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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 04:56 pm |
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************************************************************
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
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OpenCarry.org Press Release – June 14, 2008
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OpenCarry.org calls on greater Milwaukee, WI prosecutors and police chiefs to end their official oppression policy of harassing, falsely arresting, and confiscating guns from open carriers
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Back in 2006, in response to a question on concealed carry legislation, Governor Doyle said such laws don't make sense. 'If you want to wear a gun, wear it on your hip,' Doyle said, patting his hip." Lake Delton - Governor Jim Doyle during a Capitol day in Sauk and Columbia counties promised tourism . . . Governor Doyle visits Dell, Wisconsin Dells, March 11, 2006. A copy of this new report is attached.
Doyle correctly pointed out that in Wisconsin, like most states, it is completely legal to openly carry a holstered handgun on foot without any license. And that the traditional public policy concern is about CONCEALED carry, not the honorable and peaceful open carry of guns.
But not Milwaukee.
In Milwaukee, police and prosecutors will unlawfully arrest open carriers on bogus charges (which are never formally filed) and seize their guns without receipt and never return it.
Case in point is Hispanic Milwaukee resident XXXX Gonzalez, home tel. # XXX-XXX-XXXX. XXXX was arrested in mid may, never charged, and they won't give him his gun back even though all he was doing was **legally openly carrying** his handgun. In other words, he was just obeying the law and not concealing his gun.
Wisconsin is one of only 2 states to have no concealed handgun permit program, so the only way to carry a handgun in Wisconsin is to do so openly.
Open Carry not a problem in the states where it has become popular
Here is an audio recording of a police spokesman in urban Richmond, VA at http://tinyurl.com/6dvg5d explaining this past week that a police response to a man openly carrying a gun on a bus was handled routinely only to determine that he was legally OPENLY carrying the gun, and stating that police have no problem with the growing number of open carriers - that unlawful concealed carriers are their concern. Interestingly, United States Supreme Court has already said that police cannot detain or search anyone based merely on a 911 call or other report that he is carrying a gun. Florida v. J.L., 529 U.S. 266 (2000).
An FBI study recently documented that, essentially, bad guys don't open carry, or even wear holsters: Anthony Pinizzotto, et al., Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers, FBI (2006) (finding that violent criminals carefully "conceal" their guns and "eschew holsters"), summary available at http://www.forcesciencenews.com/home/detail.html?serial=62.
In 2004 Virginia's legislature fortified its state firearms preemption law by eliminating gradfathered local gun bans. A news report at the time from urbanized Arlington County, adjacent to and formally part of Washington DC, noted that under the law, it would be legal for gang members to walk around with a guns [sic] visibly swinging from their belts. But [Matt] Martin, the Arlington County police spokesman, said police officers were not particularly concerned about gang members following the law. "We're not worried about a gang member legally using a gun we're worried about a gang member illegally using a gun," he said. "Criminals who are going to use firearms aren't going to follow the law anyway." David Harrison, VA: Gun Owners Emboldened by New Laws, Connection Newspapers, July 22, 2004 (emphasis added), snips of article available at http://www.jonathanmark.com/Blog/1100620473.
Civil rights lawsuits possible against greater Milwaukee localities, police officers, and officials
If the greater Milwaukee law enforcement leadership don't get their act together soon, they may face federal civil rights law suits similar to those filed and about to filed in Pennsylvania for violation of Constitutional rights of open carriers under the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments. See one recent Section 1983 complaint filed and associated news reports at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/11874.html.
Mike Stollenwerk
##########################
Contact anytime on gun stories:
Mike Stollenwerk/John Pierce
(XXX) XXX-XXXX
http://www.OpenCarry.org
A growing national Internet community with more than 7,000 registered members
News media reports citing OpenCarry.org's perspective: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum63
##########################
Attachment: Governor Doyle says wear gun openly on your hip.pdf (Downloaded 84 times) Last edited on Mon Jun 16th, 2008 08:31 pm by Mike
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sccrref
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 05:34 pm |
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| Great article. I hope that it helps them open their eyes or be prepared to open the states wallet. Hopefully it will do some good for those of us exercising our rights.
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Mr. Greg
Campaign Veteran
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 07:08 pm |
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Great release. Here's hoping it gets us more attention.
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smithman
Regular Member
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 08:18 pm |
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Thanks Mike. Great letter.
The movement here is growing...now lets keep it moving along.
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SicSemperTyrannis
Regular Member
| Joined: | Thu Jun 29th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 08:52 pm |
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| Mike: When you send out press releases like this, do you send them only to media, or do you also send them to the police department(s) and district attorneys offices as well?
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Mike
Super Moderator
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Posted: Sat Jun 14th, 2008 08:57 pm |
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SicSemperTyrannis wrote: Mike: When you send out press releases like this, do you send them only to media, or do you also send them to the police department(s) and district attorneys offices as well? I send to my relatively limited media and gun rights groups list - subsequent re-postings around the country tend to make theri ways into the public sphere as well.
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Statkowski
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 12:48 am |
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Can you file private criminal complaints against the offending police officers in Wisconsin?
There has to be some recourse available through the court system.
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Shotgun
Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 03:41 am |
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| Perhaps one could file a complaint with the WI DOJ Public Integrity Unit
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apjonas
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 05:48 am |
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| Why is the ethnicity of the individual relevant? Why publish his name and phone number to the media (you're not doing it here)? Instead of "bogus" charges, why not list the exact offense alleged? I assume this is a draft and will be cleaned up before it is released - a few errors that would detract from the impact. If you like, I'd be glad to have a go at editing for your review.
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Parabellum
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 07:59 am |
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apjonas there isn't anything wrong with the letter except that he spelled my last name wrong.
edit: NVM he fixed it, its perfect.
Last edited on Sun Jun 22nd, 2008 11:41 am by Parabellum
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Rick Finsta
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 01:36 pm |
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That's okay, though, Parabellum. I mean I'm still not sure if it was Andres Vegas or Andres Vargas that beat the CCW charges last year: the papers spelled it interchangeably... 
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Chris Meissen
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 04:27 pm |
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Mr. Gonzales should be encouraged to report his gun stolen. He should file the report with both the Milwaukee police dept. and the BATFE. If the gun was confiscated and no charges filed then the gun was stolen.
On the missouricarry.com site a short while back, one of the visitors reported having his Glock "confiscated" from his parked vehicle at the Kansas City International Airport. It was being legally transported at the time that the "security" police demanded to search his trunk. The "security", moonlighting K.C.P.D. officers, confiscated the gun. When he sought a receipt, it was denied. Supervisors denied any knowledge of the confiscation. He filed a theft report with BATFE. Gun was suddenly magically discovered and returned although minus its night sights.
He might also talk to an attorney about filing a lawsuit under the federal civil rights act, i.e., "anyone who denies rights under color of law."
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desert-prospector
Regular Member
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Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 06:50 pm |
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Chris Meissen wrote: Mr. Gonzales should be encouraged to report his gun stolen. He should file the report with both the Milwaukee police dept. and the BATFE. If the gun was confiscated and no charges filed then the gun was stolen.
I have to agree with Chris here.
I had a situation when I was still in Indianapolis, I had a CCW and carried 3 at the time along with some friends. We had a costume party at a partners house and decided to go to the park a few blocks away (walking), an off duty state police officer thought we looked threating so he called for back-up.
The responding officers were deputies that we all knew as we were volunteer firemen in the area. The off duty state officer was the only one to pull a weapon on us and the only one that confiscated some (not all of our weapons). He put 'em in his vehicle trunk, lectured us while most of the deputies were trying not to laugh and then released us, no charges.
The next day we went to the state police headquarters to retrieve our property and they had no record of it. We asked to speak with the Chief, he took us out to the officers car, with the officer, made him open his trunk and to everyones surprise, it was full of confiscated weapons.
To sum it up, we got our property, he was reprimanded and investigated. Found out he was selling the stuff on his time.
Sorry this was so long, but I had to build it.
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WIG19
Regular Member
| Joined: | Tue May 27th, 2008 |
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Posted: Mon Jun 16th, 2008 04:24 pm |
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Statkowski wrote: Can you file private criminal complaints against the offending police officers in Wisconsin?
There has to be some recourse available through the court system.
I would imagine that you would have to file a complaint with the DA's office & request they press criminal charges - if they will. Likely the entire polar ice cap (and Gore with it) will melt by time you hear anything. That is certainly why a civil suit was the path taken by the folks in Dickson City, PA.
I think it would be worth folks tracking to see how/if the OC.org news release propagates. Bottom line still has two things as goal IMO:
- Because of awareness and proactive approaches OC becomes a non-issue; a right suffering prior-restraint from exercise is a right lost.
- Some who care not for the visual of citizens with a gun "on their hip" will speak a bit louder and there will be that much more support for a PPA so we can put those things away so some people don't have to look at them.
(RickFinsta: It was Andres Vegas.)
EDIT: Nothing wrong with paring it down and submitting it. Here are the MJS guidelines.
http://www2.jsonline.com/news/editorials/submit.asp
Last edited on Mon Jun 16th, 2008 04:31 pm by WIG19
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MontanaLaura
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 16th, 2008 06:43 pm |
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desert-prospector wrote:
I have to agree with Chris here.
I had a situation when I was still in Indianapolis, I had a CCW and carried 3 at the time along with some friends. We had a costume party at a partners house and decided to go to the park a few blocks away (walking), an off duty state police officer thought we looked threating so he called for back-up.
The responding officers were deputies that we all knew as we were volunteer firemen in the area. The off duty state officer was the only one to pull a weapon on us and the only one that confiscated some (not all of our weapons). He put 'em in his vehicle trunk, lectured us while most of the deputies were trying not to laugh and then released us, no charges.
The next day we went to the state police headquarters to retrieve our property and they had no record of it. We asked to speak with the Chief, he took us out to the officers car, with the officer, made him open his trunk and to everyones surprise, it was full of confiscated weapons.
To sum it up, we got our property, he was reprimanded and investigated. Found out he was selling the stuff on his time.
Sorry this was so long, but I had to build it.
Howdy!
That wasn't long. If you don't tell the whole story, people end up with questions in their minds.....so don't apologize! He should have been fired and mandated to reimburse the owners of the guns he had already sold. What did happen to him?
MTLaura
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desert-prospector
Regular Member
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Posted: Mon Jun 16th, 2008 07:45 pm |
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MontanaLaura wrote: desert-prospector wrote:
I have to agree with Chris here.
I had a situation when I was still in Indianapolis, I had a CCW and carried 3 at the time along with some friends. We had a costume party at a partners house and decided to go to the park a few blocks away (walking), an off duty state police officer thought we looked threating so he called for back-up.
The responding officers were deputies that we all knew as we were volunteer firemen in the area. The off duty state officer was the only one to pull a weapon on us and the only one that confiscated some (not all of our weapons). He put 'em in his vehicle trunk, lectured us while most of the deputies were trying not to laugh and then released us, no charges.
The next day we went to the state police headquarters to retrieve our property and they had no record of it. We asked to speak with the Chief, he took us out to the officers car, with the officer, made him open his trunk and to everyones surprise, it was full of confiscated weapons.
To sum it up, we got our property, he was reprimanded and investigated. Found out he was selling the stuff on his time.
Sorry this was so long, but I had to build it.
Howdy!
That wasn't long. If you don't tell the whole story, people end up with questions in their minds.....so don't apologize! He should have been fired and mandated to reimburse the owners of the guns he had already sold. What did happen to him?
MTLaura
Last we heard he was demoted from sgt. to patrol. That's the last we heard.
We did see him in our neighborhood a few times after that. He didn't look to happy  .
What really got us, was he didn't take all our weapons. Guess he was selective by value? I was carrying 3 at the time and he only took 2, my 1911 in a shoulder rig, my Charter Arms security six in my belt, but he let me keep the 38 on my ankle. Also had a buck folder, bowie and some throwing stars. He didn't even touch 'em.
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Sheriff
Regular Member
| Joined: | Mon May 19th, 2008 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 05:19 pm |
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If the department allowed him to continue being a member of their department, you see the problem, right?
Who's going to police the police, anybody?
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ScottyT
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 05:37 pm |
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I especially liked the link to the summary or the FBI study, so much good/scary stuff:
Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows.
none of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law--federal, state or local--that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership. They just laughed at gun laws."
These first two are great fodder to use against the antis.
More than 80% "regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year ....... victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this "may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills," the study says
Again, good argument to use against the Brady Bunch types. After all, only cops are trained enough to carry firearms! (no cop bashing here, just anti bashing)
"Offenders typically displayed no moral or ethical restraints in using firearms," the report states. "In fact, the street combat veterans survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.
He who hesitates... gets a cap in their ass...
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Pointman
Regular Member
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Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 05:40 pm |
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Actually, shouldn't he face not only the same charges a normal citizen would face, which would include jail and possibly prison time, but also charges for denial of citizens' Constitutional rights, plus be fired?
I'm not one for firing officers because they make an honest mistake, by any means--officers do have a difficult job. Stealing weapons and then selling stolen weapons is a federal offense, if I'm not mistaken, and that surely isn't a simple, honest mistake.
Where is the justice? Where is the court system? Where is the media coverage?
When the Columbine, Colorado shootings happened, I was there, and so was the media, and the stories coming out of the little town topped the news coverage for a long time. Chicago's corrupt police department gets busted, and I have to read a buried article in the newspaper. What has this country come to?
Through all of this, where are the police unions calling for the cleanup of the department? Aren't the police supposed to enforce the law? Where is police honesty, integrity, and pride?
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Thanks Mike for picking up the story and fighting for everyone's rights.Last edited on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 05:41 pm by Pointman
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WIG19
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Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 05:53 pm |
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Pointman wrote: ...where are the police unions calling for the cleanup of the department?
You're usually not going to find service improvement-driven measures in the mission statement of a union (regardless of profession) unless it's something that has a primary outcome of enhancing the life of their member. The union's charter will get exercised to protect their members when someone ELSE comes a calling for a cleanup. Again, this isn't just police unions I'm talking about. Follow the money.
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pbridges
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 05:15 am |
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| Could the owner of the gun not take the officer to small claims court file for cost of replacement of gun and exspences etc. for the illegal confiscation.
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Parabellum
Founder's Club Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 07:44 pm |
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Why replacement? They have it and the best I could do is get it back, but they will just make me go thru the process of petitioning the court for return of property as I already did. Regardless this whole situation is a violation of due process, they take my gun without a warrant, justification, or explaining to a Judge what they did, but I have to go thru a legal process to get it back? This situation wont stand for too much longer, this statute is unconstitutional when you realize how possessions enter into police custody(theft).
Last edited on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 07:44 pm by Parabellum
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S.E.WI
Regular Member
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Posted: Fri Aug 29th, 2008 12:43 am |
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The following site might be worth a try:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/civilrts.htm
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