.
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HungSquirrel
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 06:00 pm |
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| Rule 1 does not say "check the chamber." It says "all guns are always loaded." I reiterate, the cops violated Rules 1 and 2 at the least. They may have violated Rule 3; it has been a long time since I saw the pics, so I don't remember.
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smttysmth02gt
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 06:38 pm |
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HungSquirrel wrote: Rule 1 does not say "check the chamber." It says "all guns are always loaded." I reiterate, the cops violated Rules 1 and 2 at the least. They may have violated Rule 3; it has been a long time since I saw the pics, so I don't remember.
I'm not exactly sure how to respond to such foolish logic that defies reality on a possibility that has already been ruled out. I will end with saying, I really don't think it's a big deal.
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HungSquirrel
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 06:50 pm |
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"Foolish logic"?
In some photos, were the rifles not pointed laterally?
Does Rule 1 say "all guns are loaded, unless you're a good boy and check the chamber"?
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ccwinstructor
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 07:00 pm |
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HungSquirrel wrote: Rule 1 does not say "check the chamber." It says "all guns are always loaded." I reiterate, the cops violated Rules 1 and 2 at the least. They may have violated Rule 3; it has been a long time since I saw the pics, so I don't remember.
So, how do you clean your firearms?
My version of "rule one" is treat firearms as if they are loaded, until you prove otherwise.
There are things that you need to do with firearms that you would never do with a loaded firearm, such as cleaning it, repairing it, and some traininging exercises.
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smttysmth02gt
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 07:55 pm |
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HungSquirrel wrote: "Foolish logic"?
In some photos, were the rifles not pointed laterally?
Does Rule 1 say "all guns are loaded, unless you're a good boy and check the chamber"?
I really don't care what your rules state. My rules do not disregard common sense.
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HungSquirrel
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 09:28 pm |
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ccwinstructor wrote:
HungSquirrel wrote: Rule 1 does not say "check the chamber." It says "all guns are always loaded." I reiterate, the cops violated Rules 1 and 2 at the least. They may have violated Rule 3; it has been a long time since I saw the pics, so I don't remember.
So, how do you clean your firearms?
My version of "rule one" is treat firearms as if they are loaded, until you prove otherwise.
My rule is a firearm is still a firearm until the barrel, bolt, and frame have been separated. While stripping the firearm, it is pointed at no one. I thought that was everyone's rule.
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smttysmth02gt
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 09:34 pm |
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HungSquirrel wrote: ccwinstructor wrote:
HungSquirrel wrote: Rule 1 does not say "check the chamber." It says "all guns are always loaded." I reiterate, the cops violated Rules 1 and 2 at the least. They may have violated Rule 3; it has been a long time since I saw the pics, so I don't remember.
So, how do you clean your firearms?
My version of "rule one" is treat firearms as if they are loaded, until you prove otherwise.
My rule is a firearm is still a firearm until the barrel, bolt, and frame have been separated. While stripping the firearm, it is pointed at no one. I thought that was everyone's rule.
It's a rule to be used within reason. In other words, if you have seen someone check the chamber or done it yourself, act as if it is loaded until you check it yourself. If doubt has been removed and you still act like it's loaded, while your principle may be right upon good practice, it still is sort of stupid logic to act as if it can be fired when you already know it cannot.
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Daddyo
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 10:26 pm |
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Treat every gun like it is loaded ALWAYS, because of this:
http://www.thegunzone.com/nd.html
and this:
http://www.negligentdischarge.com/
Even when dry firing or bore sighting, I keep it pointed away from anything I don't want a hole in and make sure there is something on the other side that will stop a bullet.
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bigz
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 10:45 pm |
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smttysmth02gt wrote: HungSquirrel wrote: ccwinstructor wrote:
HungSquirrel wrote: Rule 1 does not say "check the chamber." It says "all guns are always loaded." I reiterate, the cops violated Rules 1 and 2 at the least. They may have violated Rule 3; it has been a long time since I saw the pics, so I don't remember.
So, how do you clean your firearms?
My version of "rule one" is treat firearms as if they are loaded, until you prove otherwise.
My rule is a firearm is still a firearm until the barrel, bolt, and frame have been separated. While stripping the firearm, it is pointed at no one. I thought that was everyone's rule.
It's a rule to be used within reason. In other words, if you have seen someone check the chamber or done it yourself, act as if it is loaded until you check it yourself. If doubt has been removed and you still act like it's loaded, while your principle may be right upon good practice, it still is sort of stupid logic to act as if it can be fired when you already know it cannot.
personally i think you just like to argue with people. I have read alot of your post and they are all confrontational. You disagree with everything, newsflash jackass your not changing anyones mind or converting them to your views.
The rules of using a firearm are for your safety and the safety of others. My Grandpa taught me the rules at a very young age and i respect them. If you point a firearm at a person loaded or unloaded you are a REGISTERED idiot. It shows you do not respect what a firearm can do and how dangerous it can be.
Being unsafe especially in public does nothing to help our cause, If people see us acting in a unsafe manner with our guns they think we are putting them in danger which you are. I carry a gun to protect me, my family, and if need be the lady in the checkout line behind me. not to put them in danger my pointing my gun in all directions. I take NO risk with my gun loaded or not.
I dont have a problem with guns in pictures. Their are pictures of members here with their guns holstered. But trying to show out with a bunch of hooters girls to look cool and using unsafe practice with a firearm to do so is just stupid. no "logic" that you can think up in your mind can make this right.
Cops or no cops it does not matter to me who they were it was stupid and unsafe. I know alot of leo that i respect and they do their job right. It seems to me you are either a leo or you will defend them no matter what they do. Disagreeing with members here is fine i mean its a DISCUSSION FORUM. But cominf here to disagree with evertything and constantly fussing and arguing is crazy. If you are here just to be in a confrontation you need to take your crap elsewhere!!!
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smttysmth02gt
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 10:51 pm |
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bigz wrote: smttysmth02gt wrote: HungSquirrel wrote: ccwinstructor wrote:
HungSquirrel wrote: Rule 1 does not say "check the chamber." It says "all guns are always loaded." I reiterate, the cops violated Rules 1 and 2 at the least. They may have violated Rule 3; it has been a long time since I saw the pics, so I don't remember.
So, how do you clean your firearms?
My version of "rule one" is treat firearms as if they are loaded, until you prove otherwise.
My rule is a firearm is still a firearm until the barrel, bolt, and frame have been separated. While stripping the firearm, it is pointed at no one. I thought that was everyone's rule.
It's a rule to be used within reason. In other words, if you have seen someone check the chamber or done it yourself, act as if it is loaded until you check it yourself. If doubt has been removed and you still act like it's loaded, while your principle may be right upon good practice, it still is sort of stupid logic to act as if it can be fired when you already know it cannot.
personally i think you just like to argue with people. I have read alot of your post and they are all confrontational. You disagree with everything, newsflash jackass your not changing anyones mind or converting them to your views.
The rules of using a firearm are for your safety and the safety of others. My Grandpa taught me the rules at a very young age and i respect them. If you point a firearm at a person loaded or unloaded you are a REGISTERED idiot. It shows you do not respect what a firearm can do and how dangerous it can be.
Being unsafe especially in public does nothing to help our cause, If people see us acting in a unsafe manner with our guns they think we are putting them in danger which you are. I carry a gun to protect me, my family, and if need be the lady in the checkout line behind me. not to put them in danger my pointing my gun in all directions. I take NO risk with my gun loaded or not.
I dont have a problem with guns in pictures. Their are pictures of members here with their guns holstered. But trying to show out with a bunch of hooters girls to look cool and using unsafe practice with a firearm to do so is just stupid. no "logic" that you can think up in your mind can make this right.
Cops or no cops it does not matter to me who they were it was stupid and unsafe. I know alot of leo that i respect and they do their job right. It seems to me you are either a leo or you will defend them no matter what they do. Disagreeing with members here is fine i mean its a DISCUSSION FORUM. But cominf here to disagree with evertything and constantly fussing and arguing is crazy. If you are here just to be in a confrontation you need to take your crap elsewhere!!!
Sorry you feel that way. I do not wish to be confrontational, nor do I like to argue. I just wish to be objective and implement common sense on what appears to be many stubborn, and biased views. Take it easy.
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bigz
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Posted: Wed Jun 17th, 2009 11:03 pm |
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| everyone has a right to disagree but its like a bunch of 5 year olds. If you disagree thats cool just state your opinion and why you feel like that bu stooping to levels of insulting other members intelligence because they don't agree with your views is just crazy. And i am not just pointing you out there are others that do the same.
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smttysmth02gt
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 03:07 am |
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bigz wrote: everyone has a right to disagree but its like a bunch of 5 year olds. If you disagree thats cool just state your opinion and why you feel like that bu stooping to levels of insulting other members intelligence because they don't agree with your views is just crazy. And i am not just pointing you out there are others that do the same.
Sorry, I did not know that I insulted anyone.
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MichaelWDean
Regular Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 18th, 2009 04:44 am |
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My definition of open carry is "gun stays in holster unless there is a lethal threat, or you're somewhere safe to shoot and you plan to shoot it at a safe target or while safely hunting."
Personally, I dislike photos of people with guns who don't use and respect guns. Guns aren't fashion accessories. A chick brandishing a gun isn't erotic to me. It cheapens sane gun ownership. My wife packs, and keeps her gun in her holster too. The sexy thing about it is that it's in her holster, taken out only if needed, but it's there, keeping her free and safe. Freedom and safety are sexy to me. Brandishing guns is not.
However, I find pix like this nice:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/27204.html
She's obviously a gun owner, not some bimbo holding a gun for the first time. That's a nice family snapshot, not sleazy "gun porn" like those cops were doing. (Not that I have anything against porn, but I don't like "gun porn.")
(I also will never have a photo of me taken with a gun pointed toward the camera. Sends an intimidating message, and also could be used against you in court to influence a jury.)
However, that's just me. I think it's a taste issue, not a legal issue. I am against all gun laws. (Except that shooting them at someone's private property in a harmful way should remain illegal, and that shooting people in anything except self-defense should remain illegal, but those aren't really gun laws. They're property laws and murder/assault laws.)
I hate all gun laws. The smallest cobwebs grow into the thickest shackles.
MWD
Last edited on Thu Jun 18th, 2009 05:05 am by MichaelWDean
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