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sv_libertarian State Researcher 
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Many thanks to Lonnie Wilson for his help with this. I wrote most of the questions and he provided the answers. This effort is more his work than mine. 1) Where can I carry in Washington? Washington State follows british legal tradition, which states that anything that is not proscribed as unlawful is lawful. So the real question is where can you NOT carry in Washington. 1.There are four main state statutes that one must be cognizant of: RCW 9.41.050 (Carrying Firearms), RCW 9.41.280 (Carry on School Grounds), RCW 9.41.300 (Weapons Prohibited in Certain Places), and RCW 70.108.150 (Firearms in Outdoor Music Festivals). It is your responsibility to read and understand the definitions and exceptions in the law. RCW 9.41.050 is the primary law which affects gun carrying on a day to day basis. This law makes it unlawful for one to conceal a pistol without a concealed pistol license (hereinafter called CPL), and also makes it unlawful for one to carry a loaded pistol in any vehicle, whether it be openly carried or concealed carried unless a person has a valid CPL. Loaded is defined as having ammunition inside of the gun itself (magazine inserted with ammunition with semi-auto, ammunition in cylinder for revolvers). Localities may also prohibit the carrying of handguns in the stadiums and convention centers that they operate, however they MUST exempt those who possess a concealed pistol license. There are also federal statutes you must be cognizant of: 18USC922(q), which prohibit the carrying of a handgun within 1000 feet of a school unless you are licensed to carry or meet another exemption to this law. The constitutionality of this law is questionable in light of United States v. Lopez and District of Columbia v. Heller. To our knowledge, there has been no prosecutions of this law where this is the sole charge. 18USC930, which prohibit the carrying of firearms in any "federal facility" or any "federal court facility". Because of the possible myriad legal issues that may arise, in terms of the possible accusation of concealment, carrying in one's car, as well as 18USC922(q), it is highly recommended that any person who open carries in the State of Washington acquire a CPL. 2) How do I acquire a CPL? If you are a resident of Washington, it depends on whether or not you live in a city. If you live in an incorporated city, you can apply either to your city police department, or your county sheriff. If you live in unincorporated territory, you must apply to the sheriff only. They have 30 days to issue or deny a license. If you are NOT a resident of Washington State, you may apply to any jurisdiction that you choose. If you do not possess a Washington Drivers License, Washington State ID, or have proof that you've been a resident of Washington for at least 90 days (such as a utility bill), the issuer may take up to 60 days to issue. The license cost is currently $36 dollars plus the FBI fingerprint check fee (currently $19.25), which adds up to $55.25. A Washington State CPL is valid for 5 years. Renewing the license costs $32, and a late renewal (within 90 days of expiration) is $42. If a renewal is more than 90 days late, it must be filed as a new application. We understand that there is some substantial compliance issues with the police departments (though not any sheriffs that we've heard of) in accepting applications during normal business hours. This is unlawful, however this has not been challenged. We do not know of any sheriffs office that is currently restricting the application times for CPL's, and we recommend going to the Sheriff's office if you have any issues with your police department. If you are a non-citizen of the United States (such as a permanent resident alien), you must have an Alien Firearms License to apply for a CPL. An AFL is required to even possess a firearm in Washington, however these are not currently issued by the Department of Licensing due to a background check issue with the FBI. This law is likely unconstitutional, and should be challenged. Washington also has a reciprocity law for non-residents of the state. For an updated list, please refer to: http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=7772 Of the states listed, the State of Utah is the only state which issues entirely by mail. Please go to Utah BCI at: http://des.utah.gov/bci/concealedfirearms.html SOURCE: RCW 9.41.070, RCW 9.41.073 3) What is "Warranting alarm", why do people (firearms instructors, police officers, gun shop employees) say that this law makes it illegal to open carry? This law, codified in 1969 as RCW 9.41.270, was passed in light of the intimidative actions of the Black Panther Party in both the State of California and in Seattle. Analysis of the legislative intent behind the bill and final law indicated that the Washington State Legislature never intended this to be a gun control bill, and stripped out in committee provisions of the bill which would have prohibited carry within 500 feet of any "public building" for fear it would ensnare a peaceable open carrier walking nearby, thereby violating a persons rights under Article 1, Section 24 of the Washington State Constitution. This is not to say that all forms of open carry is lawful. The key word is "peaceable". If your pistol is in a holster, and you're generally not touching it or making gripping movements (except of course, in an actual act of self defense), or opening a coat to expose your pistol to intimidate someone to do something, then the current body of case law generally makes such carry lawful. 4) Is there a gun ban in Seattle? Despite Mayor Greg Nickels' blustering and media blitz on the issue, there is no "gun ban" in Seattle currently in effect. The nature of the "gun ban" is the use of trespass law, which Seattle city officials, as the "owner of the property" would demand that a gun owner leave and be trespassed, and if they refuse to leave, charge them with armed trespass. Though there is the draftings of an administrative rule currently being made (as stated by a recent article in the Seattle Times), Mayor Nickels has NOT signed on to any administrative rule. It is well assumed that if any administrative rule is signed to that affect, it will trigger legal action, but not a moment before. 5) What does Article 1, Section 24 of the State Constitution actually say? SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men. 6) Is there a list of businesses that are pro/anti gun/OC? Yes, it is located here http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/3630.html 7) Can I carry on a bus? You may carry loaded either openly or concealed in any bus or light rail vehicle if you possess a CPL. The law states that you must have a CPL to carry loaded in "any" vehicle. RCW 9.91.025 (Unlawful bus conduct) protects the right to carry a gun or ammunition in a fashion not otherwise prohibited by law on a MUNICIPAL TRANSIT VEHICLE (Greyhound is not a municipal transit vehicle). 8) Can I carry a loaded long arm in my vehicle? As a general rule, no. See RCW 77.15.460. 9) Do I have to register my gun? Washington State has no registry at all for long arms. It does, however, have a dealer pistol sales registry. However, there is no requirement that secondary sales of pistols be registered with the Department of Licensing. You cannot sell the firearm to anyone you know is ineligible under state or federal law, nor can you transfer a firearm (whether by a sale or a gift) to a person who is a resident of another state (this violates federal law). 10) Where can I see a list of all available training bulletins from law enforcement agencies? http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads 11) How old do you have to be to carry a loaded handgun? Under RCW 9.41.240, you must be 21 years of age to carry a loaded handgun in public. 12) Do I have to use a certain type of holster? The law does not demand certain types of holsters. We do however recommend that your holster choice have some form of retention, and we recommend that if you use a shoulder holster, that you use a vertical position one rather than a horizontal one (per firearms safety rules). 13) Can I carry with a round in the chamber? There is no Washington or Federal law which prescribes carrying with a round in the chamber other than the normal "loaded" definition and the laws that regulate loaded carry. In other words, yes you can carry with a round in the chamber if you choose to. 14) Can I carry at or near a school? See Question #1 which as a general rule lists where a person can and cannot carry. The short answer is if you have a valid CPL and are picking up and dropping off a student you can carry on the grounds of grade schools. 15) What about colleges? There is no law against it, but the individual schools set their own policies, most of which seem to conflict with a stated desire to honor all constitutional rights of the students while then going on to ban lawfully carried guns. South Puget Sound Community College in Olympia is the only college in this state I know of that does not specifically ban lawfully carried guns from their campus. 15) Can I carry in a bar? No. You cannot carry in a place where alcohol is consumed AND is off limits to persons under 21. 16) Does Washington have an assault weapons ban. No. With the sunset in 2004 of the Clinton ban the ban no longer exists. Some states have adopted similar bans, but not Washington. 17) But someone told me folding stocks and high capacity mags are for cops only. NO! NO! NO! They were wrong. There IS NO ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN IN WASHINGTON. 18) I saw a sign in a city park saying no firearms. Is that legal? No. Washington State has preempted all firearms laws regarding possession. If you see such a sign, it is illegal and overridden by state law. Period. End of discussion. 19) Can I carry in a bank? There is no law prohibiting carry in a bank. Like any private property the bank may impose their own rules. It is up to you to find out if your bank allows lawfully carried firearms. 20) With the Federal Government buying parts of banks does that make them Federal property and off limits to carry? No. They own shares of the bank, and are merely another shareholder, and cannot make the bank property function as Federal property. 21) Who am I required to show my CPL to, and when? The law is somewhat vague, and the wording even worse, but essentially if you are required to have a CPL in your posession, you are obligated to produce it to qualified persons (such as law enforcement) if they demand it. Also since you have to have a CPL to carry loaded on a vehicle, regardless of OC or CC, I would argue a transit vehicle operator might also want to see a CPL before allowing you on the vehicle. There are no firm rules or laws on this matter that I am aware of though. Essentially I would produce to people such as cops or transit operators if the CPL is required by them to verify my legal status to carry the gun. 22) Can I carry on the Washington State Ferry System? Yes. The Ferries are not one of the off limits place to lawful carry. They are an extension of the state highway system, and are state owned. Like any vessel they are also operating under Federal laws, and sometimes are escorted by, or have Coast Guard officers on board. The US Coast Guard is not in the business of enforcing state laws, but are only concerned with Federal laws. Generally the Washington State Patrol provides law enforcement onboard the Washington State Ferry System. Last edited on Wed Apr 29th, 2009 06:38 am by sv_libertarian |
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Bookman Regular Member
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I love it! Thanks to both of you for posting this thread. |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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Bookman wrote: I love it! Thanks to both of you for posting this thread.Glad you like it. It may evolve a bit more when just_a_car gets the chance to put in his two cents, but I wanted to get this up. I have been promised this will be made into our very own forum sticky as soon as Mike or John get the chance. I really want to thank Lonnie for his hard work on writing the answers. He has the information more readily available than I do, and where I was going to give short answers he wisely chose the long detailed ones. |
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Bookman Regular Member
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If I may make a suggestion, could you edit to highlight all of the authorities cited? |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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I really don't see much of a need to. One just has to read to find them anyway. |
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Bookman Regular Member
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Okay. Just an idea. |
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computerizedfish Regular Member
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Frickin' Awesome!!! Thanks SV and Lonnie. I hope this does get sticky'd soon, it is just what the Washington section needs. |
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kparker Regular Member
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Very good summary! I would recommend either making the individual RCW citations into links, or at the very least, providing an overall link to RCW 9.41 . |
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Trillinon Regular Member
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sv_libertarian wroteRCW 9.41.050 is the primary law which affects gun carrying on a day to day basis. This law makes it unlawful for one to conceal a pistol without a concealed pistol license (hereinafter called CPL), and also makes it unlawful for one to carry a loaded pistol in any vehicle, whether it be openly carried or concealed carried.You should add "Without a CPL" here. |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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Trillinon wrote: sv_libertarian wroteIn context it makes sense even without that, but I'll add it to make it simpler to read...RCW 9.41.050 is the primary law which affects gun carrying on a day to day basis. This law makes it unlawful for one to conceal a pistol without a concealed pistol license (hereinafter called CPL), and also makes it unlawful for one to carry a loaded pistol in any vehicle, whether it be openly carried or concealed carried.You should add "Without a CPL" here. |
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Metal_Monkey Regular Member 
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(SNIP) Localities may also prohibit the carrying of handguns in the stadiums and convention centers that they operate, however they MUST exempt those who possess a concealed pistol license. There are also federal statutes you must be cognizant of: 18USC922(q), which prohibit the carrying of a handgun within 1000 feet of a school unless you are licensed to carry or meet another exemption to this law. Now does that mean in order to carry open in these areas require a CPL? Loophole? |
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Triple Tap Regular Member 
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Nicely done ! Thanks to both of you. |
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M1Gunr Regular Member 
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11) How old do you have to be to carry a loaded handgun? Under RCW 9.41.240, you must be 21 years of age to carry a loaded handgun in public. RCW 9.41.050 - Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms. The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to: (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area; |
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joeroket Regular Member
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Nice job SV. My suggestion is to edit #14 to say the following; 14) Can I carry at or near a school? See Question #1 which as a general rule lists where a person can and cannot carry. The short answer is if you have a valid CPL and are picking up and dropping off a student you can carry on the grounds of grade schools or the pistol must stay in the vehicle. |
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CrossBow33 Regular Member 
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Steve/Lonnie, re. #9) ..., nor can you transfer a firearm (whether by a sale or a gift) to a person who is a resident of another state (this violates federal law). I remember folks giving/trading/selling guns to friends & relatives who may have lived across the state line. Nobody gave it a second thought. Still don't, I'll bet. Cite? |
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Helter Regular Member
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CrossBow33 wrote: Steve/Lonnie, I'm sure a lot of folks out there do it anyway (especially between family members), but that doesn't make it legal. The chances of getting caught are pretty slim, but still. See 18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29. Interstate transfers between individuals has to be done at a FFL. Long arms can be done in either state so long as neither state prohibits it, handguns have to be transferred in the recipient's state. |
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CrossBow33 Regular Member
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So, I'm thinking that it applies to deceased firearms owners as well. ie, the estate, in order to transfer a firearm to anyone, has to go through a FFL, yes? It sure smells like "gun registration" to me. If serial numbers are in a database, any database, it would be just a matter of time before "the authorities" colated them into a master list. Handy things, computers! Eventually, most firearms would be in somebody's database. Probably a good thing though, 'cause, you never know, they might have to temporarily take custody of them for "officer safety" or ....!?!? Seriously though, I wonder what is the rationale for forcing interstate transfers to go through a FFL. I can't think of one other than a de facto registration. Having 50 different jurisdictions (state sovereignty/rights) is generally considered to be a good thing, liberty-wise. Perhaps not so much...in this instance |
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bcp Regular Member
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From: http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=60 Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor`s state of residence. |
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Bear 45/70 Regular Member 
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CrossBow33 wrote: So, I'm thinking that it applies to deceased firearms owners as well. ie, the estate, in order to transfer a firearm to anyone, has to go through a FFL, yes? It sure smells like "gun registration" to me. If serial numbers are in a database, any database, it would be just a matter of time before "the authorities" colated them into a master list. Handy things, computers! Eventually, most firearms would be in somebody's database. Probably a good thing though, 'cause, you never know, they might have to temporarily take custody of them for "officer safety" or ....!?!? Same old thing with government agencies. Making law with policy and there is no oversight anymore. Congress seems to not care that others are making law, even though Congress is suppose to be the only ones doing it. The IRS is the worst but the ATF and the enviroment nazies at the EPA are right on their heels. |
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John Hardin Regular Member 
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sv_libertarian wrote: 13) Can I carry with a round in the chamber? ITYM "proscribe". Prescribe = tell you to do it Proscribe = tell you not to do it Also: Now does that mean in order to carry open in these areas [within 1000' of a school] require a CPL? Per 18USC922(q), yes. It says schools and 1000' around are off limits without a state-issued license involving a criminal background check. |
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kparker Regular Member
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Same old thing with government agencies. Making law with policy and there is no oversight anymore. I bow to no man in my dislike of regulatory overreach. However, in the case of interstate gun sales, isn't this actually in the ('68) GCA, rather than just being something BATF came up with and added to the CFR? |
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Bear 45/70 Regular Member
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kparker wrote: Same old thing with government agencies. Making law with policy and there is no oversight anymore. Drafted on the advise of the ATF. |
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kparker Regular Member
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Ah. Ok, Yet Another Reason to dislike some particular agency. |
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kparker Regular Member
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[ oops, double tap] Last edited on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 07:41 am by kparker |
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gramercyk35 Regular Member 
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so what are the rules if any about carrying in bars? |
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Bear 45/70 Regular Member
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gramercyk35 wrote: so what are the rules if any about carrying in bars? If the area is restricted to over 21, no guns. Under 21 allowed, it's legal to carry. See RCW 9.41.300 (1d) "That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age;....." Or look here http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300 |
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vote_no Regular Member
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We have a handgun registry? I might have to go back to Wyoming. |
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John Hardin Regular Member
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vote_no wrote: We have a handgun registry? I might have to go back to Wyoming. No, there's no registry. However, FFLs do log purchases, so if you purchase a handgun commercially or receive one from out of state, there is a paper trail. |
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Gray Peterson State Researcher 
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We have a dealer sales registry for pistols. You are NOT required to update the DOL with your address or advise them that you've sold your gun. |
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neddis Regular Member 
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Ok, so I am I correct in reading that local cities, counties, and municipalities can't make laws restricting the carry of weapons, only the discharge? So, this would make it legal to OC in any city in WA? |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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neddis wrote: Ok, so I am I correct in reading that local cities, counties, and municipalities can't make laws restricting the carry of weapons, only the discharge? So, this would make it legal to OC in any city in WA?Yes. |
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carnaby Regular Member
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Just to clarify a point in the FAQ. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but carrying on "school grounds" is legal, as stated in the FAQ when picking up and dropping off a student from a school. However, this does not mean that you can enter the school building. The building, I believe, is always off limits. So you can walk your child to the door of the building, but you may not enter. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I spent a lot of time looking through the RCW's on this, and I did not see an exception for the school building, only the nebulous "grounds". |
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Right Wing Wacko Campaign Veteran 
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carnaby wrote: Just to clarify a point in the FAQ. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but carrying on "school grounds" is legal, as stated in the FAQ when picking up and dropping off a student from a school. However, this does not mean that you can enter the school building. The building, I believe, is always off limits. So you can walk your child to the door of the building, but you may not enter. That is my understanding also. This is also a place where I definitely refrain from Open Carry. While it is probably legal it's one of those cases where unless you really want to make a point it's not worth it. |
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scarlett1125 Regular Member 
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As someone who works in education, I am concerned about recent shootings on school property. However, I do not want my classroom to be a place where my students are afraid or feel uncomfortable, so at work, I CC. Likewise, I would rather be able to have a conversation with my daughter's teacher about my daughter, rather than about my handgun, so even though I am outside to pick Franki up, I still CC there, too. |
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Granum Regular Member 
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I think it has been touched on by the places stated that u can't carry but I'm gona ask anyways. IS it ok to carry in a bank oc and cc |
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Bear 45/70 Regular Member
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There are no laws against CC or OC in banks. However some banks can be a$$holes about it, just like some stores. |
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Granum Regular Member
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Bear 45/70 wrote: There are no laws against CC or OC in banks. However some banks can be a$$holes about it, just like some stores. Thank you. I didnt know so I always left it at home "live 2 blocks from the bank" now I'll give it a try. |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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Granum wrote: I think it has been touched on by the places stated that u can't carry but I'm gona ask anyways.The places listed as no carry are the only ones the State of Washington prohibits lawful carry, OC and CC. The feds play by their own rules. Needless to say a private property owner can prohibit carry on their property, but if it isn't posted or you haven't been told otherwise, go ahead and carry. |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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I've added some stuff to the FAQ's in the last couple of days. |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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Added question 21. |
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LJJ Regular Member
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scarlett1125 wrote: As someone who works in education, I am concerned about recent shootings on school property. However, I do not want my classroom to be a place where my students are afraid or feel uncomfortable, so at work, I CC. Likewise, I would rather be able to have a conversation with my daughter's teacher about my daughter, rather than about my handgun, so even though I am outside to pick Franki up, I still CC there, too. Might have missed it, but CC IN the building is not allowed for a simple CPL holder. CC is allowed on the school grounds, and then following that states: (5) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building. For referance, the whole section with parts (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) are below. Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to: (a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy; (b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities; (c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed; (d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district; (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student; (f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; (g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or (h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency. (4) Subsections (1)(c) and (d) of this section do not apply to any person who possesses nun-chu-ka sticks, throwing stars, or other dangerous weapons to be used in martial arts classes authorized to be conducted on the school premises. (5) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building. |
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John Hardin Regular Member
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Hey SV, you should add links to download the pamphlets. One stop shopping, y'know. |
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joeroket Regular Member
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I always felt it easier to just go to http://nwcdl.org at download everything. Besides that I have, with his a Lonnie's consent, duplicated the FAQ's. One day people will realize htere is more to nwcdl then just a forum. |
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bugly Regular Member 
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Here's a question I don't think I've ever seen here, but I may have missed: If a building is listed as a "no firearms" zone, such as a courthouse or Federal building, do they have to provide lawful carriers a place to lock their weapons (don't even say "in your car", they get broken into) when conducting lawful business in their building? I have avoided many times going to some courthouses to pick up paperwork to fill out for personal reasons (like my divorce papers, nothing criminal) and I had thought about asking them if there were any provisions, but most security guards I have seen are merely doing a job and don't really know what the laws are. Has anyone seen anything about this? BTW I do not have anything against security guards or airline security people, but, damn, if someone is going to strip me down to look for weapons, they should at least buy me a drink before or after. WTF? |
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Gene Beasley Regular Member 
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bugly wrote: Here's a question I don't think I've ever seen here, but I may have missed: My understanding is that of the restricted carry locations defined in 9.41.300, only the courts (county, municipal) are required to provide a lock box or someone to safeguard your weapon. Federal courts are another matter. All federal property falls under the USC and CFR, not state law; all weapons are prohibited with no requirement to provide storage or delineation between restricted areas and public areas. However, there are various courts (such as Tacoma district per this thread) that make up their rules as they go. Along those lines, I have another question. If a court is multi-purpose, such as a muni court by day and council chambers by night - does the RCW still apply? I suspect it does as there is no provision defining such exception. |
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bugly Regular Member
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It would be my understanding that if a building is used in a "mulipurpose" way, the purpose for which you would be disallowed to carry into the building would keep you from carrying inside a building due to the office not being removed when not used. If they were to move all their materials out when not working there, it would free that building up. Kinda like your house is still your house when you're not home. (unless you have a cat...) |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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I can not find anything that definitivly states that you can "Open Carry"in the state of Washington. I have have however read and pasted RCW 9.41.270 that clearly states RCW 9.41.270 Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions. (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. (2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license. (3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following: (a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business; (b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty; (c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person; (d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or (e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments ======================================================= Can anyone send me an email that clearly defines the fact that this is an "Open Carry" state? I have a CWP, I would like to be able to carry my 9mm in the open as it is hard to conceal since I am short and fat. I really dont want to have to carry a 380 or move to the next size up fat pants. I would love to see us to be able to carry like NH, and Virginia. More exposed guns = less crime. If your not doing anything wrong you shouldnt have anything to hide. Every state should be open carry and not need any concealed weapons permits. |
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joeroket Regular Member
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There is nothing that details the legalities of OC but you can read the court rulings and training bulletins regarding open carry. http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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So by the way it reads, its all at the discretion of the police. I am still surprised, in all the years I've lived in WA, that I have never seen someone "Open carry" in this state. |
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just_a_car Regular Member 
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amzbrady wrote: (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. amzbrady, you have highlighted sections without reading the section in its entirety... and that's the problem we're having with many LEO's. They don't read it in its entirety and read it as you have... which is wrong. If you keep reading past your last highlight where it says "in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that"..."warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." You will see that the four parts above MUST be met along with warranting alarm for the safety of other persons for the law to be applied. Our appellate courts have an unpublished opinion in State v Casad that states mere open carry of a firearm does NOT warrant alarm for the safety of other persons. |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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osted: Sunday March 1st, 2009 16:06 amzbrady wrote: (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. OK, the reason I took sections out of context, is because thats all that is needed for you to lose you cpl. It is unlawful to exhibit or display any firearm that is capable of producing bodily harm, that warrants alarm. If you do not try to conceal your weapon and someone sees it and feels threatened they can call the police, make a complaint and I bet you will be ticketed if you are not attempting to conceal it. Make a point and prove the Open carry in Wa state is applicable by strapping on a six gun and walk around and see what happens. All of the gun shop owners I have spoke to say the same thing. It is an officers discretion on whether you are breaking the law or not by just displaying your weapon, but its not worth taking a chance on losing you cpl over. We should be able to carry unconcealed without a license in this state but its not recommended to try. As in most RCW's not all of the text must be met as worded, just one of the them. Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 02:00 am by amzbrady |
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M1Gunr Regular Member
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I wanna play this game, check out my edits....... amzbrady wrote: Posted: Sunday March 1st, 2009 16:06 |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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The comma's are there to seperate conditions. If all condition were required to be met there would be "and" between them. In fact if you really want to convince me, I invite you to prove your claim to the legal Open Carry law in Washington by having a frien video tape you walking the streets of Seattle with a holstered weapon in plain view. In fact what would really be convincing more than anything go to some stores, and places with the masses. Then for a true test make your way into Pierce county, then Thurston County, the to our wonderful little town in Ocean Shores, here in Grays Harbor County. Make sure there is something going on at the convention center here. Then Post it on YouTube for us all to see. If you dont have any problems then at that time I will concede you are indeed the almighty gun guru, and apologize for ever doubting your legal knowledge. Oh yea, I almost forgot, "I triple dog dare ya..." Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 04:03 am by amzbrady |
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Gene Beasley Regular Member
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amzbrady wrote: The comma's are there to seperate conditions. If all condition were required to be met there would be "and" between them. Not sure where you get this information, but I don't believe your interpretation to be correct. Before I jump into this, do me the favor of reading two opinions that can be found on Northwest Citizen's Defense League. I'm not sure, but I think that you do need to register to access the downloads. State v. Spencer State vs. Casad [edit] Never mind, your last edit has convinced me of my suspicions. Troll away. Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 04:04 am by Gene Beasley |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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You dont need to be logged on to download, just to reply. both of these cases were concerning rifles, not pistols in holsters. Spencer lost, and unbelievably casado or whatever his name is won while being a felon with drugs. how do you like that. I need to see a definite case involving a pistol in holster. The thing that they get you on is "or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." All they need is someone to feel threatened and call the police. Thats where they get ya. |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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amzbrady wrote:
Wow... you're none-too-bright, huh? Maybe you should go ahead and read around the forum a bit... maybe find out that many, many folk go about their daily lives while Open Carrying (myself included) and have little to no issue with it, even with law enforcement officers. Since you don't seem to want to listen to reason at all, I'm done with you. By the way, the rhetoric you're using screams "HEY, I'M AN ANTI-GUN FANATIC!!!" Go away. |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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amzbrady wrote: The comma's are there to seperate conditions. If all condition were required to be met there would be "and" between them.Oh, and by the way, before I call it quits, there is an "And" between those conditions. Again, learn to read you troll. |
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Phssthpok Regular Member
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amzbrady wrote: The comma's are there to seperate conditions. If all condition were required to be met there would be "and" between them. I'll meet your challenge (as best I can from down here) and do you one better! See my birthday account HERE . And HERE you will find video documentation of my attempt to check my sidearm at the Clark County COURTHOUSE as required by, and in full compliance with state law ( RCW 9.41.300 ). Note that while the officers violated state law by placing requirements on doing so that were "inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed(ed) the requirements of state law"( RCW 9.41.290 ) and even apparently felt 'threatened' enough to unholster a sidearm, I was NOT arrest for violating RCW 9.41.270, nor was my CPL revoked. I'm sure if it was up to the discretion of Dick Butler he would have 'cuffed and stuffed' me in a heartbeat.....if only he were able. Now then...what say ye to THAT, sir? Last edited on Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 02:50 pm by Phssthpok |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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The point I'm trying to make is... I feel everystate should be Open Carry like virginia, and new hampshire. There a few people on this sire saying WA is open carry but I can not find anything, as far as Pictures, and video, showing people in the public with visable pistols in holsters at thier side. Even your video at CC Courthouse, didnt show your sidearm, "unless I missed it". I would love to jump on the bandwagon and support Open carry in WA. I would rather Open Carry than have to have a cpl. I just dont wanna be the minority. If you know of any other video out there showing some convincing footage, please forward the links. I am firm on seeing is believing. |
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just_a_car Regular Member
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You want seeing is believing? Come to a lunch/dinner meetup. Why the hell should we have to go out and make a video to ease your fears? |
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M1Gunr Regular Member
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just_a_car wrote: You want seeing is believing? Come to a lunch/dinner meetup. This Sunday at Mile Post 135 northbound on I-5 will be a group of us picking up trash while armed. And just for you I will wear 2 weapons exposed. One on my hip and one in a shoulder holster. There will be a big orange sign to mark the area. Attached Image (viewed 406 times): |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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amzbrady wrote: The point I'm trying to make is... I feel everystate should be Open Carry like virginia, and new hampshire. There a few people on this sire saying WA is open carry but I can not find anything, as far as Pictures, and video, showing people in the public with visable pistols in holsters at thier side. Even your video at CC Courthouse, didnt show your sidearm, "unless I missed it". I would love to jump on the bandwagon and support Open carry in WA. I would rather Open Carry than have to have a cpl. I just dont wanna be the minority. If you know of any other video out there showing some convincing footage, please forward the links. I am firm on seeing is believing.Dude you are either a troll, or simply don't get the plain facts in front of your eyes. I have at least half a dozen different documents from various police agencies which state in very plain english that Washignton State is an open carry state. If you cannot come to grips with reality, or work up the nerve to face the facts in front of your face then go somewhere else. Read some of the OC bulletins from local police agencies. That should be a real solid clue as to what is going on. |
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sudden valley gunner Regular Member 
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It could be he was raised an anti and all his friends are anti, almost all media is anti, the misconceptions are very bountiful, or just overly fearful. Hopefully he sticks around reads more and is telling the truth about wanting to be open carry. If I lived closer to Ocean Shores I would ask him out for a cup of coffee to discuss why I carry, and open carry to show I am not just talking the talk. If you are still interested Amzbrady in open carry I would suggest you word your concerns and questions in a less negative way and do more research, and attend a meet like the one in Seatac March 28th were there hopefully will be Law Enforcement there also. No need to open carry if you are not comfortable, but would be a good educational experience. If you ever are up north state Whatcom county area PM me I will meet you for coffee. I will be surfing this summer in Westport if you ever make it that way too. |
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cynicist Regular Member 
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unbelievably casado or whatever his name is won while being a felon with drugs. how do you like that. I need to see a definite case involving a pistol in holster. The thing that they get you on is "or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." All they need is someone to feel threatened and call the police. Thats where they get ya. That's not true. From the State v. Casad ruling: "It is not unlawful for a person to responsibly walk down the street with a visible firearm, even if this action would shock some people." There a few people on this sire saying WA is open carry but I can not find anything, as far as Pictures, and video, showing people in the public with visable pistols in holsters at thier side.Those have nothing to do with WA being an open carry state. If it's not illegal, it's legal. "Nulle crimen sine lege" is that old Latin term for it, ("there is no crime without a law") and it's continued to this day (USA PATRIOT ACT notwithstanding.) Case law has show it to be legal, and there is no law against it. Therefore it's legal. A video would prove nothing, as a search of youtube will show you any kind of criminal activity you want. |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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Keep in mind Cassad is not a "published" ruling which means it cannot be cited in future cases as an example of case law. It is a good example of how the law is viewed and interpreted in this state though. |
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arentol Regular Member 
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It doesn't really matter what the state statutes say or how you chose to interpret them anyway because the state is constitutionally barred from impairing your right to bear arms in defense of yourself: SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men. So if the state chooses not to allow open carry then your right to bear arms in defense of yourself is definitely impaired and that would be a violation of the state constitution. The basic error people make is in looking for the expression of a right amongst criminal statues. The purpose of criminal statutes is to define only three things: What is NOT legal (a crime), what the penalty is for each crime, and what exceptions there may be to each crime (like the many exceptions given to law enforcement officers). So you don't go looking to RCW 9.41.270 to find out whether you can bear arms. You look at RCW 9.41.270 to find out what actions while bearing arms are illegal. The right to bear arms in and of itself is already given to you via the state constitution. As a matter of fact, if you look closely you will realize RCW 9.41.270 in fact AFFIRMS the right to open carry. You see, if open carry was illegal then 9.41.270 would simply state: (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm. By defining in detail what OTHER things must take place for carrying a weapon to be illegal there is an automatic implication of consent to carry as long as you do not meet those conditions that make it illegal. The question then goes to the courts (via cases presented to them) to decide what qualifies as "a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." The tricky part that makes everyone so certain you can OC in WA is this... If OC alone is sufficient to warrant alarm or intimidate another in and of itself then there is no right to bear arms in defense of yourself without a CPL license. Having to pay money and be fingerprinted and background checked is DEFINITELY an impairment to your right to keep an bear arms in defense of yourself. So if RCW 9.41.270 is ever used to convict someone in a simple OC case the law will be overturned on appeal. There is also the matter of the training bulletins and Attorney Generals opinons on OC. I am not going to go into why those make it legal, because they don't. Those are policy decisions to not try to use OC as probable cause, which is done for a good reason. Allow me to explain WHY the Attorney General does not want ANYONE to EVER be arrested and prosecuted for OC.... As is clear from all the above TECHNICALLY OC is still in a little bit of a state of limbo because no real ruling has yet been made. The constitution pretty clearly makes it legal, but RCW 9.41.270 pushes that issue just a teeny bit. So what happens if an pistol OC'er is tried and convicted under RCW 9.41.270 ANYWHERE in the state of WA? He might just appeal (eventually) to the state supreme court, and then OC will NOT be in a state of limbo anymore, it will be clearly and expressly legal. Right now the police and the attorney general prefer that this issue not be settled because it does occasionally give them some leeway to get probable cause to search real criminals. For instance, in State vs. Casad if the officer had been able to provide a statement from someone that Casad put down one of the rifles and aimed the other rifle at someone then that case would not have been overturned. Unfortunately they had a straight up OC situation and so Casad won on appeal. If the statue is challenged and loses on a true OC case then everyone ever convicted based on evidence gained from probable cause brought about by RCW 9.41.270 will appeal, and some (not most, but some) will win and be freed. Keep in mind though it is not that simple.. It has to be the right kind of case to fark everything up. The problem is that if the police pick up every OC'er they see all willy-nilly for even just a couple months the perfect case to fark over the law WILL come up, and you can bet some lawyer looking to make a name for himself by overturning a state law WILL jump all over that case and fark over RCW 9.41.270. So that is why OC is legal here.. First because it simply is because of the WA constitution, and second because the AG knows that the only law that could disallow it is unconstitutional if applied in that manner and he doesn't want to fark over that law which is still useful for other reasons. Last edited on Fri Apr 10th, 2009 10:58 pm by arentol |
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Gene Beasley Regular Member
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arentol wrote: [much worth reading; snipped none-the-less] Welcome to the board. I appreciate the thought and reasoning with which you post. |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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Last edited on Wed Apr 22nd, 2009 08:36 pm by amzbrady |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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I didnt see anything about Post offices. Ours has a sign that says no guns allowed. Is this a federal building, and if so shouldnt they provide a lock box to secure your weapon? |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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I didnt see anything about Post offices. Ours has a sign that says no guns allowed. Is this a federal building, and if so shouldnt they provide a lock box to secure your weapon? |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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There is no FEDERAL obligation to secure guns in a federal building. The post office is weird. They ban guns with one statute, but in another exempt them for "lawful purposes." |
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FMCDH Regular Member 
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sv_libertarian wrote: There is no FEDERAL obligation to secure guns in a federal building. The post office is weird. They ban guns with one statute, but in another exempt them for "lawful purposes." That's their way of saying that if a bad guy chased you onto Postal Service property and you were forced to use your pistol to defend yourself as a last resort, you would PROBABLY be ok. I read the dichotomy to mean that you may not willingly carry or cause to be carried a firearm onto Postal Service property, it must be by immediate lawful necessity.  |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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Theoretical questions in related parts: 1) I am CC W/IWB holster with my jacket covering the butt of my sidearm. I stop at a Quicky Mart, I am hot so I take my jacket off and go inside to talk to the owner whom I know. Now the barrel of my gun is holstered in my waist band and the butt of the gun is exposed, is this OC or CC? 2) If concidered CC... A sheriff walks in and asks to see my CWP. Am I on private Property or Public Property? Do I have to produce my CWP? 3) If concidered OP... Do I have to produce ID if asked. This didnt happen to me, but a guy I know who works at a fuel station was carrying concealed and his shirt came up and over the butt of his gun after reaching up for a pack of cigarettes from the overhead rack. A sheriff noticed the butt of the gun and asked him for his cwp telling him he is in public. Which made me question in the above manner. I told him the way I interperted the laws and from what I've read here. He is on Private Property so OC or CC doesnt matter with permit or not, and with the butt of the gun showing I interperate that as OC. I know some states, you do not legally have to produce ID unless you are under arrest. I thought I remembered hearing of a law here that said you could be arrested or detained if you did not have ID on your person in public. Just looking for some clarity... |
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FMCDH Regular Member
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RCW 9.41.050Carrying firearms. (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol. (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction. (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle. (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor. (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle. (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor. (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law. |
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kwiebe Regular Member 
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Intro: I'm new to this site, long-time Tacoma resident, love the site! I'm 48 and recently decided it would be good to join the NRA, learn the ropes, get some experience, etc. I have some light experience recreational shooting but that dates back many years, so I'm considering this a fresh start. I'm bringing my 17-yo son along with me for this endeavor, and my brother too. We're trying to do things right, i.e., classes, reading, practice, etc. My CPL application is pending, should have it soon. Last night I was going over the stuff they handed out where I turned in my application, got to reading the laws and started wondering about OC in WA. I just always assumed OC was verboten here, but couldn't find any reference in the laws to carrying, other than CC. Came to the conclusion OC must be legal, so today came across this site and realized I was correct! Again, great site and glad to be here. Hope to become a contributing member.  |
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FMCDH Regular Member
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kwiebe wrote: ...I just always assumed OC was verboten here, but couldn't find any reference in the laws to carrying, other than CC. Came to the conclusion OC must be legal, so today came across this site and realized I was correct! Welcome to the board Kwiebe! You are very correct. The purpose of the law outlines what we CANT do, not what we can do, so therefore, if something is not explicitly or implicitly illegal, it is legal. |
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Batousaii Regular Member 
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kwiebe wrote: ... I just always assumed OC was verboten here, but couldn't find any reference in the laws to carrying, other than CC... Yeah, me too. Uncle sam dropped me off here in WA after growing up in CA. We all know CA loves to crush our "  "... so, admittedly a bit timid. I was elated at having my CC permit here in WA. and been carrying sparky for almost 10 years since. Recently had a guy come into our establishment with OC, so it got my curiosity up. That's when i found the site too - absolutely, 100% awesome. makes me feel American again.  Bat p.s. still working on the " " to OC .. i will get there. |
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bigd_74 Regular Member
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Another newbie here. Had my CPL since '99 & am going to start carrying OC too. Hope to be a contributor to the forum as well.  |
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sudden valley gunner Regular Member
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Welcome to the forum, and look forward to your contribution. Open carry has been my way of life, for several months and I don't leave home without it. Out of curiosity I am wondering how you found this site? I am thinking all this news coverage of late is going to give this site a big bump in membership nationwide. |
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bigd_74 Regular Member
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sudden valley gunner wrote: Welcome to the forum, and look forward to your contribution. Open carry has been my way of life, for several months and I don't leave home without it. Thank-you for the welcome! I usually carry when I leave the house but it is usually CC. I found the site about 6 months ago talking with some friends on a motorcycle forum that I frequent. There was a discussion about CC and OC in WA & OR. Someone referenced this site and I bookmarked it.Went shooting this last weekend with some friends of a friend & both of the guys I met for the first time were OC'ing. It reminded me of the site here so I thought I would officially sign up, contribute and be involved when I can. My dad & I are WAC members & frequent the gun show locally. I would agree that with the current national issues, we will see more activity here. Dave~ |
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stone789 Guest
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TY VERY much for the info and i will be useing the info for myself . i live in clarkston wa. and they are tuff here as far as police so i need the laws to verify if im in trouble. ty again. |
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RayeHawk Regular Member
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Hi, Guys (& Gals, I guess, but we're few and far between here) - I just made a trip to Colo (2 day drive) and OC'd most of the trip. Upon my return, a friend remarked that you have to have CPL to carry openly in WA, effectively, because iof the locked case in vehicle bit. And on reading today, I believe that means that if there is not a round in the chamber, it's legal. So, can I carry with the *bidness* chamber empty? And yes, I'm a girl  Rachel |
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FMCDH Regular Member
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RayeHawk wrote: So, can I carry with the *bidness* chamber empty? Welcome to OCDO Rachel, You must first look at the definition of loaded in the RCWs http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010 Then the RCW by which carrying a loaded pistol in a vehicle is illegal without a CPL http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050 You can see by reading both of these, that simply keeping the camber empty but the loaded magazine in the gun, you would be in violation while you are in a vehicle, but no such restriction applies when you are out of the vehicle. You simply cannot have it concealed. Only by keeping the chamber empty and the magazines separate from the pistol are you in compliance by the letter of the law while in a vehicle. That being said, many would argue that you are stretching your luck in Washington if you do anything less than have the gun, or ammo and or both locked out of direct access while you are in a vehicle and do not have a permit. While you can follow the letter of the law simply by keeping the ammo separate from the pistol (such as in a mag holder preferably on the opposite side of your body), its up to you to decide how much risk you are willing to take. Keep in mind that the pistol, loaded or not, must remain clearly visible without a CPL. You can do a search of the threads to find more conversation on that topic as it has been covered over and over again. Also, please check the FAQ for the Washington forum, as most general questions such as yours have already been answered for easy reference. Not that it matters if you are "a girl" or not, but its nice to see more woman taking their own safety seriously. Again, welcome. Last edited on Fri Sep 18th, 2009 12:28 am by FMCDH |
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RayeHawk Regular Member
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FMCDH wrote: RayeHawk wrote:So, can I carry with the *bidness* chamber empty? Thanks, FMDCH - I'm actually in Kenmore, myself. But the reason I asked is *because* I HAVE read the RCW - (9) "Loaded" means: (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm; (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm; (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver; Since the firearm in question is a revolver, no round in cylinder = not loaded. Five live, and one empty should fit the definition of not loaded. |
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joeroket Regular Member
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No, five live and one empty does not fit the definition of loaded because all five are in the cylinder. Last edited on Sat Sep 19th, 2009 01:21 am by joeroket |
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FMCDH Regular Member
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joeroket wrote: No, five live and one empty does not fit the definition of loaded because all five are in the cylinder. Exactly. For the case of a revolver, any in the cylinder and you are considered loaded. |
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FMCDH Regular Member
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RayeHawk wrote:
Thats great neighbor! If you shop at the Safeway at all, you probably have seen me, and I normally OC during anything that would be considered "good" weather. Just look for a blond/brown haired guy who looks like a cop, wearing blue jeans and a black or blue t-shirt with a S&W M&P in a black leather DeSantis holster. Feel free to say Hi! |
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joeroket Regular Member
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FMCDH wrote:joeroket wrote:No, five live and one empty does not fit the definition of loaded because all five are in the cylinder. It would be nice if they at least let us run Utah loaded with no permit. |
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amzbrady Regular Member
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ok, I may be a simpleton, but I like things in laymens terms. I have read the rcw's and dont like them. I would like someone to clarify a few things for me. I have posted this before and got frustrated with reply's posting the rcw's to me. please replay and refrain from rcw's. #1, in a vehicle, you must have a cpl and I do, to carry loaded. Can I strap a holster to the underside of my steering wheel and carry loaded, or on my door pocket? Can I just toss the handgun on the dash, or under the seat or on the seat next to me? I know you have to lock the weapon down when you leave the vehicle and go someplace you can not carry, like the post office or the bar. #2, How much of a handgun has to be concealed to make it concealed? I C/C w/ an IWB and the but of the gun sticks out with part of the slide. Like I said I'm a simpleton and hate to read, a Dr. Suess style book on Carry etiquette, with pictures would be perfect for me. I would like to carry, in a car. I would like to carry in a bar, I would like to carry my gun, When I carry, I want to have fun... |
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sudden valley gunner Regular Member
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amzbrady wrote: ok, I may be a simpleton, but I like things in laymens terms. I have read the rcw's and dont like them. I would like someone to clarify a few things for me. I have posted this before and got frustrated with reply's posting the rcw's to me. please replay and refrain from rcw's. I am with you on having things in layman terms. Through this site and reading the rcw's I have had a lot better understanding. 1. If you have your cpl It doesnt matter where you put it in the car, just like it wouldn't matter where you would carry it on yourself. So carry or put it where ever is the most convenient for you. 2. Is a trickier question, because you are concealing but part of it is exposed, wich could lead to situations of LEO's demanding to see your cpl. In my opinion, you shouldn't give them reason to ask. From what I have discerned and I could be wrong, concealed would be if you can't immediatley percieve it as a fire arm, but I personally play it safe and if I conceal its totally concealed ( sometimes I print though), or I make sure it is totally open, so as not to have any gray areas. As to what my intentions are. I definately am not a lawyer, so these are my personal opinions and what I percieve from what I have read. |
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kito109654 Regular Member
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First off, to the OP, thanks for the great breakdown of information. Sometimes reading those RCWs makes my head spin. sudden valley gunner wrote: 1. If you have your cpl It doesnt matter where you put it in the car, just like it wouldn't matter where you would carry it on yourself. So carry or put it where ever is the most convenient for you. That is not what I understand to be the law when reading RCW 9.41.050 2a. (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle. So I would say it's not okay to put it in the door or affix it anywhere in the vehicle or have it on the seat next to you or the dash. You may keep it on you. Even just having it out of it's holster and sitting in your lap would be a gray area in my eyes. |
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joeroket Regular Member
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kito109654 wrote: First off, to the OP, thanks for the great breakdown of information. Sometimes reading those RCWs makes my head spin. You are reading it wrong. If you meet i, ii, or iii then you are in compliance with the law. As long as you are in the vehicle with the loaded pistol and you have a CPL then there is no violation of .050. |
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kito109654 Regular Member
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Right you are! I see that now, thanks for clearing it up for me. |
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joeroket Regular Member
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kito109654 wrote:Right you are! I see that now, thanks for clearing it up for me. Piece of cake. Thats why we are all here, to learn and educate. |
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