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murphyslaw
State Researcher
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Posted: Tue May 12th, 2009 02:16 am |
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Flintlock wrote: spyderdude wrote: You can try calling the Northway Mall. They have a list of rules right at one of the front entrances and I think its the 6th rule down on the list that prohibits the possession of weapons on the property. I haven't seen any posted signs at Dimond Mall, but at least they have armed security.
I might do that, but I would like to get the exact wording before I send anything. You are right, at Diamond, they have armed security. Do you know anything about the security company at 5th Avenue?
They are unarmed but carry cuffs. I found that very interesting because they have no arrest powers and cannot detain citizens against their will.
Ever hear of a Citizens arrest. Any citizen can make an arrest under specified circumstances.
5th ave, uses guardian.
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spyderdude
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue May 12th, 2009 03:45 am |
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Security officers have the same powers of arrest as a private citizen. You cannot place someone under citizen's arrest unless you know beyond a reasonable doubt that the person you are accusing of a crime, has in fact committed a crime. I never understood why they have security officers carrying handcuffs but no taser, gun, or any type of tool to aid in compliance of a suspect. Maybe they carry pepper spray, I don't know.
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Flintlock
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | Alaska USA |
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Posted: Tue May 12th, 2009 09:45 pm |
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murphyslaw wrote: Flintlock wrote: spyderdude wrote: You can try calling the Northway Mall. They have a list of rules right at one of the front entrances and I think its the 6th rule down on the list that prohibits the possession of weapons on the property. I haven't seen any posted signs at Dimond Mall, but at least they have armed security.
I might do that, but I would like to get the exact wording before I send anything. You are right, at Diamond, they have armed security. Do you know anything about the security company at 5th Avenue?
They are unarmed but carry cuffs. I found that very interesting because they have no arrest powers and cannot detain citizens against their will.
Ever hear of a Citizens arrest. Any citizen can make an arrest under specified circumstances.
5th ave, uses guardian.
Actually, I am very aware of citizen's arrests, but that doesn't answer my question. It is legally questionable whether or not I could use my cuffs on a burglar to hold them for police in my own house. I have read accounts of issues related to this in some other states over the years.
That being said, It would certainly be questionable to me to witness a security company officer cuff and detain alledged criminals for the police as well. Do they even train on the usage of cuffing and the techniques involved? Do they train in civil law and have a code of conduct? What is the Use of Force policy? Are they sworn protectors of the public, therefore answering and employed by the public? My feeling without any exact knowledge of the companies themselves is that training is probably extremely limited and they don't answer to the public.
Is "citizens arrest" the justification or is there a specific statute that plays a role here? I am looking for the relavent statutes.
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spyderdude
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue May 12th, 2009 10:24 pm |
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I know with Guardian you cannot carry handcuffs unless your assigned post allows or requires it. I am sure training within the security field is minimal because the job of a security officer is to observe and report, not apprehend suspects. This is why so many guard companies are going unarmed probably due to liability issues. Many people get the wrong idea that security officers have the same powers as law enforcement and that is just not true. I've been trying to find the statutes myself regarding security officers, but haven't found them yet.
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murphyslaw
State Researcher
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Posted: Wed May 13th, 2009 01:40 am |
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At my company we are allowed to carry cuffs if,
1) The client(s) request that we have them
2) We have been trained in handcuffing
3) We have been threw the class, regarding the law and company/client policy
Most of our Armed Officers dont even carry cuffs. I how ever do, but I can not think of a situation that I would be trying to cuff someone by myself(and I"m prior LEO) as a Security Officer. I would prefer to keep a safe distance(~21ft) and wait for help/LEO's
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Flintlock
Regular Member
| Joined: | Fri May 26th, 2006 |
| Location: | Alaska USA |
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Posted: Thu May 14th, 2009 08:04 am |
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murphyslaw wrote: At my company we are allowed to carry cuffs if,
1) The client(s) request that we have them
2) We have been trained in handcuffing
3) We have been threw the class, regarding the law and company/client policy
Most of our Armed Officers dont even carry cuffs. I how ever do, but I can not think of a situation that I would be trying to cuff someone by myself(and I"m prior LEO) as a Security Officer. I would prefer to keep a safe distance(~21ft) and wait for help/LEO's
That is somewhat reassuring.. Thanks for the information.
Note: I have not received a response from them yet and frankly, I don't imagine that I ever will. That would be kinda sad as you would think they would be able to justify their ridiculous policies if they were worth having in the first place...
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spyderdude
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon May 18th, 2009 11:17 am |
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In the Alabama section there is a topic about Golden Corral. They apparently have a policy against carrying weapons. I don't know if our local GC is corporate or a private franchise. I've never had any negative responses while OCing there, but just thought I would bring this up.
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Baradium
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri May 22nd, 2009 10:21 pm |
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insane.kangaroo wrote: He was under the presumption from when I was speaking to him no firearm signs or business policies made it illegal. He should've asked you to leave but did not.
There are specific requirements on what the signage must be. The buisiness cannot just have a policy and expect that firearms are illegal if he does not meet the signage requirements. He can ask someone to leave, but he is legally required to post appropriate signage if he actually wants to forbid firearms. Something in his policy book behind the counter doesn't cut it. However, once you're asked to leave, that does mean that you must leave. I don't know if it's considered permanent for you as a person or not.
spyderdude wrote: You can try calling the Northway Mall. They have a list of rules right at one of the front entrances and I think its the 6th rule down on the list that prohibits the possession of weapons on the property. I haven't seen any posted signs at Dimond Mall, but at least they have armed security.
See above, it seems that a lot of places with corporate signage such as this sound like do NOT meet the legal requirement to forbid firearms. A bullet in a list in a 12 pt font doesn't meet it.
I don't have the law handy, but want to say it was something like 1" letters and a specific sign for the firearms. I believe it also doesn't allow them to differentiate concealed vs open carry.
Anyone feel like looking it up?
That said, I'd venture that if you oc'd in a place with a bullet list such as that, they'd likely be asking you to leave if they noticed you. At that point, it's a fairly moot point on whether the list is legal notice or not.
Last edited on Fri May 22nd, 2009 10:23 pm by Baradium
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FarNorth
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 07:22 pm |
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| Village Inn on Latouche behind the Fred Meyers at Northern Lights and Old Seward (Anchorage) has a "NO WEAPONS" sign on their door. Never confronted the manager about it, just stopped spending my money there. Not sure if all Village Inn's are the same. Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 07:23 pm by FarNorth
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FarNorth
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 07:37 pm |
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Also wanted to add that the Daily News has an official looking sign in their entrance stating something about no weapons and also lists two Alaska statutes. AS14.40.170 and AS11.71.900.
I went to the state web site to look them up but was having trouble finding anything about guns in the statutes they posted. I didn't spend much time on it and may have been looking at the wrong statutes. If anyone can provide more info it would be appreciated.
Thanks...
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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
| Joined: | Wed Aug 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Olympia, WA |
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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 12:12 am |
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The Daily News is owned by McClatchey. I am a contractor for two McClatchey papers. Guns are a no-no for contractors and employees, so I'm sure they extend that to visitors as well.
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spyderdude
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 12:36 am |
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sv_libertarian wrote: The Daily News is owned by McClatchey. I am a contractor for two McClatchey papers. Guns are a no-no for contractors and employees, so I'm sure they extend that to visitors as well.
The fact that ADN is a media source, it explains it all. 
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FarNorth
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 12:54 am |
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spyderdude wrote: sv_libertarian wrote: The Daily News is owned by McClatchey. I am a contractor for two McClatchey papers. Guns are a no-no for contractors and employees, so I'm sure they extend that to visitors as well.
The fact that ADN is a media source, it explains it all.
No,, I wasn't surprised at all about the ADN. I don't buy their rag anyway. I did find it amusing that they have a very large sign showing the first amendment, I mentioned to someone there that they really need to post the second amendment also because without it the other amendments really have nothing to back them up. They looked at me like I was a crazy man,, lol...
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sv_libertarian
State Researcher
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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 01:06 am |
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For each and everyone complaining about the ADN, just remember. Their existence means enough people are buying it, using it and supporting it, which means enough people accept what is put out. You cannot blame a business for selling a product people want. You don't like something they do or say tell them as much in an intelligent fashion. Enough people act they will listen.
McClatchey is in California and they have California lawyers. What do you think those lawyers have told them about guns? I'd go to the parent company that makes the rules before I got upset over the individual products that have to abide by what the company says.
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FarNorth
Regular Member
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Posted: Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 01:32 am |
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sv_libertarian wrote: For each and everyone complaining about the ADN, just remember. Their existence means enough people are buying it, using it and supporting it, which means enough people accept what is put out. You cannot blame a business for selling a product people want. You don't like something they do or say tell them as much in an intelligent fashion. Enough people act they will listen.
McClatchey is in California and they have California lawyers. What do you think those lawyers have told them about guns? I'd go to the parent company that makes the rules before I got upset over the individual products that have to abide by what the company says.
you're correct... I quit buying the ADN years ago,, had nothing to do with guns though...
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FarNorth
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 04:43 pm |
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Another place is the Sullivan Arena, they have a sign up stating no weapons allowed. This is a muni owned facility. Why would it be any different then City Hall? I know SMG manages the building but they don't lease it. Any ideas?
Thanks...
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Flintlock
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 05:45 pm |
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sv_libertarian wrote: For each and everyone complaining about the ADN, just remember. Their existence means enough people are buying it, using it and supporting it, which means enough people accept what is put out. You cannot blame a business for selling a product people want. You don't like something they do or say tell them as much in an intelligent fashion. Enough people act they will listen.
McClatchey is in California and they have California lawyers. What do you think those lawyers have told them about guns? I'd go to the parent company that makes the rules before I got upset over the individual products that have to abide by what the company says.
There used to be some conservative competition here. I fondly remember the Anchorage Times and I still remember the horror I felt when they were swallowed up by the ADN (McClatchey) many years ago.
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Flintlock
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Posted: Tue Jun 9th, 2009 05:55 pm |
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FarNorth wrote: Another place is the Sullivan Arena, they have a sign up stating no weapons allowed. This is a muni owned facility. Why would it be any different then City Hall? I know SMG manages the building but they don't lease it. Any ideas?
Thanks...
I am not interested in being a test case and I am not a lawyer, but here is my take on it...
The Loussac Library and the Sullivan Arena are owned by the Municipality. The no weapons signs were there long before Municipal Preemption was passed and in my opinion, those signs no longer apply. They are simply not allowed to enforce a restriction that is stronger than state law.
It's the same as those old Palmer ordinances that are not legally justifiable but at the same time, they were just never cleaned up, causing confusion from some law enforcement.
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spyderdude
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Oct 18th, 2009 10:21 am |
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Well I'm going to go ahead and say that Century 16 movie theater is an anti-carry establishment. Me and a friend decided to go catch Law Abiding Citizen at Century and we were OCing. We manage to purchase our tickets, walk past the huge crowd of people in line, and into the hallway where the individual theaters were located. All of a sudden we're approached by a man and a woman who say they were managers and informed us that we could not have our firearms in their theater. My friend told the male manager that he has open carried there many times in the past and had no problem but he got no response to that. They both seemed very nervous while interacting with us. We asked to see some sort of sign that showed proof of their policy, and for a full refund, we were escorted to the lobby and we recieved our refunds and were shown a sign that sits on the counter and at the very bottom it had their firearms policy.
We remained calm and polite the entire time.
Century 16 will no longer be getting my money until they change their firearms policy.
We ended up going to Dimond Center theater and caught the late showing there with no further problems.
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Alaskan Shooter
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 04:56 pm |
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spyderdude wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote: The Daily News is owned by McClatchey. I am a contractor for two McClatchey papers. Guns are a no-no for contractors and employees, so I'm sure they extend that to visitors as well.
The fact that ADN is a media source, it explains it all.
Not all media sources have a no firearms policy. The Fairbanks Daily News-Miner does not prohibit firearms inside the building. The publisher and management team are aware that open carry is legal.
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