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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Michigan > List your open carry experiences here.
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Michigan > List your open carry experiences here.
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Venator Regular Member 
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One of the things that people new to open carry fear is that they are the only ones doing it. This Thread is for members to share their experiences good or bad while openly carrying. It is hoped that by sharing and in a way, documenting all of the open carry experiences we have in Michigan we will build a data base with some facts we can cite to those new to open carry. What we would like is for the members to, in a sense log the places and hours they open carry. List the hours you open carry a week, the places you carry, the towns, and businesses where you carry, etc. For example: 1) East Lansing, Beaners Coffe cafe-2 hours drinking coffee and playing chess. One person asked me if I was a cop. Otherwise no problems. 2) North Lansing Walmart, 1 hour shopping, no problems. |
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SQLtables Regular Member 
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Would it be better to log each "event", or a summary for the week, or what? Either way, here are a few from this last weekend. 1) Midland Wal-mart, 1.5 hours shopping, The guy didn't card me for ammo because "well, you have a gun, so..." 2) Saginaw Target, 30 minutes shopping, no problems 3) My sisters house in Millington, the lady buying our couch asked why I carry, they couldn't understand that I wasn't a cop ETA: I really like this idea. I carry, and I still wonder if I'm the only one  Last edited on Tue Jun 10th, 2008 06:26 pm by SQLtables |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member 
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If we ask real nice, do you think we can get one of the Mods to sticky this thread so it stays at the top?  |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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Went today to Lowe's home improvement this evening for 45 min to get garage door springs, then to gas station for a drink & chatted with the gal at the cash register for 5-10 min all while OC my full size H&K USP with a extended fluted stainless barrel in a black hawk rig. NOT ONE PROBLEM Boring evening just the way i like it |
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WARCHILD Regular Member 
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I have been oc ing for a little over 3yrs now. I cc'd for most of the first year after I got my cpl (due to the mis-informaton we were all given). I have carried in many cities in Shiawassee, Saginaw, Genessee, and Oakland counties. The primary city that I have carried in which I had early concerns-- Flint-- mostly east side. After more than 2yrs of ocing there and NEVER been challenged by anyone, I no longer have any concerns about carrying there at all. All of my challenged experiences have been within the last year. I'll list just highlights below. 1. Challenged at Walmart by a guy who, because my gun was showing and did I have a permit. I asked who he was to ask and he said he was an off duty LEO. Didn't offer a badge or ID, so I told him it was none of his damn business and if he had a problem with it he better call someone that gives a **** and I turned and walked out the door. It was his attitude that pissed me off. He really looked kinda stupid just standing there watching me walk away from him. 2. Challenged at Walmart by the night shift manager and told not to oc in the store anymore. I have since resolved that with a talk to the security manager. He will instruct his managers that Walmart policy is what ever is covered by state law. 3. Challenged at Home Depot this year (see Mich thread--911 man with a gun-- for the full story on that one. I have since been labled the "Trouble maker" by my friends at the Depot (they are making fun of the cops in the lot), and always ask me if I've had anymore "interviews". 4. Just this past Sat. downtown Owosso, Curwood festival going on, took a walk from parking lot to hardware store. About 100 or more people in that block walking around. Got a lot of looks and a few pointing fingers, but no one freaked out and I did my shopping, went to my truck and went home. There are about 5 or 6 LEO's who walk the beat in the streets during Curwood, and none of them showed up. These are the only challenges I have had in almost 4yrs of carrying CC / OC. As open carry is becoming more popular, I think much of the excitement will be dying down, but I will post my further carrying experiences as they "Don't happen". |
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jmlefler Regular Member 
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I've been OC/casual concealed in Kalamazoo for about 4 months (since I rec'd my CPL). While in OC mode I've been in Meijer's, Menards, Lowe's, Sam's, MC Sports, Golf Services, Barnes and Noble, Best Buy and in numerous gas stations and other stores with no complaints. Only 2 people have said anything; not negative, not positive just inquisitive. Interestingly, I have yet to see anyone else OC'ing in the area. |
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jmlefler Regular Member
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Venator, Certainly Sir, you are aware of the politically incorrect term "Beaner's" and will henceforth note that particular caffination station by it's politically correct term as "Bigby's".  |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:15 am by Venator |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:16 am by Venator |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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I wasn't really challenged, but I went in to the Saginaw JCPenneys last night to buy a belt. I was CCing my gun, but wearing the mag pouch that came with my XD, so it was clearly visible with my shiny silver mags in it. I was trying on belts, so I lifted my shirt, but I did my best not to show everybody I was carrying, just because... Anyway, my girlfriends sister works there, so we walked over to talk to her, and this dude in plain clothes came up and started talking to her about merchandise, and eyeing me up, I didn't think anything of it. Later that night, I talked to her sister, and she said he was Loss Prevention, and I was "flaunting" my gun around. No issues other than hearing that, to which I responded "good for him, I did nothing wrong" I assume he saw my two spare mags, and knew I had a gun, which is fine with me. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member 
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Well, I went to Walgreens, Aldi's and stopped at the new Speedway, near the South LPD precint. In Walgreens, the only comment I got was "nice piece, what is it?" from the guy behind the counter. (Para Ordnance P1445). At Aldi's, no comments, a LOT of staring. Ditto at Speedway when I went to pre-pay for the gas. (This place has had numerous drive offs, and has been held up once that I know of.) |
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springerdave Regular Member
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rode the last 30 miles of Sunday Harley ride ocing, oced today after work when the wife and I rode our mountain bikes on the state hiway a mile to the township park for a picknic supper, there and back. no problems, neighbors waved as they drove by. |
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Michigander Regular Member 
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These days it's easier to say where I don't open carry. I don't carry at work, and I don't carry where they have signs. But usually I don't shop at those places with no weapons signs. Arizona is awesome.  Although, I do feel bad for having left Michigan and made it easy on myself.  |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: These days it's easier to say where I don't open carry. I don't carry at work, and I don't carry where they have signs. But usually I don't shop at those places with no weapons signs. GUILT, GUILT, GUILT,---- NOT!!! Good to hear from you, hope you are doing well. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/11866.html Other than that, I'm doing peachy. Should be walking again in 6 weeks, and I'll be back at work in a few days.  |
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Jared Regular Member 
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Venator, can you send me a PM, I wanted to ask you something about Michigan but your e-mail feature is private. Thanks |
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Venator Regular Member
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I have been open carrying about a year now and do it primarily on the weekends and vacations. I can’t carry at work (policy). I can’t remember all of the places so will give a few examples that I can remember. Lansing: Various times in downtown businesses, at an open carry get together (park), in the State Capital building and other various state building (Museum/library, Secretary of State, etc.). I have carried in a Walmart on the north side, as well as the Krispy Kreme near the East Point mall. East Lansing: Mostly at Bigbys Coffee stores, and a few downtown businesses/restaurants (a Chinese place). Meridian Township: Bigbys, a few other stores and restaurants (Dennys,). Bath Township: Downtown diner and convenience store. Brighton: McDonalds at open carry get together. Flint: McDonalds at open carry get together. And when doing the talk show. Traverse City: Downtown shops, J&S hamburgers, Beulah and environs: Various downtown shops and shopping centers. Burton: Kelly Lake park, Picnic for about 4 hours, all went well, a few park goers asked some questions about OC. Last edited on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 01:22 pm by Venator |
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warlockmatized Regular Member 
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OC'ed for the FIRST time today at Kelly Lake Park in Burton, Mich. of course i was with a bunch of the fine folks from right here at OCDO, but none the less it was my FIRST time. thanks to todays outting i will be OC'ing more and more. we had absolutely NO issues. the place was crawling with families, kids and their pets. we had a few passers by even stop and take some info on the subject of OC'ing. it was VERY liberating. carry often and carry safe... |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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I was thinking about this after the get together today, and I can probably set up a form on my website to make this easier. I can create a backend database to organize all of the data, and you would just see a web form to enter the info. I don't know if this is something you'd be interested in or not, we would have to link to it from here. I also don't know how quickly I could have it ready, I'm pretty busy with work and school, but I'd do my best. Let me know. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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+1, i like the idea. |
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Roblamont80 Regular Member
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Thanks for the you tube up about WARCHILD'S home depot issue. I am new to the forum and was made aware of Open carry from a volunteer police officer who I go shooting with on a regular basis. I think before I start carring around town I will swing by the local police station to gauge how they feel. I have made a very good repor with them since I have been in every couple of weeks to get gun purchase permits! I walk in and they all laugh and ask me what I am getting and if I will let them shoot it, I uasually say I can work out some range time for them if they can give me a little cruiser time!!! I need to stop in there pretty soon because I am going to be taking my new Taurus pt1911 of layaway soon! Recently I have been gauging the public so I have left my pistol in my truck and where just my holster into the gas station or where ever. It gets looks, but nothing crazy, but we will see how the general public feels when they see my Taurus pt92 AFS. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Roblamont80 wrote: Thanks for the you tube up about WARCHILD'S home depot issue. I am new to the forum and was made aware of Open carry from a volunteer police officer who I go shooting with on a regular basis. I think before I start carring around town I will swing by the local police station to gauge how they feel. I have made a very good repor with them since I have been in every couple of weeks to get gun purchase permits! I walk in and they all laugh and ask me what I am getting and if I will let them shoot it, I uasually say I can work out some range time for them if they can give me a little cruiser time!!! I need to stop in there pretty soon because I am going to be taking my new Taurus pt1911 of layaway soon! Roblamont, be careful about asking authorities their opinion (gauging) of OC. You don't want to come across as asking for permission to OC when it's perfectly legal in Michigan to do so. With you knowing one or more of the officers in your area and being a bit more in a rural area-unlike some of us down here-you should not have any problems. ETA: Do you have a CPL? Last edited on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 08:09 am by SpringerXDacp |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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As Venator would say; better to be forgiven than ask permission! I had an extremely pleasant OC at --- Home Depot --- As I was waiting to check out a man came up to me and ask how can I carry a gun like that. Well, doesn't take much for me to start running of at the mouth about that. We stepped out of line and continued our conversation. I gave him some small handouts I carry in my wallet for just such an occasion. Them two more guys came up and ask the same thing. We all had an OC talk right there for about 20mins. I was actually glad to see the one guy, reach down and pull up his shirt and tuck it in, revealing a 1911/45. He had a CPL and as us all, was told it had to be concealed. He knows better now. My phone number is on the paper I hand out and one man called yesterday with his address and I mailed him a packet last night. We ended our talk, checked out and left. This is what it's all about guys. Here are three more individuals who are now aware of their rights to defend themselves. I think I need a bigger wallet (can't carry enough paperwork). You think I would look funny carrying a purse with my Taurus.  |
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Roblamont80 Regular Member
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Could you send me one of those packets? I would like to have the facts right next to my safty inspection cards. My address is Robert Lamont 204. Mary st. Apt. i Clare Mi,48617 This community is pretty small and largely hunters, so I don't think I would have any issues, but it is always better to be prepared for the worse so you don't get any suprises. I do not have a CPL yet, but I do hope to get one in the future. Every time I have the money to, I go and put it towards a new pistol!! |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Rob; welcome to OCDO, I would be glad to. Sorry but I will have to make some up this weekend and I will put it in the mail to you on Mon. Much of it you can read right here on the forum, including links to gun laws, case law and much more. But I will send you one anyway, no problem. Jerry |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:16 am by Venator |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:18 am by Venator |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Venator wrote: SQLtables wrote:I was thinking about this after the get together today, and I can probably set up a form on my website to make this easier. I can create a backend database to organize all of the data, and you would just see a web form to enter the info. Ok, I have a quick question about that. What kind of issues do you see if the form is public? I'm not sure that I would be able, nor allowed, to use the user database for the forum, so it would either have to have it's own username and password, or be open to the public. If it's open to the public, anybody could enter data, but anybody could also create an account here and post data. The difference is that we can respond more readily on the forum. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud. What do you all think? |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Venator wrote: This is what we hand out at meetings. Copy if you like and carry it with you. Do you happen to have this in as a Word Document, or a PDF file that you could email me? My reformatting abilities have been severely curtailed with age. If so, can you send it to michigan@pinkpistols.us ?? Thanks |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:18 am by Venator |
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Roblamont80 Regular Member
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A quick copy and paste and I will be good to go! Thanks. I love that youtube video of WARCHILD. Very good points that must be considered. Very smart not to take the gun from the officer!! That's the kinda of thing that could be miinterpreted and put you in a pine box! Good thinking, I think it is great to let others know about these events that you must not put yourself or others into. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Some pictures of our various outings around southern Michigan. I thought I would put them on this thread and will edit them as we add more. Attached Image (viewed 2386 times): |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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warchild and myself look like we called eachother to co-ordinate outfits lol |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: warchild and myself look like we called eachother to co-ordinate outfits lol Great minds think alike-- almost -- I only wear shorts to scare kids on halloween |
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Darth_Tux Regular Member 
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My question is, has anyone had a negative encounter with a LEO? and how did you handle it. Would also like to suggest a open carry meeting in Grand Rapids at the Calder Plaza. |
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Furner Regular Member 
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Darth_Tux wrote: My question is, has anyone had a negative encounter with a LEO? and how did you handle it. Would also like to suggest a open carry meeting in Grand Rapids at the Calder Plaza.Im all for a GR meet, but I think a city park would be a better choice than Calder Plaza. On a unrelated note, I will be OC-ing at Holland State Park this weekend. Ill check back in on Monday. |
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Roblamont80 Regular Member
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Welcome to the site Darth_Tux. You should take a look at this video. Warchild describes one of his expirences he had at a Home Depot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I40zAQGhXkU Pay attention to how he acts and why. He handles the situation in a manor to minimize greif for all parties but stands his gound on the facts. Good methods and practices on his part makes the situation a learning expierence instead of an arrgument about rights. |
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ghostrider Regular Member 
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Darth_Tux wrote: My question is, has anyone had a negative encounter with a LEO? and how did you handle it. Would also like to suggest a open carry meeting in Grand Rapids at the Calder Plaza.I don't OC myself, so I can't answer your first question. On the second statement, why Calder Plaza? Other than it being in the heart of down town, and close to the pollice station, what does it have to offer besides flat concrete with little shade from the sun? It's not like it's a park. Are there restrooms available, and is a permit required? Not trying to shoot down your idea, it's just that I never though about anything like a picnic at the Calder (although it would make a great backdrop for a group pic). It's too bad they don't have a decent park in the heart of down town for such things. Ford Museum comes to mind, but I don't know about the facilities, or if it qualifies. They do have nice grounds. What about Riverside Park? It isn't down town, but it's a fairly active park, and has facilities (wonder why they haven't gotten rid of the porta jon's and gotten back to the regular facilities), as well as pavillions with tables. Last edited on Sat Jun 21st, 2008 03:48 pm by ghostrider |
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lockman State Researcher 
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The wording in the flier or citing statute and/or opinion in the above posts do not state or imply MI does not honor non-res CPL's. IN my reading here I would be under the impression I could carry openly into areas allowed under the CPL exemption. It states a permit issued by any other state. Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute. Does the non resident provision only affect carrying concealed and in vehicles? |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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I had another good experience Thursday at Walmart. I was in the sporting goods getting a new reel and a small boy and his dad came up the aisle. The boy whispered to his dad; That guys got a gun. His dad said "That's ok, it's legal for him to carry it and I'm glad he can". I almost sh*t myself! I turned and looked at the man. He was in one of the power scooters with an apparent ankle injury. I gave him a slight grin, and waited, but nothing further was said. I left with a better feeling that the word is getting out and I will strive to continue to do so. |
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Roblamont80 Regular Member
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Smallest moments remind you that it just might be ok!!! I love parents who teach there kids truth instead of propaganda!!! Kudo's to the father for making steps at raising a child with a better understanding of the REAL world around them. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Roblamont80 wrote: Smallest moments remind you that it just might be ok!!! Well said, my thoughts exactly. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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lockman wrote: The wording in the flier or citing statute and/or opinion in the above posts do not state or imply MI does not honor non-res CPL's. IN my reading here I would be under the impression I could carry openly into areas allowed under the CPL exemption. It states a permit issued by any other state. Not in AG Opinion, but in state law, 28.432a Persons to whom requirements inapplicable. Check out This link: Michigan Firearms Law |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member 
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Furner wrote: Darth_Tux wrote:My question is, has anyone had a negative encounter with a LEO? and how did you handle it. Would also like to suggest a open carry meeting in Grand Rapids at the Calder Plaza.Im all for a GR meet, but I think a city park would be a better choice than Calder Plaza. I would be interested in a local park meet. I would not be comfortable at Calder. GR does have a local ord. against open carry. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: Furner wrote:Darth_Tux wrote:My question is, has anyone had a negative encounter with a LEO? and how did you handle it. Would also like to suggest a open carry meeting in Grand Rapids at the Calder Plaza.Im all for a GR meet, but I think a city park would be a better choice than Calder Plaza. Don't forget the 1990 Pre-emption law. City ordinances in this issue are not enforceable, therefore, meaningless. |
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dougwg Regular Member 
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Sailorwatson wrote: Furner wrote:Darth_Tux wrote:My question is, has anyone had a negative encounter with a LEO? and how did you handle it. Would also like to suggest a open carry meeting in Grand Rapids at the Calder Plaza.Im all for a GR meet, but I think a city park would be a better choice than Calder Plaza. The Grand Rapids local ordinance is voided by preemption as such it should be a moot point. Last edited on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 04:43 pm by dougwg |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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O/C at save-o-lot food store in Battle Creek Mi for 30-45 minutes no problems. Did not notice anybody running away, or scared, everybody was in a good mood !! |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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It occurs to me, I have an open carry experience at least twice a day, 4 days of the week. usually once on my way to work, and once on my way home from work, and no one ever gets afraid, or nervous, and yes, they do look, but I think most would look anyway, to see exactly what uniform I'm wearing. I work as a security officer, 4 days each week, and it amazes me, no one seems to care that I'm packing. Why, you might ask, am I amazed? Because Michigan has no state mandated (or standardized) training for security, armed or otherwise. You don't need a CPL to be an armed guard in Michigan. Of course, without the CPL, you can't carry it in the car, you have to lock it up. But they can't keep you from packing while on your feet. Now, some people might not object to this. But I have to tell you, as a professional security officer, it scares me. It's one thing for a private person to walk around carrying a pistol. That's a God-Given right, and I think everyone should excersize it. But when someone pays for professional service, then I think they deserve professional service. Granted, most security companies in Michigan have some sort of home grown training. But having been through armed guard training in Illinios (over 29 years ago), I have to tell you, if it's not standardized, there's no telling what some guards are being taught. Personally, I hope they all get CPL's, but that's no guarantee either. I've heard horror stories about instructors giving out false info. I hope those are few, but, you just don't know. Ok, I'm done with my Rant now.  |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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dougwg wrote: Sailorwatson wrote:Furner wrote:Darth_Tux wrote:My question is, has anyone had a negative encounter with a LEO? and how did you handle it. Would also like to suggest a open carry meeting in Grand Rapids at the Calder Plaza.Im all for a GR meet, but I think a city park would be a better choice than Calder Plaza. You are absolutely correct. I am not, however, in a position to make that challenge. Besides, it would put both me and the GR City Attorney in an awkward position. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote:You are absolutely correct. I am not, however, in a position to make that challenge. Besides, it would put both me and the GR City Attorney in an awkward position. Ok, enquiring minds want to know, what awkward position could that possibly be? |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Well, I've had probably a couple more hours OCing in Walmart in Saginaw and Midland, as well as Target. Also, I finally got the nerve to OC in Frankenmuth. It's not that I was worried about any trouble, but I want to work for the PD, and I live and work here in town, so it's very likely that I could see my bosses and I'm not sure how what they'd think about it, even though I'm not too worried about that. I didn't wear my normal serpa, but I did have my shirt tucked in with my normal CC holster, so half of the gun was exposed. My girlfriend and I walked all through downtown this weekend, and if you've ever been in Frankenmuth on the weekend, you know it's very busy. I have absolutely no issues, and only a few looks. |
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mvpel Regular Member
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Big Gay Al wrote: But when someone pays for professional service, then I think they deserve professional service. Granted, most security companies in Michigan have some sort of home grown training. But having been through armed guard training in Illinios (over 29 years ago), I have to tell you, if it's not standardized, there's no telling what some guards are being taught. Heck, there's no telling what some POLICE OFFICERS are being taught. N.H. Cop Shot In Chest By Fellow Offiicer How's that for "professional service," eh? |
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starshooter231 Regular Member 
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I OCed last night and today. First stop gas station @ 3AM no problem I don't even think the guy noticed it. Second was the coffee shop again nobody noticed it. Stop number 3 was the cable company and again nobody noticed. The last stop was for another coffee and again nobody said anything. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Gotta watch those cable company offices. Mine (Comcast) has a sign about "no weapons allowed" or something to that effect. I'm in there for such a short time, when I do go in, it's covered. Even if they find out, all they can really do is ask you to leave. Until they do that, sign or no sign, you've not broken any laws. |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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NO GUN ALLOWED NO MONEY I use Direct Tv NO SIGNS ON MY BILLING ENVELOPE |
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Venator Regular Member
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I'm on vacation and have been going to the Phoenix cafe in Buelah, MI with no problems opening carrying (3 previous times) until Sunday. To my surprise the owner asked me what's up with the gun? I said I carry for all lawful purposes...etc. He tells me some costumer has some concerns (I thought I was a customer, but I guess not.) He asked me to take the gun to my car, I say I'll cover it up which I did. He comes back two minutes later and said he talked it over with his partner and they don't want guns in the cafe. I told him if I concealed how would he know, he said he wouldn't that he's not against guns, he just wants to keep his customers happy...but not me I guess. I told him his business would be put on a website as anti-gun, he said he didn't care. At this time he doesn't have a no guns sign, so concealed carry seems ok...for know. So if anyone wants to send a nice and professional comment on his lose of firearm owners that would let him know that some potential customers will not be stopping by for coffee or food. The website is below. Thanks. http://hometown.aol.com/TheBeulahPhoenix/ |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Venator wrote: I'm on vacation and have been going to the Phoenix cafe in Buelah, MI with no problems opening carrying (3 previous times) until Sunday. To my surprise the owner asked me what's up with the gun? I said I carry for all lawful purposes...etc. He tells me some costumer has some concerns (I thought I was a customer, but I guess not.) He asked me to take the gun to my car, I say I'll cover it up which I did. He comes back two minutes later and said he talked it over with his partner and they don't want guns in the cafe. I told him if I concealed how would he know, he said he wouldn't that he's not against guns, he just wants to keep his customers happy...but not me I guess. I told him his business would be put on a website as anti-gun, he said he didn't care. At this time he doesn't have a no guns sign, so concealed carry seems ok...for know. Brian, is there a 'Contact Us' link on that site? I could not find it. |
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theboyzmom Regular Member 
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Well, I did my first OC today!!! I carried into the Dairy Queen in Mt. Morris and the BP at 75 and Mt. Morris Rd. Amazingly the person that was most freaked out was my 15 year old- who did not notice until I commented on it. After he saw we did not get in trouble he wants me to do it more. Said it makes him feel safe. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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theboyzmom wrote: Well, I did my first OC today!!! I carried into the Dairy Queen in Mt. Morris and the BP at 75 and Mt. Morris Rd. Amazingly the person that was most freaked out was my 15 year old- who did not notice until I commented on it. After he saw we did not get in trouble he wants me to do it more. Said it makes him feel safe. The way it should be...no issues. Congrats!!! |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Brian: Too bad. I guess "Out of town" happy customers don't count. You should have told him that and left. (after negotiating a discount bill for unfinished meal/coffee). Other than that, I hoping you're having a great time. Tune in tmw @ 3. I'm doing my first solo show. See you soon. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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SpringerXDacp wrote: Venator wrote:I'm on vacation and have been going to the Phoenix cafe in Buelah, MI with no problems opening carrying (3 previous times) until Sunday. To my surprise the owner asked me what's up with the gun? I said I carry for all lawful purposes...etc. He tells me some costumer has some concerns (I thought I was a customer, but I guess not.) He asked me to take the gun to my car, I say I'll cover it up which I did. He comes back two minutes later and said he talked it over with his partner and they don't want guns in the cafe. I told him if I concealed how would he know, he said he wouldn't that he's not against guns, he just wants to keep his customers happy...but not me I guess. I told him his business would be put on a website as anti-gun, he said he didn't care. At this time he doesn't have a no guns sign, so concealed carry seems ok...for know. Well there is the web mistress, JudyLaugh@aol.com |
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ruger45 Regular Member 
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I went OCing today, took my dog to Petsmart in Grand Blanc to get him groomed. Dog did not end up getting groomed, dog tried to take lady's face off. We were in the store approx. 20 minutes looking around. I had a few glances, no question. Then the wife & I went to Wal-mart in Burton on Court St. OCed in there for 30-45 minutes. No questions, few glances. Then on the way out, my wife stopped to buy a pop from the vending machine. A guy, not an employee, a customer, came up behind me & told me that this was not an open carry state & that I need to put my gun away. I told him it is legal. He asked me what state I was from.  I got out my trusty papers & showed him that it is in fact legal to OC in Michigan. Come to find out, he is a fire fighter/EMT & has a CCW. He said he would have to call his instructor who is a Flint cop to ask him about it. |
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theboyzmom Regular Member
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Wonder if it is the same instructor I had. He was also a Flint cop and said that OC was not legal in Michigan. Which seems strange - as a police officer I would rather have the gun out where I can see it as opposed to having it as a hidden surprise. |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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he did say he would check into it cause he would rather o.c than have it coverd up I gave him this web site to check out |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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ruger45 wrote: he did say he would check into it cause he would rather o.c than have it coverd up I gave him this web site to check out Another one on our side. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Confidence and Freedom; Gotta love it. Today before the show I stopped at Harbor Freight Tools. As I was approaching the door, a large man by the phone gave me a nasty look as I entered. I have carried there before and no problem or challenges. I got my tools and was standing in line to check out. I noticed outside the window, the large man I had seen was with another large man, giving me the hard stare. Man #2, then gets on his cellphone and I kinda know what he's relating by him demonstrating on himself on the position of my gun. I lauged to myself, here we go again. I paid for my tools and as I was walking out the door, man #2 with the phone says: "Don't run off, I've already called the police". I said, ok, have a nice conversation with them. He said "I got your plate number too". I said ok, come see me sometime and I will talk to the cops anytime, tell them, I'm going east on I-69 and getting off at Dort hwy. Have a nice day. I got in my truck and left. No cops, no follow, NO PROBLEM! I will have to admit, for 3yrs, I was not challenged. Now as expected, as it becomes more common and word is getting out, I have been challenged more in the last 6mos. than the previous 3yrs. Not that I mind at all. I am really starting to enjoy being able to face a challenge with total confidence. Thanks to this forum and all the people in it. |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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Hey warchild i was at the Battle creek harbor freight they just opened, i had no problems, or bad people hanging out just me. Maybe you should start shopping in the battle creek store Oh or is it that your looking more shady now that you retired Have a nice week end. We hope to be at the john ball park on july 12 |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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mastiff69 wrote: Hey warchild i was at the Battle creek harbor freight they just opened, i had no problems, or bad people hanging out just me I'm glad someone recognizes my finer qualities! No problem with the store, the assit. manager was at the register when I checked out, no problem. Maybe it's my hat? OOPs--- have a good time at the picnic, sorry but I have my show that weekend. I hope to have a call from the picnic though, for the live show. Oh yeah, I'm retired, everyday is the weekend Last edited on Sun Jun 29th, 2008 02:53 am by WARCHILD |
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springerdave Regular Member
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June 28 OCed Alpena Marithon station fueled up car then payed inside-no problem-oced in Dairy Queen in Lake City on M-55 no problem oced in Sparta Family Fare no problem- . Tomorrow is another day. will be on the road in different places in the lower p. See ya there. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: SNIP man #2 with the phone says: "Don't run off, I've already called the police". I said, ok, have a nice conversation with them. SNIP That's hilarious |
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louismacote Regular Member
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I live in Sault Sainte Marie, in Chippewa Country, in the UP. I have been open carrying various handguns in MI for a few months now, mostly because of this website. I do it to remind people, that this is still America, I am still an American man, I can still have a gun, and NO, I am not ashamed of any of the above. I had my first run in with our local city PD yesterday. Unlike our excellent sherriff dept (under Sheriff Moran it is very gun friendly), our local city PD is dominated by the bully and power hungry mentality. Frankly, most of them just need a real job. Nobody in this town respects them because of the drastic difference we all see between the city and county officer's attitudes. I was walking into the local Auto Zone for some primer. As I walked in, I saw in the glass reflection the patrol car slow down quickly on the road behind me, then pull in to the adjacent hotel. They "snuck" with their lights out behind the hotel, and positioned themself to wait for whatever extraordinary event was about to "go down!". (Small town cops often seem too eager for action, to me anyway). I meandered about inside for a few minutes hoping to avoid the needless confrontation, but to no avail. As soon as I exited the building, they were off to the races across the lot to diagonally park directly behind my car. (Hint to law enforcement: if someone habbitually parks facing a curb with direct access to a road, blocking off their rear, really has no point but to be rude). Of course, like a good little sheep, I just sat and waited patiently as the officer signalled for me to raise my hands. The conversation went something like this: Me: evening officer, how can I help you? LEO: Are you packing a piece? (no @#$%, he actually said those words). Me: yes sir, I am open carrying, but would you like to see my permit to conceal carry? (LEO leaves to talk to his buddy who is "covering me" with his arms folded behind my car). LEO: which side is your gun on? Me: my rear right, and my wallet is on my rear left. (LEO once again returns to "covering parter" who is clearly getting bored. LEO: slowly pull your wallet out with your left hand. Me: here ya go. You know, I am aware OC is legal in this state, but that it is not socially acceptable. As you can see, my CCW license is from north carolina where I was stationed in the Army. Many people OC there, where I picked up the practice. LEO: well we just don't see this stuff around here. (LEO takes my license, CPL, and military ID to car for the standard 20 minutes). LEO: well son, I don't really understand why you do this, but I just don't want to see you gettin' in anymore trouble. Me: Officer, I mind my own business around here, and haven't been in any trouble since I was a little kid. The Sault PD LEO then "released" me, and went on about his merry way. What was the point of the whole shabang? Beats me, I didn't do anything wrong. Now, you can point to no point in our conversation where either party was deliberately rude, but body language and tone say a lot. I can not express how frustrated I was with this LEO. His attitude was very hostile, and tone was very demeaning. Like he was talking to some child he just busted with pot, but was letting go with a warning. Why do we have to be afraid of our Public Servants? I do nothing wrong, mind my own business, and never hurt anyone. For that matter, I am a partly disabled veteran. Why is it that every time I see a city or state police officer, I get nervous when I do nothing wrong? Reminds me of the feeling in elementry school when you would see the big fat bully walking up behind you to take your lunch money. |
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louismacote Regular Member
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I live in Sault Sainte Marie, in Chippewa Country, in the UP. I have been open carrying various handguns in MI for a few months now, mostly because of this website. I do it to remind people, that this is still America, I am still an American man, I can still have a gun, and NO, I am not ashamed of any of the above. I had my first run in with our local city PD yesterday. Unlike our excellent sherriff dept (under Sheriff Moran it is very gun friendly), our local city PD is dominated by the bully and power hungry mentality. Frankly, most of them just need a real job. Nobody in this town respects them because of the drastic difference we all see between the city and county officer's attitudes. I was walking into the local Auto Zone for some primer. As I walked in, I saw in the glass reflection the patrol car slow down quickly on the road behind me, then pull in to the adjacent hotel. They "snuck" with their lights out behind the hotel, and positioned themself to wait for whatever extraordinary event was about to "go down!". (Small town cops often seem too eager for action, to me anyway). I meandered about inside for a few minutes hoping to avoid the needless confrontation, but to no avail. As soon as I exited the building, they were off to the races across the lot to diagonally park directly behind my car. (Hint to law enforcement: if someone habbitually parks facing a curb with direct access to a road, blocking off their rear, really has no point but to be rude). Of course, like a good little sheep, I just sat and waited patiently as the officer signalled for me to raise my hands. The conversation went something like this: Me: evening officer, how can I help you? LEO: Are you packing a piece? (no @#$%, he actually said those words). Me: yes sir, I am open carrying, but would you like to see my permit to conceal carry? (LEO leaves to talk to his buddy who is "covering me" with his arms folded behind my car). LEO: which side is your gun on? Me: my rear right, and my wallet is on my rear left. (LEO once again returns to "covering parter" who is clearly getting bored. LEO: slowly pull your wallet out with your left hand. Me: here ya go. You know, I am aware OC is legal in this state, but that it is not socially acceptable. As you can see, my CCW license is from north carolina where I was stationed in the Army. Many people OC there, where I picked up the practice. LEO: well we just don't see this stuff around here. (LEO takes my license, CPL, and military ID to car for the standard 20 minutes). LEO: well son, I don't really understand why you do this, but I just don't want to see you gettin' in anymore trouble. Me: Officer, I mind my own business around here, and haven't been in any trouble since I was a little kid. The Sault PD LEO then "released" me, and went on about his merry way. What was the point of the whole shabang? Beats me, I didn't do anything wrong. Now, you can point to no point in our conversation where either party was deliberately rude, but body language and tone say a lot. I can not express how frustrated I was with this LEO. His attitude was very hostile, and tone was very demeaning. Like he was talking to some child he just busted with pot, but was letting go with a warning. Why do we have to be afraid of our Public Servants? I do nothing wrong, mind my own business, and never hurt anyone. For that matter, I am a partly disabled veteran. Why is it that every time I see a city or state police officer, I get nervous when I do nothing wrong? Reminds me of the feeling in elementry school when you would see the big fat bully walking up behind you to take your lunch money. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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Pretty sad isn't it. |
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theboyzmom Regular Member
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Well, I am getting more and more guts to OC. Today I went to TSC in Clio to get some food for the fish and openly carried with my almost 2 year old by my side. I did get some looks, and one young girl said to his dad "Does she have a gun - how cool is that - do you think she would let me see it?" Dad said no but I would have been more than willing to tell her about why I carry. Other than that no problems. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: ...See, now you sir have patience. I don't think I could have gone through that without laughing at the person who thought that he could tell me what to do, and that I was required to follow his orders. Okay, maybe I could have managed to refrain from laughing, but that's debatable, and it would have been with great difficulty. Sorry. I've lost most of my tolerance for the arrogance of the ignorant. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Ghostrider: It's all about doing the unexpected. He was expecting an angry or surprised reaction. Do the opposite: walk by with indifference and be polite but continue on your way. To attempt to challenge someone and have them publicly IGNORE your challenge, will definately have a more negative impact on him, than any verbal argument could accomplish. I would rather embarass him than argue. |
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springerdave Regular Member
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July 1, oced in Fairview gas/ party store, good conversation w/ owner about bikes and "why are you wearing that" I replied because it's lawful to do so, told him how to find info on i-net (he is also a gun owner) BTW, during our conversation, an off duty state trooper came in to buy some things and left without making any comments. Good day. Road trip to UP oced in Munising BP no prob. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: Ghostrider: It's all about doing the unexpected. He was expecting an angry or surprised reaction. Do the opposite: walk by with indifference and be polite but continue on your way. To attempt to challenge someone and have them publicly IGNORE your challenge, will definately have a more negative impact on him, than any verbal argument could accomplish. I would rather embarass him than argue.Oh, I'd certainly have "continued on my way". I'd have also probably been polite. Maybe I just found it so funny by the way you recounted the tale. In further conference I'd probably have done something similar. I just couldn't help but laugh when I read your post. Must just be the flare of your narrative skills. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Narrative skills; that's a new one. Would you go back in time and explain that to my english teacher, maybe she will change that "D" on my final! |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: Narrative skills; that's a new one. Would you go back in time and explain that to my english teacher, maybe she will change that "D" on my final!LOL. Thought you might like that. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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I open carry everywhere I can. From at home to at work to the grocery store to the gas station to the local party store. I open carry while at my local homebrew store and while picking up parts for work. This Friday I plan on open carrying at the Westland Fireworks too. I wonder if I should wear my 229 in the thigh rig as it is a better retention holster then my OWB for my .38 J frame. I'll be around lots of people and retention is important you know. |
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Furner Regular Member
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My biggest problem when I OC is I dont like how my belt looks. I love how it feels and works, but it is a well-used tan Wilderness belt. I think it sticks out more than the gun does. I need to get a good leather gunbelt. I need a good leather belt period, but especially one suited for gun support. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Furner wrote: My biggest problem when I OC is I dont like how my belt looks. I love how it feels and works, but it is a well-used tan Wilderness belt. I think it sticks out more than the gun does. I need to get a good leather gunbelt. I need a good leather belt period, but especially one suited for gun support.You might check with Rylee's. They had a Don Hume belt that was dressy looking, yet offered good support. It may not be your size, but would give you an idea of what it's like. That is, if your looking to get something different than the Wilderness belt. |
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Furner Regular Member
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ghostrider wrote: Furner wrote:My biggest problem when I OC is I dont like how my belt looks. I love how it feels and works, but it is a well-used tan Wilderness belt. I think it sticks out more than the gun does. I need to get a good leather gunbelt. I need a good leather belt period, but especially one suited for gun support.You might check with Rylee's. They had a Don Hume belt that was dressy looking, yet offered good support. It may not be your size, but would give you an idea of what it's like. Ill have to check it out. I have been so busy lately I have not had time to go downstairs when I am there. I am a skinny guy though so sometimes I have a hard time finding stores with my size (32 or 34) in stock. But it is worth a try. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Furner wrote: ghostrider wrote:He only has one, and it difinitely isn't your size (40). I just thought it would give you a good idea of what they are like incase you want to get one.Furner wrote:My biggest problem when I OC is I dont like how my belt looks. I love how it feels and works, but it is a well-used tan Wilderness belt. I think it sticks out more than the gun does. I need to get a good leather gunbelt. I need a good leather belt period, but especially one suited for gun support.You might check with Rylee's. They had a Don Hume belt that was dressy looking, yet offered good support. It may not be your size, but would give you an idea of what it's like. |
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starshooter231 Regular Member
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OCed at Walmart in Big Rapids around 3am this morning zero problems. |
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DrTodd Regular Member 
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1) I OCed @ Walmart last Saturday (6/28) in Grandville 1-1.5hrs; no problems. 2) OCed in the Dollar store in Standale on LK Michigan Drive and at Shawmut Hills Sales and Service, a motorcycle dealer in GR also on LK Mich Dr. At the Dollar Store people noticed when I stood in line and one of two men talking to each other turned, looked, and turned to the other, nudged him w/ his arm and looked at my pistol, the other male then nodded. No problems. 3) OCed around downtown GR and stopped in many downtown stores, no problems. Most of these stores were within a block or two of the PD station. Result: No problems Last edited on Thu Jul 3rd, 2008 11:14 pm by DrTodd |
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boom357 Regular Member
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I called the Westland city attorney's office and posed the question of OC. The response was 'We'd lock your a## up if you tried to do that here'. My city is well known with the Wayne County's DA's office for being bass ackwards. So until useless Mike Cox gets out of bed with with one of his concubines, we really don't have a definitve ruling to practice our Constitutional right. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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Who said that to you? Was that a direct quote? What charge would they lock your ass up for? Are you going to the fireworks on sunday?  Last edited on Fri Jul 4th, 2008 06:32 am by dougwg |
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johnsteele Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: ... I paid for my tools and as I was walking out the door, man #2 with the phone says: "Don't run off, I've already called the police". ...That's hilarious. He's "ordering" a man with a firearm not to leave. I suppose he was too thick to see the irony in all of that. He is so concerned about your firearm that he calls the cops but he is clearly not so afraid that won't confront you. Hilarious. |
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DickTracy1953 Regular Member 
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I was wonder what the minimum requirements were for a holster to be a holster. My question is: I have a leather band the is about one and one half inches wide that secures a handgun on your belt. The sidearm therefor is almost completely exposed, inclusive of the muzzel. Is this a holster. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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DickTracy1953 wrote: I was wonder what the minimum requirements were for a holster to be a holster. My question is: I have a leather band the is about one and one half inches wide that secures a handgun on your belt. The sidearm therefor is almost completely exposed, inclusive of the muzzel. Is this a holster. You bet; I use primarily a Don Hume (same style as a Yauqu Slide) Sorry I can't post a pic of it (don't know how). I love this style of holster. Good retention, good looks, and lets virtually your whole gun be seen. On my Taurus it only covers the trigger housing and ejection port of the slide. |
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DrTodd Regular Member
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I oc'd at Grandville' 4th of July Parade and at the fireworks later in the evening. No problems at all. At the parade, standing on public property, I stood and spoke w/ a Grandville Police Officer for approximately 2 minutes. He did look at me and had to have noticed my pistol (It is a Glock 23 with with the 15 round clip extending approximately 1 inch beyond the butt of the grip.) He never questioned it and seemed friendly during the conversation. |
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theboyzmom Regular Member
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Ok - I am now a FIRM believer in OC. Today on the way up north for a baby shower, I stopped to get gas on Washington in Saginaw - right in front of St. Mary's. I went in paid for my gas, with my gun and without problems. When I came out and was pumping my gas, I was watching this guy wander around looking in cars ect. In all honesty, my radar was going off and I was pretty sure he was not looking for anything good. anyway, I had covered my gun with my shirt when I came out of the store - not on purpose but I had a loose untucked shirt on. When I started watching this guy I uncovered the gun and had my hand on it. Not really grasping it, but ready if need be. Soon enough this guy comes over and starts to approch me. As a woman alone, I am sure he figured me for a good target. He comes up to about 8 or so feet away and I say to him, can I help you? He looks me up and down (my gun in out of his sight on the far side of my body) and says he is looking for money and where is my purse. Well, I looked him in the eye and said that was not his concern. The next thing out of his mouth is, well i ain't got a gun or anything (which makes me thing he may have) and I look him square in the eye, turn a bit with my hand on the grip of my gun and say "well, I do and it is loaded" His eyes were HUGE! He said are you a cop or something and am I in trouble? I said I am not a cop, but come any closer and you may be in trouble. He turned and RAN away! How cool is that? Since it was just me and my almost two year old (who slept through the entire thing) I may not have faired as well if I was not carrying and willing to show the gun to him. I will now not have ANY problem with letting the world know I carry and that I AM prepared to use it. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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OUTSTANDING Way to go mom! I'm extremely glad you came out of it well. As I say; STAY INFORMED, STAY ARMED, AND STAY SAFE! |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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OC all day today left Battle creek mi went to Kendallville Ind. 90 + miles on motorcycle stopped and looked over a dozen or more semi tractors that are for sale in ind. Then Oc all the way back to Battle creek Mi. and the rest of the day around town no problems. |
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DickTracy1953 Regular Member
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What are the rules for transporting a sidearm when you are riding a motorcycle. Since you are in plain view can you open carry and would that be the same for a moped or bike. Is this what you are saying about open carrying all day. |
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DickTracy1953 Regular Member
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Oh, I forgot... what about being horseback. No.. I'm serious with this question. |
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Graydon Regular Member
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OC'd today in Target and Joanne fabrics in Flint and Home Depot in Fenton. Noone said a thing but I don't think too many saw it either. |
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Venator Regular Member
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DickTracy1953 wrote: Oh, I forgot... what about being horseback. No.. I'm serious with this question. On horse back you would be okay. It's not a vehicle. If you don't have a CPL there has been some concern about OC on a motorcycle. Some say it has to be unloaded and in a case. Others have said this only applies to long guns and pistols are exempt. So in regards to the motorcycle you may want to ask the State Police on their website. They get back to you fairly quick. Last edited on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 07:35 pm by Venator |
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Venator Regular Member
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The word is getting around. As I was OCing at a MacDonald's on vacation in Beulah, I noticed two guys looking at my Gun and whispering about open carry. So I had to but in and asked where they heard that OC was legal in Michigan? They said on some website and couldn't remember which one. I asked if they read the article in the Flint paper, they had not. The one guy said he carries, but hasn't OCed. I told him to check out this site and log on as a member. I don't know if he has. He may be a bit reluctant to OC as both guys were 30 something black males. Good to see the message getting out to all people that want to protect themselves, would love to have more people of color OCing. Also my brother was at a get together and heard some guys talking about open carry. The guy said he would love to get a permit to open carry. My brother steps up and tells him he doesn't need a permit, that if you can lawfully posses the gun you can carry openly. My brother also said to check out the website and that his brother (me) was very involved in this movement. Good to know my brother listens to me once in a while. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Venator: My MENTOR . Check out my OC experience I had at Harbor Freight! I just had to LMAO, as I was leaving. BTW; Welcome back, hope you had a great vacation! |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:21 am by Venator |
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LaVere Regular Member 
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Hello my name is Gordon, I'm a CCWer and its has been 4 hours since my last open carry. I have been wanting to break this bad habit of not open carrying for many years. . I not sure if I'm strong enough but I'm willing to try again. Each time I revert to CCw I regret the relapse. I promise I CAN do better with all of your help and the meetings.End poor attempt at humor. OC today Home Depot, local restaurant, and a Krogers I felt very uncomfrotable at the check out line at Krogers A man came and stood about 3 foot in back of me no cart between me and him. Either I need to get over the uncomfortable feeling or get a better holster with retention. I'll see what the tomorrow brings. Gordon Flint |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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LaVere wrote: Hello my name is Gordon, Get over the uncomfortable feeling only slightly, you still need to be aware of that sort of situation. DEFINITELY get some sort of retention holster. Some may disagree, but I will not OC without one anymore. |
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Venator Regular Member
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This is the letter I sent to the owners of the cafe I was asked to leave up in Benzie County. Dear Phoenix Café: I was in your café in late June, 2008 and was approached by the owner and was asked about my legally carried handgun. The owner stated that a customer was uneasy with me being there. The owner went on to say that he has to think about his customers. Well, until then, I thought of myself as a customer as I had been in his café on several occasions while lawfully carrying my handgun with no problems. The owner asked me to place the gun in my car, which would have put it in danger of being stolen, so I offered to cover my weapon, which I did. The owner then left but came back in a couple of minutes and said he talked it over with his partner and they decided they didn’t want guns in the café as it may be bad for business. I have these thoughts for you to ponder. While I was at your café, I was watching the customers that came into the store and I did not notice a signal instance where a potential customer saw my gun and turned and walk out of your café, thereby losing you business. I can state emphatically! that you did lose my business. Up until asked to leave, I had spent about $30.00 in 4 days. Our family has a summer home on Crystal Lake and I spend time there during the summer and fall. I stay at the Lake 3 weeks or more each year, which works out to about $150 lost by my boycott alone. I have been a customer of the café since it opened several years ago. This lose of income is just from myself, it do not take into account the potential revenue lose by my friends and family that feel as I do, nor does it take into account any revenue lose since your business was posted on some pro-gun websites as being gun unfriendly. It’s funny that I often carry openly in the Biggby’s coffee chain in the Lansing area and they don’t have a problem with it. You would think a Northern Michigan business would be a bit more gun friendly then the City of Lansing and it’s environs. I would think in times of economic difficulties you would embrace all potential customers, including those that believe in the right of self defense as well as those that do not. I hope that upon reflection you will reconsider your banning of the open carry of a handgun and allow those that wish to open carry to do so in your business. As news of the Supreme Court’s ruling that the right to bear arms is indeed an individual right spreads, more and more people in Michigan will choose to open carry a handgun in their day-to-day lives. Brian Jeffs, MS. CPG. Bath, MI Last edited on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 01:22 pm by Venator |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Venator wrote: This is the letter I sent to the owners of the cafe I was asked to leave up in Benzie County. I think the letter would have been much more effective had you written to explain that upon being instructed by your staff to remove, unnecessarily handle, and leave your loaded gun in a vehicle in a public place that you took your business elsewhere without paying for the food ordered as the conduct of the staff constitutued poor judgement and a violation of the implied contract created by holding your restaurant out as a public eatery. I urge everyone to never never comply with any private owner demands to handle your gun or leave in a parked vehicle - if you do this, you have REWARDED their conduct! As they say, money talks, and bul#$%^ walks! Also, NEVER urge anyone to post signs. Never. Like the movie said - If you suggest it, they will come. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Mike wrote: I think the letter would have been much more effective had you written to explain that upon being instructed by your staff to remove, unnecessarily handle, and leave your loaded gun in a vehicle in a public place that you took your business elsewhere without paying for the food ordered as the conduct of the staff constitutued poor judgement and a violation of the implied contract created by holding your restaurant out as a public eatery. I disagree, I think Brian's letter will suit the job just fine. Whether or not it is a public eatery, it is still private property, and they have the right to lose anybody's business they feel necessary. Only Brian can say for sure, but I don't believe he left because the staff (who was actually the owner) acted inappropriately. I believe he left because it became clear that they did not want his money and Brian, like me, does not want to give them his money. I don't see any implied contracts being violated. Like the movie said - If you suggest it, they will come. Which movie is that from?  |
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Venator Regular Member
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Mike wrote: Venator wrote:This is the letter I sent to the owners of the cafe I was asked to leave up in Benzie County. Thanks for the comments. I had already paid for my stuff, as I said I have been there several times while OCing, without a problem. After he told me he didn't want exposed guns in his cafe I explained to him that he lost me as a customer and that I would post his cafe on pro-guns sites, he said he didn't care, he did say would I like it if he allowed dogs in his cafe?, which I said I like dogs. It was going nowhere so I left. I thought I covered all the bases with the letter..economic...boycott....Human rights, etc. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:22 am by Venator |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Venator wrote: SQLtables wrote: I know... sorry.. bad attempt at sarcasm...just ignore me |
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defcon1 Regular Member
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First OC yesterday filling the gas tank at the Marathon station, then 2nd OC today at TSC in Paw Paw. Gotta say it does feel awkward, much more so than when I first started carrying concealed. I suppose it's because no one actually knows when you're CCing, but it's blatantly obvious when you're OCing. Obvious that I need a new holster. Any recommendations for a Springfield XD 5" that is stable and doesn't sit up high pushing the gun into the ribs? The one I've got now rides nice and low, but the spring clip lets it slide back and forth on the belt way too much. Looked at drop holsters at Blade Tech, but it appeared that they would also be moving around too much, and don't think I want something strapped to my leg. Appreciate your experienced thoughts on the matter. Thanks! |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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defcon1 wrote: First OC yesterday filling the gas tank at the Marathon station, then 2nd OC today at TSC in Paw Paw. I got the Blade-Tech w/SR loop, Level II, for my G21SF and it works quite well. It does slide a bit along the belt at times. I use a 1 3/4" nylon, Bianchi. I like the setting options available on the holster; cant, height & belt width. The only negative issue on the holster is the price-about $110 with s&h. ETA: Congrats on your first OC. Last edited on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 11:32 pm by SpringerXDacp |
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Kimberguy Regular Member 
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this is my first post on OC i posted this at Miguowners.org... was asked to coppy it here. my shirt is still wet...HAHA I just got home. About 20 minutes ago, i was standing in the pouring rain in hand cuffs, outside the Jackson Crossing Mall surrounded by four Jackson County Police officers. It was 6:00pm and i was at the mall clothed in under armor basket ball shorts, Sandals, and a Corporal of Marines t-shirt. I did have my belt and uncle Mikes holster with my Kimber Compact CDP II. I picked my Fieance up from work(who had been robbed while working at the same mall while i was i Iraq a few months ago) we went to Best Buy and then to the dollar store to get some trash bags to drop off where she works. As we left the dollar store i noticed that one of the customer service reps was standing there watching me. As we continued to walk another one stared me down as he walked by me hand on his radio. As we continued to walk another CS rep in a suit yells out at me "HEY GUY!" i don't answer to it, he then yells out "Corporal of Marines!" I stop turn around nod and ask him what he needs. Standing far too close for comfort, he says "I have no doubt that you are legal with that thing, but it is mall policy that we do not allow guns in the mall except for uniformed police officers." "I have not seen it posted anywhere, i was not aware of that." I replied "well that is mall policy. The police have been called and we need you to leave." I informed him "that is fine i will leave but you guy do need to post that at your entrances" he continued "You can stay but then you can explain that all to the police" So I sent my fieance to where she worked and i went out to get the car. well i barely got to the door when the LEO stopped me. drew his weapon got me out of the car and put me in cuffs. after he took my firearm to his car and my car was searched, i was un-cuffed, and waited in my car. he later came to my window let me know that i would be getting my weapon back but that i was in violation of my CPL. I let him know that this was not the case. and that Open carry was perfectly legal. he said he would have to check with his Sgt.(did i mention that this guy probably won't older than me about 23 or so. I kinda felt sorry for him having to deal with this) in the end thy put my pistol in the trunk and the Sgt and i talked a little, we both agreed that i was not in violation of anything, but he didn't understand why i would carry open, and he didn't care. My fieance is pissed not because i was put in cuffs, but because the customer service guys who called the police on me, where the same people she called when she was robbed and they never called the police. So this mall will not let you carry a gun to defend your self and they won't call the cops when someone is going from store to store robbing them. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: this is my first post on OC i posted this at Miguowners.org... was asked to coppy it here. my shirt is still wet...HAHA Welcome to OCDO Kimberguy. I read your post over at MGO earlier this evening and glad it turned out the way it did. Did the Sgt. or the reps tell you to never return to the mall or just with not the gun? |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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no, they just put my pistol in my trunk, and told me that i could take it out when i got home. When i drop my fieance of at work tomorrow, I do plan on talking with management about the situation, where they stand on carrying, and if hey do in deed apose it, i will be fery polite and courtious, but will be clear that i will shop elsewhere. I just can't understand disarming a law abiding citizen let alone a OIF Veteren. after doing nothing to help his fieance when she was robbed while on the clock working for them in January while i was over seas. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: no, they just put my pistol in my trunk, and told me that i could take it out when i got home. Kimber, copy and paste Venators OC info in a word doc and make copies to keep in your car and a copy on your person when carrying. You may want to take a copy with you when you speak to management. It's not likely they will be interested in seeing it, but, it wont hurt to ask. Link: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Kimberguy wrote: no, they just put my pistol in my trunk, and told me that i could take it out when i got home. Huh? You need to make a formal complaint against the officer for even conducting the non-consensual stop. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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Dang Kimberguy, that's the worst OC encounter yet with police I think. First time an arrest happened that I know of. I hope you consider a law suit, and I must say I am thouroughly unsurprised by the lack of a professional response. My brother and I were harassed and threatened some years ago in Jackson, we called them up, and were basically told to go screw ourselves.  |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Mike wrote: Kimberguy wrote:I agree. This is also why I tell people that they need to not only understand the law before OC'ing, but also thier rights. One cannot stress how important it is to get an LEO (in an incident such as this) to state his reasonable suspicion, or if you are free to leave.no, they just put my pistol in my trunk, and told me that i could take it out when i got home. Keep asking:
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Michigander Regular Member
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Whatever you do, file a freedom of information request and get the audio of the call to the police. That will help you decide who had any possible probable cause to do what, and what you should do from there. |
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67390FE Regular Member 
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Kimberguy, Is it correct to assume that this was Jackson City police and not Blackman Twp. or County Sheriff? I open carried at the Crossing just yesterday (the 9th!) I was at the Sears end and not a word was said. I remember happily thinking that it was finally feeling normal to open carry in Jackson. The only thing that comes close in their 'rules of conduct" is no explosive or incendiary devices. I always took that to mean fireworks. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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67390FE wrote: Kimberguy, Yes Jackson County. I find it amazing that i have yet to EVER see anyone OC... well outside of Iraq... lol. but honestly i would like to get to know and meet with people around the jackson are that i can just get to know an help eachother understand things a little better... and well honestly just have a shooting partner. |
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atlantis Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: no, they just put my pistol in my trunk, and told me that i could take it out when i got home. But they also told you that you were technically not doing anything illegal. So perhaps you should have said "Thank you for the suggestion that I keep it in my trunk. But since you agree that carrying it openly is not illegal, as soon as you tell me I'm free to go, I think I'll take it out of my trunk and put it back on my hip. Unless of course you can think of any legal reason why I should not do so. Can I go now? " |
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Venator Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: this is my first post on OC i posted this at Miguowners.org... was asked to coppy it here. my shirt is still wet...HAHA Let me know which department this was. Was it the County Sheriff? or more local. Once you let me know I will send and call department with info on the legality of open carry. I urge our members to do the same. Once I know which department it is I'll try and post at least an email address for you to send you polite concerns. This is the Jackson County Sheriffs email: command@co.jackson.mi.us Last edited on Fri Jul 11th, 2008 01:41 pm by Venator |
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Greggy_D Regular Member
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Kimberguy's ordeal illustrates why we all should carry personal voice recorders. Good ones can be had for around 50 bucks or so. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Greggy_D wrote: Kimberguy's ordeal illustrates why we all should carry personal voice recorders. Good ones can be had for around 50 bucks or so. Many recorder have a port to plug in a clip-on-mic, that keeps the recorder in your pocket with the mike near your mouth and can be somewhat hidden from view. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Venator wrote: I don't know if having several people call or write is necessarily the best course of action. Upon reading the Bryan Ledford story, the Ohioans for Cocealed Carry were able to accomplish progress because the representatives of the group urged everyone else to hold off on a letter writing campaign while they were in communication with the police department. The idea was that it would come accross as less confrontational and allow the PD to make good on the situation. It resulted in better training for the PD. Kind of like a "bees and honey" thing. I may be wrong, but why not give them a chance to take corrective action before calling out the dogs? This of course assumes that they haven't been given that chance yet. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Ok, i have spent the last four hours at the Jackson Crossing Mall(unarmed) and I have talked to a lot of people in charge. None of which wanted their names sighted anywhere. First, I went to the head of the entire mall sat down in her office and asked what the mall policies are. Needless to say they found out about two weeks ago that open carry is legal in Michigan and realized that shopping centers are not exempt from this right. So because of this new realization they are in the process of figuring out and printing signs that will not allow anyone to carry open, but still allow concealed carry on the premises. Their head of security(Ron Howard) is on vacation and will be contacting me on Monday when he returns. My intent is to try to see if possible that instead of banning our rights create some kind of program to educate people. We will see how things go next week. She was very glad that i cam to them in a professional manor and explained the situation that happened yesterday. She will be talking to the Customer Service reps about it and how to more properly handle the situation... like talking to me before calling the police and creating unnecessary inconveniences. Next I went to Sears. They were not 100% sure on store policies, and will be getting back with me as soon as they can. But their general consensus is that they follow state laws, and unless it becomes an issue they really don't care, (OC or CC) as long as you are within the law. Best Buy, I was very impressed just with his responses. He seamed very happy and pleased to assist me and answer my questions. They are a separate entity form the mall and to his knowledge were completely ok with OC and CC as long as you are legal. Now he also asked me to call 888-BEST-BUY to make sure he wasn't wrong. I just got off the phone with them and I was given an "absolutely no fire arms what so ever", Period. When i asked about nothing being posted she said she would look into it. I also asked her if she could give me a reference to where Best Buy stated that policy, and she said it was on bestbuy.com. I was unable to find it. Target. They are in the process of posting signs that LEO will be the only people permitted to carry firearms OC or CC in Target, whether this is chain wide or just Jackson County I do not know. Until then he said you can carry if you have proof that you are legal. Kohl's seamed like she thought she was going to lose her job for answering the question. She disappeared for about 10 minutes and was apparently talking to the mall, cause she said she thinks that they just follow their policies, stated what the mall already told me and then preceded to tell me that she wasn't totally sure and gave me a customer service number. 800-564-5740 that turned out being a number for their credit card, they were very helpful but had no idea. Being that they are in Wisconsin. TJ Max was the las place i went to and needless to say. He was very straight forward. "We follow whatever the state law is" and the he proceeded to lecture me on their no solicitation policy and that i ca not solicit information from him and took me outside to show me the extremely small sticker placed on the window at about hip level. I was not happy with him, but got the information i needed. So there you go... any questions feel free to ask. Hopefully I'll have some good news after I meet with Ron. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Is there a chance to put something to gether here in jackson to help educate people to OC? I would very much like to help oginize somethign here in my home town. |
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Greggy_D Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: TJ Max was the las place i went to and needless to say. He was very straight forward. "We follow whatever the state law is" and the he proceeded to lecture me on their no solicitation policy and that i ca not solicit information from him and took me outside to show me the extremely small sticker placed on the window at about hip level. LOL, I think Mr. Maxx needs a refresher on the definition of "No Solicitation". |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Greggy_D wrote: Kimberguy wrote:I looked it up and by definition i was "solisiting" I'm not too worried about it.TJ Max was the las place i went to and needless to say. He was very straight forward. "We follow whatever the state law is" and the he proceeded to lecture me on their no solicitation policy and that i ca not solicit information from him and took me outside to show me the extremely small sticker placed on the window at about hip level. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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I67390FE wrote: Kimberguy, I was able to find one of the LEO's information at the Mall today his name is Sgt. Rich Cook. He was the one who really could have cared less why i was and said i was splitting hairs when i gave them a copy of the "michigan penal code (excerpt) act 328 of 1931. I believe the younger one was Officer Eric Roth, but do not quote me because i am not 100% on that. Sgt Cook can be reached at (517) 768 8756 or rcook@cityofjackson.org. I am honestly not sure how to respectfully say anything or how to deal with this appropriatly... any help or advice would be wonderful. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: Ok, i have spent the last four hours at the Jackson Crossing Mall(unarmed) and I have talked to a lot of people in charge. None of which wanted their names sighted anywhere. This is my position on asking permmission. I think it's lose lose for us. All you get out of them is posting a no guns sign. It's better to go in as if you have the right to. My post on another thread. Let's look at the numbers. Look, most people are neutral on guns, many are plain anti-gun, a few are pro gun. We as pro-gun people can't even agree on OC vs CC for God's sake, how is a neutral person, say an owner or manager going to react if you ask..."Hey I"m bringing a gun into your store do you mind?" The odds, based on the above breakdown is that the manager will say no (for whatever reason..but I bet it will be because he doesn't want to take on the perceived responsibility by allowing you to carry the gun in his store). If they are anti-gun you are screwed. You might get lucky and find one of the few pro gun people as an owner/manager, but with the odds I showed, I wouldn't bet on it. So the odds are stacked against you by asking permission, little gain with a big potential lose. I feel it's much better to go about your shopping as if nothing is out of the ordinary. If nothing happens and no one complains, you show up again. If you are a regular customer and they get to know you by sight, they will realize you are not a threat and they may more favourably deal with a customer that is concerned. He may say "oh that guy, he's okay, he's in here a lot, don't worry." I have had this happen more then being asked to leave (with the one time so far). And, this doesn't take into account all the other reasons mentioned, like personal defense and freedom, etc... I still say it's better odds not to ask. Last edited on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 07:38 pm by Venator |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Venator wrote: I agree with Brian on this. People are free to do what they want, but it's not uncommon for people to just say No, when in doubt. |
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Venator Regular Member
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This is a serious matter guys. This is posted on the national page and info can be found on the Pennsylvania page. There have been FEDERAL civil rights violation lawsuits filed against police departments with success. the recent one below has circumstances similar to what the OP stated happened to him. I would consider contacting the attorney handling the Federal law suit in the case below, he has done a few now. PA open carry activists file suits against Dickson City police by Dave Workman, Senior Editor Gun Week July1, 2008 Five open carry activists in Pennsylvania have filed two separate federal civil rights lawsuits against Dickson City police Officers Anthony Mariano and Karen Gallagher, and Chief William Stadnitski in the aftermath of a May 9 incident in which the plaintiffs were confronted and]detained even though they had broken no laws. Gun Week first reported the incident in the June 15 edition. The first complaint, filed in US District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, alleges that Gallagher and Mariano "illegally threatened, harassed, detained and/or accosted" plaintiffs Richard and Judy Banks, Roger McCarren and Larry Meyer while they were dining at a restaurant Banks, McCarren and Meyer were all visibly armed, and were essentially minding their own business.The lawsuit asserts that the plaintiffs' rights were violated under the First, Fourth, Fifth and 14th Amendments. The other lawsuit, filed individually by Edward J. Kraft Jr. names Gallagher, Mariano and the Dickson City Borough, but not Chief Stadnitski. All four plaintiffs in the Banks lawsuit were with several other people, and according to filing papers, Banks, McCarren and Meyer "were ordered (by Mariano and Gallagher) to report to a different section of the restaurant for `investigation'." However, the lawsuit contends, there was no explanation of what was being investigated. Banks refused to provide identification, believing that the officers had no justification to ask for it, so he was then, according to the lawsuit, "illegally and unjustifiably handcuffed, frisked, and arrested, his personal property illegally confiscated and he was thereafter placed in the back seat of the Dickson City marked police car." Kraft's lawsuit details his encounter with Gallagher and supports the account of the incident contained in the Banks documents. In all, according to the two lawsuits, the officers had nine or 10 men in the group standing outside in the rain, coercing them to produce identification and concealed carry permits, the latter of which is not required in Pennsylvania if someone is carrying openly. Gun Week earlier spoke to Stadnitski, who said this was the first incident in his 37 years in law enforcement that involved private citizens openly carrying a firearm, other than while hunting. He also maintained that his officers erred on the side of caution when responding to a 911 call from a restaurant patron that complained about people "brandishing guns." "There was no ill will on our part," Stadnitski stated.That is not how the incident is portrayed in the lawsuit filed by attorney Robert J. McGee, who is representing the Banks plaintiffs. He believes the incident began because another patron in the restaurant was "unhappy and uncomfortable that someone had a firearm in a holster on their hip" and called the police. He does not know who placed the initial 911 call.Magee told Gun Week that the process could take some time, because the defendants have 30 days in which to respond, and then there will be motions, discovery, depositions and a conference, and all of that takes time. Likewise, the confrontation between Kraft and Gallagher, as portrayed in the lawsuit filed by attorney Johanna L. Gelb of Scranton, suggests that both Gallagher and Mariano acted "without cause or justification." In the Kraft lawsuit, it is alleged that "Mariano falsely informed the group...that they did, in fact, need a concealed weapons permit to openly carry a firearm in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania." The Banks lawsuit also complains that Gallagher and Mariano "refused to return...a handgun which Banks had in his possession at the time..." They also seized a handgun from McCarren and "refused to return it to him, on the basis that, according to some type of illegal registry maintained or available to the Dickson City Police Department, the handgun was not 'registered' to...McCarren." Banks was ultimately released after, according to the filing document, "Gallagher and Mariano realized they had no basis for placing (him) under arrest...but it was only after an extended period of time." Banks' lawsuit also describes a confrontation between the officers and Judy Banks, who tried to videotape and audiotape the encounter between the officers and the three other plaintiffs. The officers ordered Judy Banks to stop recording "under threat of being arrested for violation of the federal wiretap law," the document states. Meanwhile, Kraft alleges that "Gallagher and Mariano acted with a conscious and/or reckless disregard of the constitutional rights of Kraft to be free from unreasonable detentions, searches and seizures, and to be deprived of his property without due process of law." Kraft's lawsuit says both officers "illegally threatened, detained, searched and seized him, and otherwise interfered with his rights under the Second, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments..." The incident has infuriated open carry activists across the country, who have been following developments on OpenCarry.org, an Internet forum set up for the growing open carry community. This is not the first time an open carry confrontation between citizens and the police has resulted in a federal civil rights lawsuit. A few years ago, another such lawsuit was filed, according to Magee, who also represented the earlier client. That lawsuit was settled but the terms of that settlement were confidential, the attorney said. Richard Banks is the founder of Pennsylvania Open Carry, an offshoot of OpenCarry.org |
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steve Regular Member 
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a little off topic but i just wanted to say thanks for all the great info and all the help that myself and others get from all of you THANK YOU |
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Venator Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: I67390FE wrote:Kimberguy, Here is the break down, open carry is legal in Michigan. In public places (parks, building street, etc.) you are protected by the 1990 Preemption law (covers open carry as well as concealed with a CPL), because local municipalities can't have more restrictive firearm laws then the state. Private property can ban firearms and you would be trespassing if you did not leave when asked. I don't care what the opinion is of a Sergent in a local PD is, LEO's are notoriously wrong on this subject. OPEN CARRY IS LEGAL, PERIOD. I have sent the info packet to Sgt. Cook. Last edited on Mon Jul 14th, 2008 01:43 pm by Venator |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Venator wrote: Kimberguy wrote:Thanks, I appreciate it.I67390FE wrote:Kimberguy, |
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Venator Regular Member
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Here is a photo of some of the people at the OC get together in Grand Rapids John Ball Park. The text is taken from a post of one of the organizers, it's on the GR post. "We didnt have any media. No police at all either. Not even a regular drive-by. I didnt talk to them, but some of the others talked to a few guys, maybe the rest of their family, who were picnicing next to us. We had a total of 11 people come to the picnic! We had plenty of great food, talked some gun laws, enjoyed the weather." Attached Image (viewed 74 times): |
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Bronson Regular Member
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Hi everyone, New guy here, my name's Bronson. I haven't OC'd yet but I'm gathering info (need to know the law). I also have an email into the police chief of Battle Creek asking if his officers are informed on the state's position. Thanks for all the great info. Bronson |
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springerdave Regular Member
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Then Came Bronson. Welcome to OCDO! |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Welcome Bronson to OCDO. We have member(s) here from the BC area who OC. |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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Yes they are aware of the law. As is the Sheriff's office. The DA is also aware of Michigan open carry . |
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hidehunter Regular Member
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Hi everyone, This is my is post. I OC'ed today while riding around a bit in my Jeep with the top off. I OC'ed once before, but felt it was important to do so with a good security holster. I Got a Serpa. I like the way it retains my Glock. Anyway, I drove to Linden Rd. from Flushing City and stopped at the Burger King at Linden and Corunna Rd. I've stopped there many times in the past while carrying concealed. I was third in line and when I got to the cashier I'm sure everyone behind the counter knew I was carrying. And everyone else in line. The young lady took my order and got it all messed up. I think she might have been a little rattled. The Manager handed me my order and said, enjoy your meal. I found a seat and watched TV while I ate. I couldn't help noticing an older lady taking glances at my firearm with disapproving expressions on her face. A few minutes later though she was laughing with her husband and seemed to forget I was there. When I left I stood and waited between my Jeep and an older couples car while the husband helped his wife transition from a walker to the passengers seat. He looked my way and I smiled. When he shut the door he asked me if the Jeep was mine. I told him it was. He asked me a couple questions and we both laughed at one of his responses. I half expected the Flint TWP Police or State Troopers to come wheeling into the parking lot. It was a new experience for me, as well as the other people in that BK. hidehunter Last edited on Tue Jul 15th, 2008 07:15 am by hidehunter |
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DickTracy1953 Regular Member
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It is a small world. I grew up in the village of Flushing then left after graduation in 1972. As kids we often roamed freely about with our rifles along the river banks or over the open undeveloped lands and onto neighboring farms. Flushing has always been a gun friendly town. I remember taking my Hunter's Safety Course above the Main Hardware where there was an indoor firing range. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: I67390FE wrote:Kimberguy, Apperently I some how messed this up and it wan't Sgt Cook... I'll will be finding out who exsactly it was that responded to the call |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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I haven't posted for a while. Since I OC everywhere without event most of the time. I figured I would just post every couple of weeks or so. In the last 2wks, nothing but good experiences. Bought a new truck ('97 S-10, new to me). Talked to the dealer, who has a cpl and of course was told "must be concealed". Made his day with the info packet! He goes to the car auction in Flint 3 times a week and always carries. I also had new neighbors move in and as soon as they seen me the first time with my Taurus hanging out, it took about 10 seconds for the younger male to come over and find out if they had a cop living next door! Told him the situation, gave him an info packet and expect to have many more talks with him. He's only 18 and I told him to make sure to understand what He should expect. Gave out other packets at the hardware store, dollar store, and wally world parking lot. Word is definately getting out. These are the most inquiries I've had since I started carrying. I was only carrying 1 or 2 info packets in my truck. Now I've increased it to 6 and hope to pass them all out to curious individuals. STAY INFORMED, STAY ARMED, AND STAY SAFE |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: I haven't posted for a while. Since I OC everywhere without event most of the time. I figured I would just post every couple of weeks or so. In the last 2wks, nothing but good experiences. Bought a new truck ('97 S-10, new to me). Talked to the dealer, who has a cpl and of course was told "must be concealed". Made his day with the info packet! He goes to the car auction in Flint 3 times a week and always carries. I also had new neighbors move in and as soon as they seen me the first time with my Taurus hanging out, it took about 10 seconds for the younger male to come over and find out if they had a cop living next door! Told him the situation, gave him an info packet and expect to have many more talks with him. He's only 18 and I told him to make sure to understand what He should expect. Gave out other packets at the hardware store, dollar store, and wally world parking lot.Where are these info packets and where can i get some? |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: WARCHILD wrote:Print them out yourself.I haven't posted for a while. Since I OC everywhere without event most of the time. I figured I would just post every couple of weeks or so. In the last 2wks, nothing but good experiences. Bought a new truck ('97 S-10, new to me). Talked to the dealer, who has a cpl and of course was told "must be concealed". Made his day with the info packet! He goes to the car auction in Flint 3 times a week and always carries. I also had new neighbors move in and as soon as they seen me the first time with my Taurus hanging out, it took about 10 seconds for the younger male to come over and find out if they had a cop living next door! Told him the situation, gave him an info packet and expect to have many more talks with him. He's only 18 and I told him to make sure to understand what He should expect. Gave out other packets at the hardware store, dollar store, and wally world parking lot.Where are these info packets and where can i get some? http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html |
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nikon1123 Regular Member 
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If anyone has the open carry packet in a .doc or .pdf, I have some server space and would be happy to host it, so that people can download and print without having to go through the whole thing reformatting it. Just email it to me and I'll post the link. Edit: spelling Last edited on Sat Jul 19th, 2008 05:08 pm by nikon1123 |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:25 am by Venator |
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Venator Regular Member
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Dup. Last edited on Sun Jul 20th, 2008 05:03 pm by Venator |
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Venator Regular Member
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I'm having coffee sitting in Biggby's and on-line. In walks an East Lansing officer in uniform, but in an unmarked car. Walks by me and orders coffee and leaves. Don't know if the staff called or the one other person in here called or if it was just a coincident. Not sure if he noticed me or not. He just walked on by and drove away. Time will tell if they come back. Perhaps ELPD has got it right. Last edited on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 07:39 pm by Venator |
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nikon1123 Regular Member
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Just OC'd for the second time in Ypsilanti. Went to the corner store to get some cigarettes. The young, pretty, female clerk, who was the only person there definitely saw my gun and didn't even seem to care. I think I'm in love! |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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With her or your gun? |
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nikon1123 Regular Member
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Little bit of both... |
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Greggy_D Regular Member
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Venator wrote: Not sure if he noticed me or not. Sounds like he didn't see your sidearm. |
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Greggy_D Regular Member
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nikon1123 wrote: Just OC'd for the second time in Ypsilanti. Went to the corner store to get some cigarettes. The young, pretty, female clerk, who was the only person there definitely saw my gun and didn't even seem to care. I think I'm in love! Which corner store? I need to get out. |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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oced today at petsmart hat a german sheperd come up and sniff my gun.i tried to give him a information booklet and he was not interested in it.went to wallmart on court street no problems walked aroun for about an hour |
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nikon1123 Regular Member
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I think the Ypsilanti PD are doing what we've always wanted, asking questions. OC'd around Cross St. a bit, and overheard a phone conversation: "There's a guy with a gun on Cross ... No ... No ... Not really ... Really? ... Okay, thanks." Didn't see a single police car on the way back, I think they told the person who called that it's legal! |
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dougwg Regular Member
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Now THAT is significant. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:27 am by Venator |
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Venator Regular Member
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Some cities our members have OCed in. This is posted on a seperate thread as well as the NEW? Info thread, but many more people seems to hit this tread so I put it here as well. Allen Park Alpena Battle Creek Bath Bay City Beulah Big Rapids Burton Chesaning Clio Corrunna Dearborn Dearborn Heights Detroit East Lansing Fenton Flint Flushing Fowlerville Frankenmuth Garden City Grand Blanc Grand Rapids Grandville Haslett Howell Kalamazoo Lake City Lansing Leslie Livonia Midland Mt. Morris New Lothrop Okemos Owosso Paw Paw Redford Romulus Saint Charles Sault Sainte Marie Saginaw Standale Traverse City Westland |
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DanM Regular Member 
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ruger45 wrote: oced today at petsmart hat a german sheperd come up and sniff my gun.i tried to give him a information booklet and he was not interested in it.went to wallmart on court street no problems walked aroun for about an hour Yah, dogs don't seem to be interested in reading material and I've never seen a dog take it when offered. They act like they're illiterate or can't understand a word you're saying! What's up with that? |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member 
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Got into a conversation about guns with someone yesterday. Heres how it went: Him: Whats that? Me: Thats a gun. Him: Whats it for? Me: Protection. Him: Why? Me: Because when bad guys try to hurt me, I need to be able to defend myself. Him: Why? Me: Because I dont want to get hurt. Him: Why? If you didnt notice, the question why was stated many times in the conversation. Which I answered to the best of my ability. But when its your son asking the questions,(my 4 year old is in the "Why" phase right now) it sometimes gets difficult to answer! Last edited on Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 07:56 pm by Tucker6900 |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Tucker6900 wrote:Got into a conversation about guns with someone yesterday. Heres how it went: luckily, our 4 year old has outgrown that phase. Now she's in the "how come?" Phase...I had a similar discussion about my knife the other day... |
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DanM Regular Member
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Tucker6900 wrote: Got into a conversation about guns with someone yesterday. Heres how it went: I thought this was a conversation with an anti-gun nut, with their persistent "why" in the face of plain logical statements about carrying a gun. Funny how the difference from a 4-year-old's mindset isn't very distinguishable. |
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PA-Carry Regular Member 
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Venator wrote: Some cities our members have OCed in. This is posted on a seperate thread as well as the NEW? Info thread, but many more people seems to hit this tread so I put it here as well.Planning on being in Tawas City at the end of the month, so hope to add Tawas City to the list! |
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Bronson Regular Member
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DanM wrote: I thought this was a conversation with an anti-gun nut, with their persistent "why" in the face of plain logical statements about carrying a gun. Funny how the difference from a 4-year-old's mindset isn't very distinguishable. I was thinking the same thing Bronson |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member
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DanM wrote: Tucker6900 wrote:Got into a conversation about guns with someone yesterday. Heres how it went: Thats what I said to my wife. "Ill just talk with Owen to prepare myself for the people who dont like guns!" |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member
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I was on my way home from a friends house last night, and I stopped at the gas station downtown to get something to drink. (And no, it wasn't beer) When I pulled up, the officer was just accross the street in a parking space at the courthouse talking to somebody. As I got out of the car, I saw him "nod" in my direction, so I waved back. Went into the store, purchased my drink, (not sure if the clerk noticed or not), and walked out the door. From the time walked into the store, and back out again, the officer had parked next to my car, drivers door to drivers door. (Ill admit, I was a little nervous, first officer encounter and all) As I rounded the car, the officer, still sitting in his car, asked if I had a permit for the pistol. As nervous as I was, Im proud to say that I recited to the letter what I have learned from OCDO, "State law does not require me to have a license to carry, am I being detained?" And much to my relief, the officer says, "No, I just like to know that the people who open carry in this state know their rights." Needless to say, I was relieved that it didnt go farther than that. We had a nice chat, until my wife called demanding to know where I was, (I called her when I left the friends house to let her know I was on my way, and an hour had passed, when I live only 20 minutes from my friends house.) Kudos to Stockbridge PD. The officer said he was employed by Washtenaw Co as a deputy there and shared Stockbridge with a couple other officers. It was nice to have that experience for the first time encounter. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Tucker6900 wrote: SNIP the officer says, "No, I just like to know that the people who open carry in this state know their rights." Then why did he ask if you had a permit when you were lawfully carrying, in plain view, a holstered pistol. But anyway, congrats on the non-event. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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SpringerXDacp wrote: Tucker6900 wrote:SNIPthe officer says, "No, I just like to know that the people who open carry in this state know their rights." Folks - the police ARE allowed to consensually talk to open carriers - and ask questions - based upon your response, the police are trained and have experience to detect of there might be somthing worth investigatin'. Keep it friendly out there! And remember, a calm and affable confident man or woman is rarely challeneged by others in life generally, including by law enforcement officers. The only time I was every asked for my permit was after testifying concealed at a Fairfax County Board meeting on gun stuff - the officer who usually guards them, a nice young balding guy who sits in the back, came up to several us afterward and asked if we had concealaed permits - I said yes, my friend saif no and opened his coat to show he was not carrying - a nice friendly encounter - not a big deal, and the officer never even asked me to show the permit! he said - "OK, that's cool," and walked away. I'm not saying bend over and give in to ID demands without cause, agree to searches, - but havin a short consensual conversation with officer friendly ought to be OK I think and strategically productive. In fact, I suggest you consider suing if the encounter is abusineve and non-consensual. |
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starshooter231 Regular Member
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Tucker6900 wrote: As I rounded the car, the officer, still sitting in his car, asked if I had a permit for the pistol. As nervous as I was, Im proud to say that I recited to the letter what I have learned from OCDO, "State law does not require me to have a license to carry, am I being detained?" And much to my relief, the officer says, "No, I just like to know that the people who open carry in this state know their rights." So Tucker do you have a CPL? I only ask because if you don't the moment you enter your car with your firearm it becomes concealed. |
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starshooter231 Regular Member
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OCed at the gas station in Rodney on Tuesday. Pumped gas for 10minutes, other customer pumping gas looked but didn't seem to notice. So I guess it shall be classified as uneventfull. |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member
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starshooter231 wrote: Tucker6900 wrote:As I rounded the car, the officer, still sitting in his car, asked if I had a permit for the pistol. As nervous as I was, Im proud to say that I recited to the letter what I have learned from OCDO, "State law does not require me to have a license to carry, am I being detained?"And much to my relief, the officer says, "No, I just like to know that the people who open carry in this state know their rights." Yep! I am one of the people who got their CPL before knowing OC was legal in Michigan. And to clarify, the officers "no" response was to the "Am I being detained" question. Last edited on Thu Jul 24th, 2008 03:12 pm by Tucker6900 |
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DanM Regular Member
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Mike wrote: Folks - the police ARE allowed to consensually talk to open carriers - and ask questions - based upon your response, the police are trained and have experience to detect of there might be somthing worth investigatin'. Mike's right. Politely stick to the script, when approached by an officer: "open carry is legal . . . am I being detained?" . . . etc. Most LEOs are on the side of regular, law-abidin' citizens and they're just following their department procedures, or else they'll be fired. If you feel oppressed by a LEO, it's usually not him or her, but their department's protocol or procedures. Address that with the HMIC* responsible for policies or procedures, which is usually the Sheriff or PD Chief. *HMIC: for those who don't recognize this politically incorrect acronym, it's another expression for "where the buck stops". |
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nikon1123 Regular Member
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Okay folks, the open carry info pamphlets and letter to law enforcement officers are available in a Word (.doc) document, so as to avoid reformatting. they are available at the following locations. Info pamphlet: http://people.emich.edu/nburden/info.doc Letter to LEOs: http://people.emich.edu/nburden/LEOs.doc Thanks Venator! |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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nikon1123 wrote: Okay folks, the open carry info pamphlets and letter to law enforcement officers are available in a Word (.doc) document, so as to avoid reformatting. they are available at the following locations. And, thank you Nikon. |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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mastiff69 wrote: O/C at save-o-lot food store in Battle Creek Mi for 30-45 minutes no problems. Care to have a get together in BC? Myself I live in Marshall, and am looking for someone else to help pop my OC cherry. Not really sure about just wandering around in the mall or something yet, but I might hit up Wal-Mart or Meijers or just Leila for the time being. *S* |
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dougwg Regular Member
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Open Carried in Hastings, MI with about 50 others. I wore my thigh rig with my Sig229 .40s&w and my 4 mag pouch (thats 61 rounds of bad guy repellent) because it's much more secure in case of the rouge gun grabber. Had a diet coke in Richie's Koffee and some great onion rings, walked the street for a bit, listened to a great speech in front of the court house by the water fountain and then back to Richie's for a patty melt and another diet. Lots of great supportive people. 50 gunman and gunwomen wondering around downtown Hastings and not one cop in sight. What is this country coming to. Last edited on Fri Jul 25th, 2008 06:10 pm by dougwg |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: 67390FE wrote:Kimberguy, If you'd like, we can go hit up the town together. *S* Last edited on Fri Jul 25th, 2008 07:06 pm by azebolsky |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:28 am by Venator |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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So anyway, OCed last night to Family Video - nobody paid attention, McDonalds - nobody paid attention, Family Fare - noone noticed(but then I did opt for the self-checkout as I didn't want to stand around for the 2 moms doing grocery shopping at 2100). *S* |
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theboyzmom Regular Member
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I open carried at the Car Show in New Lothrop. Stopped and had a chat with the local LEO without a word being said. Lots of the car owners looked at the gun but no comments. |
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Venator Regular Member
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OCed this last week, Biggby's Lake Lansing Rd., Radio Shack, Staples, Flap Jack Shack all near Frandor Mall Lansing. Office Max and Best Buy in Okemos. Richies Coffee shop diner-Hastings. All without a problem. OCed the week before last at Clem's comic book store, Peanut Shop, one of the four Biggbys all in Downtown Lansing, No problems. |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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OCed today at NAPA Auto Parts, Applebee's, Citgo gas station. No problems at all. Also delivered the LEO letter from the Info thread to the Marshall PD Office. *S* Edit: Also add McDonald's in Albion, and Citgo station downtown Albion. Last edited on Mon Jul 28th, 2008 05:41 am by azebolsky |
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Generaldet Regular Member 
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Hello everyone, I read about the gathering in hastings and thought it was a great! I'm a new member here and I want to help support the rights we have in this great county of ours. I have never OC'D before but I have been educating myself on the subject, and all of your information has been very helpful. I want to try soon, and would like to attend the outing in Warren in August. I am from the Lake Orion/ Oxford area and was wondering if there are any members in the area or if anyone has OC'd here and what there experience was. I must admit I am nervous (being my first tme and all). Also, I'm curious to know how some of you overcame this intial fear. Thanks everyone! |
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MMC Regular Member
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hello, I am new here today. lots of great information. I was wondering if anyone has had any dealings with the Livonia Police dept. any info would be greatly appreciated thanks |
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Venator Regular Member
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MMC wrote: hello, I am new here today. lots of great information. I was wondering if anyone has had any dealings with the Livonia Police dept. any info would be greatly appreciated Livonia is one of the cities we have members that OC in. What dealings with the police are you referring to? If you read the info page you know that local ordinances are illegal in regards to firearm possession. There isn't anything they can legally arrest or detain you for. What is your concern? Perhaps we can help. |
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MMC Regular Member
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I currently cc but am very interested in oc'ing. I was just wondering if the Livonia Police dept was Aware of the law and how they were handling it . I have read the info page but was just wondering if anyone has has any contact with the Cheif or any of the road officers. Thank you very much for the info. |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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MMC and GeneralDet, As far as OC goes, I'm still nervous and I've been CC-ing for a year now. Most, if not all of the police departments are UNaware of it until it becomes painfully obvious(and usually at expense of someone's time on the side of the sidewalk or in a police car). That being said, I delivered the LEO packet (found here - http://people.emich.edu/nburden/LEOs.doc )to my local LE office, and that was the end of my contact with the police concerning the issue. "Easier to ask forgiveness than permission" seems to be the order of the day as far as this goes.Also, MMC, please add your locale in your profile. Select "Country", then it will give you the option of city/state. It'll help keep track of who carries where in the state, and let people know they're not alone in their areas. Welcome aboard mate, and happy carrying! *S* Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 03:40 am by azebolsky |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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azebolsky wrote: MMC and GeneralDet,Link did not work. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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http://people.emich.edu/nburden/LEOs.doc FIXED Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 02:18 am by dougwg |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member 
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still not working |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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try this... the previous links both have a ) at the end of them http://people.emich.edu/nburden/LEOs.doc Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 01:39 am by SQLtables |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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Tonight, like just 10 minutes ago, my wife & I were out taking our nightly walk. We were on Grand Traverse in Burton. There was a Burton cop sitting at the corner on one of the side streets doing paperwork or something. He looked up at us, then took a double take, got out of his car, stood there behind his door with his hand on his gun........ cop: what's going on, buddy? me: nothing, we're out walking cop: what's the deal with that (motioning his head towards my gun) me: it's not illegal to open carry in Michigan cop: yea, I know that. What, are you part of that group that was out at Kelly Lake? me: yea cop: Did you go to that picnic over there? me: no, I missed it cop: we're not use to seeing people like you wandering around with a gun. You're not in the South. wife: we're out here walking nearly every night. we live just over on ________ St. cop: on ___________ St, eh? what's your name? me: John _________. cop: John _________? On _________ St? ok. and the wife & I continued on with our walk. Oh, guess who's driving down my street real slow? Gotta go exercise my rights! do you think I should go talk to the police chief about the cop driving down my street real slow? Isn't that a form of harrassment? Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 02:36 am by ruger45 |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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ruger45 wrote: Tonight, like just 10 minutes ago, my wife & I were out taking our nightly walk. We were on Grand Traverse in Burton. There was a Burton cop sitting at the corner on one of the side streets doing paperwork or something. He looked up at us, then took a double take, got out of his car, stood there behind his door with his hand on his gun........Rock on! Good for you. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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No way in hell would I complain if some cop was going up and down my street..... even real slow. "Safest Street in Burton" Wish they would do that here P.S. Good job. Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 03:01 am by dougwg |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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SQLtables wrote: try this... the previous links both have a ) at the end of them Thanks SQL, I fixed the link in my post too. Still learning a new board. Anyway, went into Rite-Aid and was told that my firearm was not allowed on the premises. I nicely told them that was ok, but that I would be taking my protection, and my business to another store.*S* |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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azebolsky wrote: SQLtables wrote:Exactly, i couldn't agree more. Good for you.try this... the previous links both have a ) at the end of them Not sure if it is this site or another but i have seen a thread containing a list of anti stores. IF it still exists add the name and location of that particular store. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: azebolsky wrote:I am pretty sure that would be http://www.migunowners.orgSQLtables wrote:Exactly, i couldn't agree more. Good for you.try this... the previous links both have a ) at the end of them |
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dougwg Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: warlockmatized wrote:azebolsky wrote:I am pretty sure that would be http://www.migunowners.orgSQLtables wrote:Exactly, i couldn't agree more. Good for you.try this... the previous links both have a ) at the end of them http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_no_gun_signs.asp |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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dougwg wrote:http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_no_gun_signs.aspUse his it is way better! quite nice. |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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thanks, will be saving this link for reference. *S* |
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LaVere Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: ruger45 wrote:Tonight, like just 10 minutes ago, my wife & I were out taking our nightly walk. We were on Grand Traverse in Burton. There was a Burton cop sitting at the corner on one of the side streets doing paperwork or something. He looked up at us, then took a double take, got out of his car, stood there behind his door with his hand on his gun........Rock on! Good for you. See red highlight above. People like you? What does that mean? Are you black, Hispanic, are you gay. Why did he single you out? And make that disparaging remark. That offends me and should offend ever gun owner. "Your are not in the south" another disparaging remark. What is different in the south. Do southerners all open carry? " I have never seen one yet. Are you a slow speaking, dumb, over weight red neck ( stereo typing speech ). This Police officer needs social sensitivity retraining and should be reported. If you were black he would not use the "N" word" but he can use the "G" (gun) or the "S" (southern). Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 04:08 pm by LaVere |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member 
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1:Beaners(I will never call it Bigbys) in Okemos on Marsh Road-No issues 2: Big John Steak and Onion-No Issues 3: Dick's Sporting Goods at the Eastwood town center(Lansing) which is posted at the front door so I covered it up. 4: Office Max in Lansing on Edgewood BLVD-No issues 5: Target in Lansing on Edgewood BLVD-No Issues 6: Lou and Harry's near Frandor in Lansing-No issues 7: Meijers Gas Station on MLK JR Blvd in Lansing-No issues Last edited on Wed Jul 30th, 2008 08:07 pm by Krmnnghia |
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deepdiver Activist Member 
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LaVere wrote: warlockmatized wrote:+1 WTH? "I'm not use to people like you questioning people like me as to when, where and how I choose to exercise one of my constitutionally protected rights. Do you walk up to people talking politics and tell them that you aren't use to seeing people like you wander around voicing an opinion? Or do you go down to the newspaper office and tell the editor that you aren't use to seeing people like him walking around printing whatever he wants to print?" - yeah, I wouldn't have said it but I would have been thinking it.ruger45 wrote:snipRock on! Good for you. |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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can they stop you just for o.cing?i thouhgt i read some where they are not supposed to any help would be great.also i am a white person also ismy wife.i was dressed nice as if we might of been going out.another thing he asked was if i had a ccw.i told him no.i think if i did he would of told me to cover it up. Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 03:55 pm by ruger45 |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member
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ruger45 wrote: can they stop you just for o.cing?i thouhgt i read some where they are not supposed to any help would be great As far as Ive gathered, yeah, they can, but can not legally detain you just for Open Carry. I am a white person What does that matter? Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 05:42 pm by Tucker6900 |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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my point the cop said people like you.i just like to know what kind of people i am refered to. |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member
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Ahh. Got it. You never know. Statistics probably show that "people like you", being well dressed middle aged white male, are usually not the people commiting crimes. Now in regards to him questioning you about who you were and where you lived, if Im not mistaken, you were not required to give any of that information to him. (Although I could be wrong, if so, someone please correct me) |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Tucker6900 wrote: ruger45 wrote:can they stop you just for o.cing?i thouhgt i read some where they are not supposed to any help would be great Can they stop you? Well, he did didn't he? IMO, they have no more right stopping you for OC than they do for wearing a red shirt with ducks on it. Also, it sounds like the OP offered the street he lived on. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. It's great to look cooperative, plus, like doug said.. safest street around. Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 08:09 pm by SQLtables |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Tucker6900 wrote: ruger45 wrote:Stopping someone IS detaining them. The characteristic for detain is that you are no longer free to go, which is what happens when they stop you. They may conduct a voluntary investigation, but the key word there is "voluntary", as in, "You volunteered to stay and talk". To stop/detain you, he must have Reasonable Suspicion, and OC in and of itself is not RS.can they stop you just for o.cing?i thouhgt i read some where they are not supposed to any help would be great This officer obviously knows what's going on. He knows about our group, he knew about the picnic, and he knows that OC is legal and that we are peaceful and lawful. As such, he doesn't need to be educated. My guess is that he was just trying to intimidate you. Now, he has your name and address. I hope it stays that simple. |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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well i just got back from visiting with the burton police cheif.he said maybe i was looking into this situation to much.he said both yours and the police officers blood where probably high.he said he sees nothing wrong whith what happen.he has also told his officers not to mess with any of the people of the open carry web thing.then why did i get stopped???hmmm.he said every since kelly lake picnic he has had a lot of conserned people worried about us running around with guns on their hips.he said think about it guns and criminals go to gether and when people see you whith a gun they think you are a criminal.he said he does not agree whith what i am doing but also will not mess with me about it.he said you got to go home with not being investigated witch they have the right to do.he made it clear he doess not like this web cite and also told me he had to threaten to sue someone who runs this cite for calling him names. |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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ghostrider wrote: Tucker6900 wrote:ruger45 wrote:Stopping someone IS detaining them. The characteristic for detain is that you are no longer free to go, which is what happens when they stop you. They may conduct a voluntary investigation, but the key word there is "voluntary", as in, "You volunteered to stay and talk". To stop/detain you, he must have Reasonable Suspicion, and OC in and of itself is not RS.can they stop you just for o.cing?i thouhgt i read some where they are not supposed to any help would be great what do you mean you hope it stays that simple? |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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he made it clear he doess not like this web cite and also told me he had to threaten to sue someone who runs this cite for calling him names. Now that's a first. I don't know of anyone on this forum who was threatened with a lawsuit for slander. Besides, "Slander" is only a chargeable offense if it is a known un-truth and made public to do harm to the person. As long as you state it as your opinion or "I think", there is no slander intended. I have run into this (many years ago), but as far as I know the laws in that respect have not changed. Given the chiefs attitude, I think he's a ***hole who doesn't like change or anyone challenging his INTIMIDATION AUTHORITY. If he doesn't like this web site, don't read it! I really didn't figure you would get any help from this guy, like I told you today, the only opinions I have had about this guy is he's a PR!*K. PERIOD! 'NUFF SAID |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: he made it clear he doess not like this web cite and also told me he had to threaten to sue someone who runs this cite for calling him names. OK, that's it you Open Carry Site/Kelly Park/Gun Nut...I mean Mr. Warchild. You have the right to remain silent and anything you say can and will.... |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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ruger45 wrote: What I mean is I hope you don't hear any more from that officer about it. |
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DickTracy1953 Regular Member
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Those people... every time I here someone utter that phrase I know that I am about to discover that the good old planet Earth has yet one more person ready, willing, and able to disregard the merit of any given individual. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Krmnnghia wrote: Open carried this morning at Beaners(I will never call it Bigbys) in Okemos on Marsh Road. A few stares from others getting their morning caffeine but no one said a thing. I've been carrying in that Beaners for about 9 months. I have talked the the owner while OCing and he never said anything about my gun. Seems like a good guy. Maybe that's why Beaners is expanding while Starbucks are closing stores nation-wide. |
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Venator Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: he made it clear he doess not like this web cite and also told me he had to threaten to sue someone who runs this cite for calling him names. It was me. But I don't run the website. |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member
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Venator wrote:I've been carrying in that Beaners for about 9 months. I have talked the the owner while OCing and he never said anything about my gun. Seems like a good guy. Maybe that's why Beaners is expanding while Starbucks are closing stores nation-wide. I OC'd at the Mason Beaners this morning with no issues. I really hope that this coffee company is able to hold on to its roots and not go global like Starbucks. IMO it ruined them. Too many stores, too much non-drinkable crap in them and a ton of corporate rules. Krmnnghia LOOOOOVES Beaners. |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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i am sorry to hear that in my opinion we are dealing whith someone wha is a real one way street kinda of guy his way or no way.i lost any respect for the man i might of had. |
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Tattss1 Regular Member
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Somewhere on here I seen a list of places that had been open carried on, and two of the towns that I don't remember seeing were Bloomfield Hills and Waterford. My first OC was about two months ago at a starbucks accidently. By accidently I mean that I forgot that I didn't have it covered. It just so happened I didn't wear an outfit that permitted CC'ing and I just placed my gun in my waist band while driving to work (I have a CPL). I decided to get coffee and just didnt' think about it. This happened before I knew that I could OC in Michigan. Needless to say when I finally realized what I was doing I non discretely, i hope, slid it in my front pocket. No one said a thing, and I didn't notice any stares. Now that I have found this site and know it is legal I tried it briefly today getting gas and smokes at a gas station in Waterford. No looks or comments noticed. On a seperate note, I see reference to beeners (Bigby's i think) coffee a lot on here. I had never heard of this coffee chain before. I happened to notice a new one opened up near my office in Bloomfield Hills. Is the coffee that good there? I'm a Starbucks person myself, I like the stronger coffee. |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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WelcomeTattss1, Nice to see someone else in this area on here. Lots of great info and experiences to learn from on this site. Enjoy! |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member
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Tattss1 wrote:On a seperate note, I see reference to beeners (Bigby's i think) coffee a lot on here. I had never heard of this coffee chain before. I happened to notice a new one opened up near my office in Bloomfield Hills. Is the coffee that good there? I'm a Starbucks person myself, I like the stronger coffee. Beaners which is now Bigbys due to idiots that felt it was a slang term against them is awesome coffee. I used to be a strict Starbucks guy but once I had Beaners I was hooked. Give em a shot....anything you get will be tasty. Welcome to the board! |
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Venator Regular Member
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Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 12:29 am by Venator |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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Just a thought tattss1, maybe we can try and put together an event in Oxford/Ortonville area before the summer is over. Something to think about if anyone is interested. Not sure how many you guys typically do a year but let me know what all your thoughts are. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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Generaldet wrote: SNIP: Not sure how many you guys typically do a year but let me know what all your thoughts are.All year round. When it gets cold outside, events get moved inside. Restaurants, coffee houses etc etc. |
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Tattss1 Regular Member
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Generaldet wrote: Just a thought tattss1, maybe we can try and put together an event in Oxford/Ortonville area before the summer is over. Something to think about if anyone is interested. Not sure how many you guys typically do a year but let me know what all your thoughts are. To be honest I'm pretty new to this OC stuff and don't know if i'm ready to rush head on to bucking the system, put would be more than happy to step in line behind someone else |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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Tattss1 wrote: Generaldet wrote:Come on out to this event Tattss1Just a thought tattss1, maybe we can try and put together an event in Oxford/Ortonville area before the summer is over. Something to think about if anyone is interested. Not sure how many you guys typically do a year but let me know what all your thoughts are. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13510.html Venator, Springer and I are all pretty big you can stand behind us |
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Tattss1 Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: Tattss1 wrote:Generaldet wrote:Come on out to this event Tattss1Just a thought tattss1, maybe we can try and put together an event in Oxford/Ortonville area before the summer is over. Something to think about if anyone is interested. Not sure how many you guys typically do a year but let me know what all your thoughts are. I may just have to do that. |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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count me in.does ortenville even have a police station or do they out source?i think they have a lake with a picnic area. |
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Tattss1 Regular Member
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ruger45 wrote: count me in.does ortenville even have a police station or do they out source?i think they have a lake with a picnic area. There is a sub station for the County right in downtown. As far as picnic areas go there is a small one on oakwood road, but nothing really populated. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: Tattss1 wrote:Generaldet wrote:Come on out to this event Tattss1Just a thought tattss1, maybe we can try and put together an event in Oxford/Ortonville area before the summer is over. Something to think about if anyone is interested. Not sure how many you guys typically do a year but let me know what all your thoughts are. Yep, that would work. If someone starts shooting at us, well then...you're on your own. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Tattss1 wrote: Generaldet wrote:Just a thought tattss1, maybe we can try and put together an event in Oxford/Ortonville area before the summer is over. Something to think about if anyone is interested. Not sure how many you guys typically do a year but let me know what all your thoughts are. Don't let anyone fool you, we've all BTDT. |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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Tattss1 wrote: On a seperate note, I see reference to beeners (Bigby's i think) coffee a lot on here. I had never heard of this coffee chain before. I happened to notice a new one opened up near my office in Bloomfield Hills. Is the coffee that good there? I'm a Starbucks person myself, I like the stronger coffee. Starbucks burns their coffee beans when they roast them. I tried a cup once. Took it back. Tasted like it had been on the warming plate for hours. Never been back. They told me it was fresh. H..L, Navy coffee was better. Bigby's (Beaners) is good coffee. Almost as good as Herman's Boy coffee in Rockford MI. |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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Krmnnghia wrote: Tattss1 wrote:On a seperate note, I see reference to beeners (Bigby's i think) coffee a lot on here. I had never heard of this coffee chain before. I happened to notice a new one opened up near my office in Bloomfield Hills. Is the coffee that good there? I'm a Starbucks person myself, I like the stronger coffee. The only problem with Beaners, or any other coffee house for that matter, is the prices. I am not used to paying over $4.00 for a drink that did not have something stonger in it... |
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boom357 Regular Member
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Westland's city attorney told me I'd be in jail if I OC'd in Westland. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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That reminds me.... I'm gunna have to give them a call or something. |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member
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boom357 wrote: Westland's city attorney told me I'd be in jail if I OC'd in Westland. It amazes me that someone that suppopsedly knows the law so well has no clue about current gun laws. It's like they skip over them on purpose. Last edited on Thu Jul 31st, 2008 12:21 pm by Krmnnghia |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Krmnnghia wrote: boom357 wrote:Westland's city attorney told me I'd be in jail if I OC'd in Westland. You have to keep in mind; it may not be that he/they don't know. My opinion is that they use this strictly as a scare tactict to stop you from oc'ing. Yes, they can arrest you, merely as an act of harassment and inconvience. They may feel, if you set in jail for a while and then get released because no charges can be filed for a lawful act; you would think twice before being subjected to that experience again. I know this tactict works because I know of a person in Flint who does not oc, only because he was threatened with a trip downtown for the night. The cop even told him that it may take 3 or 4 hours to determine he has to be let go. With that in mind, this person does not oc. So the tactict does work. This works well with the newer people who would like to oc, but are not YET confident enough to risk it. |
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Venator Regular Member
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boom357 wrote: Westland's city attorney told me I'd be in jail if I OC'd in Westland. As warchild said. Also what a person says he's going to do and what they actually do are often quite different. I've been told many times that I'll get arrested for OCing. So far I haven't been. And it seems likely I won't be arrested. But you have to do what you think is best for you. Stand up for yourself or forever Kowtow to those with authority. A quote I like is "Speak truth to authority". |
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Venator Regular Member
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Found this article on the national forum. It pertains to Georgia, but I think it conveys some of the thoughts that people new to open carry feel and it's a good example of what usually happens when you open carry. Keep in mind this is a story about Georgia law so any reference to laws are only good in Georgia. Having said that the laws are similar to Michigan but not exact. I think Michigan is less restrictive in some ways than Georgia. http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/gun_toting_in_georgia/Content?oid=528311 Gun-toting in Georgia How I learned to stop worrying and love carrying my gun Published 07.30.08 By Andisheh Nouraee SALOON-STYLE DINING: Gun-permit holders can now carry guns into restaurants that serve alcohol (GEORGIA LAW). Drinking alcohol with a gun is prohibited, but restaurateurs worry they have no way of enforcing the prohibition. If you intend to rob me, stab me or punch me in the neck because you think I looked at you funny, I recommend you glance at my waist before lifting the pull tab on that can of whoop-ass. I may be carrying a handgun. Nearly everyone in our state can legally keep guns in their home. I am one of the few, the proud, the Georgia Firearms Licensed – one of a reported 300,000 Georgians permitted to carry a gun in public. Unlike the 9.2 million-or-so Peach Staters who do not possess firearms licenses, I'm legally permitted to carry a gun pretty much everywhere I go – walking my dogs, sipping a latte at my neighborhood coffee shop, buying deodorant at Target. Firearms licenses are easy to get in Georgia. All you need is a clean criminal record, about $40 and a couple of hours to spend at your county's probate court. If you're married, you may already be familiar with probate court. It's also the place that issues marriage licenses. In fact, when you call the Fulton County Probate Court the recorded message actually says "For information about marriage licenses, please press one. For information about firearms licenses, please press two." Romantic, eh? I got my gun license a year and a half ago after I was relieved of my wallet at gunpoint at my front door by a man who threatened to come back for me if I cancelled my ATM and credit cards. Since he was clearly comfortable dropping by the house unannounced, police told me to take the threat seriously by carrying a gun myself. I've had handguns for target shooting since I was a kid, but never carried one for self-defense. After the robbery, I applied for a permit so I could carry a gun without breaking the law. And even before the license arrived, I started to carry my gun from my driveway to my front door, which is legal; I was scared the guy would keep his promise and come back for me. As it turned out he was arrested a couple of weeks later, pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. When my permit arrived in the mail, I stuck it in my wallet and pretty much forgot about it. I didn't start carrying a weapon. He was in jail and I moved to a less transitional neighborhood. I felt safe again. Nearly everyone I spend time with regularly has a visceral and fearful reaction to guns. Having so many gun-dreading friends and acquaintances has taught me to keep guns where no one will ever see them. Carrying a gun in public seemed like peeing in the sink of a public restroom. Not illegal, but definitely a first-degree jerk move. I was also afraid of the reaction of strangers. I would hate to be the subject of this 911 call: "Hello, police, I'm at the Publix on North Decatur Road and there's a swarthy bald man here with a gun. He's headed for the Lean Cuisine." So, although I had a permit, I was less than thrilled that the General Assembly passed H.B. 89 in April. The new law would give licensed firearms permit holders the right to legally carry guns into places that used to be off-limits: city and state parks, public transportation, and restaurants that serve alcohol. It seemed to me that the law encouraged colossal dickheadedness by legalizing behavior – carrying guns openly in public – that makes people nervous. Under the new law, I could now legally take my gun into a restaurant that served alcohol – which includes places many consider bars, such as the Earl or Manuel's Tavern. I could Rollerblade in Piedmont Park while packing heat. I could even take a gun on MARTA. Imagine if someone with a firearms license walked onto a MARTA train with a shotgun. He couldn't be arrested, even though someone can be ticketed for eating on a train. "So I just want to be clear," I asked MARTA police Chief Wanda Dunham. "If I had a turkey sandwich in one hand and a gun in the other hand, MARTA police would ticket me for the turkey sandwich?" "If you're eating it," she replied. "Only if you're eating it." Someone with a permit can board a MARTA train with a shotgun? "That's what the law says," she replied. Then, with sarcasm, she adds, "It just gives you that warm fuzzy feeling." The law, which was passed in the last hours of the Legislature, drew sharp criticism from anti-gun organizations. Brian Siebel, senior attorney at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, says there will likely be more violence at places guns were once prohibited. He points out that Timothy McVeigh and Cho Seung-Hui, the Virginia Tech killer, both would have qualified for a firearm's license that allows you to carry a gun openly. "Just because you get a driver's license doesn't mean you're a good driver," he says. "People who engage in road rage probably all have a driver's license." The Georgia Restaurant Association lobbied against the law, even though it prohibits people with guns from consuming alcohol in a restaurant. The restaurateurs argued that it's impossible to determine whether someone drinking alcohol is also carrying a concealed weapon. "We didn't want the bill to pass," Keisha Carter, the association's director of public affairs, says. "Asking if you're 21 and if you have a concealed weapon should not be a responsibility of anyone in this industry." On July 1, the day the law went into effect, there was a showdown of sorts. The city had already announced it wouldn't allow people to carry guns on Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport property, unless it was unloaded and in checked luggage. The author of the legislation, state Rep. Tim Bearden, countered that the law allows people to carry guns up to the security checkpoints. The Villa Rica Republican happened to be picking someone up at the airport that day and had vowed to bring his gun with him. Mayor Shirley Franklin and airport General Manager Ben DeCosta held a press conference at Hartsfield-Jackson to publicize their intention to keep the airport a gun-free zone. They were joined by the media and a half-dozen members of the gun rights group GeorgiaCarry.org, there to protest the city's position. Bearden and his gun never showed up at the airport, though. But later that day, he did file a lawsuit against the city for banning guns from the airport. A hearing is scheduled next month. The city argues the airport and its parking lots are municipal buildings, and therefore not subject to the law's public transit provision. In their speeches, both Franklin and DeCosta emphasized the 9/11 attacks as reason to keep guns out of the airport. The city's found a powerful ally in U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., who's demanding that the Transportation Security Administration ban guns from all parts of major airports. "I keep hearing the phrase 'in this post-9/11 society' and I'm so sick of that," said Mark McCullough, a GeorgiaCarry.org member who was at the press conference. "What 9/11 showed me was that the government has no ability to protect me. I don't want to be walking around the parking lot here with [my cell phone] being the only device protecting me." While I was at the airport, GeorgiaCarry.org treasurer Michael Menkus invited me to a party. To celebrate their newly granted right to carry guns in restaurants that serve alcohol, members of the group planned to meet at Christos, a Greek-style pizzeria in Marietta, to eat dinner with handguns strapped to their waists. After work that day, I grabbed my Beretta 92FS (a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun I bought for target shooting when I was in college because I thought it looked cool on the Lethal Weapon movie poster) and headed to Christos. Even though I knew the place would be filled with people openly carrying guns, and that the restaurant welcomed them, I still walked in sheepishly with my gun hidden inside my computer bag. Until I saw it with my own eyes, I couldn't believe it was socially acceptable to openly carry a pistol into a restaurant. The scene inside amazed me – 40 or 50 people, mostly men, casually socializing in a public restaurant and every one of them had firearms. I didn't walk in expecting the Wild West, but I definitely expected more of a macho, sausage-party vibe than was apparent. As it turned out, I've been to bar trivia nights that were more menacing. The closest thing to machismo I encountered was when gunsmith David McDonald sarcastically referred to the high-capacity, 27-round magazine in his semi-automatic pistol as, "the crowd pleaser." He joked that he almost wanted someone to attempt a hold-up of the restaurant that night: "There'd be 500 guns pointed at him, and he'd piss himself." "There's no blood on the floor," Menkus deadpanned when I told him how surprised I was at the low-key tenor of the celebration. Menkus had a Glock 19 on his waist, and said he was happy about the new law. He believes an armed citizenry is essential to the preservation of civil liberties. Steve Guldin, an engineer at Lockheed, took a more practical attitude. He carries a concealed weapon when he's not at work, describing it as an insurance policy. "People ask me sometimes if I feel more safe with a gun," he said. "I don't. My risk of being a victim of crime doesn't change if I have a gun concealed." Having a gun, he said, merely gives him one more option in how he responds – along with fleeing, or calling the police – if he's targeted for a crime. He added that he's never been a crime victim. Everyone I talked to said they've never attracted any attention from wearing a gun in public. Menkus suggested it's probably because they're mostly middle-aged white guys, and many times people assume they're police officers. My eyes were drawn to the lone black man in the room, and I wondered if he'd encountered any problems when he'd carried a gun in public places. Zaylvia Carmichael immediately recognized my agenda. "You're asking me because I'm the first black dude you've seen here tonight," he said. Carmichael has had a permit for 12 years. He's never been targeted for a crime, but pointed to a scar on his chin. He explained it was caused when he was hit by a stray bullet fired during a drive-by shooting outside a bar in rural Georgia many years ago. Carmichael carries a concealed weapon nearly everywhere he goes, and sometimes openly carries if he's walking to and from his car late at night. He has openly carried at Wal-Mart several times, he said, and has never been the target of a "there's a man with a gun" 911 call. I had a hard time believing that anyone, black or white, could openly carry into a restaurant or on MARTA without getting ugly looks or police attention. So I invited Carmichael to join me for dinner the following week. I'll buy, I said, on the condition that we both openly carry holstered pistols into the restaurant. And it couldn't be a GeorgiaCarry.org gun party in Cobb County, either. It had to be a place where nobody expects – or wants – someone to be packing. I figured if I was going to take the plunge and openly carry, then Carmichael and I might as well do it in the least appropriate, newly legal-to-carry place I could think of: Chuck E. Cheese. The relationship between gun ownership and violence is subject to fierce debate that anyone with even a passing interest in the issue probably knows by heart. Advocates of stricter gun control say the high rate of gun ownership in the United States, compared with other industrialized nations, fuels violent crime. It's a suggestion supported by numerous studies. While overall crime rates in the United States are comparable to Western Europe, our murder rate is much higher – on par with many poorer, less stable nations. Supporters of permissive gun ownership dismiss those comparisons and say banning guns will take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens without disarming criminals. Near-total gun bans in such cities as Chicago and Washington have had no apparent impact on murder rates. Gun-control advocates (like my editor, who made me put this point in) counter that many guns in big cities come from states with more permissive gun laws, like Georgia. Regardless of crime stats, the U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled for the first time that individual gun ownership is a constitutional right. Ed Stone, president of GeorgiaCarry.org, says fears that Georgia's new gun law will result in increased violence are misplaced. "Georgia is by no means on the cutting edge here," he says. Other states already allow some residents to carry firearms in restaurants that serve alcohol. He says there's no evidence to indicate people legally carrying guns into restaurants are getting into "drunken shootouts." "[Our members] view their license to carry as something that's extremely important to them," Stone says. "They're not going to risk [losing their license] and going to jail for a year to have a beer." Siebel of the Brady Center agrees that most gun-permit holders are responsible; it's the few who aren't that worries him. Especially when Georgia has no requirement for training to receive a license. "It's ridiculous to claim licensees are all upstanding, law-abiding citizens," he says. He cites a Violence Policy Center study showing Texas gun-permit holders were arrested for 5,314 crimes between 1996 and 2001. Nevertheless, a report Siebel authored for the Brady Center describes just five examples since 1997 of a permit holder discharging weapons at restaurants. Three were accidents, one was an argument and one involved a drunken man who shot a toilet to pieces. None of the incidents resulted in fatalities. Siebel says his list contains only a "tiny fraction" of crimes committed by licensees because neither law-enforcement nor the media typically report whether those arrested had a gun license. As states loosen gun restrictions across the country, Siebel is concerned about the additional number of deaths since people will have greater access to guns in moments of rage. "It's not going to be thousands; it's going to be dozens," he says. "We have so many gun deaths in this country that we slough it off as insignificant." It took me a while to build up the courage to openly carry a gun in public. It's difficult to shake off years of social conditioning and, honestly, if I hadn't been writing this story, I probably wouldn't have done it. I started my counterconditioning by dining alone, with my gun very much concealed. I picked a cheap Asian restaurant near my house so if someone got upset with me for carrying a gun, it wouldn't matter that I'd be too embarrassed to ever return there again. Still, it made me sick to slip my Smith & Wesson .38 special revolver into my pocket and walk into the restaurant. Even though it was legal and nobody even knew the gun was there, I had knots in my stomach like I was doing something terrible. The feeling didn't go away, even after I got home. In retrospect it may have been the chicken I ate. A few days later, I pushed myself a little further. I holstered the .38 on my belt, but wore an untucked shirt to cover it. I thought the outline of the gun was obvious through the shirt, but evidently it wasn't. I interviewed several people at Vinocity in Kirkwood about guns in restaurants, and not one of them commented on the bulge under my shirt. John Turpin, the owner, said he's not really fretting about people bringing weapons into his restaurant because, short of putting a metal detector at the door, he has no way of keeping guns out. "There could be four guns in here right now for all I know," he said to me. The restaurant is dark with reddish lighting, so Turpin probably didn't notice my face turn red with shame. He was talking to me about guns, and had no idea I was carrying one. I felt like such an @#$%. I chickened out of taking Zaylvia Carmichael to Chuck E. Cheese with our guns. When I mentioned the plan to a friend who is usually supportive of my stupid ideas, he sounded appalled. He didn't elaborate, but he's the father of two small kids. I suspect the thought of two yutzes pushing social boundaries by carrying pistols into Chuck E. Cheese contravened his sense of decency. So instead of choosing an inappropriate place for dinner, Carmichael and I chose an ironically appropriate place: a LongHorn Steakhouse. We were to meet at the one on Camp Creek Parkway because it's close to his house. When I arrived, I got out of the car, tucked in my shirt and put the .38 on my belt. I started to walk to the entrance and less than halfway to the door, I turned around and went back into my car. Carmichael wasn't there yet and I was too nervous to walk in alone. After 15 minutes, he called to tell me he was waiting in front of the restaurant. I walked around front and there he was, wearing jeans, a baseball cap, a tucked-in rugby shirt, and a .40-caliber Glock on his belt. What happens when a Middle Eastern-looking man and a young black man walk into a LongHorn with loaded pistols on their belts? "Welcome to LongHorn, will it just be the two of you?" The hostess told us there would be a 20-minute wait. We stood at the doorway and talked. Nobody said a word or even looked at us funny. A few people glanced down at my belt as they walked up, but honestly, a new iPhone would have caused a bigger fuss than our guns. While we waited, I told Carmichael that my original plan was to meet him at Chuck E. Cheese. "I've been to Chuck E. Cheese with a gun," he casually replied. The only awkward moment of the evening was when our food arrived. Carmichael told me that my entree, the Outlaw Steak, looked far more appetizing than the shrimp he'd ordered. "It's a huge steak; you can have half," I said. "Two dudes sharing food," he replied. "That's gay." I had walked up to the restaurant concerned that something bad would happen because I was carrying a gun. I worried that I'd be confronted by someone, or that someone would call the police. At the least, I expected hostile or fearful stares. Instead, nothing happened. I realized that I was more aware of my gun than anyone else in the restaurant. I was nervous and terribly self-conscious. My gun was easily visible to about 15 people during dinner. No one paid attention to it. The only person who acted like it was strange to have a gun in a restaurant was me. As I walked back to my car that night, I felt a mild panic rise when I realized my keys weren't in my pockets. When I reached my car, the driver's door was unlocked. I opened it and looked inside. I'd been so nervous and distracted over the gun, I'd left my keys resting in the ignition. A couple days later, my fiancee suggested running some errands together. If she'd suggested it two weeks earlier, I would've picked up my iPod. But after the experience at LongHorn, I wasn't nervous anymore. Today, it was the iPod and the gun. We had lunch, bought dog food and even went to the Target on Moreland to buy deodorant. I stood in line at the checkout behind a Fulton County Sheriff's deputy. If she noticed that I had a .38 on my waist, she didn't let on. The following week, my car broke down on the highway while I was on my way to the shooting range. Again, I had a pistol on my belt. The tow truck driver didn't seem to notice. Nor did the staff at the tire shop. If they were bothered by my gun, they didn't let on. I got the same slow, sullen service I've always gotten at discount tire shops. By now, openly carrying felt comfortable enough that I decided to subject myself to one last test: MARTA. Chief Dunham told me it's MARTA police policy to confront anyone with a visible gun and ask to see a permit. Could I ride MARTA to work, during rush hour, with a gun on my waist, without alarming passengers or earning a possibly unpleasant chat with MARTA police? At 8 a.m. on a Thursday, I clipped my Beretta to my belt at the Edgewood-Candler Park station. I had decided to carry the Beretta because it's about 2.5 times the size of my .38 revolver. You can't help but see it. With my Breeze Card in hand – and my gun permit and driver's license in my left pocket, intentionally opposite the holster in case I had to produce them for MARTA police – I took the escalator into the station. I passed four people along the way. No reaction. At the passenger gate, I passed a woman who appeared to be in a MARTA uniform. "Good morning," she said, without glancing at my gun. I waited on the platform, with a dozen or so people, and even stood in the middle of the crowd so the most people could see me. Nothing. I'd been as conspicuous as possible and nobody reacted. Nobody acted as though they felt threatened by this stranger with a gun on his waist. It changed my perception of how the public views guns, even in the liberal core of the metro area. I got the same reaction on MARTA as I did in Cobb County, as I did shopping in Target or walking my dogs in Decatur – no reaction. I carried my gun in public because I was writing this story, and one thing that surprised me was how quickly I became comfortable with it. But I don't think it's going to become a habit. It's still a big deal to carry a gun. Guns are intended to kill people, or at least to threaten to kill people. That's really not a message I want to convey, even if it's not the message people seem to get when they see me with a gun. When the train arrived, I made one last effort at being conspicuous. I boarded and walked all the way down the car to ensure the greatest number of people could see the gun on my belt. When I sat down and looked up to see if anyone was staring at me, I discovered that most of the passengers were looking down or staring into space. Two people watched a woman in a pink tank top who casually put on deodorant as she munched pretzels. She was eating on a MARTA train. That's illegal. Where's a cop when you really need one? |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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Hey guys I open carried for my first time today! Went for my daily walk (not much else to do when you just got laid off) Saw a few neighbors, stopped and said hi, No issues. I gotta say it felt pretty damn good! |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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Generaldet wrote: Hey guys I open carried for my first time today! Went for my daily walk (not much else to do when you just got laid off) Saw a few neighbors, stopped and said hi, No issues. I gotta say it felt pretty damn good!Good for you. It can be pretty liberating, as well as scary as hell the first time. I always advise baby steps when first beginning to OC. Congrats....carry safe, carry often. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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Had my first LEO encounter tonight while OC'ing. Other than the picnics i have attended, i really haven't OC'ed much. Feeling like a hypocrite....I have been OC'ing in my neighborhood everyday since the day after the Grand Rapids picnic. I usually OC somewhere between the hours of 5 - 7 p.m., as i check my daily mail. We have a community mail center in the middle of my subdivision. OC has been a great way to meet some neighbors i have never met before. They all ask about the legality of what i am doing. Nice people here. It was on my way back up my driveway tonight that i realised i had some damage to one of my outbuildings. We have been having trouble latley with some misguided youth in the area. Upon inspection it looked like someone had used some rocks (evidence on the ground) to try to gain access. The rocks were not from my yard, as i don't use them in my landscaping. My wife loses it and calls the law. An officer arrives, i was still OC'ing. I pretty much forgot i even had it on with everything that was going on. It was just dark enough that he needed the aid of a flashlight to view the damage. It was about 5 minutes into the viewing that the officer realised i was carrying. Flashlight on my pistol the officers questions began. Long story short he chose not to arrest me. He did however call into the station and inquire as to whether what i was doing was legal or not. He was advised by someone in charge (over a cell phone and not the radio) that i was in fact illegal. Upon my further CALM protest that i was not illegal, he ended the OC issue by giving me the sargents number he had spoken to previously, finished his report and left. I immediately called the sargent. We spoke for a minnimum of 30 - 40 minutes. The sargent was VERY professional. About 3/4's of the way through the call after mentioning the MSP website and OCDO over and over, the sargent said he was currently looking at the MSP site and asked for MY instruction as where to go and what to do next. I was blown away.... I asked him to use the words "open carry" in the search box on the upper right corner. I had him click the first link and then directed him to scroll down to the appropriate area. Once there we read the "did you know? open carry is leagl in Michigan" area together. I couldn't believe this was happening. He had NO idea, regarding the MSP legal updates. He said they have a training course for about 4 hours once a month, that all officers are required to take. He said he printed out all the info and would pass it on to the appropriate people. He said he would fully investigate the issue and advise that they provide proper training and awareness to OC......IF they find what i was saying was in fact true. Also upon my recommendation, he said he would stop by OCDO when he got a chance. Some may say "awe bullsh*t" the officer was yanking your chain. I for one am VERY inclined to believe his words. Not only did he spend almost an hour with me on the phone, but.....he was very polite, Didn't talk down to me, throw his badge around, OR the law that they have been taught or have come to understand in ANY way. He was courteous, kind and let me speak and present MY side of things. All in all i would score my first OC LEO encounter as a positive one. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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that is good to hear that... I don't remember if you said where you were from, but what department did you talk to? |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: SNIP: what department did you talk to?I'm sorry i forgot to put it in. That would be Macomb County Sheriffs dept. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Great job Warlockmatized. Very well done, you hit on one of our goal, to educate the LE community. And kudos to the Macomb Co. Sheriffs department. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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I tend to hold the MSP in high regard and now I must kick the Sheriffs up a notch too. Still don't like local/city police though...... Good job warlock! |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: ...Quite to the contrary, I would most definitely say that that particular Sargent acted in a very professional manner. He is the type which goes towards building a bond between citizen and LEO that has been sadly eroding over the years. Kudos to him. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: Kimberguy wrote:SNIP: what department did you talk to?I'm sorry i forgot to put it in. That would be Macomb County Sheriffs dept. Excellent job Warlock. You have the Sargent's phone number, give him a call and ask if it's okay to email him Brian's OC info. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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SpringerXDacp wrote: warlockmatized wrote:I have already sent several emails to them. It has been a month now with no reply. In my conversation with him last night i asked for another email address to send the info to, he gave me the same one i have already used.Kimberguy wrote:SNIP: what department did you talk to?I'm sorry i forgot to put it in. That would be Macomb County Sheriffs dept. I wish i knew HOW to get an open dialogue going with them on some neutral ground. As i believe my phone call was positive, i feel my ideas and attempt at an education will be squashed some where down the line I do have high hopes that this is not the case. But then again all my other conversations with other MCS (Macomb County Sheriff) officers with the exception of one here in my home early last month and last nights phone calls have all been met with the promise of going to jail and expensive legal battle if any of them witness me OC'ing. Time will tell.On a side yet even sad note. I called the MSP today. Spoke with them regarding last nights incident. According to MSP i was in my FULL legal right. The officer on the phone today said he supported me 100% and wished others would get on board. The sad part is he said that the MCS dispises the MSP in this area. They do NOT work well together. It was the officers opinion from the MSP that the MCS wish they would go away and leave the immediate area and let the MCS have FULL reign. YIKES! |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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This is actually the cae with the Oakland County Sherrif dept. as well. The OCS (I have heard from someone who should know) will actually even give tickets to MSP troopers. I've heard their is a lot of strain between the two departments. OCS patrols this side of my town on contract kind of a lowest bidder type thing, while the Oxford police only patrols the village of Oxford right down town. Don't get me wrong cop or not if you break the law you should get a ticket but you know, the un written rules of the badge and all. LOL |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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Great job by the way!!! I consider that a victory |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member
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Open Carried in IMO the most gun friendly place in the state...Cabelas! No issues for the first 30 minutes or so. Was in with my father in law to buy a new bow. I was looking to pick up a new 1911. So we pick out a nice Martin Bengal and my father in law and a salesman head to the firing range. He shoots a few arrows and asks me to shoot it. Here is how it went down as I start to draw the bow for my first shot... Salesman: WHOA wait, I am going to have to ask you to cover up your sidearm. Me: I'm sorry what?(politely) Salesman: Trust me I love the fact that you are carrying and wished I would see more of it but I don't want anyone in here freaking out. Me: Well I am well aware of Cabela's corporate policy and this really should not be an issue. Salesman: Please cover it up now. Now I was there with my Father In Law and out of respect for him I covered up so he could finish his purchase. I on the other hand did not buy my 1911. I plan on writing the General Manager to let him know what happened and get his opinion. We will see how that goes. Last edited on Sat Aug 2nd, 2008 03:05 am by Krmnnghia |
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Venator Regular Member
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Krmnnghia wrote: Open Carried in IMO the most gun friendly place in the state...Cabelas! No issues for the first 30 minutes or so. Was in with my father in law to buy a new bow. I was looking to pick up a new 1911. So we pick out a nice Martin Bengal and my father in law and a salesman head to the firing range. He shoots a few arrows and asks me to shoot it. Here is how it went down as I start to draw the bow for my first shot... You can always say you can't cover it up because you don't have a CPL or it's at home as you don't need a CPL to open carry. See what they say to that. |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member
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Yes I could have said that and I could have asked to talk to the manager but since I was with my father in law I decided to let it slide at that time. The issue will be dealt with though. Not 2 minutes afterwards my wife said "What the hell?!?!...this is Cabelas!" |
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Venator Regular Member
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Krmnnghia wrote: Yes I could have said that and I could have asked to talk to the manager but since I was with my father in law I decided to let it slide at that time. The issue will be dealt with though. Gotta love a wife like that. |
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DanM Regular Member
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Venator wrote: You can always say you can't cover it up because you don't have a CPL or it's at home as you don't need a CPL to open carry. See what they say to that. Best thing to do, knowing corporate policy was on your side, was ignore salesguy's sheep-like bleatings. Execute your arrow shot you were already drawn for. Ignore non-transaction talk. Tell salesguy you are there to transact business and he has two options: 1)Stop wasting time and continue the business transaction, or 2)Move out of the way so you can go find another salesguy who wishes to complete a transaction and take your money. If he doesn't choose option 1, move out immediately. Do not look at or speak to him. Go directly to the store manager, tell him you are there to spend up to a few hundred dollars, and you want a salesperson to assist your father-in-law IMMEDIATELY, because salesguy X doesn't seem interested in completing a transaction with you today. Make sure you drop salesguy X's name to the manager, so he gets in hot water later. Last edited on Sat Aug 2nd, 2008 08:10 pm by DanM |
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PA-Carry Regular Member
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Had a nice time visiting relatives in Tawas City and OC'd with no problems. I did have a gentleman in one store ask me if the gun was real. I said, "Yes sir, it is." Him: Is that legal? Me: Yes sir. Him: I am 84 years old and you are the first guy I have ever seen with a gun, except for the police. I explained to him about guns being legal and he then asked me about why I needed to carry. "Personal protection and to protect my family." I then asked him if he and his family locked their doors when he was a kid and also about today. As you would expect he said that they didn't lock them then but they do lock them now. This seemed to click with him. We talked a bit more and I left. Nice conversation and nice encounter. I loved it! |
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TheEggman Regular Member 
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Krmnnghia wrote: Yes I could have said that and I could have asked to talk to the manager but since I was with my father in law I decided to let it slide at that time. The issue will be dealt with though. What If ... another customer had made YOU feel uneasy. Perhaps someone with a 'threatening looking' motorcycle jacket, or 'evil' tattoo -- maybe a big, threatening looking [insert ethnic group of choice here] man? Would the manager ask THEM to 'cover up?' What makes one customer's business (the one who felt uneasy about your sidearm) more important than yours? |
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dougwg Regular Member
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TheEggman wrote: Krmnnghia wrote:Because, didn't you know, guns are evil.Yes I could have said that and I could have asked to talk to the manager but since I was with my father in law I decided to let it slide at that time. The issue will be dealt with though.  |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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Just went for my nightly walk with the soon to be wife and the neighbor. Lots of neighbors out tonight nobody said anything, got one strange look from a lady. Two oakland county sheriffs drove by waived to them, they waived back and no problems. I just dropped them off the info last week it's possible that's why they didn't stop, but, more likely they didn't notice. Anyway that's the way things should go smooth and no issues! |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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well as most of you know what happen last week with me and the burton pd ihave not o.ced since.but to night i strapped on my holster stuck my 45 in it and went for a walk down grand travers hopeing to run into my friend no problems and did not see my friend.it feels good to be back.the last week i tried to figer out if this is worth it to me to possibly get harrased over o.c.and if i wanted to go forward ocing or just hang it up.but i like o.cing i like all of you people and it is my right to o.c.I thought a lot about what the burton police cheif said to me too.so i have now looked at both sides for a whole week and o.cing has won.Dureing this week a ladie at kroger got robbed at gun point on bristel rd a store i am at alot with my wife.to bad i was not their o.cing. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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ruger45 wrote: well as most of you know what happen last week with me and the Burton pd ihave not o.ced since.but to night i strapped on my holster stuck my 45 in it and went for a walk down grand travers hopeing to run into my friend no problems and did not see my friend.it feels good to be back.the last week i tried to figer out if this is worth it to me to possibly get harrased over o.c.and if i wanted to go forward ocing or just hang it up.but i like o.cing i like all of you people and it is my right to o.c.I thought a lot about what the Burton police cheif said to me too.so i have now looked at both sides for a whole week and o.cing has won.Dureing this week a ladie at kroger got robbed at gun point on bristel rd a store i am at alot with my wife.to bad i was not their o.cing. Ruger, I only live about 1/2 mile west and 1 block south of you. If you like, take your walks along my street (Wells), I'll call in a MWAG so you may practice on your LEO encounters. |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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OC at Sams club tonight no problem. 30minutes Then OC at Walmart in Battle Creek and the Management Got A Man With A Gun in the Store (Oops guess that was me!!) 30 minutes Wife and i were walking around the whole store buying food, personel stuff and (firearm supplies) met with Tom in the sporting goods dept, he looks at me and says i was looking for you with a smile, (have known him for a while not a problem)He tells management that he had heard that Oc was legal in mich while watching the news about the Hastings info March, so i offered to get him the info on open carry and gave him the info about the web site, and the State Police site, he said he could inform and update the mangement of the laws so that this wouldn't be a problem in the future. As this was the first he had heard of OC... Also suggested that all employees be given the information |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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SpringerXDacp wrote: ruger45 wrote:Got a chuckle out of that one.well as most of you know what happen last week with me and the Burton pd ihave not o.ced since.but to night i strapped on my holster stuck my 45 in it and went for a walk down grand travers hopeing to run into my friend no problems and did not see my friend.it feels good to be back.the last week i tried to figer out if this is worth it to me to possibly get harrased over o.c.and if i wanted to go forward ocing or just hang it up.but i like o.cing i like all of you people and it is my right to o.c.I thought a lot about what the Burton police cheif said to me too.so i have now looked at both sides for a whole week and o.cing has won.Dureing this week a ladie at kroger got robbed at gun point on bristel rd a store i am at alot with my wife.to bad i was not their o.cing. Seriously, just decide before you go out how you will respond when such things happen. Remember 1. Under suspicion of what crime are you detainging me for? 2. What is your reasonable suspicion? (If the officer says it's that your carrying a gun, you could also ask him to clarify if that is the only reason for detaing you). IE. "Is there anything else, or is it just that?)
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Tucker6900 Regular Member
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This post is from MGO Forums and I am posting this here at the request of Venator. This is the description of an LEO encounter my friend and I had a while back. Here is an instance I was witness to while walking with a friend in his hometown. My friend was the one OC'ing. It went like this: Officer Joe Cop: "Come over here so I can talk to you for a minute." Friend: "Sure, whats this about Officer Joe?" Officer Joe Cop: "We got a call about a man with a gun, and I see your a man, and you are carrying a gun. Do you have some ID on you?" Friend: "Sir, are you aware that I am not legally required to provide ID due to the fact that this stop is just for my legally open carry of a pistol? Am I free to go?" Officer Joe Cop: ,"No, thats not correct, you need to show me some ID." Friend: "Actually sir, the law does not require me to do so in this instance, but given the fact that you are unaware of the law, and neither one of us needs the hassle of an unlawful arrest, here you go." My friend did give the officer his ID, and by the time it was all said and done, Officer Joe's supervisor was on scene, chatting casually with us and his officer. He then corrected Officer Joe on the requirement to provide ID in this situation, and let us know that he will be letting all his officers know what to do in a situation like this. Both officers were professional and courteous, and we were on our way in under 15 minutes. Ill probably use the same dialogue if stopped by an officer in the future. And as long as they dont try to stop me from excersising my right to carry, openly, Ill have no problem showing ID. Last edited on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 09:21 pm by Tucker6900 |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member
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Had my first encounter with an LEO(or so he said) tonight. Was at Meijers in Okemos. Now Meridean Police have a really REALLY poor reputation around here. I had never had an encounter with them but now I can see why they are so disliked. My wife and I walked through Meijers at around 5pm for 30 minuites without a stare or a peep from anyone. I am carrying at 4:30, IWB with the butt out in Khakis and a Polo. I OC with this attire because I don't enjoy looking like a slob pulling my shirt out to cover. As I am turning into the check out lane I get a tap on my shoulder... Strange Guy: Excuse me I just wanted to let you know that your gun is showing. Me: Yes I am aware of that Thank You Strange Guy: Well I am a Meridean Police Officer and you don't want to freak everyone out do you? Me:Sir, I know the Open Carry Law and this is not an issue. Strange Guy: What are you trying to show off or something? Me: No Sir. At this point the people around me are taking notice and are now aware that I am carrying a gun. Several have slowed to a stop to watch the encounter. So he actually caused a problem, not me. Supposed LEO(raised voice): Well aren't you afraid someone will take that gun from you. Me: No Sir, My wife walks behind me when I Open Carry.(she also carries but I did not tell him that): Supposed LEO(raised voice/yelling): THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD. He went on his way and no one around me said a thing but everyone around me had to know what we were talking about because of how loud he was. Simply amazing.  It is no wonder they have such a bad rep. A simple "IMO you should cover up, have a nice day" would have been just fine. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Krmnnghia wrote: Had my first encounter with an LEO(or so he said) tonight. Was at Meijers in Okemos. Now Meridean Police have a really REALLY poor reputation around here. I had never had an encounter with them but now I can see why they are so disliked. This is really too bad. This is my neck of the woods and I have personally talked with the Meridian police chief about open carry. He said he knows it's legal. I sent him the LEO info I posted on the info page. This was about 6 months ago. I guess I'll have to email him this post and remind him to inform his officers again. |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member
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Venator wroteThis is really too bad. This is my neck of the woods and I have personally talked with the Meridian police chief about open carry. He said he knows it's legal. I sent him the LEO info I posted on the info page. This was about 6 months ago. I guess I'll have to email him this post and remind him to inform his officers again. If this guy truly was a LEO he had a terrible attitude. Chances are he will deny it happened as I wrote it or say I raised my voice. He just seemed like the kind of guy that thought since he had a badge he knows best. You know I really really have alot of respect for LEO's but sometimes... |
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Bronson Regular Member
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Just to clarify because I'm new to the whole OC thing.... It is still considered OC if it is IWB with the grip showing? Would that not be considered partially concealed? Thanks, Bronson |
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Krmnnghia Regular Member
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Bronson wrote: Just to clarify because I'm new to the whole OC thing.... IMO a gun not seen is concealed. If any part of the gun can be seen at all times by others you are open carrying. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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FYI, If you do not have a cpl, I would opt for an OWB or other type of exposed holster. I have been told by 2 LEO's that if ANY part of the gun/holster is covered they would arrest me for concealed carry. It all depends on the LEO. Remember, they can arrest you for anything. Defending yourself, before, during and after and encounter is your best plan for OC/CC. As you are doing here, knowledge, is the best defense to protect yourself. |
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TheEggman Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: ... I have been told by 2 LEO's that if ANY part of the gun/holster is covered they would arrest me for concealed carry. ... Judge: So officer, how did you know he had a concealed weapon? Officer: I saw it, right there, plain as day, sticking out of his waistband. Judge: You saw it, but it was concealed? Officer: Yes your honor? Judge: Who do you think yo are, Bill Clinton? Case Dismissed! |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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TheEggman wrote: WARCHILD wrote:I don't imply you would be charged or go to court. Here in Mich. just the threat of "Going downtown", for a few hours, has been effective in stopping some people from oc'ing. Most people, myself included, are not looking for a negative encounter with an LEO. So do what you can to lessen the chances of that happening before you carry.... I have been told by 2 LEO's that if ANY part of the gun/holster is covered they would arrest me for concealed carry. ... |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Venator wrote: WARCHILD wrote:he made it clear he doess not like this web cite and also told me he had to threaten to sue someone who runs this cite for calling him names. Ok, I have to ask you, Venator, WHAT name did you call the chief? |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Bronson wrote: Just to clarify because I'm new to the whole OC thing.... As I recall, from the Jackson County Prosecutor who taught the law part of my CPL class, if any part of the pistol and it's holster is covered, it is considered concealed. EVEN if part of it is sticking out. For instance, say you have a jacket on, covering the top half, and the bottom part is still visible. That doesn't matter. It's still concealed and you need a CPL. Same goes in reverse, if you have an IWB holster, and the top part of the weapon/holster is exposed, you still have it partially covered, so you need a CPL. Basically, to stay safe, if you don't have a CPL, DO NOT use an IWB style holster. You might end up in jail facing charges of carrying a concealed pistol without a permit. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Big Gay Al wrote: Venator wrote:WARCHILD wrote:he made it clear he doess not like this web cite and also told me he had to threaten to sue someone who runs this cite for calling him names. What is this about? What chief of police said what when where? If he wants to sue me, maybe I should sue him first. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Bronson wrote: Just to clarify because I'm new to the whole OC thing.... In addition to Big Al's post; this is MCRGO's interpretation/opinion: Q: Now during the summer months etc. if you carry say a snubbie holstered in a "IWB" and the handle shows, is that legal or brandishing? A: Brandishing means to "display in a threatening manner." While it would probably be a defensible charge under the circumstances that you describe, it is not unimaginable that the situation could lead to criminal charges. Some (certainly not all) cops operate on the principle of "when in doubt, make the arrest." And some prosecutors don't support our CPL rights and are predisposed to "get guns off the street." Even if a charge of brandishing is not brought, many localities have ordinances prohibiting any conduct that is a "breach of the public peace and order," (or words to that effect). Perhaps of greater concern is the fact that an inadvertent slip which reveals all or part of a holstered gun could possibly lead to a dangerous "man with a gun" call to police. I have been on police ride-alongs and seen what happens when such a call comes over the radio. Every police officer within range of the radio call speeds to the scene in an effort to join in the fray. Driving at 100+ mph with lights and sirens going gets the adrenaline pumping. Once on the scene, the cops are generally highly agitated and pointing their loaded weapons at the individual who is the subject of the call, all the while shouting commands. Even if no arrest is made, and no charges filed, the scenario is dangerous and inconvenient for all concerned. Combine that with the practical issue that was best summed up by Ted Nugent who said that open carry "offers no tactical advantage," and your best bet is to get good leather, the right clothing, and keep your gun concealed until/unless you need it to save a life. Funny, eh!!! |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Mike wrote: Big Gay Al wrote:Venator wrote:WARCHILD wrote:he made it clear he doess not like this web cite and also told me he had to threaten to sue someone who runs this cite for calling him names. I may be wrong, but I believe it's about the Chief of the Burton, MI PD. Apparently he thinks that Venator owns the OCDO site and this forum. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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SpringerXDacp wrote: Bronson wrote:Just to clarify because I'm new to the whole OC thing.... Don't even ask me what I think about MCRGO, they won't like it. But carrying a pistol in an IWB holster, WITHOUT a CPL, you run a greater risk of being arrested for carrying concealed without a license.Specially since AG's Opinion 7101 says having a gun in a holster is NOT brandishing. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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Big Gay Al wrote: SpringerXDacp wrote:Bronson wrote:Just to clarify because I'm new to the whole OC thing.... The Q & A assumes CPL. See their quote by Uncle Ted :""...Ted Nugent who said that open carry "offers no tactical advantage,".... "" I agree on the "...risk of being arrested for carrying concealed without a license." |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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Had quite a night wednesday night. Went in to Taco Bell here in Marshall, OCing, and noticed an abundance of LEO vehicles in the parking lot. I went inside, nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof, and ordered my food. I then went to get my drink, and some sauce packets. As I turned around, 6 different officers, from 3 different agencies all noticed my holster. The biggest, baddest, "meanest" looking mother walks up to me and starts grabbing napkins. We "talked" briefly about the fact that my shirt had become tucked in around my pistol, and when I said "Yeah, it's supposed to be", that threw him for one. Long story short, got to meet 5 different K9 dogs, got the "holy sh**" look from the Taco Bell employees once they realized I wasn't an LEO. SO - I know of a handful of officers that are busy in their law books yesterday and today trying to find out if what I was doing is legal or not. I now have a renewed sense of security, and encourage others...not all LEO are paranoid of gun owners, they just like to know that WE know what we're doing. Still waiting for the first "confrontation" with the local MPD, but that'll come in its own time. *S* *edit* can we get this thread cleaned up so that it's back to "Open Carry Experiences" too  Last edited on Fri Aug 8th, 2008 06:04 pm by azebolsky |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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azebolsky wrote: Had quite a night wednesday night. Went in to Taco Bell here in Marshall, OCing, and noticed an abundance of LEO vehicles in the parking lot. I went inside, nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof, and ordered my food. I then went to get my drink, and some sauce packets. "The biggest, baddest, "meanest" looking mother walks up to me and starts grabbing napkins." LMAO, that's funny. Glad it worked out...the way it should be. |
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knifemaker Regular Member
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I open carried for the first time today! I had been working up to it by letting the bottom of my holster show from under my vest. Today I took the plunge. I spent about 1/2 hour in the Petoskey Wal-Mart. The store was pretty busy as we have a lot of tourists here this time of year. I priced some computers and bought some small stuff. Nobody seemed to notice. I had a .45 Ruger Bisley on a dress belt holster, so I wasn't being very timid. I then spent an additional ten minutes in the parking lot getting on all my motorcycle stuff. No funny looks, no LEO, no nuthin'. Thanks for all who have posted on this forum. It has really helped me form my opinions on OC. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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knifemaker wrote: I open carried for the first time today! I had been working up to it by letting the bottom of my holster show from under my vest. Today I took the plunge. You don't mess around do you? Many begin to OC by walking to their mailbox, mowing the yard, local party store, etc. You went all out starting at Wally World. Congrats!!! |
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UpNorth Regular Member
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SpringerXDacp wrote: knifemaker wrote:I open carried for the first time today! I had been working up to it by letting the bottom of my holster show from under my vest. Today I took the plunge. Did you get some Nachos? |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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UpNorth wrote: SpringerXDacp wrote:knifemaker wrote:I open carried for the first time today! I had been working up to it by letting the bottom of my holster show from under my vest. Today I took the plunge. You mean Knifemaker? I haven't been to Wally World in years, not even for WWB. |
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knifemaker Regular Member
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UpNorth wrote: SpringerXDacp wrote:knifemaker wrote:I open carried for the first time today! I had been working up to it by letting the bottom of my holster show from under my vest. Today I took the plunge. I figured if I was going to do it, I might as well do it and not mess around. I've been CCing for 15+ years. OC makes a lot more sense. Nope. No Nachos. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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knifemaker wrote: I open carried for the first time today! I had been working up to it by letting the bottom of my holster show from under my vest. Today I took the plunge.Welcome to OCDO, nice job. Congrats on getting your feet wet. When you get a chance please change your location to reflect Michigan. Do so by clicking "my account" on the upper right. Remember to choose your country first so you get the state pop down to appear. If you dont want to show your home town that's fine. We are just trying to keep the Michigan member count up to date. Carry often, carry safe. Last edited on Sat Aug 9th, 2008 12:56 am by warlockmatized |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: Welcome to OCDO, nice job. Congrats on getting your feet wet.I know this is OT, but I just get a chuckle every time I see you say that, remembering the trouble I had until you helped me figure it out. |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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Carried last night in a Hardee's around 2300. No complaints, but a bunch of dressed up people from a church thought a guy in shorts and a thigh holster were aparantly pretty funny. I grabbed my dinner and took off. No issues, even when the manager came out to see if my order was being taken fast enough. *S* |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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ghostrider wrote: warlockmatized wrote:lol. I need to put it in a document so i can copy and paste it when necessary.Welcome to OCDO, nice job. Congrats on getting your feet wet.I know this is OT, but I just get a chuckle every time I see you say that, remembering the trouble I had until you helped me figure it out. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Get Cliptrakker. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: ghostrider wrote:Or, just make it a part of your sig.warlockmatized wrote:lol. I need to put it in a document so i can copy and paste it when necessary.Welcome to OCDO, nice job. Congrats on getting your feet wet.I know this is OT, but I just get a chuckle every time I see you say that, remembering the trouble I had until you helped me figure it out. |
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adam40cal Regular Member 
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I open carry all the time and today is the first time I had an encounter with the police, and it was a great encounter. I was outside messing around with a jeep my neighbor is building for mud bogging when a Saginaw police officer pulls in my drive way. I didn't really think anything of it I kinda though he was just turning around. He calls out to my neighbor and says hey Bill whatcha up too (turns out the cop is his grandfather). I walk up to talk thats just how I am I like to talk lol, and he says you looking for trouble? I said no I carry a gun everyday all day he says thats cool whatcha got? I tell him I got a 40cal S&W Sigma, he then says to me its nice to see a citizen who knows his rights and said I"m a true patriot. I know some might say you don't have to say anything to a cop, but he wasn't here on a mission he just seen his grandson and wanted to say hi real fast. This was a great to see an officer who respected my right to open carry. As some of you may know I"m going into law enforcement and he told me to go apply they might hire me. So this made my day big time! Not only did he respect my right he went out of his way to inform me of employment. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Haven't left an update in a while. This last week I OC'd: - Kroger in Frankenmuth for about 15 minutes - Uno's in Birch Run, it was VERY busy, and we had to stand and wait for a table for about 15 minutes, and then I sat with my stong side out, and the waitress and hostess definitely noticed... not a word was said about it - BP gas station in Shields - McDonalds in Merrill, I believe - Wal-mart in Saginaw for about 30 minutes I wish I could OC more, but most of my time is either spent at school where I can't OC, or at home where it won't be an issue anyway. |
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nikon1123 Regular Member
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I've been carrying on my nightly walks through Ypsilanti for a few days now, pretty much without incident. Last night, I walked past a spot where police were looking around in a lawn for evidence. I said "Hi" to one officer who was looking at me pretty hard, he responded in like manner, good times. Tonight, I noticed a very strong police presence that seemed to follow everywhere I went. Walking down Cross St., an officer passed me. While I was in Jimmy John's, he drove by again. Finally, on the way home, he passed me yet again. It makes me happy that I was getting such treatment, as I had nothing to fear with a police SUV passing by every few minutes! |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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They're probably trying to figure out what's going on. I can hear the radio conversations in my mind. "Is he an off duty cop? Is that legal? Wait, didn't we get some memo from the MSP saying open carry is legal? Don't we have an ordinance against that? Someone call the county prosecutor and see if we can arrest him. Damn, he's back at his house!" And on and on, and on. Sounds like a great town for a picnic. |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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nikon1123 wrote: I've been carrying on my nightly walks through Ypsilanti for a few days now, pretty much without incident. Last night, I walked past a spot where police were looking around in a lawn for evidence. I said "Hi" to one officer who was looking at me pretty hard, he responded in like manner, good times. Tonight, I noticed a very strong police presence that seemed to follow everywhere I went. Walking down Cross St., an officer passed me. While I was in Jimmy John's, he drove by again. Finally, on the way home, he passed me yet again. It makes me happy that I was getting such treatment, as I had nothing to fear with a police SUV passing by every few minutes! Look at this way Nikon, at least you know that you will have backup if the SHTF. |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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Been meaning to post more of these - Love's Truckstop several times, no incidents, and 1 girl on her smoke break said she felt a little better while I was out talking to her for a bit. McDonald's in marshall Citgo gas station in Albion On another note, Mastiff and I went to the Calhoun County Fair tonight, and were eventually asked to leave because of our sidearms, but we were also approached 2 separate times by 4 deputies(2 teams of 2), one set knew all about OC and knew we were legal, the other set were sniffing around to see what they could scrounge up. I'm personally convinced that the 1 deputy is the one who complained to the calhoun county fair office which resulted in our requested removal - even after I had been into the fair office earlier in the day, while carrying. It would seem that the fairgrounds are a privately owned entity under the supervision of the Calhoun County Agricultural and Industrial Society. Mastiff will have more input on this as well I presume. *S* *edit* i'll speak with Charlie Letts - one of the co-chairs, and the assistant chief for Marengo Twp. Fire Dept. Wonder if he'll be able to speak with the board and see if we can't carry on the premises. Last edited on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 04:47 am by azebolsky |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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Added note to the OC at the fairgrounds did check it is owned privately, and they were within there rights. We did go into CC mode but within minutes the deputy was back to inform us that the, owners of the fair did not want our weapons on there property, Even thou we have CPL's, and that we would have to remove them the (weapons) from the property so of coarse we were happy to leave, along with our money and credit cards, and I have no need to support the fairgrounds anymore !! Will post in the DO NOT PATRONIZE LIST Called the fairgrounds office today and the lady said that she would have Charlie call me back tomorrow on this matter, i informed her that i was going to inform my associates that we ( law abiding souls) will chose other places to support if they don't wish to support or rights to carry Last edited on Fri Aug 15th, 2008 01:55 am by mastiff69 |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Do we have a "do not patronize" list? |
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DanM Regular Member
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mastiff69 wrote: . . . the owners of the fair did not want our weapons on there property . . . Will post in the DO NOT PATRONIZE LIST. As well as being on a "do not patronize" list, are there email or postal addresses we can write to? I would like to personally express my displeasure and inform them I won't patronize them, and I'll discourage friends and family from patronizing them, unless they have friendly policies toward lawful gun owners, whether carrying openly or concealed. Maybe with enough letters from folks with those kinds of points, they'll think about the hit to their pocketbook. |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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Calhoun County Phone: 269-781-8161 |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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As of tonight I am going to request that a (do not patronize list) be added to the top header of each state, so when you log on you can see the anti's companies,stores, etc.. and then you can have full knowledge of you you are dealing with |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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It's just got to be... ME... I was challenged again today at..... Home Depot an employee came up to me and asked if I needed some help, I said yes. He says "Well you will have to take the gun out of the store first". (here we go again) I told him I had an email from the company and this store's manager that it is ok within the limits of the state law. He jumped on the phone and called the shift manager who told him it was ok, but could I just cover it up. I told him no I won't do that and he had better have his shift manager check with the store manager before pursuing having me leave. I have been involved in a project which has just spent about $34,000.00 in this store since March and I don't think they would like the rest to go to Lowes. He said he would check it out and let me know. On the way out I seen my other friend whom I talk to regularly (also has a cpl) he already knew about it and said don't worry he would make sure the word got to the right people to drop it! I guess I'll have to wait for the next visit. Oh, by the way, it was a shopper who told the employee there was a guy with a gun over there. ...........Typical........Where's my don't panic shirt!!!! |
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dougwg Regular Member
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mastiff69 wrote: As of tonight I am going to request that a (do not patronize list) be added to the top header of each state, so when you log on you can see the anti's companies,stores, etc.. and then you can have full knowledge of you you are dealing with How bout we talk about it Saturday first. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: It's just got to be... ME... I was challenged again today at..... Home Depot Where is that Home Depot? I want to go walk around inside looking for stuff while OCing, and see if they pick on me too. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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mastiff69 wrote: As of tonight I am going to request that a (do not patronize list) be added to the top header of each state, so when you log on you can see the anti's companies,stores, etc.. and then you can have full knowledge of you you are dealing with I know MCRGO has a "do not patronize" list. But I recall another (better) organization actually cautions against doing something like that. I just can't remember why. I'll have to go ask and see what the reason is. I recall at the time, thinking it was probably a good idea to not have a list, based on what was said. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Ok, from what I've found so far, the general consensus was, it's better to post a "pro-gun list" than an anti-gun list. I'm still searching for the exact reason, but that might take a day or two. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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I think it'd be a good idea to have both lists. ETA: OC'd into one of the Speedways on Eastman in Midland. Just paid for gas, got a glance or two from some people in line, but nothing was said. I think I get just as many looks at my Blackberry when I'm not OCing The clerk was very polite. Last edited on Fri Aug 15th, 2008 06:08 am by SQLtables |
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adam40cal Regular Member
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adam40cal wrote: I open carry all the time and today is the first time I had an encounter with the police, and it was a great encounter. I was outside messing around with a jeep my neighbor is building for mud bogging when a Saginaw police officer pulls in my drive way. I didn't really think anything of it I kinda though he was just turning around. He calls out to my neighbor and says hey Bill whatcha up too (turns out the cop is his grandfather). I walk up to talk thats just how I am I like to talk lol, and he says you looking for trouble? I said no I carry a gun everyday all day he says thats cool whatcha got? I tell him I got a 40cal S&W Sigma, he then says to me its nice to see a citizen who knows his rights and said I"m a true patriot. I know some might say you don't have to say anything to a cop, but he wasn't here on a mission he just seen his grandson and wanted to say hi real fast. This was a great to see an officer who respected my right to open carry. I feel I need to add this post even tho I'm gonna be a cop don't think I'm not for our rights! I wanna help people and enforce our laws to protect us not pound on peoples rights. I am first an American and patriot before a cop please remember that. |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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SQLtables wrote: I think it'd be a good idea to have both lists.of course he was polite... armed society, polite society. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Big Gay Al wrote: mastiff69 wrote:As of tonight I am going to request that a (do not patronize list) be added to the top header of each state, so when you log on you can see the anti's companies,stores, etc.. and then you can have full knowledge of you you are dealing with Ok, turns out it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: That was me. I was concerned that if we have a list of "shalt-not-carry-here" businesses, if one of our members carries there and is charged with it, he/she could be held to have constructive notice of the prohibition because we have the business's name on a website list. So, again I'll say we're better off to have a list of Pro-gun sites, instead of a "no carry" list. Last edited on Fri Aug 15th, 2008 05:57 pm by Big Gay Al |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Big Gay Al wrote: it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: Charged with what? At mnost you should just have a boycott list - the idea is to carry in as many places as possible - limiting carry to known pro-gun locations is essentially constructive concealment of OC in your state. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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Mike wrote: Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: Charged with trespass. It's not a good idea to have a "bad place list". |
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Mike Super Moderator
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dougwg wrote: Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: Huh? Why can a 3d party's boycott list be translated to support a tresspass charge? Normally, violating a no gun sign is not even tresspass (depends on state statute). Boycott lists can be effective to force a clear and known policy to be reviewed and maybe rescinded. Meanwhile, jsut keep open carrying everywhere. |
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Venator Regular Member
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dougwg wrote: Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: I agree with Mike, how can you prove he had ever seen the list of businesses. Also there may not be signs in place at a particular site, but was still on a list because they are not gun friendly. For instance a place might allow CC but not OC, do we want to support such a place? |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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I have to agree as well I think having a do not patronize list would be good. You can't prove that person ever saw the list. Hey if the Mayor can use the defense that they have to prove it was him that sent the txt messages. I don't see why it would be an issue then lol. Also, it's not an official statement from the company saying that you can't carry there. The company would have to inform everyone themselves through signs or verbal communication to have any legal groundto stand on. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Well, it's not my decision. But when a pro-2nd lawyer recommends something, and Jim Simmons is no dummy, I have think there might be something to it. Of course, there are some "don't patronize" lists already. MCRGO has one. Although I have to wonder at their list sometimes. I've found one place on their list that I know, does not have a "don't carry here" sign. So I don't know why it's on the list. But I'd think a list of friendly places would be something more special. It's always nice to know where we are welcome. |
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ChuckB Regular Member 
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I think a "Caryy Friendly" list would be nice so we know who to patronize..... But I also think a "Do Not Patronize" list would be good too. |
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Big Gay Al Regular Member
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Mike wrote: dougwg wrote:Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: AFAIK, in Michigan, it's not trespassing until you refuse to leave after being asked to do so. At least that's how it's been explained to me. |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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A carry friendly list would be a good idea as well. It would be good to support them. |
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DanM Regular Member
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Big Gay Al wrote: AFAIK, in Michigan, it's not trespassing until you refuse to leave after being asked to do so. At least that's how it's been explained to me. Also, even if you are aware of a "do not patronize" list of places which purportedly prohibit weapon carry, it's hearsay and probably not admissible if you are charged with a crime on the basis of you should have "known" from that list that you couldn't carry. One valid defense, among many, could go as follows: "Yes, I'm aware of the 'do not patronize' list on OCDO, but I don't believe everything I see on the internet and when I entered the establishment I did not observe any signs indicating that weapon carry is prohibited. So, in my mind I entered carrying lawfully." I don't think there's any problem with a "do not patronize" list being available here. If the establishment doesn't have visible signs prohibiting carry, then you may lawfully carry until and unless you are asked to leave. Of course, if you don't leave when asked to, then you are trespassing. |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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DanM wrote: Big Gay Al wrote:+1AFAIK, in Michigan, it's not trespassing until you refuse to leave after being asked to do so. At least that's how it's been explained to me. knowledge of an internet list is by no means knowledge of an actual store policy |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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DanM wrote: Big Gay Al wrote:+1 Well said Dan.AFAIK, in Michigan, it's not trespassing until you refuse to leave after being asked to do so. At least that's how it's been explained to me. |
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ChuckB Regular Member
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I open carried for the first time today... and with police present! O.K. it was at the Warren picnic at Veterans Memorial Park... This was my first time open carrying and my first OCDO meeting. It was great and I got to see what DOESN'T happen . |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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me too! popped my OC cherry today! |
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Dan F. Regular Member
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ChuckB wrote: I think a "Caryy Friendly" list would be nice so we know who to patronize..... But I also think a "Do Not Patronize" list would be good too. I agree. |
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normmechanic Regular Member
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I opened carried for the first time on the day of the picnic. all day before i even went to the picnic. stoped at a gas station to get gas , kroger to get supplies for picnic and taco bell later on that evening. my wife was so pleased she wanted to come back and talk somemore before the picnic ended. Thanks for the shirts it makes me feel alot more comfortable carrying wearing a shirt that explains what Im doing. I had a wonderful time and It was a pleasure meeting everyone. hope to see you guys soon. Last edited on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 01:54 am by normmechanic |
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nikon1123 Regular Member
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So, I said that I've been OCing on my nightly walks through Ypsilanti. Well, last Wednesday night, I had another encounter with the YPD. Walking around at 2 am (I'm a night owl), an officer stopped me. He didn't really want to hear about how OC is legal. He disarmed me, cuffed me, and did a full frisk (into the pockets). About this time, his backup arrived, including one officer from my previous encounter. That officer informed the officer who cuffed me that OC is legal, wherupon I was quickly uncuffed and given my gun and knife back, all with huge amounts of appoligies. We chatted for a minute and went our seperate ways. I don't want to pursue any legal options that may have arisen, but how can I inform the department of my displeasure most effectively? City council meeting, email to the chief, something else? BTW: I didn't post right away because I wasn't sure how I felt about the encounter. Now, my mind's made up. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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nikon1123 wrote: how can I inform the department of my displeasure most effectively? City council meeting, email to the chief, something else?I would send your thoughts via regular mail, with tracking of course. That way you will have proof "they" received your intent to "educate". You might need it in the future. I would also include the Mayor in your list of people to send to. In your mailing i would include any and all relative links. Not just the laws themselves but all the info you have available to you via this site. Laws, cases, and any media where the reporter has stated "OC is legal in Michigan". Let us know if you schedule a meeting with city council. I can't speak for everyone, but i myself would definitely come out to support you. Find out what type of building it is. If OC in that building is even possible. I think it would be a great thing to take a meeting with them while you and your supporters were all OC'ing. |
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normmechanic Regular Member
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I would come out and join you too. thats what we all need to do is stick together, I look at us as kind of a family |
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nikon1123 Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote: I can't speak for everyone, but i myself would definitely come out to support you.normmechanic wrote: I would come out and join you too. Thanks for the support guys, I may need it! |
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dougwg Regular Member
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I would talk to those 2 officers personally. They now know you, they may be willing to talk to the rest of the LEO's. Talk to them like they're human, because they are. |
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Venator Regular Member
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nikon1123 wrote: So, I said that I've been OCing on my nightly walks through Ypsilanti. Well, last Wednesday night, I had another encounter with the YPD. Walking around at 2 am (I'm a night owl), an officer stopped me. He didn't really want to hear about how OC is legal. He disarmed me, cuffed me, and did a full frisk (into the pockets). About this time, his backup arrived, including one officer from my previous encounter. That officer informed the officer who cuffed me that OC is legal, wherupon I was quickly uncuffed and given my gun and knife back, all with huge amounts of appoligies. We chatted for a minute and went our seperate ways. I don't want to pursue any legal options that may have arisen, but how can I inform the department of my displeasure most effectively? City council meeting, email to the chief, something else? A simple letter to the chief explaining what happened. Say you appreciate their work, but you request they have some OC training, and that you are looking into any legal recourse (by talking with an attorney) you may have. Keep the tone friendly, yet serious. Write it as if you were writing it for a friend, that is to be impartial, make it professional, keep the emotion out of it. Remember the letter could be used in a civil case, what you write becomes part of the record. |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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After the picnic the wife and I went to a church festival we attend every year to play cards in the vegas tent (I didn't open carry but I was wearing my t-shirt). A lot of people asked me "Ok, what don't I know?" to which I proudly showed them the back of my shirt. Not one negative reaction the whole night. One guy playing at the table asked me how it went today, and I told him it went great, lots of good food, great people, and an even better cause. He informed me that he wanted to attend and get some info but couldn't make it. I just happened to have with me the information I printed out from the website and gladly let him have it. He thanked me and started to look it over. I noticed later that night he still had the info with him, hopefully he will join the sight and help spread the word. Also, on the way out for the night one of the MCC sheriff's working the event asked me "Ok, what don't I know?" He read the back and said emphatically "YES, absolutely!" So I shook his hand and we chatted a bit about open carry and he was very supportive. He knew about the law and said it was actually a topic of discussion at his work after the Hastings get together. He told me that he felt it was not only a right but supported citizens protecting themselves. I applaud this officer and am glad to have met him. We hear a lot about negative experiences but this was a great one, and hopefully many more to come. The shirt is a great conversation piece and a great tool! Doug, thanks again for taking care of the shirts! |
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dougwg Regular Member
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Don't forget Venator, he did the graphics and kept lighting a fire under my ass to get them done. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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NOT really an OC experience per-se, but felt this was the place to share it. On Sunday (the day after the Warren picnic) i had a grad party to attend. I had already called my aunt a few days prior to tell her about Thursdays article in the paper and to ask if she minded if i exercised my rights on her property the day of the party. She asked what i meant by that. My explanation of OC and the fact that i would be wearing my .45 for all our family and other guests to see was met with a VERY stern "NO"! I respected her wishes and left the gun at home. HOWEVER the wife and i decided that not only would we wear our "Did You Know?" shirts but that i would also OC my empty holster. Armed with the shirts on our bodies, empty holster OC'ed on my hip, 5 copies of each paper AND an arm full of the same info we hand out at the picnics, we entered the party. It didn't take long for the "what don't i know" and "WHY do you need that thing" questions to start flying. Long story short.....I should have had the pistol in the car. My aunt the property owner, as well as all the other wound tight anti's in my own extended family as well as a few of the guests, had a totally different outlook about an hour after we arrived. I would have definitely been able to OC after some schooling in the law and the reading of all the materials. Lesson learned! I will wear my shirt as much as humanly possible. I will ALWAYS be armed with a folder full of info and keep my pistol nearby for such cases as the one stated above. Last edited on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 07:20 pm by warlockmatized |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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OUTSTANDING! sounds like you killed the "antis" with kindness. any anti who is truly as open-minded as they say they are, have a hard time refuting the logic behind a citizen's right to bear arms. at least when it's presented to them in a calm and intelligent manner. Last edited on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 09:20 pm by smellslikemichigan |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Warlock: Your experience is a good example of what I had in mind when I had the idea of making the t-shirts. Granted it was for myself, initially, but it seems it does work. Good job on the way you handled it. As for myself, I have started carrying 10 packets in my glovebox to handout. Keep the knowledge flowing. |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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Venator wrote: dougwg wrote: Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list:
do we want to support such a place? Sure. Why not? At least you can carry. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: Venator wrote:dougwg wrote:Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: Do you want to support a place that allows you to wear purple shirts, but not red or blue?... maybe, maybe not... but I don't see the difference, except that OC is advantageous IMO. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: Venator wrote:dougwg wrote:Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: Elitist. 7,000,000 don't have CPLs. 175,000 do. So this place allows about 2.5% of the adult population in, but not the others that choose to OC. Sounds a lot like "I got mine, let them get theirs" Typical of many in the CC club. |
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DrTodd Regular Member
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One issue I have with the "list" on another website is it does not explain HOW a business got on the list. One of the businesses listed is one where I often carry, both concelaed and openly. I've looked all over the store and did not see any signs. It was also obvious while OCing that I was carrying. I'm all for passing the word and not utilizing the services of those who choose to ban guns from their establishment, but the information better be accurate. Is that part of the issue in publishing such a list on this website? I also have been made aware of property owners who place a sign on the premises that the place has a seating capacity in excess of 2500, even though it doesn't, just to follow the letter of the law about posting signs in places where handguns are prohibited. This sort of tactic is, in my opinion, dishonest. It not only does nothing to truly warn those who carry concealed that handguns are taboo, but it also makes it seems that they HAD TO stop you from carrying your handgun because of the law. If they don't want guns in thier business, then post a damn sign and deal with the loss of revenue. So, I guess my question is whether any list, if it is developed here, is constructed based upon one person's unsubstantiated belief, or is it written somewhere?? IF such a list were developed by this website, I would hope it is based upon more than conjecture.... |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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DrTodd wrote: One issue I have with the "list" on another website is it does not explain HOW a business got on the list. One of the businesses listed is one where I often carry, both concelaed and openly. I've looked all over the store and did not see any signs. It was also obvious while OCing that I was carrying. I'm all for passing the word and not utilizing the services of those who choose to ban guns from their establishment, but the information better be accurate. Is that part of the issue in publishing such a list on this website? +1...... I agree completely. A good example, Walmart. How many posts have been made, even on the national threads of the problem oc'ing in Walmart. Suppose those who had a problem put them on the do not shop list? I for one have only been challenged once and after talking with the store manager and the security manager have had no problem oc'ing in their store since. I myself would ignore do not shop list and if I had to use that store, I would check it out for myself anyway. |
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daewoomofo Regular Member 
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im pretty sure the seating capacity signs that are put up for people to see are part of the fire code. if a place has an actual seating capacity of 500, and they place a 2500 sign on their door, they are in violation of fire code. im not 100% on that but it would be funny to have a place fined for fire code violation. |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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daewoomofo wrote: im pretty sure the seating capacity signs that are put up for people to see are part of the fire code. if a place has an actual seating capacity of 500, and they place a 2500 sign on their door, they are in violation of fire code. im not 100% on that but it would be funny to have a place fined for fire code violation.hehe, that's a good observation |
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daewoomofo Regular Member
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thanks smelly |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: DrTodd wrote:One issue I have with the "list" on another website is it does not explain HOW a business got on the list. One of the businesses listed is one where I often carry, both concelaed and openly. I've looked all over the store and did not see any signs. It was also obvious while OCing that I was carrying. I'm all for passing the word and not utilizing the services of those who choose to ban guns from their establishment, but the information better be accurate. Is that part of the issue in publishing such a list on this website? I agree if you NEED the store, then you go in.. don't cut off your nose to spite your face... On the other hand, Wal-mart should train employees to follow corporate policy. Even if I can get it straightened out, I still should not have to waste my time being hassled about having rights. Therefore, I'm inclined to NOT visit stores where I will be harrassed, whether it's policy or not. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Therefore, I'm inclined to NOT visit stores where I will be harrassed, whether it's policy or not. And I fully agree. It's all about personal choices, i.e..... No guns allowed at Kmart.... fine with me, I don't like that store anyway and don't intend to shop there. |
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DrTodd Regular Member
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As I recall from my CPL class, the Fire Prevention Code of Michigan requires a CERTIFICATE from the state's fire marshal that states the capacity: MCL 29.21c Place of public assemblage; inspection; certificate required. Sec. 21c. (1) The state fire marshal or, upon written request of the governing body of a city, village, township, or county and the approval of the state fire marshal, the chief of an organized fire department or a fire fighter in uniform acting under the orders and directions of a local fire chief, shall at least annually inspect each place of public assemblage to determine whether it is being maintained in compliance with this act. (2) A place of public assemblage shall not be established or operated without obtaining a certificate from the state fire marshal indicating its maximum capacity and that it is in compliance with this act. However, the CPL ONLY REQUIRES a sign that states that the capacity is over 2500: 28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation. Section 5o. (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals. Notice that the CPL law makes no mention of the certificate, just the signage required over the entrances which then makes the building off-limits to CC. So it appears that the certificate can be different than the sign used to notify concealed weapons carriers. No mention either that the sign has to reflect the capacity shown on the certificate. The particular establishment that does this is in Wyoming (on 28th street). If you are wondering which one, it is listed on the MCGO and has the name of the street in it's name. http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_no_gun_signs.asp I'm not saying what they are doing is legal, but I quickly skimmed the Fire Code and found no mention of a sign that could serve as a replacement for the certificate nor did I see that a sign posted that showed a different seating capacity than that shown on the certificate was illegal. Personally, after I became aware of this, when I was in the area I stopped by the front entrance. Yes I have seen the sign over the doors stating the 2500 seating capacity and, since they do have a large number of individual theaters in the building, who would know if the certificate form the marshal indicates this number; you'd have to enter the building to actually see the certificate. I never go into this theater for this reason, and wrote them a letter stating that I would take my business elsewhere. |
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daewoomofo Regular Member
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well i stand corrected |
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DanM Regular Member
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DrTodd wrote: However, the CPL ONLY REQUIRES a sign that states that the capacity is over 2500: No, the facility must in fact have a capacity of 2,500 or more. If the facility does not, a sign saying otherwise doesn't count, and you may carry concealed. The plain reading of Section 5o (f) consists of: "An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals . . ." This is the clause defining the subject of (f). It's not just any entertainment facility, it is one with defined minimum capacity. It's a statement of fact: the facility must in fact be able to accomodate 2,500 or more individuals. You are correct that there is no mention of a "certificate". There is no mention in this "defining" clause of anything to establish such a fact. Presumably, the establishment of such a fact would take place at trial via testimony, building plans, actual seat counts, etc. ". . . that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or . . ." It's not enough that the facility in fact have the minimum capacity already stated. This clause establishes that the individual carrying must have knowledge of that, or reasonably should have knowledge of that, in order to be guilty of an infraction. The "or" at the end sets up the introduction of an alternative to this "knowledge" criteria about the facility (which, again, must in fact have a certain minimum capacity) . . . "that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals." Alternatively, the person may not have knowledge of the factual capacity, but if there is signage indicating the factual capacity of the facility, then the person can be held guilty of an infraction as well. The point still remains, though, that the facility must in fact have a minimum capacity of 2,500. The "knowledge" and "signage" clauses are merely additional criteria to go along with this fact in order to hold a concealed carrier guilty of an infraction. So, in other words, if you see a sign saying a facility has a capacity of 2,500 or more, but you know that they don't and can prove that fact in court, then you are fine to carry concealed there, if you have a CPL. Just be sure about your facts, in a case like that. |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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Personally, I have not run into any issues carrying in either Wal-Mart, or KMart. Which ones specifically are we talking about when people say they've been approached? *S* |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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DanM wrote: DrTodd wrote:Maybe I got lost somewhere way back, but I thought the confusion was about Multi-Screen theaters that counted the combined capacity as one, and that it was a gray area of law that hadn't been explored yet.However, the CPL ONLY REQUIRES a sign that states that the capacity is over 2500: |
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taxwhat Regular Member 
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An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals . seating capacity of 2500 or more . ." Detroit zoo I believe is still in question ? zoo was putting picnic tables out to count as seats !!! |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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taxwhat wrote: An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals . seating capacity of 2500 or more . ." Detroit zoo I believe is still in question ? zoo was putting picnic tables out to count as seats !!!i was there a few months back (CCing, like a coward) and didn't see any seating capacity signs. |
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daewoomofo Regular Member
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smellslikemichigan wrote: taxwhat wrote:An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals . seating capacity of 2500 or more . ." Detroit zoo I believe is still in question ? zoo was putting picnic tables out to count as seats !!!i was there a few months back (CCing, like a coward) and didn't see any seating capacity signs. cc'ing isnt a cowards way of carrying, its just another form of carrying |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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daewoomofo wrote: smellslikemichigan wrote:you're absolutely right. that was a joke directed at taxwhat. he had my back yesterday during this discussion:taxwhat wrote:An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals . seating capacity of 2500 or more . ." Detroit zoo I believe is still in question ? zoo was putting picnic tables out to count as seats !!!i was there a few months back (CCing, like a coward) and didn't see any seating capacity signs. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/14893-1.html on page 2 we get WAY off topic, have a peepee contest and get into a discussion on semantics. Last edited on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 10:58 pm by smellslikemichigan |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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Ok back on topic if you have CPL and are told no oc pulling your shirt over comments please |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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taxwhat wrote: Ok back on topic if you have CPL and are told no oc pulling your shirt over comments please I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's not on topic for this thread either.... |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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SQLtables wrote: taxwhat wrote:Ok back on topic if you have CPL and are told no oc pulling your shirt over comments please sorry last 17//// 2 of witch were yours floors yours |
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azebolsky Regular Member
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taxwhat wrote: Ok back on topic if you have CPL and are told no oc pulling your shirt over comments please This would be a good topic for itself, however... Mastiff and I ran into this very issue at the Calhoun County Fairgrounds. We were asked politely by a sheriff deputy if we would either conceal or remove the weapons. When we both confirmed that we had CPL, we just pulled our shirts over the pistols and he said "Thanks guys" and we were on our way. It was only later that the fair board asked us to remove our weapons from the property. *S* Please can we get back on topic here? It's getting tedious wading through the extra-curricular comments trying to find out who's carrying where, and what places are cool with it. *S* |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the fair on public property? Wouldn't that mean that they wouldn't be able to make you? Also I believe the zoo is public property as well and nobody can make you cover up unless you wish to. If I'm incorrect please tell me. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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Generaldet wrote: Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the fair on public property? Wouldn't that mean that they wouldn't be able to make you? Also I believe the zoo is public property as well and nobody can make you cover up unless you wish to. If I'm incorrect please tell me.Mastif checked it out. The fair is on private property. |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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Thank you for the correction. |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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ghostrider wrote: Generaldet wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the fair on public property? Wouldn't that mean that they wouldn't be able to make you? Also I believe the zoo is public property as well and nobody can make you cover up unless you wish to. If I'm incorrect please tell me.Mastif checked it out. The fair is on private property. help me is calhoun next to sheriff office ? |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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taxwhat wrote: SQLtables wrote:taxwhat wrote:Ok back on topic if you have CPL and are told no oc pulling your shirt over comments please You're absolutely right, 2 were mine... I was just stating that WE, as a group, got off topic. I think that's a great topic for it's own thread. |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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oced genesse county park no probleme got asked if i was a leo and a guy said he did not do it and then he said he was framed walked around for about two houurs |
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dougwg Regular Member
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ruger45, Would you like to buy a comma or a period or something?  |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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no iam broke..........lol........... |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Since it looks like we are all off topic... in line with the "2500" deal. It looks like the law states "2500 or more" my CPL states "more than 2500" Any one else notice that? I know it is only the diffrence of one person, but that can make all the diffrence in the world. I called up the potter center(went to see Wicked, pretty good) and I called before hand their seating is 2500 on the nose, so i CCed. Being with my fieance her aunt and cousin, I didn't feel like having any issues OCing...(they only happen when she is with me) Anyone else have any experence OCing in he potter center? Last edited on Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 06:28 am by Kimberguy |
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SpringerXDacp Regular Member
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ruger45 wrote: oced genesse county park no probleme got asked if i was a leo and a guy said he did not do it and then he said he was framed walked around for about two houurs Exactly which park? The one on Mt Morris Road where the Fair was held? |
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ruger45 Regular Member
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stepping stone falls off of cold water road |
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mitunnelrat Regular Member 
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So far my open carry experiences are a gas station in northern Port Huron, downtown Port Huron on the Black River, a nature trail in Fort Gratiot Township, outside of my home in Fort Gratiot and where I'm moving into in Marysville, and at a popular fishing hole in Port Huron Township. Only one person, a kid I'd been fishing next to for a couple hours has noticed/visibly reacted. I haven't been positioned to oc in a big store yet, but I'm not too worried, I used to do so daily while in uniform for work. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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I know this is very short notice, but I will be OCing at the Civil War Muster at Cascades Falls in Jackson today, I will be handing out pamphlets to any one intrested in the legalitys of OC in our state. If you care to join up with me, I can be reached at 517 612 4501. I would love to have some other people there with me. Either way, alone or with 100, I will be there. Chris |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: I know this is very short notice, but I will be OCing at the Civil War Muster at Cascades Falls in Jackson today, I will be handing out pamphlets to any one intrested in the legalitys of OC in our state. If you care to join up with me, I can be reached at 517 612 4501. I would love to have some other people there with me. Either way, alone or with 100, I will be there. I went I OCed, great experience, handed out a lot of pamphlets, educated a lot of people who were very interested. absolutly awesome! |
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Venator Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: Kimberguy wrote:I know this is very short notice, but I will be OCing at the Civil War Muster at Cascades Falls in Jackson today, I will be handing out pamphlets to any one intrested in the legalitys of OC in our state. If you care to join up with me, I can be reached at 517 612 4501. I would love to have some other people there with me. Either way, alone or with 100, I will be there. Well done, thanks for all of your help. It's guys like you that will make this all work out for all gun-owners. Keep up the good work. PS. any problems from the Jackson police since we last communicated? |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Venator wrote: Kimberguy wrote:Kimberguy wrote:I know this is very short notice, but I will be OCing at the Civil War Muster at Cascades Falls in Jackson today, I will be handing out pamphlets to any one intrested in the legalitys of OC in our state. If you care to join up with me, I can be reached at 517 612 4501. I would love to have some other people there with me. Either way, alone or with 100, I will be there. None at all. If you decide to go to the Jackson Crossing at any time let me know if you can find the sign(yes singular) that doe not alow fire arms... good luck... if you can find it good luck finding fire arm policys. HAHA! but yea, no issues with the Jackson PD. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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OC'd yesterday: 1.5 hours in Target in Saginaw 45 minutes in Home Depot in Saginaw 1 hour in Dick's Sporting Goods in Saginaw No comments, except one lady my girlfriend and I were talking to in line at Dick's asked me if I was a police officer. I politely told her no, I'm just you're regular guy. She didn't run away screaming, and kept talking to us. Today: 30 minutes in the Midland mall 1 hour or so walking around the Tridge in Midland Over 2 hours letting the kids play at Plymouth park and surrounding areas in Midland (TONS of exposure) 1 hour at McDonalds on Saginaw Rd in Midland No comments today either..hm... seems to be a pattern ... although, I did notice that it's cool to have our 4 year old walking with me. Everybody wants to look down at the cute little girl, and I can actually watch their eyes go from looking at the cute little girl to the gun on my hip. It's humorous some of the faces I see. So, I do know people are noticing that I'm carrying, and still, nothing happens. |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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Venator wrote: Sailorwatson wrote:Venator wrote:dougwg wrote:Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: WHAT EVER!!!! |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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SQLtables wrote: Sailorwatson wrote:Venator wrote:dougwg wrote:Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: Color of shirts? I thought we were talking about a store that would allow CC but not OC. My decision to CC would make it acceptable for BTW: I am aware that my comments will bring strong objections from a couple of you, but I am not going to let it draw me into a childish pis...g match. |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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Kimberguy wrote: I know this is very short notice, but I will be OCing at the Civil War Muster at Cascades Falls in Jackson today, I will be handing out pamphlets to any one intrested in the legalitys of OC in our state. If you care to join up with me, I can be reached at 517 612 4501. I would love to have some other people there with me. Either way, alone or with 100, I will be there. Thats a great event. we used to go all the time until my wife joined a bag pipe band and we started traveling to competitions almost every week end. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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um.... if Concealed Carry is a "constitutional right" as you say, why do you need to get a license and pay money to the government for the permit and why do you need to carry that permit with you? Do I need a permit to speak my mind, to not be illegally searched, do I need a hall pass so that I don't have to bear witness against myself, do I have to ask for permission from the government to remain silent? CC = a Privelige OC = a Right |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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dougwg wrote: um.... if Concealed Carry is a "constitutional right" as you say, why do you need to get a license and pay money to the government for the permit and why do you need to carry that permit with you? I stand corected. I did not take the time to type out a longer message explaining the differance. I ASSUMED every one would know the differance. Guess I was wrong. I will try to be more precise in the future, even if it means a longer message. Please accept my humble apoligy. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: SQLtables wrote:Sailorwatson wrote:Venator wrote:dougwg wrote:Mike wrote:Big Gay Al wrote:it was our esteemed attorney friend Jim Simmons, who said, on another list: We were talking about a store that allows CC and not OC. To me, that is as offending as a store that stops me from wearing my bright purple Barney the Dinosaur shirt. If you're ok covering your Barney shirt with a plain white T-shirt, then you're willing to give up a hell of a lot more than I am. If you're more comfortable CCing, then by all means, do it. That isn't what we are debating. I have just as much respect for the CC crowd as the OC crowd. It's all about protecting yourself and loved ones. On the other hand, I agree with Doug. Nobody ever had to get permission to exercise a right. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: dougwg wrote:um.... if Concealed Carry is a "constitutional right" as you say, why do you need to get a license and pay money to the government for the permit and why do you need to carry that permit with you? I guess I don't understand what you mean. You assumed everyone would know the difference in what? |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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SQLtables wrote: Sailorwatson wrote:dougwg wrote:um.... if Concealed Carry is a "constitutional right" as you say, why do you need to get a license and pay money to the government for the permit and why do you need to carry that permit with you? That one was a rite (?) and one was a privilage (?) |
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dougwg Regular Member
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I like to be un-noticed. It is my constitutional rite to CC. I opt to exersize my rite to CC rather than OC. It is your right to choose to CC over OC. But the act of legal CC is a privilege and you incorrectly stated it as a constitutional right. Maybe it was a typo? Last edited on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 01:00 am by dougwg |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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dougwg wrote: I like to be un-noticed. It is my constitutional rite to CC. I opt to exersize my rite to CC rather than OC. Just a brain fart. Actually, I view either as a rite and a privilage. But thats just me. No legal training. Ya see I have the RITE to decide which way to carry. That is my point. The RITE I have been exercising is my RITE to decide. If the business says no OC then I exercise my RITE to CC and repect their RITE to make their decision. I can execise my RITE to be a JERK and complain, or go about my business and shop some place else. The shop owner has RITES as well, and their RITES need to be respected as well. Last edited on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 01:18 am by Sailorwatson |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: SQLtables wrote:Sailorwatson wrote:dougwg wrote:um.... if Concealed Carry is a "constitutional right" as you say, why do you need to get a license and pay money to the government for the permit and why do you need to carry that permit with you? OK. I think a lot of people here DO know the difference, but YOU stated that it is your constitutional right to CC. Maybe it was a mistake.. either way, it looks like we agree now. |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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SQLtables wrote: Sailorwatson wrote:SQLtables wrote:Sailorwatson wrote:dougwg wrote:um.... if Concealed Carry is a "constitutional right" as you say, why do you need to get a license and pay money to the government for the permit and why do you need to carry that permit with you? Ya, it probably was. In fact 2 mistakes. One question. When a law is put on record in the State of Michigan, does that become part of the State Constitution? If not, then that accounts for my first mistake, because I guess I just assumed that it did. My second mistake was my original reply, which I will prevent in the future. I will go back to lurking mode now. BTW: I have found this site to be filled with information and loads opinionated folks. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: SQLtables wrote:Sailorwatson wrote:SQLtables wrote:Sailorwatson wrote:dougwg wrote:um.... if Concealed Carry is a "constitutional right" as you say, why do you need to get a license and pay money to the government for the permit and why do you need to carry that permit with you? No reason to go back to lurking. You're opinions are appreciated, whether or not everybody agrees. Having our own opinions is in fact one of the rights we have as Americans. As far as I'm concerned, it's never a mistake to respond with your opinion. |
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DanM Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: . . . When a law is put on record in the State of Michigan, does that become part of the State Constitution? If not, then that accounts for my first mistake, because I guess I just assumed that it did. My second mistake was my original reply, which I will prevent in the future. I will go back to lurking mode now. As in all states, and the United States, enacted laws do not become part of the constitution. A constitution is a guideline for laws; it sets the boundaries outside of which laws may not go (hence the term "unconstitutional"). A constitution is never changed or altered by laws, but by "amendments", which require a much more thorough and painstakingly deliberative process to be undertaken than mere "legislation" which gives rise to laws. Although I would encourage you to remain in the public discourse here, why do you feel you need to announce that you will "go back to lurking"? If you're going to do it, just do it. But, again, I would encourage you to leave your options open and just be silent when you want to be and be vocal when you want to be. There's much more flexibility in that. Your opinion is as acceptable to be expressed here as anyone else's. Don't be hesitant to express and defend your ideas. And be willing to change your mind if you find a challenge to your ideas has validity. That is one definition of growth. Stay engaged. |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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DanM wrote: Sailorwatson wrote:. . . When a law is put on record in the State of Michigan, does that become part of the State Constitution? If not, then that accounts for my first mistake, because I guess I just assumed that it did. My second mistake was my original reply, which I will prevent in the future. I will go back to lurking mode now. I guess if I think back far enough I would probably discover that this topic was covered in Govmnt. in High School. Put it hurts too bad to think that far back... And too many burned out brain cells.. |
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DanM Regular Member
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Sailorwatson wrote: I guess if I think back far enough I would probably discover that this topic was covered in Govmnt. in High School. Put it hurts too bad to think that far back... And too many burned out brain cells.. Consider this forum a place where you may partake in "refresher" discussion of liberty and the proper application of the social compact. No need to think about the past, just pay attention to the present. Based on your participation thus far, you seem to have at least the minimum required neurons to grow. |
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LaVere Regular Member
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I had a Kahr K-40 IWB holster and a double magazine holster with two magazines I only saw one person that may have seen it. He said or show no interest in it. I WAS there buying vegetables for canning and not just parading around.   This picture shows what I was carrying at the time. I did have my hands up for this picture but not at the time of carrying  Last edited on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 07:41 pm by LaVere |
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Bronson Regular Member
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LaVere wrote: I had a Kahr K-40 IWB holster Doesn't the entire pistol/holster need to be visible for it to be legal open carry? If you are carrying IWB with the butt exposed isn't that considered parially concealed which equals concealed in the eyes of the law? Bronson |
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Venator Regular Member
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Bronson wrote: LaVere wrote:I had a Kahr K-40 IWB holster That is not clear as there is no law stating what is considered open. If the pistol is easily recognized by a reasonable person then it is open. So if you can see that it is a gun it mets the common criteria of open carry. "That guys got a gun, but I can't see all of it so it must be concealed" doesn't work very well. If it's concealed you can't see it. If you can see it, it's not concealed, simple really. |
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Dansjeep2000 Regular Member 
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Well i am new to the site and must say i am very interested. I decided to try OC after reading some info on the site. just a quik walk into the gas station on the corner of Durand rd. and M-21 went in and bought a pack of smokes and a soda. 2 people in the store plus the lady behind the counter, no one questioned it at all. I must say it was very liberating. I plan to try again this weekend. thank-you all for this site. |
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daewoomofo Regular Member
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i was talking to my neighbors grandson earlier today, part of the way through the conversation he says "youv got a pistol on you hip" i said yeah its legal to open carry" he asked " dont you need a permit" i told him that as long as you legaly own the pistol you can open carry it in michigan. he said " i didnt know that" then he started asking me about my gun. kinda cool |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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i didnt know that" then he started asking me about my gun. And that's what it's all about! Information, education, and relaxation. Good job. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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I encountered my very first OCer today! I got a call from my girl saying she saw someone OCing at the Crossing(where I was cuffed not long ago) I headed over there saw the guy talked to him a little bit, it was cool. I was just so excited to see some one else OCing! Made my day! |
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atomm Regular Member
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OC'd at the Burger King on Walton/Adams in Rochester Hills. About 20 people dinning in, no one seemed to notice. The cashier's demeanor seemed nervus/shacky. No trouble. Went to my GF's softball game at Halbac Field (located at Walton/University and Main Street - Near Great Oaks Country Club in Rochester). No one seemed to care. Pretty energetic and loose group. About 40-50 people. GF wasn't to excited about it. The people I sat down with knew I had it, even mentioned at games before the Local PD on Bike patrol would normally stop by. Didn't get a chance to meet one. All and all a good day. Atomm |
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Michigander Regular Member
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I was at a gas station on the way to work at 330 this morning, and a drugged out would be customer with a she male girlfriend was irate and screaming at the clerk for not selling them booze due to their lack of ID. He was not in the slightest way visibly intimidated by my gun when I was standing near him, but he must have seen it. He had an attitude like he wanted to start a fight, and kept at that attitude for a while after he had seen me. Maybe my gun being there stopped a violent confrontation, I'll never know. But after a while he did settle down some when his "girl" friend went home to get ID while he waited there. I considered calling the police after I had left, but I figured the clerk would use a silent alarm if she felt the need, and the guy was calming down anyway. Biggest lesson I learned there is I really should get a level 3 holster and start carrying my ASP. Looking back on it, I should have called the cops just in case he went nuts again and got violent, but it seemed like the event was over, and there were a couple large males in the station that probably would have taken him on if he got physical. Still, should have called the police. |
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DanM Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: . . . Still, should have called the police. Personally, I think your exercise of discretion was correct. The police don't need to be called out everytime, even when someone is being verbally irate. You were there, armed. There were other "large males" present. Sounds like the situation was being monitored by responsible citizens. I wouldn't say you should have called the police, unless the situation reasonably seemed to be spiraling to a physical confrontation. Less government activity (i.e., police action) in lieu of more simple lawful responsible citizen engagement is the definition and promotion of liberty. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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That was my thinking at the time as well. But what I've realised is that as much as I bash cops when due, they sure are useful when an innocent person is in danger. At the very least, this guy was probably disturbing the peace or something. And why not call on em when theres even a slight reason? Usually all that happens is we pay them to take even more money from us when me make a driving error. May as well use em on the off chance that they actually might have an opportunity to serve and protect. Plus, they would probably be able to get free drinks and snacks. Everybody wins! |
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DanM Regular Member
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Michigander wrote: That was my thinking at the time as well. But what I've realised is that as much as I bash cops when due, they sure are useful when an innocent person is in danger. At the very least, this guy was probably disturbing the peace or something. And why not call on em when theres even a slight reason? Usually all that happens is we pay them to take even more money from us when me make a driving error. May as well use em on the off chance that they actually might have an opportunity to serve and protect. Plus, they would probably be able to get free drinks and snacks. Everybody wins! But the more we call them, on things which we as responsible citizens are handling ourselves, means eventually the more staffing they require. Which means, directly, more tax money from your wallet. And which means, from a libertarian standpoint, growth of government size which is antithetical to liberty. The less we call on the government to handle that which we can handle ourselves, the better. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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Maybe during the day, but cops do next to nothing but struggle to stay awake during the night. About the Libertarian view points, my libertarianish view point is that the clerk lady should have had a gun on her hip, but she didn't. She was visibly scared, even if probably all right. It was an iffy situation to begin with. Even if 99.99% of cases like that end up with no problem, that .001% can make someone 100% dead. Always best to go with the side of caution. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Bronson wrote: LaVere wrote:I had a Kahr K-40 IWB holster Generally, in most states, no - if you can tell it is a gun, it's not concealed. What is Michigan's case law on this? |
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Cowboy5995 Regular Member
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Well after lurking around and gathering info for a while about the legality of OC. Well I open carried this morning for the first time in Kochville Twp. in Saginaw Co.. Well at about 2:45 AM I was awoken from a dead sleep by 3 street racers revving up their little ricer cars at my corner. Well I went and garbed my holster with my Springfield 1911 45. I put on my jean shorts from last night and put on my flipflops and the 45 on my belt with a completely tucked in shirt. I went out side gave 911 a nice little call and told them to send a deputy around the area for some easy money for the county. Well I went inside to try and winde down when all of a sudden I heard them come back around and line up again and they got out of their cars and were screaming at eachother. Well got on the phone with 911 again and told them I was goign outside to confront them. The operator said she would reroute the deputy who was 10 minutes away. Well I went out while they were still screaming at eachother and got their attention by reaming them about waking my mom, myself, and my girlfriend up. Just as I got to the corner they notcied my gun and I heard them wispering about it and took off. At that moemnt they took off from the stop sign like bats out of hell and thats when 2 sheriff cars came blazing down the road and caught up with them about a mile down the road. Well I turned the porch lights on and was sitting on my poarch when one of the LEOs came up with a couple young looking kids in the back. And asked for the rest of the details when the officer stopped and asked if I open carried regularly and I said this was my first time. And he complemented me on knowing my rights and he took off. Now guess what NOW I CANT GO BACK TO SLEEP. |
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Cowboy5995 Regular Member
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Sorry double post. Last edited on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 08:37 am by Cowboy5995 |
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mvpel Regular Member
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Friday evening, I was carrying openly as I usually do, and went out for dinner with my wife and son, stopped by the ice cream shop for dessert, then the gas station on the way home. As I was filling the 5-gallon cans for the lawn mower after filling the car, a beige car pulled up at the next island over and the driver greeted me, and I responded cordially. It was a beautiful evening, and I was in a good mood. Then he asked "So, what's with the gun?" and almost furtively displayed a badge over the sill of the driver's side window. I smiled and said "You, know, self-defense... no big deal." He said "Okay," and drove off as I finished filling my gas cans. Undoubtedly they ran my plates, I'll have to send in a records request about it to find out what precipitated the contact. |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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carried in city of Saint Clair at the Neiman's grocery store (used to be Farmer Jack) for about 5 minutes today. i walked past probably 15 employees between parking lot, cookie aisle and checkout. i didn't notice any one running for a manager or any undue attention. exchanged pleasantries at the checkout and left. |
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DanM Regular Member
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OC'd today for the first time on my own (OC'd once before, but at the Warren picnic). I departed Auburn Hills, where I live, to pick up my kids in Allen Park. Just mentioning this to explain the traveling you'll see from the below. On the way to Allen Park, stopped to get gas and and pop North of Southfield along Telegraph. A few customers outside at the pumps, clerk inside the convenience store. No issues. After picking up the kids in Allen Park, stopped and ate in local Taco Bell. Was there 20-30 minutes. Several customers there, and I'm sure at least a few noticed. I got up a few times for napkins, refills, get a bag for leftovers, go to bathroom, and throw away trash. No issues. Went in CVS in Rochester with kids, to pick up a few minor supplies. A few customers and two clerks there. Outside, guy getting out of his car definitely noticed. No issues. Ho-hum (as it should be). |
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Darth AkSarBen Regular Member 
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Dan, do you have CPL? I noticed you stopped for gas and a pop, and was wondering is all. |
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DanM Regular Member
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Darth AkSarBen wrote: Dan, do you have CPL? I noticed you stopped for gas and a pop, and was wondering is all. Yes. A CPL does make things a little easier for transportation (an OC'd gun is considered "concealed" when you're in your car), plus I carry my backup gun (Kel-Tec P-11) concealed always. |
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Kimberguy Regular Member
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Went in to the Airport road Meijers today to get a money order for my new sig and pick up some burger fixins. When i was getting the MO a guy, i would say about my age(early 20s) comes up to me rather speratic and no really knowing what to do; asks me if I am carrying a fire arm. I answered yes(quite obvious with a tucked in under armor shirt and an OWB holster) I let him know it was legal, which he admitted to already knowing, he grabbed 2 older men asking them what the store policy was, neither had clue, one was asking me about it, I let him know the legalities of it. He admitted he didn't know a thing on the subject. I kind of felt sorry for the younger guy, he was kinda frantic and didn't know what to do he wanted to see my CPL, but never asked for it. I was kind of amused. once I finished getting the MO I waited for few minutes when one of the older gentle men let me know there were no problems. I guess they were trying to call some one to figure it all out. no issues. Continued shopping for about 30-45 min there was one woman staring me down on her cell phone... I found that a musing because she wouldn't take her eyes off of me... but no police this time! great experience, and I thought it was handled very well by the Meijer employees who didn't really know at the time. I give two thumbs up to Airport Meijers!!! |
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DanM Regular Member
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OC'd in the Meijer's in Auburn Hills, at Joslyn and Brown. About 30-45 minutes of shopping. The clerk at checkout asked if I was law enforcement. I said no, just a citizen exercising lawful open carry. She said, "Oh yeah, I saw some picnic about that on the news." We briefly conversed, and she appeared very relaxed and sociable. A guy in line behind me said he had heard a permit was required to carry. I corrected him that a permit is required to carry concealed, but the only requirement to open carry is to legally possess the gun you carry openly. He got the look of enlightenment on his face. Priceless! (Edited for succintness.) Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 06:47 pm by DanM |
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Dansjeep2000 Regular Member
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This weekend was great, went to Tawas with the wife and OC all weekend. Walked arond the campground all weekend. 45 min. in Wal-Mart 3 times, 4 hours at Onyx Tattoo, 1hr at Mitch's pizza, countless times at Shell and Admiral gas stations. Not a single problem. When we got home we went to Wal-Mart in Flint (off Belsay) at 2am (Monday morning) no problems there. also several other places in Durand. I have yet to have anyone even question it other than freinds and family. |
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DanM Regular Member
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OC'd in the Home Depot in Orion Twp on Lapeer Rd. Several customers and employees walking around. Several noticed, but no questions except for the cashier. He asked if it was a Glock. Yep, a Glock 19. I complimented him on his basic knowledge of gun makes. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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DanM wrote: OC'd in the Home Depot in Orion Twp on Lapeer Rd. Several customers and employees walking around. Several noticed, but no questions except for the cashier. He asked if it was a Glock. Yep, a Glock 19. I complimented him on his basic knowledge of gun makes. Heh, he very well may have known what it is, but a lot of people think everything is a glock. My XD gets that comment a lot, although it is a bit hard to tell from a distance. |
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Generaldet Regular Member
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DanM wrote: OC'd in the Home Depot in Orion Twp on Lapeer Rd. Several customers and employees walking around. Several noticed, but no questions except for the cashier. He asked if it was a Glock. Yep, a Glock 19. I complimented him on his basic knowledge of gun makes. Good to know there weren't any problems there. I shop there as well. Haven't been in for a while so I haven't OC'd there yet. |
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springerdave Regular Member
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Been travelling between the Keweenaw and Kan't County most of the summer. No prob till I found two Kan't County officers that wanted to fulfill their sworn duties as Opinion Inforcment Officers. Was detained approx 1/2 hr. . disarmed by one officer and chastised by both for oc'ing. Any body care to inform me how to obtain FOIA. Never did that befor but now I feel that I should find out what is in the report, written and audio/vidio. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, springerdave. |
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DrTodd Regular Member
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I've used this website, just changing things as the particular case required. http://www.rcfp.org/foi_letter/generate.php |
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Venator Regular Member
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springerdave wrote: Been travelling between the Keweenaw and Kan't County most of the summer. No prob till I found two Kan't County officers that wanted to fulfill their sworn duties as Opinion Inforcment Officers. Was detained approx 1/2 hr. Keep us informed. Where is Kan't County or don't you want to say. |
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DickTracy1953 Regular Member
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He might mean Kent County. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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springerdave wrote: Been travelling between the Keweenaw and Kan't County most of the summer. No prob till I found two Kan't County officers that wanted to fulfill their sworn duties as Opinion Inforcment Officers. Was detained approx 1/2 hr.For what crime did they detain you, and what was their reasonable suspicion? If it was OC, did they add anything else to provide RS? |
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springerdave Regular Member
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Yes, Kent Co. Walking through park in Sparta to view the Moving Wall which was on display. Had holsterd 9mm in plain view. Hot day. Apparently some citizen(s) called in a MWG to make themselves feel safer. I asked why I was being detained, was told that I was a person of interest. Heard that one before? They couldn't come up with a crime so long story short, I got re-armed and left. |
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Sailorwatson Regular Member
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springerdave wrote: Yes, Kent Co. Walking through park in Sparta to view the Moving Wall which was on display. Had holsterd 9mm in plain view. Hot day. Apparently some citizen(s) called in a MWG to make themselves feel safer. I asked why I was being detained, was told that I was a person of interest. Heard that one before? They couldn't come up with a crime so long story short, I got re-armed and left. I have had several conversations with a couple of Kent County Deputies. They both said that they knew OC was legal and did not have a problem with it. In fact, one stated that if every one carried, then his job would be easier. I was not OC'ing because I was working as a security officer at the time. I was, however, CC'ing (legally of course, although the company I was working for might of had a problem with it if they knew). |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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springerdave wrote: Yes, Kent Co. Walking through park in Sparta to view the Moving Wall which was on display. Had holsterd 9mm in plain view. Hot day. Apparently some citizen(s) called in a MWG to make themselves feel safer. I asked why I was being detained, was told that I was a person of interest. Heard that one before? They couldn't come up with a crime so long story short, I got re-armed and left. Good for you asking why you were being detained. That’s a necessary step. They must have RS to stop and detain you (and taking your weapon is detaining you, although your having a gun, in and of itself is not RS). People who OC should strive for a short list of simple things: 1. Have a digital voice recorder with download capability, and record the whole encounter. Wal-Mart has one for about $35. Get a microphone for it for better recording quality. 2. Time the entire encounter from start to finish. (That means the second the officer approaches you. These encounters should last no more than 20 minutes.) 3. Ask the following questions, and stay on those points specifically, and explicitly. Don’t waiver from them: This should be all you say to an adversarial officer. Having a recording of the officer’s responses is helpful in that it gives you evidence backing up your side of the story (FIOA isn’t as important if you have the officer stating his RS on record). Filing a FOIA is a good idea if your up for it. If it went down like you said, then you probably have good cause for filing a complaint. If it continues after that, then you’ll possibly have grounds for a law suite. Hopefully it won’t go that far |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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springerdave wrote: Been travelling between the Keweenaw and Kan't County most of the summer. No prob till I found two Kan't County officers that wanted to fulfill their sworn duties as Opinion Inforcment Officers. Was detained approx 1/2 hr. SENT you pm on FOI ACT INFO no reply Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 11:50 pm by taxwhat |
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springerdave Regular Member
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Thanks for the info on foi, TAXWHAT. I haven't made up my mind as to file or not,yet. More later. springerdave. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Well, I just got home from the block party at the Frankenmuth Autofest. Yes, I OC'd the whole time. I started walking around 5:30. Contrary to the Frankenmuth Police Chief, who said us people won't open carry in his city, nothing really happened. The street was PACKED with people. I got a LOT of looks, and second looks, and sometimes thirds. There were tons of police all over the streets, and they all looked at me at one point or another. When I was walking past a pair of officers, I heard them talking about a man with a gun, at that same time, a gentleman in a wheel chair (who was eye level with my gun) approached the officers and pointed at me and said "That man there is carrying a sidearm." I didn't hear the response from the officers. Ruger45 was there with MrsRuger. He called me a while after I heard that, and told me that he overheard a radio conversation, that he assumed was about me. The officer on the radio pointed in the direction I went, and they said they were "on their way to take care of him" Needless to say, I got nothing but looks from the police. I even said "hey, how are you doing?" to one as he was staring at me. After we were done downtown, we walked up to Mcdonalds and let the kids play in the playplace for a while. Then we walked back through downtown to get back home. All in all, I was happy with the response (or, nonresponse) of the PD here. I expected them to at least ask me to conceal, especially after Rugers trouble with the chief. |
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Venator Regular Member
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SQLtables wrote: Well, I just got home from the block party at the Frankenmuth Autofest. Yes, I OC'd the whole time. I started walking around 5:30. Contrary to the Frankenmuth Police Chief, who said us people won't open carry in his city, nothing really happened. Well done and thanks for your courage to OC. The PD seems to have handled it just right. I am surprised they didn't talk with you, but all good signs that the word is getting out. |
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Venator Regular Member
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Error and double post. Last edited on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 04:11 pm by Venator |
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DanM Regular Member
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OC'd yesterday on the way home from work. First stop was the gas station. As soon as I stepped out the car, a guy at the next pump says, "I hope you're a law enforcement officer." His tone was just one of nervous humor, really. That opened the door to me letting him know I'm just a civilian lawfully OC'ing, and I handed him one of the copies of the information handout for Michigan, which I keep on me now at nearly all times (and I recommend everyone do, for getting the knowledge out there). I asked him to read it and pass it along to any of his friends or family he thought might be interested in the info. He was cool with it and took the information from me readily. After picking up the kids, my next stop was at the party store. Going to get my party on this weekend, ya know! Since it has a liquor license, you can't OC unless you fit the exemptions. Having a CPL, I know that technically by law and an AG's opinion I am exempt, but I wanted to ensure no gray area is there so I asked one of the employees on duty if he was fine with me OC'ing (that's another exemption: having permission from the owner or an agent of the owner). He said no problem. He asked, out of curiousity, what would happen if he said "no" to OC. I told him I would have to leave and, of course, spend my money elsewhere. |
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SIGfreed Regular Member 
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OC'ed for the first time this past weekend. Over the course of 3 days I went into 3 different convenience stores, one of them twice. Lots of people noticed my Sig 229 on my hip, but no questions or even prolonged stares. Thank you to all who monitor and post on OCDO. I have always thought OC'ing in MI was legal, but could not find any definitive information that would help me have a confident encounter with an LEO. Looking forward to a picnic/shopping trip in western Michigan. |
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LaVere Regular Member
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SIGfreed wrote: OC'ed for the first time this past weekend. Over the course of 3 days I went into 3 different convenience stores, one of them twice. Lots of people noticed my Sig 229 on my hip, but no questions or even prolonged stares. Thank you to all who monitor and post on OCDO. I have always thought OC'ing in MI was legal, but could not find any definitive information that would help me have a confident encounter with an LEO.That was because it was a SIG P229 on your hip. The preferred gun of all of us OC.  Oh! that must mean I have a P229, Yep !!!! Last edited on Mon Sep 8th, 2008 09:01 pm by LaVere |
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dougwg Regular Member
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P229 is also one of mine. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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Hmmm.. I have the p239.. I guess I'm a wierdo |
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nikon1123 Regular Member
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Just got back from having my P239 "safety inspected". We aren't wierd, SQL, we're just different. |
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SIGfreed Regular Member
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nikon1123 wrote: Just got back from having my P239 "safety inspected". We aren't weird, SQL, we're just different. The numbers don't matter, if it says Sig it is one of the finest firearms ever made and that's not weird. I also have a P232 for ccw comfort. |
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LaVere Regular Member
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School outing man carrying a gun. (me) walked by I went to my usual Hamburger joint in town. I have carried open there before. Today I got more looks than usual but no said a thing and neither did I. Later I took my dogs for a walk at Kelly lake in Burton. Some of you know that place. I walk my dogs often there. I still had my Sig p229 on the hip and a Mag holder. As I was getting out of the car I saw a lot of High school kids with nets and around the edge of the lake. Four or five of the girls saw my Golden retriever and my other black dog. They came running over wanting to pet the dogs and that was fine with me and my dogs love it.  same dog different season same location. I'm sure the kids saw the gun but no one said anything. We went our separate ways and on the way back I thought I should take some picture of the kids collecting bio samples for their class. Well you see I'm a retired photographer and I can't get over the impulse to take pictures. Now all of the student and I assumed the teacher were in one small area. Well I decided it was better to take the picture than open carry at that time so I put the p229 away and brought out the sony camera. I had fun and the school got nice pictures. I'll have other times to open carry. My pleasure my choice.  Last edited on Tue Sep 9th, 2008 09:36 pm by LaVere |
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Graydon Regular Member
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My two youngest kids go to the school immediately to the east of Kelly Lake. Honestly though a much more fun headline for your post would have been... "Open Carried at Kelly Lake, then shot a bunch of school kids and their teacher" |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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Graydon wrote: My two youngest kids go to the school immediately to the east of Kelly Lake. Honestly though a much more fun headline for your post would have been... Sorry no humor last sentence !!!!!!!!! NOT this plant this world my 0.02 cents !!! |
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DanM Regular Member
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taxwhat wrote: Graydon wrote:My two youngest kids go to the school immediately to the east of Kelly Lake. Honestly though a much more fun headline for your post would have been... You do realize he means "shot" in the photographic sense? I thought it was funny, but I will grant that some people wouldn't. It is pretty edgy humor. But I like that. |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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DanM wrote: taxwhat wrote:How about a shoot at the river frozen in time by oc ?Graydon wrote:My two youngest kids go to the school immediately to the east of Kelly Lake. Honestly though a much more fun headline for your post would have been... |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member
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DanM wrote:
HeHe! I was thinking the same thing as Tax was until I read your post. Still funny. |
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ddogge01 Regular Member
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I went for a walk with my girlfriend from our apartment in Port Huron, Michigan with my pistol in a holster on my belt for the first time. It took about 20 minutes before two cops came flying up on me in cars while we were holding hands walking on the sidewalk. They told me to keep my hands up and came up and handcuffed me and disarmed me. They asked why I had a gun and I told them that open carry is legal. They said they'll see and put me in the back of the car hand cuffed. They asked quite a few questions and had me in the car for about 10 minutes while checking with supervisors. Then I had to wait another 15 to 20 minutes after they took me out and took off the hand cuffs for them to give me my pistol back while they made sure I had no felonies. They mentioned that I was near a park and it wasn't legal to carry 1000 yards within a park. I told them I was not aware of that but didn't argue with them. I checked with the state police before carrying but wish I had found this site first and had more facts. After they cleared my name in the computer they let me go. I was pretty dissatisfied with their actions but now I am more informed and will be sure to take the documents I found on this site to their supervisors. Last edited on Wed Sep 10th, 2008 02:52 am by ddogge01 |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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ddogge01 wrote: I went for a walk with my girlfriend from are apartment in Port Huron, Michigan with my pistol in a holster on my belt for the first time. It took about 20 minutes before two cops came flying up on me in cars while we were holding hands walking on the sidewalk. Welcome to the forum. If you have not yet taken the opportunity, I recommend you read through the "MICHIGAN CARRY INFO" thread. I'm going to post the following again. I just wish I could make it my sig line here. People who OC should strive for a short list of simple things: |
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ddogge01 Regular Member
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I didn't have a chance to ask them why they were stopping me before I was handcuffed and in a patrol car. When I had a chance to speak I told them open carry was legal and did ask why I was detained. They told me they had to check with their supervisor on the legality and said they detained me because they had a man with a gun call. I don't think I should have to carry a tape recorder on me to stop the police from acting unprofessionally. Even if I had one I would have not had a chance to turn it on without getting shot or tasered. I was told to raise my hands until they cuffed me. I am making a complaint with the department supervisor tomorrow on their actions while I drop off the information from the documents on this site. There is no reason my girlfriend should have to wait for 30 minutes on the sidewalk while I spend 15 minutes in handcuffs and another 15 minutes waiting for my pistol back when they have no reason to suspect me of a crime. It is the police officers job to know the law, not mine to inform them of it. |
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DanM Regular Member
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ddogge01 wrote: . . . I am making a complaint . . . I was about to suggest you do that, after reading your first post. It sounded like you had cause. Good to know that you will step up to defend your liberty. Keep us informed on this complaint and how it goes, please. And, good on ya mate for handling your encounter calmly and peacefully, while trying to assert your rights where you had the opportunity. That's what we advocate. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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ddogge01 wrote: I didn't have a chance to ask them why they were stopping me before I was handcuffed and in a patrol car. When I had a chance to speak I told them open carry was legal and did ask why I was detained. They told me they had to check with their supervisor on the legality and said they detained me because they had a man with a gun call.Under the circumstances I don't think there is much else you could do. What I posted is just a set of general guidelines that people can follow or dismiss at their leisure. Do I think that that list is something that OC'ers should follow? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that you have to. It's nothing more than friendly advice. Your right, you shouldn't have to have a tape recorder to stop the police from acting unprofessionally. The police shouldn't even be acting unprofessionally, but that doesn't stop it from happening. Sounds like you had good presence of mind to assert your rights while not escalating the situation. Like DanM, I also applaud you for standing up for your rights both on the side of the road, and in filing a complaint. The officers you encountered may well have been ignorant of the legality of OC (they were obviously ignorant in believing that carry is illegal within 1000 ft. of a park ). Based on your recounting of events, the only thing I would expect to come of the complaint is that they will now know that OC is legal. In your complaint, you might point out that had they actually used, "an anonymous tip for a man with a gun" as reasonable suspicion, it could potentially make the case difficult, as the gun in and of itself is not RS for a Terry Stop. I appoligize if I came accross as criticizing you (or your actions), as it wasn't my intention since it actually sounds like you handled it well. |
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SIGfreed Regular Member
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ddogge01 wrote: I went for a walk with my girlfriend from our apartment in Port Huron, Michigan with my pistol in a holster on my belt for the first time. It took about 20 minutes before two cops came flying up on me in cars while we were holding hands walking on the sidewalk. Were these state, county, or city LEO's? |
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Bronson Regular Member
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Welcome ddogge01 I'm sorry to hear of your experience. I'm from Port Huron and go back to visit occasionally. I would be very interested in reading how this all turns out for you. Again, sorry for what you and your girlfriend had to go through but it sounds like you handled it well. Bronson Last edited on Wed Sep 10th, 2008 07:58 am by Bronson |
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Venator Regular Member
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ddogge01 wrote:
THIS is just plain wrong. You carry carry in a public park. This is a very bad LEO interaction, a complaint is in order. As for a recorder, have your girl friend have it and turn it on, at least you could have recorded some of it. |
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dougwg Regular Member
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Venator wrote: ddogge01 wrote: Third party.....I'm not sure thats a good idea. |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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dougwg wrote: Venator wrote:ddogge01 wrote: A photo is worth 1000 words and need only be authenticated as it reflect as it was as to content and time .Audio and video as long as authenticated as untempered are priceless ! |
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ddogge01 Regular Member
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They were city police. I went to the station today and asked to speak to the Chief and they told me I had to speak to the supervisor that was on duty at the time of the incident first, and then move up from there if I am not satisfied with his response. The supervisor is not in again until Friday and I will let you know what happens then. I did leave the copies of the documents from this site along with copies of the information from the State Police web site and asked that they share it with the rest of the officers. I'm pretty easy going, I don't want to get anybody in trouble, I just want them to be aware of the legality of open carry and that they can't put somebody in hand cuffs when they are not under suspicion of committing a crime. I just don't want it to happen again. The main problem seems to be the lack of knowledge of the law, even though some of the comments made by the officers appeared that they were trying to strongly persuade me to not open carry again after they found out that is was legal. I will also bring up that concern when I speak to the supervisor. Last edited on Wed Sep 10th, 2008 09:08 pm by ddogge01 |
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ddogge01 Regular Member
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Thank you everyone for the information, support, and advice. It is certainly appreciated. |
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Patrick Regular Member 
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In my opinion, I think that alot of police officers got that job for mainly three reasons. Reason number one - To wear a badge that signifies authority and commands respect. Reason number two - To carry a gun proudly displayed on ones hip which signifies you better not mess with me or you're gonna have some BIG problems. Reason number three - To drive as fast as you want with little or no chance of getting in trouble. Now I'm not saying that to disrespect law enforcement or diminish their role as guardians of our safety and well-being. I appreciate what they do for us and respect their courage to go out every day and protect all of us from the nasty criminals who wish to deprive us of our valuables and in some cases our very lives. After watching "The Academy" on Fox Reality Channel I have dreams of moving to California and joining the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department myself. Which is probably the only way to legally carry a loaded firearm in California. (By being in law enforcement) I think in a sense, police officers feel that ordinary citizens who openly carry firearms are trying to make other citizens think that they are leo's and that upsets them. For any Joe Schmoe in the state of Michigan to strap on a gun without any formal training probably feels like a slap in the face after all of their hard work and training. However, that's not good enough reason to illegally detain and/or arrest an otherwise law-abiding citizen. Or to chastise people for exercising their rights. One of these days I'm gonna sneak away from the CC group and start OC'ing. First steps are baby steps right? I OC'ed once at a gas station after observing a Jackson County Sheriff car going at least 60 MPH on West Ave near Franklin with lights on but no siren. I think the speed limit through there is 30 MPH with houses lining both sides of the street. Anyways about ten minutes later I'm rolling into the gas station on W. Michigan Ave near the airport and I see a Sheriff's car in the parking lot. Naturally I'm curious as to what was happening a few minutes ago so I was gonna ask him. As I walked through the parking lot I wondered to myself about the whole disclosure thing when talking to LEO's while CC'ing. I thought that would be kinda weird. "Hi officer, I have a gun and I was wondering why the police were haulin' ass down West Ave a few minutes ago." So as I approached the door I uncovered my model 21 45 caliber Glock by tucking my Polo shirt between my gun and my khaki's instead of covering it up. As I walked toward the pop cooler to grab a soda the cop looked directly at me from down the aisle. I thought I was gonna pass out. My heart was about to beat it's way outta my chest. I'm not really sure why cuz I know I was completely legal. Anyways, I grab a pop and step into line right next to the officer and ask him what was going on over by West Ave a few minutes ago. He explained that someone called in a report of breaking and entering at a nearby business and that it was him flying down West Ave at a high rate of speed. A little more small talk talk and he was out the door. I'm not sure if he noticed my sidearm or not. He never said anything about it. Patrick |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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Open carried at Part 1 of my 3 part CPL class tonight. Wore my "Did You Know?" shirt and passed out ALL the info i had with me. What an awesome experience. Students asked a ton of questions regarding OC, and i was allowed class time to answer. It was GREAT! NO negative issues at all. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote:Open carried at Part 1 of my 3 part CPL class tonight. Wore my "Did You Know?" shirt and passed out ALL the info i had with me. What an awesome experience. Students asked a ton of questions regarding OC, and i was allowed class time to answer. It was GREAT! NO negative issues at all. That made me smile. I'm glad it seemed to be a positive experience. Kinda funny you promoted OC at a CONCEALED pistol class. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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SQLtables wrote: warlockmatized wrote:Long time family friend giving the class. I "told" him in advance i would be OC'ing. I didn't ask for permission, and he didn't mind. |
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SQLtables Regular Member
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warlockmatized wrote:SQLtables wrote:warlockmatized wrote:Long time family friend giving the class. I "told" him in advance i would be OC'ing. I didn't ask for permission, and he didn't mind. That makes it a bit easier, but still, good job! |
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DrTodd Regular Member
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OC'd w/ my Glock 23 in a Fobus holster at Mr. Burger (45 minutes) and Family Fare (45 minutes) on Lake Mich. Drive and the City of Grand Rapids Water Department (25 minutes) in Grand Rapids and at the Consumer's Energy Payment Center in Wyoming. No problems, no one payed any attention to me as far as I know. |
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rppalm Regular Member
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I am glad I found this web site. I have known for years that open carry was legal but was told by many police officers years ago that they would make it very difficult if I tried. This was back in 1980. Obtained a CCW about 5 yrs ago and didnt think too much about OC. After I read all the stories I began OC every day everywhere here in Linden for about the past 3 weeks. Not a peep from anyone. Today I was having breakfast at Shirleys and the Chief of Police walked in with another LEO. He saw me and the side arm. Not a peep or a surprised look. I feel I am just doing my part to desensitize the locals to OC. Where can I join Open Carry.Org? |
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Venator Regular Member
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rppalm wrote: I am glad I found this web site. I have known for years that open carry was legal but was told by many police officers years ago that they would make it very difficult if I tried. This was back in 1980. Obtained a CCW about 5 yrs ago and didnt think too much about OC. After I read all the stories I began OC every day everywhere here in Linden for about the past 3 weeks. Not a peep from anyone. Today I was having breakfast at Shirleys and the Chief of Police walked in with another LEO. He saw me and the side arm. Not a peep or a surprised look. I feel I am just doing my part to desensitize the locals to OC. Where can I join Open Carry.Org? Well done and welcome. If you would it helps our membership if you add the city and state to your profile. Thanks and welcome again. |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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rppalm wrote: I am glad I found this web site. I have known for years that open carry was legal but was told by many police officers years ago that they would make it very difficult if I tried. This was back in 1980. Obtained a CCW about 5 yrs ago and didnt think too much about OC. After I read all the stories I began OC every day everywhere here in Linden for about the past 3 weeks. Not a peep from anyone. Today I was having breakfast at Shirleys and the Chief of Police walked in with another LEO. He saw me and the side arm. Not a peep or a surprised look. I feel I am just doing my part to desensitize the locals to OC. Where can I join Open Carry.Org? Hi and welcome |
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mitunnelrat Regular Member
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ddogge01 wrote: They were city police. I went to the station today and asked to speak to the Chief and they told me I had to speak to the supervisor that was on duty at the time of the incident first, and then move up from there if I am not satisfied with his response. The supervisor is not in again until Friday and I will let you know what happens then. I haven't checked this thread for a while, and while I don't find your situation funny, I did get a chuckle reading it since I just emailed the info packet to that same police chief. PHPD may just get the message yet! FWIW, I also sent the packet to the chief of the Marysville PD and to the St. Clair County Sheriff Department. |
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Mighty Opt-Out Member 
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ddogge01 wrote: I went for a walk with my girlfriend from our apartment in Port Huron, Michigan with my pistol in a holster on my belt for the first time. It took about 20 minutes before two cops came flying up on me in cars while we were holding hands walking on the sidewalk.It's good to see some locals on the board. What park were you near? |
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DanM Regular Member
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OC'd in my local Wal-Mart and Circuit City the other day. No questions asked, no invitations to leave the premises, no scared people running out the doors screaming. Just as things should be. I was OC'ing last night and stopped at the local convenience store I patronize. The owner, whom I am familiar with, was at first disbelieving about open carry being legal. He said his CPL instructor specifically said open carry is illegal. Of course I told him the instructor was wrong, and there have been several reports of such misinformed instructors out there. I gave him one of the copies of the handouts I keep on hand. He seemed very interested in reading it, and he mentioned that Auburn Hills cops stop by often and he was going to show them the material and ask about it. I can't say I converted the owner from unbeliever to believer during that encounter, but he has the material, he stated he was curious to ask questions about it, and he's a smart guy. He'll figure it out I'm sure. |
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smellslikemichigan Regular Member
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i open carried in Saint Clair today (that's city of saint clair, not saint clair shores, for those unfamiliar): 1. Lumberjack hardware store: 15 minutes at the lumber counter discussing cost/material cost to replace my front door screen. quit a few people and employees around and no one seemed to notice/care 2. went into convenience store for a water. cashier noticed gun and said, "no firearms allowed in here." i started to cover up my gun when he smiled and said, "just kidding." then he asked, "what do you do?" to which i replied, "i'm just a regular guy?" he asked if i worked for a police or government agency and i said no. i told him i worked in the security industry (i do system installations). i told him that i don't carry openly on the job. he said, "don't you have to cover your gun?" i told him that open carry was legal in michigan. he was very surprised and said that he didn't know that, but that he was thinking about getting a CPL. i proceeded to give him a 20 minute "course" in the legality of open carry. i don't carry any of the handouts with me, but i wrote down this website for him. as i was walking out, he was going over to his computer to check it out. another informed citizen! 3. Neiman's grocery store: 15 minutes shopping for the ingredients for the deer roast i'm thawing for tomorrow. no one seemed to notice. 4. Saint Clair Riverside Plaza: i figured i should grab a cup of coffee and so i headed "downtown." when i got there, i noticed that there was a craft show, so instead of heading straight for the coffee shop, i walked from one end of the plaza to the other to peruse the wares. it was uneventful and i did not buy any smelly candles. 5. Sue's Coffee shop: 15 minutes in line for coffee, i guess the rain and the craft show had the place packed today. the coffee is worth the wait though. there were people in line behind me and maybe 10 customers seated on my gun side. no one noticed or was concerned. the owner walked by a couple times, but nothing was said. walked back down to my truck on the sidewalk, gun side to N Riverside Ave (AKA M29) to allow plenty of time for MWG calls. i'd hate to give the impression of fleeing the scene Last edited on Sat Sep 13th, 2008 07:50 pm by smellslikemichigan |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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ddogge01 wrote: They were city police. I went to the station today and asked to speak to the Chief and they told me I had to speak to the supervisor that was on duty at the time of the incident first, and then move up from there if I am not satisfied with his response. The supervisor is not in again until Friday and I will let you know what happens then....May I suggest you start a separate thread for keeping us updated on this situation? I'd like to stay updated on it, but think it would be easier to follow if it had it's own thread. |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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Another good day! Stopped into Ponderosa to get some wing-dings, spoke to the manager...Marty... he has no problem with guns in the business. "We have cops and detectives in here all the time, I don't see why you can't if it's legal." I explained to him that it is legal without any permit and to possibly expect to see more of it. He said he has no problem as long as there is no trouble. I also stopped by Tractor Supply and was approached by two guys, one of which wanted to know why I didn't have my gun covered. He had just got his cpl, you want to guess what he was told! I gave them both a packet and as he left, he took out a little auto from his pocket and clipped it on his belt. Another enlightened individual. |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member
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WARCHILD wrote: as he left, he took out a little auto from his pocket and clipped it on his belt. Another enlightened individual. Nice job Jerry! Another one turned to the right path! The only issue I can see creeping up for this guy is his possible not knowing what all the rules are. But Im sure he has educatd himself by now, or has started! |
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WARCHILD Regular Member
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He should be. I tell everyone to read the packet, then read it again. Then if they feel they can confidently defend themselves during an encounter, go ahead and oc. |
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Spyder6510 Regular Member
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I did my first open carry today and as most people say I was a pretty nervous. I work afternoons in Highland Park so for the most part I don't run across a lot of people but this is how the day went... I stopped for gas on the way in and had no issues since I am not sure anyone saw the gun or even me, then at work I left the holster on (no guns allowed) but I had about four people make comments on the holster. For lunch I went to a local carryout place and I know a few people saw it but no one said anything, since I was the only Caucasian I assume people thought I was a LEO. After work I went to the Meijer's by my house and saw that some of the employees looked but I was never approached or anything, I finished my shopping and left without incident... I must say that I own it ALL to this site, I heard about an OC picnic in the St Clair Shores and after doing research I found the site. I feel that you're doing a great job and I'm trying to learn as much of the laws as I can so that I can fully (and intelligently) educate anyone that asks questions. |
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warlockmatized Regular Member
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Spyder6510 wrote: I did my first open carry today and as most people say I was a pretty nervous. I work afternoons in Highland Park so for the most part I don't run across a lot of people but this is how the day went... I stopped for gas on the way in and had no issues since I am not sure anyone saw the gun or even me, then at work I left the holster on (no guns allowed) but I had about four people make comments on the holster. For lunch I went to a local carryout place and I know a few people saw it but no one said anything, since I was the only Caucasian I assume people thought I was a LEO. After work I went to the Meijer's by my house and saw that some of the employees looked but I was never approached or anything, I finished my shopping and left without incident... I must say that I own it ALL to this site, I heard about an OC picnic in the St Clair Shores and after doing research I found the site. I feel that you're doing a great job and I'm trying to learn as much of the laws as I can so that I can fully (and intelligently) educate anyone that asks questions.Good for you on popping your ummm.....well you know I am glad you had a chance to see for yourself what does NOT happen. When you get a chance please click the my account button on the upper right. Update your location to reflect Michigan. Remember you MUST select country first then you can select your state. Carry often, carry open, carry safe. |
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taxwhat Regular Member
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Hi and welcome |
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LaVere Regular Member
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My Open gun is small and very hard to see. Then add middle age bulge, generally loose shirt, but tucked in. No one will ever see it. If I want to just carry for protection not a problem but if I want to make a statement. I should dress and carry like the photo.  "Hey Poncho! Hey Cisco! " Fade to black as riding in to the sun set laughing. |
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Venator Regular Member
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LaVere wrote: My Open gun is small and very hard to see. Then add middle age bulge, generally loose shirt, but tucked in. No one will ever see it. If I want to just carry for protection not a problem but if I want to make a statement. I should dress and carry like the photo. I only dress like that on the weekends. |
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Michigander Regular Member
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Well, I’ve got another Arizona story for you guys. I got stopped by the cops last night. I was going to get some stuff out of my car, and it was late. About 10:30. I decided I wanted to stay up late reading since I didn’t have to work today, and I remembered that I left some tools in the back seat of my car, not the best thing to leave visible at an apartment parking lot, so I went to get them. Well, 2 cops in an unmarked car see me doing this, get out of the car, and tell me to show them my hands, keeping their hands on their holstered sidearms while telling me this. I was decidedly jittery from drinking some mountain dew so I could stay up and read, and that didn’t help things. But I wasn’t nervous, and I didn’t appear that way either. Just jittery. At first I was in the car so they didn’t see my gun, but I quickly told them I had a gun on my hip before I got out with my hands at about shoulder level. They asked if I was breaking into the car, and asked to see ID. It’s a stop and ID state here in Arizona, and they expressed reasonable suspicion that I was burglarizing the car (hard to do to your own car) since I was in the back seat rummaging about, so I showed them. Of course they disarmed me, and the one cop took my gun and unloaded it, and told me it was a nice gun. He also expressed concerns that as much grease and oil as I had on there could mess up the primers, but anyone who has done their home work know that’s not true. What’s funny is I think the very fact I was open carrying put their minds at ease. I informed them that I also had a pocket knife, a 6” bladed one at that, and they didn’t care. I expected to at least be patted down, I mean it was a Terry stop by anyone’s definition. They asked me if I did drugs, and they asked me repeatedly if I had just broken into the car, and when I told them to run the vin #, they finally said they believed me, and left it at that. I think more than anything they were probably asking me this stuff to avoid them looking like total idiots for stopping me. As we here know, very few, if any criminals open carry, and I’m sure they know it too. They explained that there have been a lot of break-ins not too far from there, almost like they were trying to be apologetic, but not really. I’m kind of pissed off that they bothered me for being in my own car, but I guess they had some form of reasonable, articulate- able suspicion. What I regret not doing is getting their names, ranks, and badge numbers, just for my own personal records. Next time I won’t forget, even if it’s late and I’m full of caffeine. |
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Titanium Girl Regular Member 
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If it was a real burglar breaking into your car would you rather have them pass it by? It's not like they really gave you problems, they were only trying to protect the vehicle. Did they not ask for the registration to the car and your ID? Surely the names would have matched. Whine, whine whine....* Last edited on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 05:58 pm by Titanium Girl |
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Michigander Regular Member
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Just so everyone knows, Titanium girl is a friend of mine, and I showed her this thread over yahoo. She does bring up a good point about the registration, but the thing was that I left it in my apartment. |
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Titanium Girl Regular Member
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OH great. You blew my cover when I was trying to be mean to you. Dangit. |
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ghostrider Regular Member
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I can completely accept their RS for the stop. They saw what they believed might be a burglary in progress. Titanium Girl's argument has merit up to a point. Yes, them investigating the situation was reasonable. However, once the investigation proved you were the lawful owner (simply checking your DL and vehicle registration would have been sufficient), then that should have been th | |||||||||