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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 04:52 am |
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Wow, what a dilemma....a citizen with a gun pointed at her head!
This case might provide some insight into the general LEO-anti mentality about citizens with guns. Sure, an armed LAC is gonna be 99% + no threat. But then you get a goof with a gun like this woman....and your day is spoiled!
In this instance, it looks like there was simply no realistic choice. He had to shoot the woman, as absurd as it may seem to shoot a suicidal person.
Glad the officer is physically OK. (Though he may not be, mentally.)
I wonder what an armed (OC or CC) LAC should do if they stumble across a weird situation like this? Doing an exit, stage left! seems like the only realistic thing to do...
Deputy shoots distraught woman in self-defense
Oct 31, 2009 1:59 PM EDT
By Sylvia Hall
JACKSON COUNTY, MS (WLOX) - A woman was in the hospital Friday night after a Jackson County sheriff's deputy allegedly shot her in the chest. Authorities say it all happened outside Doggie Town pet grooming business in the Hurley community, just before 11 Friday morning.
"From what we understand, this was a domestic situation involving 3 females who were allegedly involved with one another," said Jackson County Sheriff Mike Byrd.
It was apparently one of those women who walked out of the pet grooming business in distress Friday morning, pulled out a gun in the parking lot, and pointed it to her head. That's when someone called 911, and a deputy went to the scene.
"From what he found at the scene, an unknown suspect had a pistol to her head, and she was screaming she was going to shoot," Byrd explained. "So the officer told her to put the gun down. She did not put the gun down. She went and turned the gun toward the officer. And that's when she got shot."
Byrd said the deputy's bullet struck the woman in the chest. She was taken to Providence Hospital in Mobile, and later transported to USA Medical Center. Byrd has not released the name of the woman or the deputy, but said it appears the deputy did the right thing.
"Of course the last thing any officer wants to do is to have to use deadly force," Byrd explained. "When officers are trained, its a last resort. And then when you've got a gun pointed at you and someone's indicating they're fixing to shoot you, you have to defend yourself."
The Sheriff's Department is investigating, and they aren't the only ones. The Mississippi Bureau of Investigations and the District Attorney's office are also looking into the incident.
"Anytime that we have an officer involved shooting, I will always call in an outside agency just to make sure that there is not any foul play of any type and to make sure the officer was justified in what he did," Byrd explained.
Byrd said he expects to release more details as the investigation continues.
WLOX spoke with Doggie Town's owners Friday afternoon. They said the woman knows one of the groomers who works there, but she is not affiliated with the business.
http://www.wlox.com/Global/story.asp?S=11418435
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Bookman
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:24 am |
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| This really peculiar for me because that's where I went to High School. Haven't been back there, though, since 1980. Back then this was a little town with a single stoplight. And IT blinked.
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Sionadi
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:28 am |
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Im glad that the officer shot her, she could just have easily turned her possible suicide into a homicide, and seeing as she pointed the gun at the officer, yes im glad he shot.
Last edited on Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:30 am by Sionadi
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deepdiver
Activist Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 4755 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:56 pm |
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It's called "suicide by cop". Not terribly common, but common enough that it has a name.
In this case, had she shot herself in the head she would almost certainly be dead. The cop shot her in the chest, she is in the hospital and very well may recover as the news article didn't say she was in critical condition. BECAUSE the cop shot her in the chest instead of her shooting herself in the head she may recover and get the psychological help she needs. Yes, it is ironic on many levels.
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bohdi
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 04:26 pm |
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HankT wrote: Wow, what a dilemma....a citizen with a gun pointed at her head!
I wonder what an armed (OC or CC) LAC should do if they stumble across a weird situation like this? Doing an exit, stage left! seems like the only realistic thing to do...
Really Hank, the ONLY realistic thing to do? For sure? From you? Seems like a cop out on your part.
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Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:07 pm |
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| If I were to encounter someone with a gun to their own head... OK... but intervention would only come if/when that pistol was pointed elsewhere 'til the LEO's showed up. Am I gonna prevent or try to prevent their suicide.? No. Would i keep 'em under observation? Yeah... in case they changed their minds 'n started to shoot the place up or make the attempt. OR... go find a bar 'n wait for the 'bang'.
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protector84
Regular Member
| Joined: | Sat Oct 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 578 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 01:50 am |
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Had she chosen not to point her gun at the cop, a response could have been to tase the woman causing her to drop the gun. I would have tried to do that if feasible. Obviously this is a tricky and tragic situation.
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 02:11 am |
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bohdi wrote: HankT wrote: Wow, what a dilemma....a citizen with a gun pointed at her head!
I wonder what an armed (OC or CC) LAC should do if they stumble across a weird situation like this? Doing an exit, stage left! seems like the only realistic thing to do...
Really Hank, the ONLY realistic thing to do? For sure? From you? Seems like a cop out on your part.
Hardly, bohdi-ster.
Think about it. Think of all that could go wrong. Think of the liability. Think of your lack of training in handling a suicide. Think of the lack of reasonable fear of severe injury/death....
It's the perfect situation for an armed LAC to simply edge, if not run away.
Of course, some folks (you, bohdi?) want to use their tool sooooooo bad...
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail."
A. Maslow
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Sionadi
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 03:00 am |
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but if i walked away (which i would not) and she did kill herself i would think i could have kept that from happening, or if she went on a homicide
Last edited on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 03:01 am by Sionadi
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 03:03 am |
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Sionadi wrote: but if i walked away (which i would not) and she did kill herself i would think i could have kept that from happening, or if she went on a homicide
What are your qualifications for handling a situation like that?
That you have a gun?
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Sionadi
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 03:15 am |
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that you can talk long enough till 3 things, the police arrive, she puts the gun down and you can detain her, she points the gun at someone else.
Last edited on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 03:16 am by Sionadi
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 03:46 am |
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Sionadi wrote: that you can talk long enough till 3 things, the police arrive, she puts the gun down and you can detain her, she points the gun at someone else.
If she has the gun to her head.....what do you do?
Do you pull your gun?
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Sionadi
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 04:00 am |
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i keep ready to pull it, keeping something between me and her
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N6ATF
Banned
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 06:15 am |
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HankT wrote: Sionadi wrote: that you can talk long enough till 3 things, the police arrive, she puts the gun down and you can detain her, she points the gun at someone else.
If she has the gun to her head.....what do you do?
Do you pull your gun?
Wonder if anyone's ever tried offering to buy a suicidal person's gun as they're holding it on themselves. Pull the wallet, not the gun?
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 09:43 am |
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N6ATF wrote: HankT wrote: Sionadi wrote: that you can talk long enough till 3 things, the police arrive, she puts the gun down and you can detain her, she points the gun at someone else.
If she has the gun to her head.....what do you do?
Do you pull your gun?
Wonder if anyone's ever tried offering to buy a suicidal person's gun as they're holding it on themselves. Pull the wallet, not the gun?
That's a very interesting/very weird thought.
Excellent post, N6.
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JT
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | Mississippi USA |
| Posts: | 166 |
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Offline
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 10:36 am |
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Per other reports the woman tried pulled the trigger with the gun pointed at her head and it didn't fire. Then she pointed it at the deputy.
Mississippi Press
At that point the deputy had little choice. It's was a lousy situation for the deputy but since she had already pulled the trigger once it was reasonable to assume she would pull the trigger again.
Last edited on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 10:37 am by JT
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ODA 226
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 11:47 am |
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| In Virginia it is legal for a cop to shoot you dead in order to prevent you from killing yourself....Strange but true!
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HankT
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:07 pm |
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ODA 226 wrote: In Virginia it is legal for a cop to shoot you dead in order to prevent you from killing yourself....Strange but true!
But it's not legal for an armed citizen to do it!
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bohdi
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:28 pm |
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HankT wrote: bohdi wrote: HankT wrote: Wow, what a dilemma....a citizen with a gun pointed at her head!
I wonder what an armed (OC or CC) LAC should do if they stumble across a weird situation like this? Doing an exit, stage left! seems like the only realistic thing to do...
Really Hank, the ONLY realistic thing to do? For sure? From you? Seems like a cop out on your part.
Hardly, bohdi-ster.
Think about it. Think of all that could go wrong. Think of the liability. Think of your lack of training in handling a suicide. Think of the lack of reasonable fear of severe injury/death....
It's the perfect situation for an armed LAC to simply edge, if not run away.
Of course, some folks (you, bohdi?) want to use their tool sooooooo bad...
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail."
A. Maslow
Your Hankness,
Go read your own words. Then re-read mine. Never did I say a LAC should use a weapon to deescalate the situation. I am merely pointing out how socially irresponsible you are with your advice.
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deepdiver
Activist Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 4755 |
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Offline
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Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 01:54 pm |
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HankT wrote: Sionadi wrote: but if i walked away (which i would not) and she did kill herself i would think i could have kept that from happening, or if she went on a homicide
What are your qualifications for handling a situation like that?
That you have a gun?
 I see your point, Hank. If I ever come across someone threatening to commit suicide in some manner I'll just tell them their going to have to deal with it themselves because I don't have a gov't certified qualification for handling the situation.
Certainly just because someone carries a gun it does not qualify him/her to insinuate himself into any situation involving the misuse of a lethal weapon. On the other hand, there are situations where someone who carries may be able to help another and is more willing/able to intervene because of having a firearm.
The same skill set that makes good police negotiators or psych intervention therapists are found in many business professions. There are many people in sales and management who learn very similar techniques to those taught in psych to talk down someone in crisis or at a high level of excitement. If interacting with someone such as in this situation, being armed yourself may very well increase your survivability or the survivability of others IF the suicidal person decides to be homicidal. A person holding a gun to their head threatening suicide is pretty much by definition unstable.
I'm not suggesting that anyone who carries a firearm should just jump into such situations anymore than someone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express should. However, IF you do carry and can defend yourself and others if the suicidal person starts targeting you or others and IF the authorities haven't arrived and IF there is indeed such a crisis and IF others are in potential harm's way and IF you have a proven skill set for dealing with crisis intervention, choosing to be involved until the authorities do arrive is not automatically a bad or reckless idea.
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