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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 05:12 pm |
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Please CLICK on the article link and then CLICK the "Subscribe button" to be immediately alerted to all new columns by the DC Gun Rights Examiner!
http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d24-How-DC-residents-can-buy-guns-without-registration
SNIP
Last February I explained how, counter intuitively, the DC City Council's 2008 action to repeal the DC Police Chief's power to issue handgun carry permits made it possible for DC residents to apply by mail for handgun carry permits from Pennsylvania Sherrifs. Such applications can be made by filling out a simple form, no fingerprints, social security numbers, or training required. And these permits are accepted by many states too.
. . .
So how can DC residents legally acquire guns without jumping through all the hoops erected by the DC City Council? It turns out it's pretty simple - you must either maintain a second residence in another state, temporarily become a "resident" of another state, or inherent the gun through intestate transfer.
Last edited on Thu Sep 24th, 2009 05:13 pm by Mike
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KBCraig
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Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 07:13 pm |
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Or "inherent the gun through intestate transfer"?
If it's intestate, it's not bequeathed. Or did you mean "inherit the gun through interstate transfer"?
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 10:15 pm |
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KBCraig wrote: Or "inherent the gun through intestate transfer"?
If it's intestate, it's not bequeathed. Or did you mean "inherit the gun through interstate transfer"?
OK, I fixed a few typos and updated the parts you discuss above to "inherit the firearm(s) by bequest or intestate succession."
I think that is correct terminology, no??
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KBCraig
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 12:13 am |
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Yes, that is the correct terminology, but it doesn't make the heir legal in DC.
18 USC 922 (A) makes unlicensed interstate transfers illegal, except the law"shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State".
Possession of an unregistered firearm in DC is illegal no matter how it is acquired. If you inherit it, you still have to register it.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 01:01 am |
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KBCraig wrote: Possession of an unregistered firearm in DC is illegal no matter how it is acquired. If you inherit it, you still have to register it.
But only if the gun is moved into DC.
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KBCraig
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 02:54 am |
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Mike wrote: KBCraig wrote: Possession of an unregistered firearm in DC is illegal no matter how it is acquired. If you inherit it, you still have to register it.
But only if the gun is moved into DC.
I'm sorry, I misunderstood the point. It's a foreign concept for me: owning a gun without being able to possess it in my home. 
Now that I'm back on track: Yes, that's a legal way for a DC resident to own a gun, so long as it's never in DC. To bring it into DC, they would have to register it.
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TFred
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 04:21 am |
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KBCraig wrote: Now that I'm back on track: Yes, that's a legal way for a DC resident to own a gun, so long as it's never in DC. To bring it into DC, they would have to register it.
I think that's the point of the article, how can a DC resident legally own a handgun. No gun stores in DC, only one FFL, which would require participation in the onerous horse and pony show designed to prevent gun ownership.
This article shows how a DC resident may legally own a gun, even if not legally possessing one in his/her DC residence.
Possession at home aside, federal transfer rules make it difficult for them to even own a gun. It's easy for us in the free states to forget how heavy handed the DC government is on law abiding citizens.
One step at at time.
TFred
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KBCraig
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 08:34 am |
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Oh, and I do have to add that despite the ATF's FAQ page to the contrary, it's almost impossible to purchase a gun from an FFL in a state where you are a short-term resident, but have not established a domicile.
For most people, their "state government-issued ID" is a driver's license, and that is the document most FFLs will demand to see in order to complete the 4473 transaction. It's either that, or a state-issued identification card, which varies from state to state when it comes to difficulty and documentation required.
I once overlooked renewing my driver's license, and only found out a month after it expired, because I went to pick up a shotgun I had won at a Friends of the NRA banquet. The dealer was adamant: an expired DL is no longer valid ID according to the ATF. (Yes, Type 01 FFLs are frequently full of malarkey, but I have heard this same line repeated throughout the country.)
Dealers are overly cautious, because a small mistake can cost them their livelihood, but their caution is based on experience with the ATF.
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Toymaker
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 10:54 am |
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| The better way would be for Congress to amend 18 USC 922 to allow DC residents an exception to buy from Maryland or Virginia. The DC Council has intentionally made it very tough for FFLs to set up shop in DC.
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 10:59 am |
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KBCraig wrote: Oh, and I do have to add that despite the ATF's FAQ page to the contrary, it's almost impossible to purchase a gun from an FFL in a state where you are a short-term resident, but have not established a domicile.
For most people, their "state government-issued ID" is a driver's license, and that is the document most FFLs will demand to see in order to complete the 4473 transaction.
Except that is not what the federal reg. says - it says government issued photo ID and collection of docs showing same, sig, DAB, and address; so unless he state has narrower definitions, then a US Passport, green card, or DOD ID is perfectly acceptable and arguably a dealer could be sued to force him to accept the mandated ID as he is a government agent when carrying out background checks; I theatened to sue a PA gundealer who was demanding SSN disclosure to do background checks and a couple o f weeks later his lawyer drafted a letter to me stating he was backing down 
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 11:00 am |
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KBCraig wrote: Oh, and I do have to add that despite the ATF's FAQ page to the contrary, it's almost impossible to purchase a gun from an FFL in a state where you are a short-term resident, but have not established a domicile.
That's why private sales are so important.
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mark edward marchiafava
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 11:03 am |
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KBCraig wrote: Or "inherent the gun through intestate transfer"?
If it's intestate, it's not bequeathed. Or did you mean "inherit the gun through interstate transfer"?
Intestate - dying without a will.
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Thundar
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 04:01 pm |
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| Or you could but a black powder cap and ball replica. Lots of fun. No FFL required. Legal to own in DC without registration.
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KBCraig
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Posted: Fri Sep 25th, 2009 05:00 pm |
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Mike wrote: KBCraig wrote: Oh, and I do have to add that despite the ATF's FAQ page to the contrary, it's almost impossible to purchase a gun from an FFL in a state where you are a short-term resident, but have not established a domicile.
For most people, their "state government-issued ID" is a driver's license, and that is the document most FFLs will demand to see in order to complete the 4473 transaction.
Except that is not what the federal reg. says -
It is, however, what the ATF enforcement branch agents in the field frequently tell dealers.
For the FFL with his business on the line, the actual law and actual regulations are secondary to what he is told by the guy with the authority to chain his doors shut.
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Pagan
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 19th, 2010 06:04 pm |
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| So at the Dc march in April I could carry a replica 44 cal revolver as long as there is no powder or cap in it?
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Dreamer
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Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 01:52 am |
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TFred wrote:I think that's the point of the article, how can a DC resident legally own a handgun. No gun stores in DC, only one FFL, which would require participation in the onerous horse and pony show designed to prevent gun ownership.
And you know the REALLY sick thing about that? There are eleven FFL holders of record (that I could find) in Washington DC:- Arena Stage
- The Shakespeare Theater Company
- Josh Sugarmann
- The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (self explanatory)
- K S Supply (an LEA supply company)
- Cs Exchange Ltd. (an LEA supply company, but is doing a few individual transfers for VERY inflated prices, like Sugarmann)
- Crackerjack, Inc. (a tax exempt/non-profit social club)
- Performance Hobbies (a model rocketry hobby store.)
- Capitol Works (a fireworks company.)
- Ronco Consulting (a mine clearance comapny)
- AKE, LLC (a security consulting company.)
Only ONE of these FFL holders is openly willing to (or really, even legally able to) facilitate individual transfers to a DC resident--Josh Sugarmann.
Yes, THAT Josh Sugarmann...
The Executive Director of the Violence Policy Center, Josh Sugarmann...
http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/02/the_quintessenc.php
You can contact him here, to see if he wants to do your transfer if you are a DC resident:
Josh Sugarmann
Violence Policy Center
1730 Rhode Island Avenue, NW
Suite 1014
Washington, DC 20036
Phone: 202 822 8200
email: http://www.vpc.org
He WILL do it. But be forewarned--it's gonna cost you $200.
According to the DC Metro Police's website, they have processed a few more than 500 registrations so far. Assuming every one of those was for a new purchase, Mr. Sugarmann could have made well over $100,000 JUST on Transfers--a process that costs him NOTHING.
Filing the paperwork is free. Running a NICS check is free for any FFL holder. At the very least, he pays for the postage stamps to mail them to BATFE, but even if he FedEx'ed them overnight, he's still be making about $170 per transfer.
Assuming the paperwork takes about 10 minutes for him to process, that means his billable rate is $1020/hr.
Not bad wages for a gun-grabbing, racist, neo-fascist...
I wonder where that money is going? Into his pockets? Or worse--to the VPC's slush fund?...
It's a sick, twisted situation. Sort of like potheads buying Doritos when they get the munchies, even though Frito-Lay is one of the biggest contributors to Partnership for a Drug-Free America.
When will the maddness end?...
Last edited on Sat Feb 20th, 2010 02:31 am by Dreamer
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Dreamer
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Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 01:55 am |
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Mike wrote: Except that is not what the federal reg. says - it says government issued photo ID and collection of docs showing same, sig, DAB, and address; so unless he state has narrower definitions, then a US Passport, green card, or DOD ID is perfectly acceptable...
Not entirely true...
US Passports do NOT have your permanent address printed on them. There is a place for you to write it in by hand, but that is not considered to be a valid proof of residence--ONLY of US citizenship...
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 03:03 am |
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Dreamer wrote: Mike wrote: Except that is not what the federal reg. says - it says government issued photo ID and collection of docs showing same, sig, DAB, and address; so unless he state has narrower definitions, then a US Passport, green card, or DOD ID is perfectly acceptable...
Not entirely true...
US Passports do NOT have your permanent address printed on them. There is a place for you to write it in by hand, but that is not considered to be a valid proof of residence--ONLY of US citizenship...
You are answering a question not identified - for purposes of federal law, identity data and residential address can be demonstraterd thru a variety of documents - e.g., passport plus cox cable bill.
For purposes of virginia's heightened ID requirements, secondary proof of address can be demonstrated by a US passport with the address written in in pencil.
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Dreamer
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Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 04:24 am |
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OK. I stand corrected for VA.
Here in NC, for state purposes, a passport doesn't count as a valid ID. My wife tried to use her passport as one of the required IDs when we moved down here to get her NC drivers license, and the folks at DMV turned her away.
But it's good to know that in VA, your state recognizes a federally-issued ID. (They WILL take a utility bill at the NC DMV though--go figure...)
Sometimes, NC rules don't make ANY sense whatsoever.
Last edited on Sat Feb 20th, 2010 04:24 am by Dreamer
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