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WARCHILD Regular Member 
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Sorry Venator, I one-uped on you. I was "Detained" in the Home Depot parking lot today by 2 state troopers and the Corunna Chief of Police! (Home Depot is in Corunna jurisdiction) They held me there for an hour and ten minutes, so it is much too involved to expalin entirely here. However you want to guess what my topic will be for this Sat.'s show is going to be. The trooper was very professional (I only had to deal with one, guess the other was a back-up, he never spoke to me), but the "CHIEF" of police--- totally different story--- he is the hardass you don't want to have this experience with. He was not only VERY un-professional, EXTREMELY AGRESSIVE , he tried his best to antagonize me into a confrontation! NOT with this old man, when in these circumstances-- KILL THEM WITH KINDNESS-- the more he realized, I wasn't going to his jail, the more frustrated and agressive he got! Were he a mad dog, I would have thought him rabid! only his mouth wasn't foaming just yet. But I was kindly working the situation that way!!! Anyway, you'll have to listen to the Saturday Afternoon Shootout, to here the full story and get the nitty-gritty details. Next show: Sat Apr 26th 3pm Moral of the story-- I DIDN'T GO TO JAIL--  and I think the chief is going to need some more grecian formula, tums, and a case of prozac. Remedial personality and people skills class wouldn't hurt either!!  C'mon guys; you wouldn't want me to spoil my ratings now would ya? Last edited on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 01:06 am by WARCHILD |
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dougwg Regular Member 
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TEASE!! I want the whole story now ! ! !  |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member 
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Me Too!!! |
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ghostrider Regular Member 
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SpringerXDacp wrote: Me Too!!!I'll third that. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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It would take me half the night to relate the FUN I had while being "Detained" and that's a lot of typing for an old man. Only thing I wish-- I had video--!!! |
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Michigander Regular Member 
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I think this is wonderful in a way, having this negative police contact. It makes certain that other cops will hear of it. The more the merrier, as far as spreading the word of OC. I look forward to listening to the radio show. You should call the local MSP post and ask if the Troopers would like to come on the show. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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By the way, this brings up an interesting point. If a chief is way out of hand, who do you complain to? |
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dougwg Regular Member
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The Mayor then the City Council |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: By the way, this brings up an interesting point. If a chief is way out of hand, who do you complain to? I wouldn't file a complaint, but it sure sounds like some education is needed, like say maybe an oc walk by a few educated people who just happen to carry guns, maybe in downtown -- CORUNNA--! |
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UTOC-45-44 Regular Member 
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SpringerXDacp wrote: Me Too!!! Oh,oh,oh...me too...ME TOO. PLEASE, you little tease TJ |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Ok, one little tidbit, when the chief checked out the magazine-- he made a point to show the trooper and didn't like what he saw and shot me a look of true dislike! I was max loaded-- 17mag- 1 in the pipe-- 135gr jhp of teflon coated Black Talons! He said they're illegal, I said no, the manufacture of teflon coated bullets was banned, not the possesion of ammunition purchased pre-ban. I have 2,000 rounds, would you like some. |
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harley2003rkc Regular Member 
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Well first of all, I'm sorry you were detained. Second, thank you for your contribution to society. You sir have done what I have only spoken of. Since the day I became enlightened I have said that an afternoon detained would be worth the loss of an afternoon just to educate the masses and the local PD. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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harley: thanks, and yes it was worth the time. Not since I was in the service and I told a full bird colonel "Sir, it is a medicaly proven fact that sex relieves tension and you appear very tense so why don't you go get F****d!" This was even more enjoyable than that event by far. This was my first experience with a cop who was so eager to take someone to jail and to see him getting more frustrated by the minute because he couldn't do so was --- PRICELESS-- I think my S**t eating grin and have a nice day as I left was the true cherry on the top! |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Ya know, you could just type out a few paragraphs at a time, and post that way. Even if you told us the whole story, I'm sure there'd be plenty about it to talk on for the show. Heck, discussing it on this forum may even provide additional material for the show. Kind of like a brainstorming thing. And, thanks for what you did. |
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Trigger Dr Regular Member 
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Yeah, how about us on the west coast that don't get your show? Jim |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Trigger Dr wrote: Yeah, how about us on the west coast that don't get your show?You couldn't get it on the internet? |
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adam40cal Regular Member 
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I just got one quick question then I can wait till Saturday haha. What did the chief say when you told him open carry is legal in the state of Michigan? |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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OK- you guys are as bad as kids,Background: I always ask the store mngr. of any business I go into if it is ok to OC in their store BEFORE I carry. I have been primarily OCing for the last 3yrs, except in those places requesting not to. I have carried in Home Depot for about 2yrs, off and on. More visible now with warm weather and no jacket. Never had a problem. There are 2 employess in the store that I have talked to who also carry but not while on the job. As I related on the show, in one case, a man with his two boys saw my gun and the boys became excited. I could see it was a problem for him to shop and try to control his boys so I covered it up with my shirt and went to a different aisle. Did I have to do that, no, was it the right thing to do, in my opinion yes. Did I bend the exercising of my rights to public pressure, NO-- It's called common courtesy to others. It's my right to carry and the man said nothing even after his boys became excited. He gave no emotional looks or actions, so I chose to help him out and relieve the excitement so he could do his shopping. Ok, all this just to explain, me, like all of us here are not looking for excitement or causing panic just to enforce our right to carry. Part 1: I was in Home Depot Mon. did my shopping and went out to my truck. I un-loaded my cart and walked over to put the cart into the rack in the parking lot. (yeah, I'm one of those who put's them away) I turned around and there are two state troopers and the Corunna chief boxing me in with their cars. I immediately pulled my elbows into my chest and put my hands on my shoulders, stood still and faced the officers as they came toward me, with their hands on their guns of course. The trooper told me not to make any moves toward my gun and I said I have no intention of doing so. :CORRECTION:He asked if I had a cpl. I told him yes and it was in my wallet in my left rear pocket, would you like me to get it. He said no, don't move I'll get it. The Chief then took my gun while the trooper was getting my wallet. The trooper was in front and a little left of me, the cheif moved in to the right and beside me within a couple of feet. The trooper said Home Depot called about a complaint with a man with a gun. I told him I didn't understand that because I had permission from the store to do so, and related to him about always getting permission from the stores before I carry there. The the trooper started into his rendition of how much trouble and excitement I have and could cause by such irresponsible actions. I ask him how much more could I have done other than ask permission. I'm not responsible for someone else's actions because the powers that be don't want to educate the masses that's it's legal to carry a gun and not to panic when they see one carried in a peaceful manner. Then he made his most intimidating comment: "They may revoke your cpl for such a foolish and irresponsible act." I JUMPED ON THAT ONE--- "How can this be cause for a revocation of my cpl, I have broken none of the restrictions of the license. I wasn't brandishing, under the influence, or acting carless in any manner. I have been polite, cooperated with you, surrendered my gun, provided all documentation needed, and have made no complaint about being detained for doing something legal." The trooper said, "You have a cpl, why don't you cover it up?" I said, because it is more comfortable, I don't like not having my shirt tucked in and it was too warm to wear my jacket. He said, "You know you can expect this kind of thing to happen." I told him I was aware of that and that I've been carrying for 4yrs now and this was the first time I have ever been challenged. I also told him that I had no problem with them stopping me. When I chose to wear the gun I took on the burden of responsibility that comes with that and my actions must reflect that responsibility. I could see in his face he was beggining to realize and (maybe a little respect) that I wasn't some smartass looking for excitement, because his posture changed and his mood more amiable. He asked why I chose to carry a gun. I told him when BG's decide to rob pizza guys for 20 bucks, I decided to have a deterent. He must have heard of the incident because he said "Your not in Flint". I told him, no, but I sometimes work on the east side of Flint and I never go without my gun. He dropped the issue on that. (he must know the east side of Flint also) Correction is in bold. sorry, lost my train of thoughts on the event. THIS is where the cheif steps up! Up next: what happened with the chief! Part 2: Ok, At this time I crossed my arms in front of me and kept them there the rest of the time. footnote: ALWAYS! assume this type of posture if you are like me, I am really bad at talking with my hands. With my arms folded, there is no way the cheif or trooper could say I made ANY aggressive movement! Given the cheif's aggressive actions and attempt to intimidate me, I was taking no chances! As the trooper was getting my wallet, the cheif took out my gun, removed the clip, cleared the pipe, and gave me a really hateful look. The trooper then began his 10 minute rendition again on how foolish it was to do this since I had a cpl. The cheif steps up: (I relate him to be ex-military definately, Marine or Drill instructor, I'd recognize that posture anywhere) he got within ten inches of my face and square in the eye contact and said, (a very aggressive step forward) "This isn't the old west you know!" I said, I know and I'm glad it's not. He said;"Then why are you carrying that gun." I said, because it's legal and I can. He said; "Well I don't think you should be carrying it." I said; Ok, that's your opinion and I respect that, but I choose to carry everywhere I go. As I was facing off with the cheif, I could see the trooper out of the corner of my eye, I can't speak for him or know for sure what he was thinking, but the look on his face and his posture said volumes. I think I surprised him with my composure in the face of the cheif's aggression. At this point the trooper stepped in and the cheif gave him my gun and stepped over to his car. The trooper then told me he was mis-informed. It wasn't Home Depot who called, it was a concerned shopper. I told him ok, I can understand that and had no problem with it. I told him this re-enforces what I had said about public awareness and not making a panic call to 911. He thanked me for my co-operation and handed me my gun, which I refused. I told him I would rather he lay it in the seat of my truck and I will get it when I leave. He said ok, and put it in the driver's seat. The trooper then told me to consider what had happened here today and maybe change my view of open carrying. Cheif: "Wait a minute I want to check that gun and see if it's registered!" The cheif stepped toward my truck and I asked him if he wanted the green card. He said: (in his usual very aggressive tone) "No, I want that gun!" I had opened the truck door to leave and it was still open, so I stepped back and let him take the gun. He went back to his car and got on the radio. You're gonna love what happens next: unfortuneately you'll have to wait till tomorrow! Part 3: Finale': I ask the trooper why the cheif was being so aggressive and rude towards me. I have been more than helpful, polite and made no complaints. The trooper said that the cheif feels very strong about his opinon on open carry. I said I respect that but it gives him no right to be rude and treat me in such a way. I have been respectfu, even though he has tried to intimidate me, and for him to act the way he has is not only very un-professional it's un-called for. I told the trooper, you haven't acted that way, you have been polite and very professional. You told me your opinion and I respected that you have that right, but the cheif is way out of line. The cheif yells at the trooper, "That gun's not even his." The trooper walks over to the cheif's car and they talk. The trooper asks, "Who's Carl, you brother?" I told him yes, we have traded the pistol back and forth a few times. The trooper walks back over to my truck and asks if the pistol is registered, and I said yes, I gave you the green card for it. So as I was getting the card out again the cheif tells the trooper: "I'm calling the prosecutor, he can't carry that." Now this is just my opinion, but I think the cheif was having an orgasmic moment, thinking he had me by the short hairs and I was going to jail! The trooper started looking at the green card again and I showed him the date of the transfer, Mar '06. I told him my brother was dying from cancer and we transfered all his guns into my name while he was still able to do so. And that he could see it was done right in the Owosso city police station. The trooper walked over to the other trooper in his car and showed him the card and he got on the radio. When trooper #2 got off the radio, he gave the card back to trooper #1. The cheif told the trooper the prosecutor wanted to talk to him on the cellphone. As the trooper was talking to the prosecutor I could hear him say that it was a misread by the dispatcher, the gun was legally registered to me in Mar '06. The cheif shot me such a look of frustration, I thought he might pop, so I just gave him and wide grin and just stood there. I can't say for sure, but in my opinion, I think the trooper must have put the cheif in check while they were talking, because the cheif never said another word or got within ten feet of me the rest of the time. The trooper walked back over to my truck and told the dispatcher's mistake, she didn't scroll down to the last transfer and it was ok, the gun was legally registered to me. He then handed my gun back towards me and once again I told him to just put it in the seat. The trooper said I was free to go and was sorry for taking up so much of my time. I told him I didn't mind a bit if it will help educate the people and law enforcement that what I was doing is legal. I would gladly spend a couple of hours, I'm retired and time isn't a real factor. Again the trooper apologized for taking up so much of my time and have a good day. I said, thank you, you too. I then looked at the cheif, with an intenional s**t eating grin, and said have a good day! Too bad I already had breakfast, I could have fried an egg on his head! I go into my truck, loaded my TOY back up and slowly left the lot, making sure I went WEST, to Owosso, didn't feel like the cheif pulling a traffic stop on me for loud exhaust once I was on a public street. Now for me, it was time well spent. Gave me a chance to find out that the cheif of corunna has a strong opinion, and isn't very professional in doing his job. As I have related, I treated the trooper with equal respect as he did me and even to the cheif though he was agressive and tried to intimidate me more than once. Am I glad I pissed him off so bad, YES, the way he was acting he deserved it. Had I acted in kind, I would definately went to jail for any reason he could think of. I may not have even been charged, but the cheif would have loved the inconvience it would have caused me and the couple of hours or more it would have taken me to get out of jail. These are the chances you accept when you decide to OC. If you run into an officer like the cheif with the typical "I am God with a badge" attitude, you are in for a bad experience. So let your own confidence and common sense be your guide and make your decision carefuly, you may regret it later with the wrong LEO. There you guys happy? Now you don't have to listen to the show for "The rest of the story" I love Paul Harvey, best radio commentator EVER! Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 12:04 pm by WARCHILD |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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adam40cal wrote: I just got one quick question then I can wait till Saturday haha. What did the chief say when you told him open carry is legal in the state of Michigan? Adam: he knew, but agressively let me know his opinion. I'll relate his most un-professional behavior in the next part of the thread. Anyone want to join me for a walk in Corunna? Time for some further education. |
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mzbk2l Regular Member
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I always thought the Owosso cops were hardcases when I was a teen there, but I do remember the Corunna cops having an even worse rep. I'll have to be sure to test their knowledge of non-residents open carrying (with an AZ CCW) next time I'm back in Owosso for a visit. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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mzbk2l wrote: I always thought the Owosso cops were hardcases when I was a teen there, but I do remember the Corunna cops having an even worse rep. Corunna is even worse now, and after "MEETING" the cheif, I can understand why. Come get me, I'll gladly go with you. Maybe wear my dbl holster quick draw rig with 2 45's! |
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dougwg Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: adam40cal wrote:I just got one quick question then I can wait till Saturday haha. What did the chief say when you told him open carry is legal in the state of Michigan? Name the time and place and I'll walk with you! [as long as it's on the weekend ;-)] |
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Michigander Regular Member
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I'd be up for going OCing with you guys there if I wasn't about to move. In my opinion a picnic in Corunna might be a good idea.  By the way, if it were me, I would complain to the state police about being disarmed. They had no legal right to disarm you, because they had no probable cause to believe that you commited a crime. I'd call that unlawful search and seizure. Given that the MSP actually sent out a news letter detailing the legality of open carry, I would have hoped and expected that they would have diffused the situation. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: I'd be up for going OCing with you guys there if I wasn't about to move. In my opinion a picnic in Corunna might be a good idea. I posted an edit correction in the thread. the cheif took my gun. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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That I am glad to hear. The MSP has a hard earned reputation for being the best. I'm glad to hear it somewhat held true in this case. I would have been dissaproving of the Trooper taking your wallet, but it sounds like you implied permission. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: That I am glad to hear. The MSP has a hard earned reputation for being the best. I'm glad to hear it somewhat held true in this case. I would have been dissaproving of the Trooper taking your wallet, but it sounds like you implied permission. Yes I did, given the nature of the cheif's demeanor, it was a minor request so as not to escalate anything to a higher level. As I keep saying, let common sense be your guide. Each event is going to have it's own circumstances to evaluate when to stand your ground and when to give a little to make a bigger point! My own opinion, since I was there and all, I don't think I could have handled it any better than if I had practiced for it. Not to toot my own horn, but I was concerened how I would react in a situation like this and I came through very well. what I'm most happy about, other than not going to the cheif's grey bar hotel, I REALLY PISSED THAT CHEIF POLLIP OFF!!! any time I can piss off a pain in the ass cop like that, it was worth the time. enough said! |
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Michigander Regular Member
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I'm inclined to believe you that you handled this as well as possible. I just can't wait to hear the show covering the event. |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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I like to walk, it is good cardio and i need all the help i can get, how about a saturday or a sunday, i am one that has to work all week long..... Oh should i bring my weapon ? and my black talons also ?  |
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PavePusher Regular Member
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What show is this you speak of? Does it have a podcast? TIA! |
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Michigander Regular Member
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PavePusher wrote: What show is this you speak of? Does it have a podcast? TIA! Yes it does. One show is even available to view on youtube. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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PavePusher wrote: What show is this you speak of? Does it have a podcast? TIA! Yes, it's a podcast/video show called the Saturday Afternoon Shootout. Look in the Mich section in the Radio Show thread. The links are posted there. Myself, my son, Steve, and Brian (aka: Venator) host the show. It's every other saturday at 3pm. for a one hour show(give or take) You can listen to the past shows on FlintTalkRadio. Or talkshoe. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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mastiff69 wrote: I like to walk, it is good cardio and i need all the help i can get, Good to see another TALON owner--- you're going to like the cheif's reaction to these! |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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I am sure the chief is a good upstanding person I bet he just misunderstood the situation I bet he was just acking this way toward You because of your hat  (right!)Or better yet, he drank to much coffee  , forgot to take his MEDS ,AAHH he didn't get the memo OPEN CARRY IS LEGAL !!!!!!!Got the Chief job because nobody else wanted it  .. http://www.ratemycop.com Feel free to rate him or any other officers incounters good or bad!!!!!Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 03:39 am by mastiff69 |
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harley2003rkc Regular Member
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All that and I've got to wait for the rest of the story. |
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adam40cal Regular Member
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I"m game we should all go and give our support I'd also have a copy of the laws in my back pocket to let them know (that way they can't pull thats not legal bit they like to use). That chief would freak out seeing all us walk down the sidewalk. But if we're walking in in that city I gotta stop by that little taco shop I like lol |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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The word is getting around fast... http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=860992 |
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Michigander Regular Member
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The bcvojack guy in that thread brought up a good point, that teflon doesn't increase penetration. With pistol bullets, only hard metal with a pointy tip is all that good at going through soft body armor. Or perhaps a really fast round like 7.62x25. That will crack lighter Kevlar vests. The Talons are badass rounds though. They're wickedly effective hollow points, and they look cool too. Bottom line is the ability to go through a vest means very little it you can score a head shot. Especially a head shot with a bullet that mushrooms to 2 or 3 times its original size. Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 05:08 am by Michigander |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: The bcvojack guy in that thread brought up a good point, that teflon doesn't increase penetration. With pistol bullets, only hard metal with a pointy tip is all that good at going through soft body armor. Or perhaps a really fast round like 7.62x25. That will crack lighter Kevlar vests. I do remember reading somewhere (the net I think) about 2 or 3 years ago, that the teflon only acts as a lubricant, not a factor in penetration. Wouldn't mind having some myself. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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Yep, steel on steel or steel on tungsten is a terrible thing for your barrel, so the teflon lubricates the barrel, just like it does when you put it on pipe threads. |
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swillden Regular Member 
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SpringerXDacp wrote: I do remember reading somewhere (the net I think) about 2 or 3 years ago, that the teflon only acts as a lubricant, not a factor in penetration. That is what the Wikipedia article on the Black Talon says. It also says they were never banned, but just voluntarily withdrawn from production by Winchester, because of the misinformation about their armor piercing capabilities and the controversy it spawned. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: SNIP Bottom line is the ability to go through a vest means very little it you can score a head shot. Especially a head shot with a bullet that mushrooms to 2 or 3 times its original size. An interesting read from; The Gun Zone. http://www.thegunzone.com/black-talon.html Sorry Mods, I know, off topic. Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 05:38 am by SpringerXDacp |
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Blazingangel01 Regular Member
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Just wondering what did you get stopped with 17 shots? |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Blazingangel01 wrote: Just wondering what did you get stopped with 17 shots? Blazing, are you referring to warchilds' post? If so, when he was disarmed (according to his posts), the Chief cleared the weapon and realized he (warchild) was carrying a magazine with 17 rounds plus 1 in the pipe (chamber). Not sure why this would surprise someone, especially a LEO. Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 07:03 am by SpringerXDacp |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Blazingangel01 wrote: Just wondering what did you get stopped with 17 shots? The trooper was asking the mag capacity. I only keep 10rnds loaded. If I need more than 1, I don't need to be there! Besides, I have found from experience, keeping a mag, max loaded all the time tends to casue feed problems from the spring being constantly compressed. So with all my auto's, I short load to extend spring life. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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SpringerXDacp wrote: The word is getting around fast... I took another look at the comment made by someone on that link . I may have jumped the gun and took it the wrong way, along with blaming the wrong person. I strongly apologize to the forum and HerrGlock. Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 11:15 pm by WARCHILD |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: SpringerXDacp wrote:HerrGlock's post must have been removed or deleted, because there were none by him last night, nor this morning when I read it.The word is getting around fast... GlockTalk has a good OC element that is getting stronger, and spreading the word. You should read the sticky (on OC) in thier Carry Issues before passing judgment. They may even benifit from your input. |
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jhanson25 Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: SpringerXDacp wrote:The word is getting around fast... Thank you Jerry! I appreciate thoes kind words. I did just send a reply concerning that guys negative comments toward you. Some of the folks on that forum have their head up their arses a lot of the time. Only reason Im a member is I plan on getting a Glock in the next few weeks and want to learn what I can about the pistols themselves. I assume that he has never been put in that situation before. You handled the situation with near perfection and kudos on maybe giving the officers some education and thinking of us that OC in a different light. |
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Razoreye Opt-Out Member
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Please, for the love of god, learn how to spell "chief."  Other than that, keep us up to date.  |
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Razoreye Opt-Out Member
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WARCHILD wrote: Blazingangel01 wrote:Just wondering what did you get stopped with 17 shots? Keeping a magazine loaded to the maximum has no ill effects on feeding unless something is wrong with the magazine to begin with. Spring strength only weakens with the constant cycling of the spring, this is known as spring fatigue. Springs have a special property that help them retain their "original memory" so loading the magazine to the maximum capacity will not change that. Stretching the spring past its limits or compressing past its limits will change the properties of the spring and the "memory" causing problems. Luckily, the manufacture makes them to certain specs so loading/unloading is the only thing that will negatively affect the spring while it is in its magazine body. The irony here is you are actually shortening the spring's life if you leave it underloaded because you will be cycling the spring more often (running out of ammo and reloading it to 10.) The upside is if you don't shoot those magazines much then you probably won't see the effects of your loading procedure. Load up to the max. You may not need 17 but it's better to have it on hand when you don't need it then be 7 short when you do need it!Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 08:34 pm by Razoreye |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: SpringerXDacp wrote:The word is getting around fast... Actually, it was RussP (Mod at GT). I am not a member over at GT at this time, but, I did purchase a new G21SF, Pic Rail, Ambi Release today so I may join after all. I do enjoy the OC thread he started, among the other informative threads. Damn It...I did it again-off topic. Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 08:51 pm by SpringerXDacp |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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SpringerXDacp wrote: WARCHILD wrote:Okay, that does clear things up since I didn't see any posting by HG in that thread, but I'd still like to know what you guys consider to be the negative comments by Russ P. I say this because I think your not giving him the benifit of the doubt, so I'd like to know the specifics.SpringerXDacp wrote:The word is getting around fast... The following is the only statement I can see that he made in that thread: Gives you a taste of jhanson25's friend's attitude toward open carrying and interacting with the police.Maybe he is being negative but, I took it as him pointing out what a good example Jerry was. I've read a lot of his posts on OC on that forum, and this seems more consistant with his philosophy (so to speak). At any rate, I think it's only fair and proper to clarify it with him before trashing him on another forum. Last edited on Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 09:56 pm by ghostrider |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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I must have misread it, or got the name with the wrong thread, if that's the case, I strongly apologize to HerrGlock, I in no way intend to offend the innocent. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Razoreye wrote: Please, for the love of god, learn how to spell "chief." You know, I thought that looked worng, wrgon, WRONG! |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Thanks Razoreye: never thought of it that way, and after I did think about it, the feed problems I'm recalling were from when I used to shoot reloads. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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ghostrider wrote: SpringerXDacp wrote:WARCHILD wrote:Okay, that does clear things up since I didn't see any posting by HG in that thread, but I'd still like to know what you guys consider to be the negative comments by Russ P. I say this because I think your not giving him the benifit of the doubt, so I'd like to know the specifics.SpringerXDacp wrote:The word is getting around fast... You are 100 percent right, I took it the wrong way, named the wrong person and edited the original thread with an apology to HerrGlock and the forum. |
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sccrref Regular Member 
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WARCHILD wrote: Michigander wrote:I think you should have filed theft charges against the chief. You had 2 MSP officers as witnesses to the fact that he took your gun without your permission and no legal right to do so. That would have really chapped the chief's ass.I'd be up for going OCing with you guys there if I wasn't about to move. In my opinion a picnic in Corunna might be a good idea. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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sccrref wrote: WARCHILD wrote:Michigander wrote:I think you should have filed theft charges against the chief. You had 2 MSP officers as witnesses to the fact that he took your gun without your permission and no legal right to do so. That would have really chapped the chief's ass.I'd be up for going OCing with you guys there if I wasn't about to move. In my opinion a picnic in Corunna might be a good idea. Yes, I would love to file charges, but living in the real world, it would gain nothing more than possible harassment by the cournna dept. as a whole. I personally don't think the trooper's would cross the "Blue Line" to back me up. Besides, I think I made more of an impact on him the way it went down and I am satisfied with the outcome. While we're on the subject, my sugestion of a group OC in corunna may be viewed as a long walk looking for trouble, not to inform and educate as we mean. I do feel we need to inform the corunna police dept. as a whole that we are going to carry and they might as well expect and prepare their dispatchers for just such an occasion. Maybe we should wait a while and let the CHIEF's (I copied it) head return to normal color first. |
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kmcdowel Regular Member 
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WARCHILD wrote: Michigander wrote:By the way, this brings up an interesting point. If a chief is way out of hand, who do you complain to? Thanks for sharing WARCHILD. I think a formal complaint might knock this guy off his high horse....at least for a day or so. It would also lead to some education within the PD. I'm sure it would have no negative effect on his career, just adjust his attitude towards us law abiders. Either way, you handled it very well. |
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UpNorth Regular Member
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I would think that the Home Depot had video of their own. Keep it under your hat until a subpoena is gotten, wouldn't want that to disappear much like the on car video will.... |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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UpNorth wrote: I would think that the Home Depot had video of their own. Keep it under your hat until a subpoena is gotten, wouldn't want that to disappear much like the on car video will.... They do have video, without audio and only covers about 20ft. from the doors. But like I said, I'm not looking to directly pursue the incident any further. |
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jaredbelch Founder's Club Member
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I think you handled it very well. |
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harley2003rkc Regular Member
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If we're going to plan a Corunna OC walk, may I suggest we pair up in groups of two and go our seperate ways. This would ensure that the chief is forced to deal with the possibility of multiple calls. If nothing else it would force his officers to make decisions because they certainly wouldn't be able to send in the cavalry on all of us. I'm sure we can send out more groups of two then he has officers. And I'm sure he would not want individual officers confronting us in two's. |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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I like your idea of two by two. Must be that barney fife made chief. I only wish that before they roll on a GUN call that they know the law or just stay at home, and learn the law, maybe a refresher course!!!!!! I understand the chief doesn't care for Talons in our guns (hum) guess thats what will be in my mags only. Looks like they have 8 total full/parts time officers according to there web site Last edited on Fri Apr 25th, 2008 01:39 am by mastiff69 |
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Razoreye Opt-Out Member
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WARCHILD wrote: sccrref wrote:WARCHILD wrote:Michigander wrote:I think you should have filed theft charges against the chief. You had 2 MSP officers as witnesses to the fact that he took your gun without your permission and no legal right to do so. That would have really chapped the chief's ass.I'd be up for going OCing with you guys there if I wasn't about to move. In my opinion a picnic in Corunna might be a good idea. I think that's the best idea. LoL, copied it. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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mastiff69 wrote: I like your idea of two by two I meant to mention this before, (one of those old timer moments), The primary reason I handled this the way I did, i.e.-- no resistance, freely surrendering my gun, offering the green card, had an ulterior motive. I wanted to make this as much a pleasant experience for the officers as I could. After all, it is about informing and awareness. Excluding the chief, his opinion and actions won't change, I hope the next time the trooper has an encounter like this he will remember the last one (me) as being just a look and verify. No aggression, attitude, or violations. This will hopefuly change his approach to "Man with a gun" call. Suppose I had been an a$$, challenged his every move and question? His next encounter would remember that and automaticaly be in a defensive, this could be trouble mode. So for those who feel I surrendered my rights, yes I did, but look what was accomplished, more was done to strengthen my rights with cooperation, confidence, and respect. This trooper now knows I will carry my gun, not looking for trouble, but because I have the right to in order to defend myself. After all, isn't this the message we all intend to send? |
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Michigander Regular Member
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Yep, you did good Warchild. The older, wiser guys know how to set good examples. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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I am of the same opinion WARCHILD. I believe First encounters should be handled like this. (for us here in Michigan) Because we DO want to educate, inform and spread the word. The more that carry the better. Now, later, in a few years or so, when many more people know about OC is the time to really stand up and tell the offending LEO where to stick his unlawful requests. That being said, if I were you and was stopped by that Chief again. I would not be so nice and accommodating as you were the first time. |
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bobcat Regular Member
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Nice job Warchild. I learned a couple of things from your encounter, like keeping my arms folded to avoid any misinterpretation. 'Killing' them with kindness certainly works. I guess it takes us old timers to stay calm and keep the big picture in view on reintroducing and reinforcing our right to protect ourselves. Thanks again. |
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Thundar Regular Member 
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Warchild, You could fie a complaint with the department about the Chief of Police's aggressive and abusive behavior. That would leave a paper trail and give you a much stronger hand in any future encounter. Think about it. If the Chief of Police is that out of control with a fully cooperative older person, how will he react to younger citizens that choose to exercise their rights. I am not just talking about open carry when I say rights. Just something to think about. Bad apples like this chief should be retrained or removed from positions of authority. That will never happen if nobody complains. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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dougwg wrote: I am of the same opinion WARCHILD. In a few years!? I can truthfuly say if I met that chief tmw, I would MAKE IT A POINT to resist him with every leagal means open to me, including requesting the local state police post on corunna ave. send a supervisor to the scene immediately. Keep my mouth shut and ask for an attorney immediately! |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Jerry, Russ P is has actuallyl requested that you that you join over on GT in order to join the conversation there. jhanson25, do you think WARCHILD would come over here, sign up and join the conversation? I think you would make a good addition to that forum, so I hope you think about it. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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ghostrider wrote: Jerry, It would be a priviledge. I'm glad he is gracious enough to understand my errors, and will gladly join his forum. It will have to be tmw. I have some more research to do tonight, then old man nappy time. Early start tmw, 6a.m. Thanks for passing on the invite. Jerry |
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Chainsawz Regular Member
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Is this the uneducated individual? Attached Image (viewed 313 times): |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Chainsawz wrote: Is this the uneducated individual? YOU BET! He still looks a little red, doesn't he! |
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Chainsawz Regular Member
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Here is his email address: kwilliams@corunna-mi.gov I will be sending him the following links to assist in his re-education as I frequent this area myself. Dear Chief Williams: D ID YOU KNOW?Note: The following material does not represent new law. Instead, it is intended to inform officers of infrequently used laws which might prove useful. It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol As odd as it may appear, it is legal in Michigan for a person to carry a pistol in public as long as it is carried with lawful intent and not concealed. Of course, there are limits. First, a person may not carry a pistol into any of the places listed in MCL 750.234d. Second, a personmay not carry a pistol in a manner that violates the brandishing a firearm statute MCL 750.234e ). Finally, a pistol can’t becarried in public where it violates local ordinance. (Taken from: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_-_April_2007_198953_7.pdf) Also read: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_-_May_2007_198956_7.pdf |
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Chainsawz Regular Member
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Corunna web site: http://www.corm.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=29 |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Chainsawz: I thank you for your support and efforts to inform the chief, unfortunately, I sure he is well aware of the laws and doesn't care based on HIS biased opinion. I'm sure his only intent at the intimidation towards me was to support letting me know HE doesn't like and scare me into not doing it again. Thanks for his email, I won't be using it. I don't want to get into a one on one conversation with him unless it is public! |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Chainsawz wrote: Is this the uneducated individual? After I thought about it (hurts like hell) I have a question for the forum. I seem to remember a couple of years ago or maybe longer, the law enforcement jurisdiction restrictions were removed. i.e. a Flint city cop can give you a ticket or arrest you outside the city limits. Can anyone verify if this is true? If it is not true, and the jurisdiction restrictions are still in force, it poses another question: Why was the corunna chief at home depot. that's township, not within corunna city limits. Which means he has NO law enforcement rights there at all!! OPINIONS? |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: Chainsawz wrote:IAMAL but, I have heard of some jurisdictions having agreements with eachother. IOW, the city chief could have the authority to operate in the township with thier coopreation.Is this the uneducated individual? This is a question you might pose at Michigan gun owners forums legal section for a better answer. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Right Ghosrider, keep forgeting about the other threads. thanks |
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Venator Regular Member 
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WARCHILD wrote:
With a CPL you can carry a gun registered to someone else, come on Jerry you know this. In your case your brother was dead and you would need to register it in your name which you did. If he was still alive you would have been okay as well. I wonder if the Chief knows about this recent change in the law? I guess I can send him my standard 5 page information packet. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: I'd be up for going OCing with you guys there if I wasn't about to move. In my opinion a picnic in Corunna might be a good idea. I believe with a CPL the police can disarm you for their safety during an encounter with them. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Venator: you bet I knew this, thanks to you and the others, that's why I wasn't worried at all. I was enjoying the fact that I knew I was legal and the chief thought he had me dead to rights and take me to jail. The frustration he experienced after words--- PRICELESS! |
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Michigander Regular Member
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Venator wrote:I believe with a CPL the police can disarm you for their safety during an encounter with them. Sort of, but not in that case. That's covered under a Terry stop. A Terry stop involves reasonable, articulateable suspicion of criminal activity. I doubt very much that any of the officers there could have listed a crime they suspected Jerry of commiting, since there was none. It was unlawful detainment and unlawful seizure. But on the plus side, cops were educated, and no one was hurt. No harm no foul. The chief is just lucky that Jerry is so nice. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: Venator wrote:I may be wrong, but I believe they are given more lattitude when someone calls them, as was supposedly the case here.I believe with a CPL the police can disarm you for their safety during an encounter with them. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: Venator wrote: I believe with a CPL the police can disarm you for their safety during an encounter with them.
NICE! There you go trying to ruin my reputation as a low life pr**k! Thanks for the support though. Update: I talked to Home Depot about the incident, my friend there apologized for the incident. I told him there was nothing to apologize for. It wasn't them, it was a panicked customer. I told him since they were kind enough to give me permission to carry in their store, in the future I would cover up my gun. He said I didn't have to. I told him I would anyway, they were kind enough to let me carry in the store, I wouldn't repay that kindness with disrupting their store with a panicked shopper. He appreciated the gesture and thanked me and said no employee would ever call in regards to this without asking me to cover it up or leave and he doubts that would ever happen. A little courtesy goes a long way to build lasting friendships! |
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KBCraig Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: Ok, one little tidbit, when the chief checked out the magazine-- he made a point to show the trooper and didn't like what he saw and shot me a look of true dislike! I was max loaded-- 17mag- 1 in the pipe-- 135gr jhp of teflon coated Black Talons! He said they're illegal, I said no, the manufacture of teflon coated bullets was banned, not the possesion of ammunition purchased pre-ban. I have 2,000 rounds, would you like some. Thanks for the great story! I've already seen a reply that pointed out that Black Talons weren't banned in any way. Winchester just stopped selling them because of the publicity. What they make now is the Winchester SXT. And while they don't admit it publicly, everyone in the industry knows with a wink and a nudge that "SXT" stands for "Same eXact Thing". Black Talons were never Teflon coated. The black coating was Lubralox, which is an oxide finish. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: Venator: you bet I knew this, thanks to you and the others, that's why I wasn't worried at all. I was enjoying the fact that I knew I was legal and the chief thought he had me dead to rights and take me to jail. The frustration he experienced after words--- PRICELESS! Jerry, I would be willing to bet that if your situation only envolved the troopers, it would have been a non-event. Also, and not bashing, IMO, the Chief was just putting on a show for the troopers. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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SpringerXDacp wrote: WARCHILD wrote:Venator: you bet I knew this, thanks to you and the others, that's why I wasn't worried at all. I was enjoying the fact that I knew I was legal and the chief thought he had me dead to rights and take me to jail. The frustration he experienced after words--- PRICELESS! No, I really don't think it was a show for the troopers. He didn't like it and wanted to make sure I knew it. |
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Venator Regular Member
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I mailed the Chief my info packet for LEO's. I'm not holding my breath for any response from him. They do seem to have a nice park, and good place for an open carry picnic get together. Last edited on Thu May 1st, 2008 03:41 pm by Venator |
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BB62 State Researcher
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WarChild, You are THE MAN. Nice job being informed and keeping your cool! |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Thanks, and this gives me the perfect lead into--- I was at Home Depot today at 1pm, I was standing at the contractors check out desk and you'll never guess who I saw pull up in the parking lot-- the chief and the Shi-county sherrif k-9 unit! Now I immediately start thinking someone called 911 again, even though I had my jacket over the gun, the end of the barrel still shows. So I'm getting ready for the same scene to play out again. As soon as the chief came in the door we made eye contact. He was definately surprised to see me there! (told him I was there a lot) The chief and the sherrif walk directly over to me at the counter. The chief looked directly at my side to see if I was carrying a gun. (of course I lifted my jacket a little more as he had walked toward me). He spotted my gun, but to my surprise said "Hi, how are you doing?" I said, real good today, how about you? Ok, he said. He was actually polite and had a slight smile on his face! The deputy then ask the clerk where the manager was, they recieved a silent alarm notice. The deputy and chief walked to the back of the store. To say the least I was in a mild shock! They came back a few minutes later and talked a bit to the clerk. The chief was difinately keeping an eye on me, but said nothing. They both finally left out the door and I watched as the deputy left and the chief stayed in his car setting in the lot. We got our stuff and went outside. We loaded the truck and pulled out of the lot. Oddly enough the chief decided to leave at that time. I figured a traffic stop was about to happen, but it didn't! We went right and he went left towards cournna. Summation: I decided to re-think the experience with the chief. His demeanor was un-called for most definately. But, just maybe that was his way to try and antagonize me and see if he was dealing with a hot head carrying a gun and maybe scare me enough not to carry anymore. That doesn't make how he acted ok, but I think I can understand now what he may have been doing. I don't think his feelings about open carry have changed but at least this time he was polite and more friendly. Maybe too that he realized I stood my ground and still have the determination to carry no matter what the experience. Who knows, maybe future encounters may lead to some mutual understanding and exchange of worthwhile information. |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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To many eyes, and ears in the store and monitoring cameras ? Maybe thats why he waited to leave after you left and follow you for a little bit to make you wonder ( alittle loving reminder ) |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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You're right, I took that into considertion also, i.e., watching me, waiting for me to leave. But like I said, we'll have to wait and see how future encounters go. |
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Ford Truck Regular Member
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mastiff69 wrote: To many eyes, and ears in the store and monitoring cameras ? You are just so cynical. You remind me of myself. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Speaking of eyes and ears--- NEWS FLASH--- I found out this a.m. who called 911 at Home Depot---- one employee I talk to quite often, who also has a cpl, approached me and told me he knows the guy that called 911. I said oh really, who was it. He said the guy is a deputy sherrif of lapeer county, lives in lapeer and I know him. So there we have it. Based on what this guy says, it was either an un-informed LEO from lapeer, or just one that likes to cause possible grief to a law abiding citizen just for carrying a gun and he doesn't like it! Of which I would consider him kinda chicken s**t, if he were that concerned, why not challenge me and identify himself as LEO and then call 911. Opinions--- |
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UpNorth Regular Member
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Sure hope he doesn't try to get you for failing to inform him you were CCW and etc.... |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Since he wasn't even part of any investigation, and his contact with the Chief was only in passing(on his recent encounter), there's about as much chance of that being considered "failure to inform", then there is for him getting in trouble for OC. I personally think the Chief's actions were typical. His goal was to intimidate you into not OC’ing, and he accomplished that. People of his sort are not the type you “go along to get along” with, because they usually see that as a sign of weakness, and only continue the pressure (this may, or may not have been the reason he waited until you left before he made his exit). It’s the same with the Deputy who called in. Their goal was to get you to comply with their wishes, and they accomplished that. In their minds, they probably believe they accomplished that through intimidation and or enforcing their will onto you, and it was only reinforced by your CC next time they encountered you. I know you don’t look at it that way, but that’s probably the way they see it. To them, they pressured you to not OC, and it worked. Problem with this type of mindset is that, when they discover that they didn’t actually intimidate you into complying with their will, it will only further frustrate them. This is usually followed by and increases in pressure from them. On a future encounter, he may well give you a line along the line of, "If it shows, then it's in violation of not being concealed". I'd like to give the Chief the benifit of the doubt, but based on your recolection of the initial encounter, it's more a matter of judging his character based on his actions. You’re obviously the type of person who believes in working with people to accomplish a common goal. I’m guessing that they are the type who believes in making others follow their agenda (common among LEO since they are trained to maintain control of situations, and that’s one of the more common ways), and usually accomplish that through intimidation. Just my $.02. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Ghostrider: I agree with you completely. That's exactly the meaning I was trying to get across, save one, they may think they intimidated me into not oc-ing, and that's ok. But I chose to cc as a solution at Home Depot as a favor to them, not as a requirement by them or the attempted intimidation by the chief. Home Depot employee even told me I didn't have to conceal in his store, but I choose to as a courtesy to them. I was going to inform the chief of that, but wasn't looking to start anything in the store or while I was with my family. As you and I have said, any future encounters will tell. |
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NervisRek Regular Member 
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My only question is this...... am I the only one that wonders what would have happened if the chief had gotten there first or even had he been the only response to the call? He probably would have thrown you so far in jail that they would have had to feed you with a slingshot, not to mention the legal fees it would have cost you to clear everything. I'm glad the ending turned out the way it did, but it sure could have been costly. I've personally talked to the AG about the open carry law that's still on the books, and he doesn't have a problem with the law, but he also says that it's not something that the law enforcement community would like the general population to be aware of. The question of "open carry" actually stopped a training class at the Oakland Police Academy" when I had my son ask about the consequences of OC. It seems as if every instructor, (even the Chief of Southfield Pd) who was an instructor of a class, had a different idea on how to handle the situation of a call for OC. The majority of the answers were such as "I'd slam their butts in jail so fast, yadda, yadda., I'd arrest their butts for public disturbance, etc. The bottom line it's an uphill struggle. |
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TAC Regular Member
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The individual that called 911 had no reason to do so, and should have been questioned as to why they did. Plain closed detectives often carry openly. I'm quite certain people are not calling 911 on them everyday just because they saw their weapon. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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TAC wrote: The individual that called 911 had no reason to do so, and should have been questioned as to why they did. Plain closed detectives often carry openly. I'm quite certain people are not calling 911 on them everyday just because they saw their weapon. As I posted, the person turned out to be an off duty lapeer county deputy sherrif. If he had been that concerned, he should have challenged me himself! But no, the "CHICKEN S**T" had to call 911, and watch from a hiding spot. I really hope it frosted his jewels when he seen they had to let me go! |
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TAC Regular Member
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MCL 750.234e). Finally, a pistol can’t be carried in public where it violates local ordinance. The above is also a misleading statement. Local ordinances against open carry can not be passed by local authorities. They need the approval of the State Of Michigan to do so. The State will not grant that permission. 2-1990 MCL 123.1102 (PREEMPTION LAW) A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to,… ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms,... This law was upheld by the MI Supreme Court.
Last edited on Mon May 5th, 2008 01:48 am by TAC |
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Venator Regular Member
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TAC wrote:
Most everyboby that has spent time on this site know this. Local ordinances on firearm carry are illegal. |
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Seif5034 Regular Member 
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why are they allowed to keep that if it's unusable? i'd think that they would just toss it out or are they hoping to scare people away from OC and/or hoping to get the state to approve a regulation? Last edited on Sun May 25th, 2008 04:51 am by Seif5034 |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Seif5034 wrote: why are they allowed to keep that if it's unusable? i'd think that they would just toss it out or are they hoping to scare people away from OC and/or hoping to get the state to approve a regulation? Strictly for the factor of INTIMIDATION for the un-informed!! Scare them into not carrying a gun in plain sight. As such, the need for this forum and others like it, to educate and inform the general public of their rights and how to defend themselves. This is also the sole purpose of my radio show. With thanks to this forum's help and the listeners, the show is doing great. To support their reasoning, just web search STUPID LAWS--- you'll be surprised what kind of stupid laws are still on the books. Not to say that they are enforced, but they are still there. I don't remember what state right off hand, but there is still a law on the books that it is illegal to carry your lunch in a brown paper bag! GO FIGURE! |
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adam40cal Regular Member
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Heres one thats still on the books. Any person over the age of 12 may have a license for a handgun as long as he/she has not been convicted of a felony. http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/michigan |
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Jared Regular Member 
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sccrref wrote: WARCHILD wrote:Michigander wrote:I think you should have filed theft charges against the chief. You had 2 MSP officers as witnesses to the fact that he took your gun without your permission and no legal right to do so. That would have really chapped the chief's ass.I'd be up for going OCing with you guys there if I wasn't about to move. In my opinion a picnic in Corunna might be a good idea. The chief taking you gun is illegal and an unlawful seizure of your property. The U.S. Supreme Court has already dealth with this issue. The case was Arizona v Hicks. Even if your gun was not registered, the evidence would have been tossed out because there was no reasonable suspicion that your gun or gun possession was illegal. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member 
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adam40cal wrote: Heres one thats still on the books. Actually, I'm pretty sure that one is no longer in the MCL. |
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teamreddog Regular Member
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I saw earlier someone asked about his jurisdiction over Home Depot. I will have to check into it at work a little better but I know in genesee county we deputise all the local PD officers. This gives them jurisdiction in the whole county. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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teamreddog wrote: I saw earlier someone asked about his jurisdiction over Home Depot. I will have to check into it at work a little better but I know in genesee county we deputise all the local PD officers. This gives them jurisdiction in the whole county. That was me. I know back in the day (when I had brown hair), the city officers had to have their lights on for the stop BEFORE they reached the city limits. The supposed end of their jurisdiction. If there was any dispute by the citizen, the officer would have to call the county or state for an officer to come out and support his stop. I was asking if Mich is still this way. I had been told the jurisdiction laws had been dropped. That ANY officer has the right to enforce no matter where he is in the state. i.e. a Flint cop can write you a ticket for speeding in Owosso, without calling for local officer support. Hence, if jurisdiction laws were in place at the time of my Home Depot detention, the Corunna chief had in essence STOLEN my gun in the presence of the State Troopers. Had I been sure at the time about this subject, I would have challenged the chief immediately! No one had the right to dis-arm me, let alone someone outside their jurisdiction. |
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