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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Pennsylvania > Police Arrest Man for Openly Carrying b/c Obama was Going to Speak; UPDATE: Trial on Tuesday 12 JUL!
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Pennsylvania > Police Arrest Man for Openly Carrying b/c Obama was Going to Speak; UPDATE: Trial on Tuesday 12 JUL!
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Mike Super Moderator
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http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2008/08/29/news/doc48b8adb204d42890214530.txt Man arrested for having gun at rally By Bill Vidonic, Times Staff Published: Friday, August 29, 2008 11:10 PM EDT BEAVER — An Industry man is facing a disorderly conduct charge for attending the Barack Obama rally in Irvine Park with a loaded gun that was holstered on his hip, according to state police and the Beaver County sheriff’s department. John Noble, 50, was questioned by police for several hours Friday night after the incident, in which witnesses said he also was passing out fliers with writing about gun rights. John Atkinson of Vanport Township said he saw Noble passing out the fliers and noticed the small-caliber handgun strapped to the man’s waist. He said he quickly notified nearby deputy sheriffs, and deputies Joseph O’Sche and Rich Yonlisky approached the man as he walked along Market Street. Atkinson said that when the deputies asked why he had a gun, Noble replied, “Because I’m an American,” and one of the deputies responded, “Well, you’re under arrest.” Noble was hustled to a nearby vehicle, and state police took him to the Brighton Township barracks to question him. Beaver County Sheriff George David said that Noble insisted he had a right to have the gun because he has a permit to carry it. It wasn’t clear late Friday whether Noble had a valid permit. David said Noble “wanted to show his rights.” He said Noble never removed the gun from the holster or threatened anyone. Noble’s arrest took place around 7 p.m., nearly 90 minutes before Sen. Obama and the rest of his campaign team arrived in Beaver. Bill Vidonic can be reached online at bvidonic@timesonline.com. |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member 
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The Beaver County and Allegheny Times still has no comments on this tocsin. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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I just posted the following comment, not yet printed: "Interesting - I wonder how constitutionally protected conduct will amount to disorderly conduct? Answer: It won't, and the police are liable to be sued for damages In any event, the man did NOT need any permit to carry a handgun openly in a holster because PA is like most states where any person (not otherwise prohibited from possessing a gun) may openly carry a handgun in a holster, at least on foot. Mike Stollenwerk OpenCarry.org" |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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I had tried too but captcha seldom if ever works with my computer. One comment is noted but not - to me - visible. |
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Armed Regular Member 
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Mike wrote: I just posted the following comment, not yet printed: What do you want to bet that your comment won't show up at all? It's been an hour since your post and I just checked - still no comments on that story. Local paper here does the same thing. |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher 
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Original discussion thread here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/15537.html Discussion on PAFOA: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/31196-mtn-jack-arrested-oc-near-obama-rally-site.html |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Article from today::: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08243/908351-100.stm Industry man contests arrest outside Obama rally Saturday, August 30, 2008 By Milan Simonich, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ___________________________________________ A Beaver County man who routinely wears a pistol on his hip says he was illegally arrested by local law officers before a rally for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. "I am a threat to no one. Mr. Obama doesn't trump my constitutional rights. The president of the United States doesn't trump my constitutional rights," said John Noble, who was handcuffed, questioned for about two hours and then told by state police that he would receive two citations for disorderly conduct. Mr. Noble, 50, of Industry, said he wore a holstered Glock 19 when he entered the park across the street from the Beaver County Courthouse more than an hour before Mr. Obama arrived for a campaign appearance Friday night. "I had a Bible in one hand and an apple in the other. I was going to pass out my fliers [on the rights of law-abiding Americans to carry guns], but I never got the chance." State police in Beaver County referred questions about Mr. Noble's arrest to Trooper Shawn Schexnaildre, of New Castle, who was part of the law enforcement detail in the park. The trooper, who was to begin his shift later today, could not be reached immediately for comment. Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble. "Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said. Mr. Noble said four or five law officers, plus a police dog, descended on him after somebody reported that he was wearing a pistol on his hip. He said they held him for 40 minutes in a Secret Service vehicle, then took him to the Beaver barracks of the state police for questioning. After being cuffed and shackled, he said, police eventually read him his rights. They also confiscated his pistol. "Didn't even give me a receipt for it. There were lots of violations of my constitutional rights," Mr. Noble said, After his arrest, his wife, Janet, handed out his fliers on citizens' rights to carry guns. Mr. Noble said he had not decided whether to support Mr. Obama or Republican John McCain in the presidential election. He said he hoped Mr. Obama would call him to affirm the right of a law-abiding man to carry a pistol while a presidential contender visited. Mr. Noble, a former body guard, said he used to carry his pistol in his clothing. But, he said, he has openly worn his handgun in a secure holster for the last four or five years. Nobody ever bothered him before, he said. He said he sometimes is asked why he carries a gun, and he explains that it is his constitutional right. In a practical sense, he said, he arms himself for protection. He said he has a lawyer and may bring a lawsuit over his treatment by police. First published on August 30, 2008 at 1:04 pm |
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Mike Super Moderator
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This incident is reminisent of the "Smoketown 6" incident when PA police claimed the right to arrest people at will for free speech on a public street just because President Bush was driving thru town. See http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/11525prs20041014.html |
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sccrref Regular Member 
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I can only hope that he files suit, wins and wins huge. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member 
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The SS ....er I mean Secret Service seems to have extra-legal capacity sometimes and sometimes I understand it and sometimes I don't. I feel reasonably sure that they were constructive in influencing the state police to file the charges. Everything I have read and seen on this matter would indicate no illegal activity was taking place except by law enforcement personnel. Yata hey |
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chrsjhnsn Regular Member
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It seems to be making international news, of course when he is totally exonerated it wont make the news at all. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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chrsjhnsn wrote: It seems to be making international news Where? URL please. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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MSNBC report: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26464328 |
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Statesman Regular Member 
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What law was broken? What was the disorderly conduct? I question who has the "disorder" here. I hope this guy makes bank on this illegal arrest lawsuit. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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And the "Democratic UnderGround" has picked this up - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3461596 NOTE: Some pro-gun comments! |
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Statesman Regular Member
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NOTE: Some pro-gun comments! Quick! Look! The sky is falling!  |
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Sea_Chicken Regular Member 
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Disorderly conduct? What about kidnapping, ileagal search and seizure, theft of a fire arm, hell you could almost throw freedom of religion in there too. I wonder what Osam... I mean Obama has to say in reaction or if he even has a pair enough to admit this was an injustice. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Another article: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/17342284/detail.html?rss=pit&psp=news |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Another article: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/17342284/detail.html?rss=pit&psp=news In a news release, state police Trooper Shawn L. Schexnaildre wrote that Noble “breached the secured perimeter of a presidential candidate political rally with a handgun fully loaded, operational, holstered and exposed.” Cool! So now we have Pennsylvania State Trooper Shawn L. Schexnaildre blatantly lying to the media. Say goodbye career, Mr. Schexnaildre. |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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FYI, trooper Schexnaildre is a 2005 academy grad http://www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/cwp/view.asp?A=11&Q=173939 Last edited on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 07:11 am by Pa. Patriot |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Pa. Patriot wrote: FYI, trooper Schexnaildre is a 2005 academy grad  gotcha! Shame to have such a short career.Note to RB - Sleep restores the mind and body - get some occasionally. Yata hey Edited to add note Last edited on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 06:27 am by Grapeshot |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Grapeshot wrote: Pa. Patriot wrote:FYI, trooper Schexnaildre is a 2005 academy grad Noted  . Thanks buddy, on the way to bed shortly. I have been working on this issue for approximately the past 18 out of 24 hours. |
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CaptainFinn Regular Member
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Pa. Patriot wrote: Another article: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/17342284/detail.html?rss=pit&psp=news If he 'breached the secured perimeter' it must NOT have been a 'secured' perimeter... |
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no carry permit ? Regular Member
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I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. |
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longwatch Founder's Club Member 
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around.Whatever. |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. Yeah, how dare he be present on public property, within the law, when Obama is in town.... I think everyone in Pa. should leave their guns at home when Obama is in Pa. Afterall, we need to pick our battles. :rolleyes: Last edited on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 09:47 am by Pa. Patriot |
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Thundar Regular Member 
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. No carry permit?: I think you have the wrong website. MTN Jack is not a nut case. He is a respected member of this forum. I do not think there are many here that first calculate the political pros and cons before defending a persons 2nd and 4th Amendment rights. If you want that sort of calculating website and crowd I recommend that you go to the NRA site. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. Yeah, and while we are at it, we should just advise people to not cary a gun anywhere in the United States until the Presidential election is over. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2008/08/31/news/doc48ba0ed765c78582222905.txt Man says he had right to carry gun to rally By Bill Vidonic, Times Staff Published: Saturday, August 30, 2008 11:31 PM EDT INDUSTRY — An Industry man insisted Saturday there’s nothing in the law that prevented him from wearing a loaded handgun to Friday’s presidential election rally in Beaver. “I have it for protection, to protect my wife and my children,” said John A. Noble, 50. “I never gave it a thought. I wasn’t doing anything illegal,” Noble, a horse and cattle fence builder, said he was simply standing with others at the rally, a Bible in one hand, and an apple in the other. But it was the Glock 19 handgun holstered at his side that drew the attention of local and federal law enforcement. State police said just wearing the gun disrupted the event. Noble said he had a handful of fliers that he wanted to pass out, spelling out gun rights. Those fliers list Noble’s basic argument, citing a Pennsylvania statute that says a person may “openly carry a handgun in plain sight with no license.” Exceptions include in vehicles, in Philadelphia, and convicted felons. To carry a concealed handgun, a person must have a state license to carry firearms. Noble said he didn’t have a ticket to the rally, and he was standing with his wife, Janet, in McIntosh Park. While that area was fenced in, spectators did not have to pass through metal detectors to get into that area, as they did in Irvine Park. In a news release, state police Trooper Shawn L. Schexnaildre wrote that Noble “breached the secured perimeter of a presidential candidate political rally with a handgun fully loaded, operational, holstered and exposed.” Bystanders alerted police, and deputy sheriffs, Beaver police, state police and Secret Service agents took him into custody. “(Noble’s) actions created a clear public alarm and caused a significant breakdown in the security measures at the rally” with officers abandoning their posts “to ensure his quick and safe apprehension and disarming.” Friday, deputies and state police said that Noble never tried to draw his weapon and did not threaten anyone with it. Noble’s arrest took place more than an hour before Obama and Biden arrived in Beaver. Noble never did hear Obama, as he was in state police custody until his release, and his firearm, which Noble said he has a permit for, was confiscated. When questioned as to the wisdom of wearing a firearm to a rally with metal detectors, Secret Service agents, and dozens of local law enforcement, Noble replied, “His (Obama’s) rights do not trump mine.” He added he’s worn the gun in public for several years without incident. Noble says he has an attorney, but said he’ll wait and see what charges he might face before deciding what course of action he’d take. In the news release, Schexnaildre described the nature of the incident as disorderly conduct, and wrote that Noble faces misdemeanor grade charges that will be filed by state police; no federal charges have been filed. Noble said his only previous criminal offense was “a speeding ticket while driving a church bus.” “If it was that serious of an offense (Friday), I would be in jail,” Noble said. Bill Vidonic can be reached online at bvidonic@timesonline.com. |
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Alexcabbie Regular Member 
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OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! If a politician is afraid or your firearm, he is not worthy of your vote. Maybe der SS is nervous, after all a plot to assassinate B. Hussein was just foiled. But really assasinating Ubama to keep him out of the White House is like shooting out all the streetlights so the sun will go down. Ubama Alexandria HQ just opened up shop right across the street from me and I have made a point to walk up and down the sreet strapped EVERY DAY. And if I get arrested for a crime that does not exist I will by the Living God who made me absolutely SUE THE LIVING CRAP out of each and every person who violated my God-given rights. And that poor schmoe in PA should do the same. This news has pissed me off beyond belief.  |
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mvpel Regular Member
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Say goodbye career, Mr. Schexnaildre. If only. Lon Horiuchi got promoted after he shot a woman holding a baby in the head, so what makes you think that lying to the media is going to affect any cop's career? Hell, lying on the witness stand rarely does. |
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Cowboy_Rick Regular Member
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Then, VOTE for McCain-his VP is a LIFE MEMBER of the NRA, FRIEND of the COURT in the HELLER decision,Avid Hunter, Pro Life and a "STRAIGHT SHOOTER" not bad McCain won when everyone says that John McCain asked her to be his V.P. on the ticket! That's all I'll have to do with POLITICS. |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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A turd cannot be polished. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Doug Huffman wrote: A turd cannot be polished. There will always be those that will try. They are the ones will dirty hands! Yata hey |
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longwatch Founder's Club Member
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Doug Huffman wrote: A turd cannot be polished.But it can be bronzed. Sorry OT. Last edited on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 04:37 pm by longwatch |
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hsmith Regular Member 
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. So, if he OC's all the time - how is he to know when he will be arrested for not breaking the law? You can predict the future?  |
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hsmith Regular Member
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And how ironic he was passing out literature TO PROTECT THE 2ND AMENDMENT and he gets his 2nd amendment right RUN OVER! It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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I disagree OT. These are very apt metaphors for the GOP VP choice in that she was chosen to bring luster (metallic polish) to an otherwise lack-luster campaign between lesser weevils. |
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Huck Regular Member 
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Pa. Patriot wrote: no carry permit ? wrote:I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. The false messiah was'nt even in town yet. This makes me wonder what's next. Are the cops going to be told to sieze all privately owned firearms in a town just because a friggin politico is going to visit? "Newspaper report fails to note that no permit is needed to open carry in Pennsylvania and most states" Since when has the lib media ever truthfully or accuratly reported on anything involving firearms? |
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SGT Jensen State Researcher 
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Idiocy. TJ and I went to a Ron Paul Rally in Salt Lake City, and shook Dr. Paul's hand while openly armed.  The police and security just looked at us and smiled.  |
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MomTeacherFarmerHunter Regular Member 
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Would it be at all possible for us to change our line of conversation to that of what your opinions are on plans of action rather than political views? I don't mind reading about political views, however in this situation I would find it much more interesting to hear what you all think as far as plans of action or nonaction for that matter. Thank you Pa Patriot for all of your assistance and for those of you who have stepped up to provide some 'real' support for an overall good guy. I may be a bit biased on Mtn Jack's behalf-as he has taught me many lessons in life, love, law and in education in general, but one thing I know is that he was not there to make a scene or cause a disturbance, but rather to educate others on their rights as Americans. Although I may be new to this forum I have heard about this group for years and have come to respect the things that you have to say. Mtn. Jack will be taken care of and supported undoubtedly as he would support any of you in similiar situations. I will lend my ears to hear more of your knowledge. Thanks again! |
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Mike Super Moderator
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SECRET SERVICE CONFIRMS: Jack never entered event area! SNIP Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble. "Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said. -- http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08244/908415-57.stm Gun-rights advocate arrested at rally of 30 Sunday, August 31, 2008 By Milan Simonich, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette A Beaver County man who regularly wears a pistol on his hip says police violated his rights by arresting him before a rally featuring Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama. "I am a threat to no one. Mr. Obama doesn't trump my constitutional rights. The president of the United States doesn't trump my constitutional rights," said John Noble, who was handcuffed, questioned for about two hours and then told by state police that he would receive two citations by mail for disorderly conduct. Mr. Noble, 50, of Industry, said he wore his Glock 19 in a holster when he entered Irvine Park in Beaver more than an hour before Mr. Obama arrived for a campaign appearance Friday night. "I had a Bible in one hand and an apple in the other. I was going to pass out my fliers [on the rights of law-abiding Americans to carry guns], but I never got the chance." State police in Beaver County referred questions about Mr. Noble's arrest to Trooper Shawn Schexnaildre,of New Castle, who was on the security detail in the park. He did not respond to calls for comment. Jim Gehr, agent in charge of the U.S. Secret Service field office in Pittsburgh, said the federal agency did not file any charges against Mr. Noble. "Our people did talk to him. He never entered the event area," Agent Gehr said. Mr. Noble said four or five state troopers and sheriff's deputies, plus a police dog, descended on him after someone noticed him wearing his pistol. Mr. Noble was hard to miss, as he stands 6 feet 3 and weighs 280 pounds. He said he did not curse, act up or defy the officers, but they charged him with being disorderly. Mr. Noble said police had to come up with something after they realized he was a law-abiding man on a campaign for handgun owners. He said they held him for 40 minutes in a Secret Service vehicle, then took him to the Beaver barracks of the state police for questioning. "They cuffed me and it wasn't fun. My arms are as big as sewer pipes," he said. Police eventually read him his rights. They also confiscated his pistol. "Didn't even give me a receipt for it. There were lots of violations of my constitutional rights," he said. After his arrest, his wife, Janet, handed out his fliers . Mr. Noble said he is a member of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association, which uses a line from the state Constitution as something of a motto: "The right of the people to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be questioned." In a posting on the organization's Web site before the Obama rally, Mr. Noble announced to fellow members that he was taking his pistol to the event to test what would happen. "I didn't think I'd get within a mile of the rally," he said later. Still, he maintains that everything he did was legal. The Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association says an adult pedestrian carrying a handgun in plain sight does not need a license, except in Philadelphia and in places where pistols are specifically prohibited by law. After police arrested Mr. Noble, they could not confiscate his gun without his help. He had to activate a security device to withdraw the loaded Glock from its holster. Mr. Noble said he and his lawyer were considering their options regarding what he considers police misconduct. "I actually like Sen. Obama. But I haven't made up my mind on whether I'm going to vote for him or for Senator [John] McCain," the likely Republican nominee. Milan Simonich can be reached at msimonich@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1956. First published on August 31, 2008 at 12:00 am |
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Cocked and Locked Regular Member
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If he had been trying to display his weapon for the reasoning of the 2nd Amendment or using it as some form of statement, I would say he was asking for trouble inside a secured area, however........He was going about his normal routine in a legal area obeying the law in an area that he was within his full right to carry his side arm. This sickens me and shows exactly why our rights continue to go quietly away |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member 
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around.WRONG... Troll. Defending this man's actions is EXACTLY what open carry requires. Do you own a firearm? Do you OC, CC or both? I see you don't post your location either. I see the 'pro-gun' folks here have waved you around already a bit.  |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Trolls whither and blow away if you do not feed them.  Yata hey |
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HELEN Regular Member
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SHAME ON YOU,,THE ONLY THING JACK IS NUTS ABOUT IS PERTECTING YOUR'S AND MY "RIGHTS",,I'V KNOWN JACK FOR 20 PLUS YEARS AND HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR HIM,,AND WOULD STAND IN FRONT OF HIM IF NEEDED,,IF ARE PD KNEW THE LAW LIKE JACK THEY WOULD OF HELPED HIM PASS OUT THE FLYERS,,NOT THROW HIS BIBLE ON THE GROUND. |
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Thundar Regular Member
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This un-American crap just pisses me off. MTN Jack was never a threat to anybody. The JBTs were, and are, the threat to liberty and freedom. And what is this crap about permits? Maybe all the B.S. talk about permits will require a different solution. Long gun open carry outside of the perimeter comes to mind. Even state police, the S.S. and news reporters know that no permit is required for a rifle. Next time Obama or McCain comes to town, no Sig 229 in a holster. A Swedish Mauser on the shoulder. Why? Because I'm an American. |
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Overtaxed Regular Member 
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Any sort of gathering involving politicos seems to become a "temporary abrogation of rights zone" And said zones seem to get larger every year. Back in 2004, there were some real excesses during both parties' conventions. Huge exclusion zones, even to pedestrians, etc. Small merchants unfortunate enough to be inside of those areas suffered terribly because the convention-goers mostly attended catered private functions and high-end tony restaurants - they didn't buy sandwiches from the local deli, and clothes from the nearby haberdasher. Regular Folks were literally told to "stay away" from Boston... not that it was easy to get there with the major road closures, including an important highway artery that thousands of commuters use every day to get both into and *past* Boston on their way to other cities. One of the reasons I read or watched so little about both conventions this year, is that I didn't want to become ill after hearing talk of how the "little people" were being treated as potential enemy combatants in their own home cities. I hope to God my city never hosts a large political gathering of any type... because I don't waste my money on donations, or my time trying to network with politicians, or God Forbid getting into the politics myself, I know I won't be welcome in my own home town for the five or so days the Republicrats will have control of the place. |
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jbone Regular Member 
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SNIP: cuffed and shackled, read his rights, confiscate pistol. SNIP: receive two citations by mail. This is how Democrats view of the 2nd. First a man arrested in Denver Hotel because Pelosi was staying there, now this poor guy at an Obama event. What do they have up there sleeves for the next anti-gun display/media fest? [size= ] |
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gravedigger Regular Member
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This really makes me angry! Just because some leftist socialist anti-American Marxist dirt bag slithers into town, the cops toss the Constitution out of the window and arrest Mtn. Jack "just because." He was arrested, handcuffed, hauled away and questioned, and the damnedest thing about it is, there are NO REPERCUSSIONS and NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION taken for those keystone cops. If it is allowed to be just quietly put to rest, the cops will be given the message that putting a citizen through this sort of B.S. when he is LEGALLY EXERCISING HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT is acceptable. It is imperative that the details of this arrest be brought to the forefront, conservative TV, newspapers and radio, and we DEMAND that Obama acknowledge that the action was both illegal and unnecessary. There are no words to describe the loathing I hold for liberals. Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:54 am by gravedigger |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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gravedigger wrote: ... and the damnedest thing about it is, there are NO REPERCUSSIONS and NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION taken for those keystone cops. I wouldn't be so sure ... |
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hsmith Regular Member
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gravedigger wrote: This really makes me angry! Just because some leftist socialist anti-American Marxist dirt bag slithers into town, the cops toss the Constitution out of the window and arrest Mtn. Jack "just because." He was arrested, handcuffed, hauled away and questioned, and the damnedest thing about it is, there are NO REPERCUSSIONS and NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION taken for those keystone cops. If it is allowed to be just quietly put to rest, the cops will be given the message that putting a citizen through this sort of B.S. when he is LEGALLY EXERCISING HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT is acceptable. It is imperative that the details of this arrest be brought to the forefront, conservative TV, newspapers and radio, and we DEMAND that Obama acknowledge that the action was both illegal and unnecessary. There are no words to describe the loathing I hold for liberals. To be fair this isn't an "Obama" only thing - look at the "free speech zones" setup with Bush. Look at the raids of protesters houses for the RNC convention. The detention on protesters in Denver for the DNC convention. It isn't a Democrat or Republican thing - it is a "Leaders" who hate the citizens thing. |
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mvpel Regular Member
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Look at the raids of protesters houses for the RNC convention. I'll agree with you on abusive "free speech zones" designed to prevent politicians from having to look at signs critical of their policies, but on this point, I don't think you're on target. If you look at the physical violence and destruction that the radical left has unleashed against their political enemies - WTO in Seattle, the "Recreate 68" push for this year, the 2004 protests in NYC, the violence during anti-war protests, the beatings of conservatives - it's only common sense to try to head it off sooner than the point at which you're giving the order to fire the tear gas canisters. The 1999 WTO cost to Seattle in direct and indirect costs came to nearly $30 million, plus settlements paid to people who had their civil rights violated during the chaos of the police operations. I don't think that the police should ignore evidence of planned, organized violence, which is what not doing that raid would have amounted to. Here's what the people raided planned, according to their own website: http://volokh.com/posts/1220218012.shtml Tier One: Establish 15-20 blockades, utilizing a diversity of tactics, creating an inner and outer ring around St. Paul’s Excel Center, where the RNC is to take place. Should the police sit by and do nothing?
Basically, a totalitarian mindset. Use the freedoms of America to destroy the freedoms of America. Anyone else here read The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind? Magic = Freedom? Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 04:50 pm by mvpel |
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gravedigger Regular Member
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hsmith wrote: gravedigger wrote:This really makes me angry! I agree 100%, but this particular incident involved Obama's presence or pending presence. |
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rscottie Regular Member 
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(Edit: Oops, sorry, the response below is to "No Carry Permit - I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around." Need to figure out how to put it in the white box...sorry) I have been a lurker for a while now, reading and digesting. I could not just holler at my computer when I read what this gentleman wrote. I would like to know exactly what this man was doing for YOU to refer to him as a "nutcase"? Was it the gun on his hip? Was it the Bible in his hand? The Apple? Or was it perhaps the Pro-Gun Literature that he was intending to hand out? His was a political statement, what better place to do it than NEAR a Political Rally? If the biggest thing you worry about is what the anti's think, you should get a spine. To the others, sorry for the rant. Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:09 pm by rscottie |
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cccook Founder's Club Member 
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Speaking for myself as one of the others, no apology is necessary. I think you're right on the money. Welcome to the OCDO board. I think it was a good rant. Rage on rscottie. Clear thoughts are always welcome here. Last edited on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:42 pm by cccook |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Just got word that Jack's situation is being discussed right now on KDKA Pittsburg (CBS) http://kdka.com/ On the Mry Griffin (sp?) show. Apparently they are taking callers and there have been some giving 100% incorrect info out in regards to the legality of OC I do not have high speed access right now so I can't get any stream... We need locals to check this out and hopefuly call in. |
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Count Founder's Club Member
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I hope Mr. Noble will file a civil lawsuit. This is so outrageous. Police have to swear they will uphold the Constitution, the laws, and ordinances (if local police). This reminds me of a police state... isn't that what Obama wants? |
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SlackwareRobert Regular Member
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Get the SS also, they violated his rights by... 1. Holding him when they had no jurisdiction. (unless it was a federal park) 2. Not returning his firearm after they determined he was no threat. 3. Handing him over to local police (mob) who were then going to violate his civil rights. If he was already disarmed by local police, then by what justification can he be put in federal custdy whithout being charged with something. I just wish he was carrying the new Heller Memorial Pistol, and yes it is a memorial pistol, or all this wouldn't be happening. |
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kb0tpz Regular Member
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hey Mike, can you give me information on what I need to do to start an open carry movement here in mo, I know that in some places you can and others you can not but I think it should be the same in the whole state? Mark |
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Tucker6900 Regular Member 
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. First off. I think you picked the wrong forum to post that nonsense. What exactly makes him a nutcase? Is it because he was armed? Open Carrying? Carrying a bible? What? It seems that the government decides to make up the laws as they go along. I know for a fact that both this gentleman here, and the one in Denver, were well within their rights to be doing what they were doing. The man in Denver was arrested only because there was a politician in the building. And the same happened in PA. HE WAS IN A PUBLIC PLACE, WITHIN THE LAW! Will someone please keep us up to date on what is going on with this case? I think its time for an answer as to why we keep getting our rights trampled on by the very people SWORN TO UPHOLD AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION!!! |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Tucker6900 wrote: Will someone please keep us up to date on what is going on with this case? What case? Colorado? Pennsylvania? You need to be more specific in your posts - and also, maybe finding out this information and posting it would be a good job for you to do. |
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Gray Coyote Regular Member
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don't make this about obahma or Pa this guy was lookink for trouble and he found it.the same thing would have happened at a mccain ralley. |
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SlackwareRobert Regular Member
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Then why didn't the same thing happen at the Ron Paul rally. Unless you agree that the SS and LEO are only doing what the politico wants them to do. Which is violate the rights of citizens because we dare to challege the non existing authority of double standards. No this is a clear case of we are not going to allow people to go about there lives without aknowledging the king. Obama could have scheduled a rally where guns are not allowed, DC comes to mind. And he wonders why angry guys are clinging to thier guns, and religion. It's becuase of government, not inspite of it! |
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Theseus Founder's Club Member 
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Gray Coyote wrote: don't make this about obahma or Pa this guy was lookink for trouble and he found it.the same thing would have happened at a mccain ralley. He was looking for trouble? Because doing something that is completely legal and informing people about your political beliefs makes one guilty of looking for trouble? Obvisouly driving your car and honking your horn at a "Honk is your horny" sticker means you must be looking for trouble too. .. The most point is that he was legal! Not about what people don't agree with! WTF don't you people understand?? Someone doing something legal is not asking for trouble or and is not crazy! (Well, maybe they are...but not neccessarily because he is excersising his legal right within the law.) Last edited on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 08:40 pm by Theseus |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Gray Coyote wrote: ...this guy was lookink for trouble and he found it. Can you provide citations of fact to support this claim? |
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HELEN Regular Member
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IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN AT ANY RALLY,,IT DON'T MATTER WHO IS SPEAKING,,JACK HAS THE RIGHT TO CARRY,,JUST AS HE DOES EVERY DAY ,,PD DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE UP RULES AS THEY GO,,BEAVER COUNTY (PD'S)IS WELL KNOWN FOR MAKING UP THE RULES AS THEY GO AND IT'S TIME FOR THEM TO LEARN THEY ARE GOVEREND BY THE SAME LAWS AS WE THE PEOPLE THEY ARE TO PERTECT,,I HAD A COP RIP MY TAPE RECORDER OFF MY SHIRT AND SHUT IT OFF,,THAN WAS THRETENED TO BE CUFFED AND STUFFED FOR RECORDING THEM ON PUBLIC PROPERTY,,THIS KIND OF INJUSTICE MUST BE STOPED AND MY ONLY REGRETS IS THAT I DID NOT GO WITH JACK WHEN HE ASKED ME TO ATTEND THIS RALLY |
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Gray Coyote Regular Member
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I C.C. all the time because I don't want people to look at me . If I want to be noticed I'd O.C. and then have to deal with it.wrong place and time to O.C. now he has to deal with it.I just think there are better ways to get your point accross. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Gray Coyote wrote: I C.C. all the time because I don't want people to look at me . If I want to be noticed I'd O.C. and then have to deal with it.wrong place and time to O.C. now he has to deal with it.I just think there are better ways to get your point accross. So, keep you rights in the closet eh? |
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chrsjhnsn Regular Member
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"about obahma or Pa this guy was lookink for trouble and he found it" UH, yeah suuuure. Just like women wearing skirts are asking to be raped, interacial couples are also asking for trouble in your country too, aren't they? |
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hsmith Regular Member
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Gray Coyote wrote: I C.C. all the time because I don't want people to look at me . If I want to be noticed I'd O.C. and then have to deal with it.wrong place and time to O.C. now he has to deal with it.I just think there are better ways to get your point accross. Like when it is 100% legal and police arrest you for no reason? |
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CowboyKen Regular Member 
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SlackwareRobert wrote: Then why didn't the same thing happen at the Ron Paul rally. Do you think maybe because he was not under Secret Service protection? Ken |
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BB62 State Researcher
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HELEN wrote: IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN AT ANY RALLY,,IT DON'T MATTER WHO IS SPEAKING,,JACK HAS THE RIGHT TO CARRY,,JUST AS HE DOES EVERY DAY ,,PD DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE UP RULES AS THEY GO,,BEAVER COUNTY (PD'S)IS WELL KNOWN FOR MAKING UP THE RULES AS THEY GO... Helen, You should consider posting using proper capitalization - it makes things much more readable. Also, using all caps in posts is considered SHOUTING. |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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... And that SS 'protection' extends... how far? Nahhh... Jack was effectively (Illegally) 'silenced' for political reasons using surrogate PA-SP. He was intimidated... arrested for convience... had his property siezed and confiscated (Illegally), questioned (Interrogated) illegally and generally kept out of the way (Falsely imprisoned) and quiet for the duration of the annointed one's presence. Dissent is not allowed in the Obama world. Anybody thinks otherwise has their head up their ass. Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 01:17 am by Sonora Rebel |
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Shotgun Founder's Club Member 
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Gray Coyote wrote: lookink for troubleGeneral Burkhalter? Attached Image (viewed 427 times): |
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Comp-tech State Researcher 
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CowboyKen wrote: SlackwareRobert wrote:Then why didn't the same thing happen at the Ron Paul rally. No....it was because of Dr. Pauls stance on personal liberty and freedom....period. |
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HELEN Regular Member
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NOT GOOD AT TYPING AND NEVER TAKE THE CAPS OFF |
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KBCraig Regular Member
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Gray Coyote wrote: I C.C. all the time because I don't want people to look at me . If I want to be noticed I'd O.C. and then have to deal with it.wrong place and time to O.C. now he has to deal with it.I just think there are better ways to get your point accross.So, to get your point across, you don't let anyone know what your point is? You carry concealed through a crowd and then think, "Heh! I really made my point today!" Is that how it works? |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote: ... And that SS 'protection' extends... how far? Nahhh... Jack was effectively (Illegally) 'silenced' for political reasons using surrogate PA-SP. He was intimidated... arrested for convience... had his property siezed and confiscated (Illegally), questioned (Interrogated) illegally and generally kept out of the way (Falsely imprisoned) and quiet for the duration of the annointed one's presence. Dissent is not allowed in the Obama world. Do you think it will be different at a McCain rally? Ken |
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KBCraig Regular Member
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CowboyKen wrote: SlackwareRobert wrote:Then why didn't the same thing happen at the Ron Paul rally. Police escorted Ron Paul at every rally and event he attended. If he had requested SS protection, he would have gotten it. In this incident in Pennsylvania, it was local and state police who initiated the contact and detained Jack. They notified SS and consulted with them, but it was Pennsylvania police proffering Pennsylvania charges both at the beginning, and in the end. SS protection really had nothing to do with it. |
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T Dubya Activist Member 
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Someone pointed out earlier that certain members are feeding trolls. I agree. Anyone that gets on this website which is named OPENCARRY.ORG and bashes open carry is a troll and is not one of us. I don't want to take anything from John, cause he's the Godfather. I just have to give extra kudos to Mike who has done a wonderful job for the movement with getting OCDO in the media. It looks to me that the press our beloved forum and movement have been getting has attracted the trolls and the naysayers that feel obligated to tell us where we are going wrong with following the letter of the law while excercising our civil right. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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KBCraig wrote: CowboyKen wrote:SlackwareRobert wrote:Then why didn't the same thing happen at the Ron Paul rally. Do you think it will be different at a McCain rally? Ken |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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T Dubya wrote: Someone pointed out earlier that certain members are feeding trolls. I agree. Anyone that gets on this website which is named OPENCARRY.ORG and bashes open carry is a troll and is not one of us. +1 Sometimes the goal is simply to occupy your time with responding to follishness. Other times the intent is to get you angry and say something in a manner that is out of character - and will garner you and OCDO negative coverage/press elsewhere. Even speaking/posting unkindly to them can be used to show our alledged intolerance to other ideas. My recommendation: Ignore trolls - they whither and blow away if not fed ! Yata hey |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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CowboyKen wrote: Sonora Rebel wrote:... And that SS 'protection' extends... how far? Nahhh... Jack was effectively (Illegally) 'silenced' for political reasons using surrogate PA-SP. He was intimidated... arrested for convience... had his property siezed and confiscated (Illegally), questioned (Interrogated) illegally and generally kept out of the way (Falsely imprisoned) and quiet for the duration of the annointed one's presence. Dissent is not allowed in the Obama world. Yeah... BECAUSE Jack wasn't within' their PERIMETER... whatever that was s'posed to encompass. The whole county apparently. |
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no carry permit ? Regular Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote: no carry permit ? wrote:I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around.WRONG... Troll. Defending this man's actions is EXACTLY what open carry requires. Do you own a firearm? Do you OC, CC or both? I see you don't post your location either. I see the 'pro-gun' folks here have waved you around already a bit. Yep, everyone that doesn't agree with you and a few other board bullies is a troll. Yes I open carry daily. No I don't fault law enforcement for doing what they did in this case. Some of you folks are just a little too much into "in your face" activism for ego gratification. Immature and very BAD strategy in the long term. We can't be known as the group of nuts that shows up around presidential candidates carrying guns, encourages the murder of police officers (if they violate our "rights" ) and other assorted bizarre behavior that I have witnessed in my short time here. I believe some of you crazies are just intentionally attempting to paint gun owners in bad light. I stand by my original analysis of Mr. Jack Nutcase. He was trying to provoke an incident, and in that environment that is foolish. I hope he learned his lesson. Show up around the president's security perimeter carrying a gun and there is a high possibility that you will be killed. The secret service isn't going to play around with a bunch of nuts with a point to prove. There is a right and wrong way to go about advancing open carry and some of you guys need to think about that. I realize most of you are ALL talk and really wouldn't shoot a police officer, but all this tough guy BS needs to stop. Some of you guys are tarnishing open carry. Carry your gun, use your brain and cool it with the John Wayne bull@#$%. |
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longwatch Founder's Club Member
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Did somebody say something, oh you're still here? Just go away, no one is interested in your defeatist POV. |
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Alexcabbie Regular Member
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no carry permit ? wrote: Sonora Rebel wrote:no carry permit ? wrote:I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around.WRONG... Troll. Defending this man's actions is EXACTLY what open carry requires. Do you own a firearm? Do you OC, CC or both? I see you don't post your location either. I see the 'pro-gun' folks here have waved you around already a bit. Did I miss something?? I don't remember reading anybody advocating the MURDER OF AN LEO under any circumstance. Look, friend Ubama's Alexandria office is directly across the street from my residence. If His Eloquent Eminence decides to honor his vassals with a visit I may be faced with a "security perimeter" that comes up to my door. I am not about to eff mit der S.S. If they arrive suddenly while I am coming home from the bank or from lunch or whatever and I am armed I'll just have to leave my weapon locked in the console of the Jeep or the glove compartment of my cab or if I am walking just quietly detour down the alley and put it in the trunk before I go in. If I am going out, I'll just have to go out unarmed. But if I am bothered outside the perimeter I will cooperate; and if I am arrested on a phony charge I will as I have said sue the crap out of all and sundry involved. But I will cooperate nonetheless and be polite. And remember everything done and said, all the better to sue them with. I am no "John Wayne" and the bullets in my weapon are reserved exclusively for the protection of precious innocent life and limb, or for the local range where I go to shoot for practice and fun. Icertainly am not gonna MURDER anyone and neither is anyone else here. Right, guys?? |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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"encourages the murder of police officers (if they violate our "rights" ) " You're fulla crap bunkie. NOBODY even suggested anything of the sort. You haven't the foggiest of what this is all about do ya? Not the first clue. I don't think yer so much a troll as a total 'Tool'. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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Alexcabbie wrote: Did I miss something?? I don't remember reading anybody advocating the MURDER OF AN LEO under any circumstance. Look, friend Ubama's Alexandria office is directly across the street from my residence. If His Eloquent Eminence decides to honor his vassals with a visit I may be faced with a "security perimeter" that comes up to my door. I am not about to eff mit der S.S. If they arrive suddenly while I am coming home from the bank or from lunch or whatever and I am armed I'll just have to leave my weapon locked in the console of the Jeep or the glove compartment of my cab or if I am walking just quietly detour down the alley and put it in the trunk before I go in. If I am going out, I'll just have to go out unarmed. But if I am bothered outside the perimeter I will cooperate; and if I am arrested on a phony charge I will as I have said sue the crap out of all and sundry involved. But I will cooperate nonetheless and be polite. And remember everything done and said, all the better to sue them with. I am no "John Wayne" and the bullets in my weapon are reserved exclusively for the protection of precious innocent life and limb, or for the local range where I go to shoot for practice and fun. Icertainly am not gonna MURDER anyone and neither is anyone else here. Right, guys?? WOW!! A completely reasonable post. Thank you. And an expectation of behavior a little different from what Mr. Noble engaged in. I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. Ken |
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Alexcabbie Regular Member
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Well, thankee Cowboy. But I wasn't being critical of Mtn Jack, I was just perturbed at the OP saying that some on this post had advocated murder of an LEO. My reasonable behavior example was what I would do if I had to cross a seurity perimeter to get inside my front door or go outside. Mr. Noble IMHO has a case for a lawsuit as he was arrested for what was no crime at all as it turns out. I certainly try as I am sure everyone here does to avoid breaking the law; and if there are laws I do not like I either try and change them or put up with them. As I have said before I much prefer over |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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Alexcabbie wrote: Well, thankee Cowboy. ... Mr. Noble IMHO has a case for a lawsuit as he was arrested for what was no crime at all as it turns out. I certainly try as I am sure everyone here does to avoid breaking the law; and if there are laws I do not like I either try and change them or put up with them. As I have said before I much prefer You are most welcome. Mr. Noble is certainly ABLE to sue, however, in my opinion, he has little chance of winning. While I completely agree that he broke no law at all, given his proximity to the appearance of a protected political candidate, I think the courts will find that it was not unreasonable for the authorities to detain him and conduct an investigation under the circumstances. JMHO. YMMV. But if that is the finding I don't think he will win any kind of financial award. Ken |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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We shall see, we shall see. Yata hey |
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ianto94 Regular Member
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To detain someone requires probably cause that a crime has been or is being committed. Detain is equivalent to arrest. Here Mountain Jack was arrested for doing what is not a crime. That is called false arrest. And false arrest is a tort. One can sue for damages for a tort. This tort is an intentional tort for which punitive damages will lie. I for one hope that MJ sues Beaver County and collects a large judgement or settlement, not to mention getting his gun back. |
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cccook Founder's Club Member
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CowboyKen wrote: Mr. Noble is certainly ABLE to sue, however, in my opinion, he has little chance of winning. While I completely agree that he broke no law at all, given his proximity to the appearance of a protected political candidate, I think the courts will find that it was not unreasonable for the authorities to detain him and conduct an investigation under the circumstances. JMHO. YMMV. But if that is the finding I don't think he will win any kind of financial award. I recognise that you feel MTN Jack's actions were ill-advised. My impression is that most others here disagree. IMO the State Police have some 'splainin' to do. Last edited on Sat Sep 13th, 2008 07:07 am by cccook |
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Mike Super Moderator
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CowboyKen wrote: I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. You mean peacefull completely lawful behavior? |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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ianto94 wrote: To detain someone requires probably cause that a crime has been or is being committed. Detain is equivalent to arrest. Here Mountain Jack was arrested for doing what is not a crime. That is called false arrest. And false arrest is a tort. One can sue for damages for a tort. This tort is an intentional tort for which punitive damages will lie. I for one hope that MJ sues Beaver County and collects a large judgement or settlement, not to mention getting his gun back. To detain someone requires reasonable articulable suspicion (please read Terry). Detain is not equivalent to arrest. After the investigation was concluded, according to the published reports, the Secret Service handed him back to the State Police (probably with a request to keep him out of the way until after they were gone). I agree that he did not break any law by open carrying in public in PA. The State Police charged him, again IMO, as I have stated previously, just to have an excuse to take his gun. This may be found to have been an excess. I do not think that detaining him and investigating his reason for being there will be found to be unreasonable. I think both the Secret Service and the State Police will defend their actions if sued as the precedent is unacceptable to them. I don't think Mr. Noble will win much if anything and the expense may be too much for him to pursue it. I wish him luck. Ken |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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Mike wrote: CowboyKen wrote:I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. Yes. Ken |
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rodbender Founder's Club Member 
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CowboyKen wrote: Mike wrote:CowboyKen wrote:I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. I hope CowboyKen is not a Texan cowboy. Too many like him here and open carry will never pass. |
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ianto94 Regular Member
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CowboyKen wrote: ianto94 wrote:To detain someone requires probably cause that a crime has been or is being committed. Detain is equivalent to arrest. Here Mountain Jack was arrested for doing what is not a crime. That is called false arrest. And false arrest is a tort. One can sue for damages for a tort. This tort is an intentional tort for which punitive damages will lie. I for one hope that MJ sues Beaver County and collects a large judgement or settlement, not to mention getting his gun back. Terry involved an investigative stop, which at best is a temporary detention. Yes. It requires reasonable articulable suspicion. So suspicion of what here? Carrying a Bible without a license? Carrying a firearm openly is not a basis to suspect someone is violating the law since it is not a crime in PA. Now let's deal with the facts here. Person is carrying a gun openly, not a crime. Nevertheless, LEO suspects something, what no one has yet said? "Sir, why are you carrying a gun. " Answer: "Because I'm an American." That must have confirmed the suspicion because the next thing is: "Sir, you are under arrest." How is that defensible? Being an American gives the police probable cause to arrest? What exactly does Beaver County need to defend; what precedent do they need to prevent being established. Arresting someone because they are an American? I don't get what precedent you think they would be concerned with other than they don't like open carry. Tough. And yeah, they will defend it, and they will not prevail because they made a false arrest. Disorderly conduct? That's a laugh. So far he has not been cited and he won't be. What might happen is they will negotiate no to charge him and agree to give him his gun back if he does not sue. I hope he says stick it. As for the cost to sue, I expect Jack will be able to find an attorney to take it on principle or contingency. If I practiced in PA, I'd jump at the chance to represent him. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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rodbender wrote: CowboyKen wrote:Mike wrote:CowboyKen wrote:I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. Why is that, Texas? Do you disagree with what I said here? Many Texans have paid the price for doing what they believed was right. Are you not one of them? There is often a price for your actions that has nothing to do with breaking the law. Ken |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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ianto94 wrote:
So, you don't think that proximity to a "protectee" while showing a firearm qualifies as a reason to detain and investigate. And, as an attorney, you want to litigate. Please do. Ken |
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ianto94 Regular Member
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CowboyKen wrote: ianto94 wrote: Fact 1. he was not in proximity to a protectee. Fact 2. They did not detain, they arrested. Fact 3. Since I am not licensed in PA or practice there I could not litigate this even assuming Mountain Jack wanted to, but I think he should. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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ianto94 wrote: Fact 1. he was not in proximity to a protectee. Fact 2. They did not detain, they arrested. Fact 3. Since I am not licensed in PA or practice there I could not litigate this even assuming Mountain Jack wanted to, but I think he should. I wasn't there, but the reports I've read leave your "FACTS" somewhat in dispute. Ken |
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ianto94 Regular Member
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CowboyKen wrote: ianto94 wrote:I was not there either, but from what I understand Obama was due some time later, he was not in the restricted area and he was placed under arrest.Fact 1. he was not in proximity to a protectee. Fact 2. They did not detain, they arrested. Fact 3. Since I am not licensed in PA or practice there I could not litigate this even assuming Mountain Jack wanted to, but I think he should. |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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CowboyKen wrote:
Dispute by who? Cites please. |
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cccook Founder's Club Member
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CowboyKen wrote: I wasn't there, but the reports I've read leave your "FACTS" somewhat in dispute. We must have read different articles. Had I chosen to take the actions MTN Jack did, I personally would have anticipated that I might receive some "attention" from local authorities. I would not have expected to have my rights violated. Nor would it be reasonable for me to accept that they were without further action. Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 05:40 pm by cccook |
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rodbender Founder's Club Member
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CowboyKen wrote: rodbender wrote:CowboyKen wrote:Mike wrote:CowboyKen wrote:I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. You say you admire his intentions, then you denigrate him for it. You say he should have expected the treatment he got. Well, this is the part of the world that has a set of rules that says that if you are not breaking the law you should not be arrested. He was not breaking the law, he did not breech the secure area for the "Anointed One" and the Secret Service said so. The local police had already said he was under arrest and they were stuck. They had to do something to save face and didn't care if MJ was the one that had to pay the price for their error, as long as they didn't have to pay it. They probably figure that he will let it lie and be happy with getting his gun back at some later date. This is a blatant civil rights violation and should be scorned by all citizens of this great United States, including the "Chosen One", and most especially the LEO's. Yet there are people that will say things like "He deserved it". Well, FYI, he didn't deserve it and he should sue and if he decides to take this path, should prevail. The word will eventually get out to all LEO's and this kind of stuff will constrict to a minimum. There should never be a price to pay for obeying the law. In sum: I find it detestable that a citizen of this great United States has the opinion that another citizen should expect to get arrested while NOT breaking the law, even if said citizen is entitled to said opinion. I also find it extremely dangerous to have an over abundance of citizens with such an opinion. No, I am not advocating caging, expelling, or doing away with ones of this opinion. Let that be understood, please. This reminds me of a short poem that someone wrote about the happenings in Nazi Germany. I will try to locate it and post it. It has a great deal to do with citizens that are complacent and put too much trust in government. And here it is. It was actually a quote from a speech and there are many versions but they all seem to get the point across, I hope. First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me. Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 07:18 pm by rodbender |
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lockman State Researcher 
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If charges are brought under state law Mr. Noble will prevail unless the courts reverse all the current holdings on lawful firearms carry. As for civil court, a large a judgement is probably not going to happen but I am sure he will prevail. Like winning in principle but getting awarded a dollar in punitive damages. |
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frommycolddeadhands Regular Member 
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The arrest was bad. Cops can pull someone aside and ensure they aren't an assasin without arresting them and calling the feds. Feds seemed to handle it by the book. I have no beef with them on this one. Local PD realized they screwed the pooch and threw a disorderly conduct charge at a lawful citizen because they had no grounds to arrest him in the first place, and the politician they were concerned he might be a threat to hadn't even arrived in town at the time of his arrest. That about it? Yeah, he's got some grounds for a lawsuit against the local PD. Just put the arresting officer on the stand and ask him what the original arrest charge was when he put the cuffs on and watch him blather away about a possible threat to a politician who wasn't there. I'd pay to see it. -PS, did Jack ever get his gun back? |
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mvpel Regular Member
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New York State Troopers who arrested a man videotaping their activities on a public road from private property won $4,000 PERSONALLY in punitive damages from each of three troopers involved in the arrest, as I recall. Not to mention OCDO's very own Mark Machiavera, who won an undisclosed sum from the cops who falsely arrested him. Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 08:03 pm by mvpel |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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There are others here... who have been arrested for OC where 'legal' and awarded handsome sums. These LEO's skrood the pooch on this one... Actual Rights violated: 1A, 2A, 4A, 5A 'n 14A from what I can estimate. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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rodbender wrote: CowboyKen wrote:rodbender wrote:CowboyKen wrote:Mike wrote:CowboyKen wrote:I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. Sir, Just to make it clear, what I said, and what I didn't say; I didn't say I "admire his intentions." I said, "I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle." I did not "denigrate him for it," I did not denigrate him at all. I have not called anyone here any names, and I won't. I did not say "he should have expected the treatment he got." I suggested that he may have purposely put himself in the position he was in. I also said that if that was not the case then "he was unlucky." To both quote me and misquote me in the same post is interesting, but I think it may be disingenuous. Your opinion that the authorities have lied about what happened is one your are certainly entitled to hold, as it is your right to reach whatever conclusions you choose to reach. Again, IMO if you walk around, legally open carrying, in the vicinity of where a "protected" candidate is going to appear you might not be surprised if you are detained and questioned. If you truly think that "(t)his is a blatant civil rights violation," you may choose to act on it in whatever way you think is appropriate. Good luck. Ken |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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I reckon you're all about Status Quo then? Heh... you sure ain't no 'cowboy'... Ken. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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Sonora Rebel wrote: I reckon you're all about Status Quo then? Heh... you sure ain't no 'cowboy'... Ken. Sir, You do not know me or what I am "all about." And when you can ride my horse and walk in my boots (or out shoot me in mounted) then you can tell me I "ain't no 'cowboy'." I don't know you so I have no idea if you know what a cowboy is. I have been taught that you demonstrate what you are, or are not, by how you behave. Ken |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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SASS membership does not a 'cowboy' make. I dunno 'bout yer boots... but I could ride yer horse 'n pretty much hit stuff from the gallop with pistol or rifle. So? I could do that 40 years ago. The scars on my boots 'n chaps ain't from draggin' 'em off the back of my pick-up either. Ya don't think like any cowboys (or the modern equivelent... bikers) I know... from your writings anyway. Yer timid. You're too concerned with what other people think. Cowboys don't give a damn what anybody thinks... that's why they're cowboys... or bikers. That's why I live where I live... rather then Tucson with all that city stuff goin' on now. Didn't used to be that way... but... oh well, |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Notice how "Ken" continues to repest the fallacy that Jack was "detained", when in fact, he was ARRESTED. Yes, I know the 'legal' difference. Last edited on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 09:01 pm by Pa. Patriot |
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Theseus Founder's Club Member
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I think you are just arguing to argue now. The major point is that he WAS doing something "questionable" but WAS NOT doing anything "ILLEGAL". Police are not supposed to police morality, but law. We can argue all day long wether what he was doing was "wrong" or not, but what is most important is WHAT IS LEGAL! The police may have the right to be suspicious and ask the man what he was doing and why he was there. If he then did anything that gave them cause to believe that he was doing something illegal THEN they have cause to arrest. Anything is else is mere semantics and opinion. If police were to police morality and not the law than most all of us would be in jail, including the cops. |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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Theseus wrote: I think you are just arguing to argue now. Yer right. No more... no less. |
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rodbender Founder's Club Member
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CowboyKen wrote: rodbender wrote:CowboyKen wrote:rodbender wrote:CowboyKen wrote:Mike wrote:CowboyKen wrote:I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. While I did not quote you directly, I think you are splitting hairs over the difference between what I wrote and what you wrote. As far as denigrating him, I think your implication that it was a stupid idea says that he was stupid for carrying where it is perfectly legal to do so. Why would someone think this way? Would you expect to to get a ticket for not using your turn signal (without having made a turn or changed lanes) because you were going the speed limit? This is the way I take your reasoning and to tell you the truth, it's asinine. And the officer said, "Well, you are under arrest". Well, that ain't no detention, sir, that's a full blown arrest if I ever heard one. And they did take him to one of their facilities. If it were a dentention, they would not have removed him from the park. It does not matter what his intentions were as far as trying to see if he could get by with it or not. He broke no laws and should have been, at the very most, detained long enough to find out that he was simply there to pass out fliers and then left alone. If they wanted to keep an eye on him, well, that was their decision to make, and a lot wiser one I would say. |
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T Dubya Activist Member
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Someone lock this post already.......... P.S. there are some of you that are total tools. You know who you are. |
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SlackwareRobert Regular Member
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And lets not forget, rather than keeping an eye on someone handing out flyers about your rights as citizens... They also pulled security off of the perimitter, thus endagering the "secure zone" to breaches. So not only violate civil rights, also endagered said anointed one. I only encountered one zone, back in Regans day. I asked them why the police and metal detector. And then decided to not enter. Although I did question thier security when you can get in the back way by dropping 4 feet off the bridge down river. They were not happy with this revelation, and I went back to work. But I still think that handing him over to the local mob does put some liability on the SS. To hand over a citizen to an unrully mob bent on harming him does seem to violate federal standards. Would like to know if he argued not to be extrodited to local police custody, once safely in federal custody. Then the leo would have to show cause to a judge to get hold of him. Which would then have stopped it. |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Mike and I will be on the Bob Durgin show at 4PM today to discuss this incident and OC. http://www.whp580.com/pages/bdurgin.html (there is a "Listen Live" link top left) |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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T Dubya wrote: Someone lock this post already.......... That's what the 'Unwatch' button is for.... already. |
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HungSquirrel Regular Member
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Pa. Patriot wrote: Mike and I will be on the Bob Durgin show at 4PM today to discuss this incident and OC. Damn, I have a meeting at 4:00 ET. :/ |
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lildobe Regular Member 
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HungSquirrel wrote: Pa. Patriot wrote:Mike and I will be on the Bob Durgin show at 4PM today to discuss this incident and OC. I am capturing the stream, and I'll post it online within a few minutes of the end of the segment. I'll post a link here when it's ready. |
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HungSquirrel Regular Member
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Cool, thanks! This issue is important to me, as I have family and friends in the greater Pittsburgh area I'd like to visit. My AL CC permit is not valid in PA, so I must OC when I visit them next. |
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lildobe Regular Member
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http://thetimesnewsnow.com/2008/09/05/police-gunman-intended-to-disrupt-obama-rally/ Police: Gunman intended to disrupt Obama rally (2:32 PM) September 5, 2008 2:32 PM By Bill VidonicTimes Staff An Industry man intended to disrupt an Aug. 29 Barack Obama rally in Beaver by wearing a loaded gun holstered on his hip, state police said. Friday, state police charged John A. Noble, 50, of 1063 Willowbrook Drive, with one count each of disorderly conduct and disrupting meetings and processions. In court documents, state police wrote that Noble “came to this proceeding with an agenda and a plan,” as he posted on a Web site several days prior to the rally that he was going to take his gun “to test what would happen.” Once witnesses spotted Noble with his gun, nearly 90 minutes before Obama arrived in Irvine Park, Noble was taken into custody. After being interviewed by state police for a couple of hours, he was released, and his gun confiscated. State police and deputy sheriffs said Noble did not make any threats toward anyone, and did not try to reach for his gun when approached by officers. For additional information, see Saturday’s Times. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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If I take my truck to the park to see what will happen, will I be arrested? It seems like the same difference to me - even though he may have announced his intentions, he broke no laws. Yata hey |
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Mike Super Moderator
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lildobe wrote: http://thetimesnewsnow.com/2008/09/05/police-gunman-intended-to-disrupt-obama-rally/ HUH? Here is Noble's original and unedited posts - you decide if the state police are lying, again: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/general-2/31143-guns-bibles.html "Bring your gun and Bible to Beaver tonite, lets show Obama how we hug our Bibles and guns. On a different note Pres McCain picked a gun toten women from Ak as his running mate. This is going to be good. Stay safe Mtn Jack" http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/15521.html "Come to beaver tonite and show Obama what a Bible toten gun owner really looks like. My women and i will be there with both in the open. This is Obamas first stop after being picked in Co. Wow arnt we lucky. On a better note Pres elect McCain has picked a gun toten women from Ak to run as his vp. I wish they were here in stead of dayton Oh. Oh well be safe Mtn Jack" Last edited on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 10:00 pm by Mike |
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Count Founder's Club Member
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I think the biggest asset of this open carry movement is law enforcement education. If you ever want to hear a bunch of total non-sense about gun laws (I mean kindergarten kinda stupidity) call Las Vegas PD handgun division and talk to the lady in charge. ONLY by us standing up for our rights and demanding that law enforcement enforce laws, not make up laws, can we expect that one day we will be able to Open Carry without harrassment and false arrests. |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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The PSP are really digging a hole for themselves. First they manufacture that jack was inside the "secured perimeter" of the rally (counter to witness and Secret Service claims). The they try and charge with two inapplicable statutes. Now they claim he had intent that does not appear in his posting here: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/general-2/31143-guns-bibles.html And here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/15521.html Jack was clearly looking to let others know to come out and join him. No where did jack say he was going to disrupt a meeting. He did exactly what everyone else did that was congregating in Macintosh park and Quay Park. Making a statement. Instead of a sign he had a bible and a legally carried handgun in a holster that was never used to threaten, interrupt or disturb any meeting that he was not at. Man, the PSP in Center County is really out of control. We shall make sure they get properly schooled. Speaking of which...Now that he has been charged, (only took them a week :rolleyes Fundraiser information for Jacks legal defense will be disclosed tonight. |
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zoom6zoom Regular Member 
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Is it true that they threw his Bible on the ground? Too bad it wasn't a Koran, then he'd really be able to sue them. |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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Aside from the rest of this piece of disinformation...: "Once witnesses (Obama operatives?) spotted Noble with his gun, nearly 90 minutes before Obama arrived in Irvine Park, Noble was taken into custody. (Arrested) Witnesses can't take anybody into custody. Somebody dropped a dime. After being interviewed (Interrogated/questioned while under arrest w/o benefit of council.) (Was "Miranda' given at any time prior to this 'interview'?) by state police (Note intentional Omission of the SS role in this.) for a couple of hours, he was released, and his gun confiscated. (His gun was siezed on the spot.) What kind'a reporter hack is this Bill Vidonic character? Make it up as ya go along? |
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lildobe Regular Member
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Well, PA Patriot and Mike's interview got pushed back to Monday... Don't worry, I'll still be capturing it... lildobe wrote: HungSquirrel wrote:Pa. Patriot wrote:Mike and I will be on the Bob Durgin show at 4PM today to discuss this incident and OC. |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Legal defense fundraiser for Mtn Jack http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/31704-fundraiser-mountain-jack.html#post415729 |
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pro2A Regular Member 
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sccrref wrote: I can only hope that he files suit, wins and wins huge. Not only does he need to sue, he should go after the officers personally too. There has been enough of this suing the police department, suing the city etc... the problem with that is that those same beurocrats they are suing take it out of the tax payers wallet and it never effects them personally. When it begins to affect LEO's and politicians personally then this crap will come to a grinding hault. |
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mvpel Regular Member
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Lucky you weren't trying to put through a credit card charge with that clicking... |
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PrayingForWar Founder's Club Member 
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zoom6zoom wrote: Is it true that they threw his Bible on the ground? Too bad it wasn't a Koran, then he'd really be able to sue them. The ACLU would be torn then wouldn't they? Mr. Noble did a brave thing, and he should be lauded for it. I hope he wins his court cases, and I'm sure he doesn't even care about the money, it's about principle. |
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DonTreadOnMe Regular Member 
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Theseus wrote: I think you are just arguing to argue now. +1 |
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Alexcabbie Regular Member
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DonTreadOnMe wrote: Theseus wrote:I think you are just arguing to argue now. And a +1 from moi. Theseus who put a sword to the Minotaur knoweth how to cut the bull, fer sure. |
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HungSquirrel Regular Member
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Wow, a Greek mythology joke! I can now safely say I am not the biggest nerd here. |
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Alexcabbie Regular Member
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HungSquirrel wrote: Wow, a Greek mythology joke! I can now safely say I am not the biggest nerd here. You were nerd enough to understand the reference, now weren't you? |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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If y'all think that one must be a nerd to have some small grasp of mythology then please read The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/ 11MB .pdf |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Doug Huffman wrote: If y'all think that one must be a nerd to have some small grasp of mythology then please read The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt Linky no good. Yata hey |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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Grapeshot wrote:Linky no good. Yata hey Darn! You're right. Sorry. I am glad that I have both a searchable .pdf and the hard copy from Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/deliberate-dumbing-down-america-Chronological/dp/0966707109/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220877861&sr=1-1 |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Doug Huffman wrote: Grapeshot wrote:Linky no good. Yata hey Teeny tiny URLy thingies are nice too - they keep the page from getting so w - i - d - e http://tinyurl.com/ Now I am picking on you I guess - sorry - haven't had my coffe yet. Yata hey Last edited on Mon Sep 8th, 2008 02:08 pm by Grapeshot |
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Theseus Founder's Club Member
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So I don't get any credit for using it in the first place? Darn. |
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MetalChris Regular Member
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PrayingForWar wrote: zoom6zoom wrote:Is it true that they threw his Bible on the ground? Too bad it wasn't a Koran, then he'd really be able to sue them. Nah, because they'd just label him an Islamofascist extremist, since a gun was in the equation... |
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PrayingForWar Founder's Club Member
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MetalChris wrote: PrayingForWar wrote:zoom6zoom wrote:Is it true that they threw his Bible on the ground? Too bad it wasn't a Koran, then he'd really be able to sue them. I thought they were opposed to using the term "islamofascist", but I see your point, they are opposed to any american legally carrying a weapon. |
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SlackwareRobert Regular Member
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Maybe we are loking at this the wrong way..... How about an equal rights issue. Since there is no rite to police protection, how then can police have a rite to supersead law in the interest of protecting someone? If you take the gun angle away from the media pundants and put it into special treatment, they might understand the issue more. |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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Grapeshot wrote:Teeny tiny URLy thingies are nice too - they keep the page from getting so w - i - d - e http://tinyurl.com/ No problem. No offense. The page that I copied this from was of normal width for me, about 110 characters. But, just as I don't allow images or ads or avatars or smilies or icons or scripts in my computer, neither do I willy-nilly follow uninformative URLs. |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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SlackwareRobert wrote: If you take the gun angle away from the media pundants and ... 'Pundants' o pendejos? |
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Comp-tech State Researcher
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Grapeshot wrote: Doug Huffman wrote:If y'all think that one must be a nerd to have some small grasp of mythology then please read The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt Link works fine if you remove everything after .com in your browsers address bar....... |
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HungSquirrel Regular Member
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Doug Huffman wrote: SlackwareRobert wrote:If you take the gun angle away from the media pundants and ... Muy bien |
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Alexcabbie Regular Member
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Theseus wrote: So I don't get any credit for using it in the first place? Darn. Whoa, Bud. Didn't I give you credit for a rine summation of the whole matter?? I think that's a better testament to you than your choice of a login name! Whatever. How's this?? "Props to you, Theo". Summation or no the discussion continues but sso far no one is disputing your very good summary of the main question. So good job, Bull-slayer. |
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XD-GEM Activist Member 
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Doug Huffman wrote: SlackwareRobert wrote:If you take the gun angle away from the media pundants and ... Maybe he's making up a new word that's a cross between "pundit" and "pedant?" |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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Due to lack of practice I no longer speak even my childhood Mexican so I checked 'pendejos' meaning and was amazed and amused... First came pendejo (plural pendejos) 1. (slang, pejorative) A stupid person; a dumbass; creep. but that didn't sound right, not obscene enough. My memory was 'hanger' as 'I got your member hanging, pendejo.' So I looked a bit further Spanish Etymology Latin pectiniculus Noun pendejo m. 1. A pubic hair 2. (pejorative) A stupid person; a dumbass; creep. 3. (Argentina, Uruguay) punk (an adolescent who presumes to be an adult). 4. (Cuba) coward. Bingo for No. 1. Even poor old Wictionary succumbs to bland political correctness. As a kid, we used it idiomatically for 'member' and not of the NRA. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pendejo |
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Alexcabbie Regular Member
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Doug Huffman wrote: Due to lack of practice I no longer speak even my childhood Mexican so I checked 'pendejos' meaning and was amazed and amused... Spanish is a Latin-based language (English is German-based) and Pendejo has the same Latin root as "pendulum", that is something that awings back and forth. Pendejo also has a male connotation as it ends in "O". It amounts to calling someone a donkey d**k. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Alexcabbie wrote:
The English language draws more heavily on Latin and Greek than it does German. A great many of the root derivations, prefixes and suffixes originate in either Latin or Greek with some influence from the modern romance languages which are of course Latin based. A good scholarly education in Latin will benefit ones understanding of our language while such efforts applied to German will have considerably less benefit. To bring it back on thread a bit, many of the legal terms applied in perfecting charges for alledged violations are referred to in Latin phrases. Yata hey Last edited on Tue Sep 9th, 2008 01:51 am by Grapeshot |
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DarrelM Regular Member
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rodbender wrote: CowboyKen wrote:rodbender wrote:CowboyKen wrote:rodbender wrote:CowboyKen wrote:Mike wrote:CowboyKen wrote:I admire Mr. Noble's dedication to principle, but that kind of behavior may have a price. Hello All, I am a CHL holder in Dallas TX, For What it is worth on this particular day I can not same that I blame the local LEO's for talking to Mr. Noble, considering that there was going to be a presidential candidate in the are in very short time but here is how I think it should have gone down LEO(s) - Sir may we have a word with you? Mr. Noble - of how can I help you gentlemen? LEO - Well sir it has been brought to our attention that you are wearing a firearm here today, and we know that you are not breaking the LAW by doing so, but given today we are having a presidential candidate in town in a couple of hours, would you mind placing you firearm in your vehicle until this is over with? Again we know you have not broken any laws but it tends to make it the SS a little nervous. Mr. Noble - ok thanks I will either leave the area or take it to my car LEO - lets Mr. Noble go and thanks him for his cooperation and wishes he a good afternoon. Again I do not think Mr. Noble did anything wrong nor did he deserve to be treated the way he was treated. I wish that more people were educated better about those of us that choose to carry ( in what ever fashion) we don't do so because we are out looking for problems and want to hurt any one we just want the ability to protect ourselves, our families and the other inocent people around us. I also wish that the press would not go out of thier way to paint such a bad picture and for once would report the truth about how things are instead of painting us out to be a bunch of hot heads that is just looking for a fight. I can understand the Local LEO's aking mr. Noble for some ID and to maybe even run a BG check on him after all he could be a bad guy in disguise, but once they found that he was not wanted or a felon or anyother thing of that nature that should have sent him on his way. So many people only here the bad about firearms because bad stuff sells the news, but They don't here how the presence of someone with a firearms has prevented a rape or mugging, or has defused a bad situation. A firearms does not have a mind of its own, it does not feel, breathe, hurt etc.. It is a tool just a a wrench is a tool ot a hammer. If I was facing a bad guy and was protecting my self or family etc.. i would use what ever I could get my hands on to do so weather it was a baseball bat, a treee limb a firearm knife, pen Pencil, etc they are just tools nothing more nothing else. I hope under the circmstance that Mr. Noble decides to follow through with a false arrest claim and that he walks away with a win and of course either way gets a public appoloogy as well as his weapon back. Thank you, DM |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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DarrelM wrote:snip.... First welcome to OCDO. Above daydream is a nice thought but it did not go down that way! LEO -Why are you carrying that? Mtn Jack - Because I'm an American. LEO - Well you are under arrest! How large of a secret security zone exists - 300 ft ?, 1000 ft ? 1 mile? Mtn Jack was not within a secured area - he violated no laws. I know the thread is long - 8 pages worth but it would behoove you to read it all. Not trying to make you feel unwelcome, I can tell your heart and sympathies are in the right place. Yata hey |
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Mack 12ga. Regular Member 
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What I would like to know is how many people where arrested for concealed carry ? wouldn't they be more of a threat ?? Just because he had a gun that was legal for him to carry doesn't give the LEO's the right to ask anyone to leave just because it makes them nerves. He was well with in his right and if they where so worried about his gun in the holster they could have just as easily canceled the Obomanation from speaking at the rally and had it out in the desert where they could have secured a fifty mile radius so no one could get close enough to put him outa our misery. The bottom line is we shouldn't have to adjust our rights to soot them, so long as he wasn't a threat, they could do nothing not even ask his name, this is not to say they couldn't have come up and just started a conversation with him just to gather info and be polite. BUT IN NO WAY COULD THEY HAVE DONE WHAT THEY DID AND GET AWAY WITH IT. And I also believe he should sue every one from state to the men packin badges!!!!!!!!! Last edited on Tue Sep 9th, 2008 04:48 pm by Mack 12ga. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Way to much unneeded quoted copy. Need to either just "Reply" or learn to edit. It makes for difficult reading and takes away from your post - IMO. Yata hey |
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Mack 12ga. Regular Member
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Yep your rite hows that ,, |
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mvpel Regular Member
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If only it weren't so vexing to delete nested quote tags in WYSIWYG mode... |
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Thundar Regular Member
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DarrelM wrote: Hello All, I am a CHL holder in Dallas TX, For What it is worth on this particular day I can not same that I blame the local LEO's for talking to Mr. Noble, considering that there was going to be a presidential candidate in the are in very short time but here is how I think it should have gone down An alternative for the activist: LEO(s) - Sir may we have a word with you? Activist - Am I being detained? LEO - No sir, but it has been brought to our attention that you are wearing a firearm here today, and we know that you are not breaking the LAW by doing so, but given today we are having a presidential candidate in town in a couple of hours, would you mind placing you firearm in your vehicle until this is over with? Again we know you have not broken any laws but it tends to make it the SS a little nervous. Activist- ok thanks. You have already indicated that I am violating no law. That information has been recorded for any future legal use I may have for it. I will continue my lawful behavior. Have a good day officer. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Whaat! Do you think the situation would have played out any differently? IMO - it would have gone down exactly the same and Mtn Jack would have been arrested and charged without cause. As for me, I am perfectly willing to see this work its way through the system and I look forward to the results. Personally, I hope Mtn Jack at least needs a new truck. Yata hey |
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Rob62 Regular Member
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I had planed on posting more than this, but am pretty speechless about the whole incident. This is what I wrote on another forum. My prediction is that he, Mr. Noble, will not be charged. He will then sue the government for infringement of his rights. This court case will drag out for years and YEARS - because the government has unlimited legal resources (read taxpayer $$). Ultimately, he will win his case. There will be a ruling that the government did do a bad thing. And Mr Noble or his kids, if he does not live long enough to see the court outcome, will get a sizable amount of money. Then in a few years after that someone else legally open CCWing, if its still legal then, will get arrested and the whole process will repeat itself. Yes, I am being pessimistic today. FWIW - The same thing would probably have happened at a McCain rally. Rob |
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SlackwareRobert Regular Member
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The only thing dumber than the police is that reporter that thinks you can trample a constitutional right if someone else thinks there might be a percieved violatin of thier rights. Still waiting for my post that I will enjoy watching him stand up for the arrest and confiscation of cameras of his media friends when they violate someones 'rite to privacy'. A clear conflict of rights. It's only been 30 hours, it could still show up.  Seems to me when the SS diclined to detain him anymore then the locals had no more cause to not return his glock, and wish him a nice day. Then go back to the complaintant, and cite him for attempting to cause pannick by yelling 'gun' in a crowded park. |
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rodbender Founder's Club Member
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SlackwareRobert wrote: Seems to me when the SS diclined to detain him anymore then the locals But one cop had already said he was under arrest, they were stuck and had to come up with something. Then hope he would be happy with charges being dropped or being found not guilty. They were stuck, big time stuck. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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rodbender wrote: SlackwareRobert wrote:Seems to me when the SS diclined to detain him anymore then the locals Confusious said, "Too big a bite is very hard to swallow." Yata hey |
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khicks Regular Member
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any news on mtn jack, hearing dates? any thing at all |
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lildobe Regular Member
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khicks wrote: any news on mtn jack, hearing dates? any thing at all http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/16773.html http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/33601-mtn-jack-hearing-info-roll-call.html Last edited on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 06:34 pm by lildobe |
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khicks Regular Member
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thank you |
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45-ACP Regular Member 
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found this this mornin Police: Man carrying gun at Obama rally wanted to see what happened The Times/LUCY SCHALY By Bob Bauder, Times Staff Published: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 10:36 PM EDT BEAVER — An Industry man arrested after openly carrying a handgun to an August presidential rally in Beaver wore an empty holster to court on Monday and defended his right to bear arms, but the judge wasn’t buying his argument. District Judge Douglas Loughner ruled in Beaver County Court Monday that John Noble, 50, of 1063 Willowbrook Drive should stand trial on misdemeanor charges of disorderly conduct and disrupting a public meeting, stemming from the Sept. 29 rally for Democratic presidential running mates Barack Obama and Joe Biden. According to hearing testimony, the incident was at least partially triggered by comments Obama made in April about rural Americans being bitter and clinging to guns and religion. And the defense argued that Noble had a constitutional right to attend armed. Noble said in an interview before the hearing that he never intended to cause a ruckus, and he wasn’t there to make a statement. He was there, he said, to distribute gun-rights literature and “mirror” Obama’s comments. However, prosecutors presented evidence that he had planned the appearance in advance “to test what would happen.” Noble was accompanied by his wife, Janet, who was carrying a Bible, and at least nine other supporters, at least four of whom wore empty holsters at their sides. Pennsylvania law permits residents to carry handguns so long as they are not concealed. “I would have my firearm today with me if I was allowed and if it wasn’t taken away,” Noble said. The others said they arrived at the courthouse armed, but checked their guns at the door. The county provides locked storage containers at each of the two courthouse entrances for police officers and residents to store guns. Prosecutors called John Atkinson Sr. of Vanport Township, the first person to spot Noble in a crowd of about 300 people standing in Beaver’s McIntosh Square. Obama, Biden and other Democratic leaders were speaking less than 100 yards away in Quay Square. The parks are at the center of town. Atkinson said Noble had a semiautomatic 9mm handgun holstered on his right hip and was carrying a Bible. Noble crossed under a police tape cordoning off the park and began distributing literature. Atkinson, who has a license to carry a concealed weapon and has been a gun owner most of his life, said he immediately hailed a sheriff’s deputy and pointed out Noble, who was arrested on the spot. “He had every right to (have the gun), but in my opinion, this was a presidential rally, and that isn’t the right time or place to carry a firearm,” Atkinson said. State Police Trooper Shawn Schexnaildre, the arresting officer, testified that Noble’s gun was loaded with 14 rounds, including one in the chamber ready for firing. He described Noble as a “pleasant gentleman” and “not hostile in any way.” Noble cooperated with his questioning, he said. The first question was about the gun. “He looked me right in the eye and said, ‘I’m here to show Mr. Obama that Pennsylvanians still cling to their guns and religion,’ ” the officer said. Schexnaildre said Internet postings on two Web sites indicated that Noble planned the incident. Several days before the rally, Noble posted a message on one site saying he would attend the rally armed “to test what would happen,” Schexnaildre said. A subsequent post on the day of the rally urged readers to bring their guns and Bibles to Beaver that night. Assistant District Attorney Frank Martucci said the police didn’t arrest Noble because he had a gun, but because he caused a public disturbance by wearing it to the rally. Noble’s attorney, Steve Colafella, said that his client had every right to carry a gun, even to the rally, and that he believed Noble had a good chance of acquittal at trial. Prosecutors, he said, were sending a public message by charging him. “I think they’re sending a message that they want to discourage the practice of openly carrying a firearm to a political rally,” he said. Bob Bauder can be reached online at bbauder@timesonline.com. |
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mvpel Regular Member
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So, the prosecution is admitting that there's a First Amendment nexus in this case, as well as a Second Amendment. All the better for Noble's lawsuit against the Sheriff for violation of his civil rights under color of law. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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mvpel wrote: So, the prosecution is admitting that there's a First Amendment nexus in this case, as well as a Second Amendment. All the better for Noble's lawsuit against the Sheriff for violation of his civil rights under color of law. If he is convicted and serves jail time, can he still sue? Ken |
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mvpel Regular Member
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Add the judge to the named defendants in the lawsuit? "Shall not be questioned" is pretty clear-cut and unambiguous. |
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Alexcabbie Regular Member
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So Noble (allegedly) crossed under a "police tape"?? Those things usually say "POLICE LINE DO NOT CROSS". Either the witness is a lying SOS or Noble made a bad move. I need an aspirin......... |
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mvpel Regular Member
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300 other people were there, according to the same witness, so it must not have been much of a "cordon." |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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mvpel wrote: 300 other people were there, according to the same witness, so it must not have been much of a "cordon." I'd like to see the video that surely exists if he was inside a "security zone." Yata hey |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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An Industry man arrested after openly carrying a handgun to an August presidential rally in Beaver First off, Mtn Jack was NOT AT THE RALLY. He was in downtown Beaver, in a public park adjacent or otherwise near the Obama rally location. He was in the public park because deputies were directing pedestrians into the (unrestricted) park from the sidewalk. As we know, the Secret Service has publicly stated that Mtn Jack was not at the rally! A point that the trooper has continually lied about. However, prosecutors presented evidence that he had planned the appearance in advance “to test what would happen.” Actually, they presented no such "evidence" claimig that they could not print the posts of Mtn Jack from OCDO nd PAFOA since the trooper was not a "member". (his claim in court) This is a lie as no membership is required to print a web page you are viewing. Obviously the truth is that the claim of Jack posting about "testing" is not in those posts and they know they are cooked when those posts are presented to the court. The most disturbing part of this is how willing this trooper is to perjure himself. He has told many provably false lies. Some of which are not posted here. I hope internal affairs takes action against this creep. Additioanlly, since Jack was not at the rally, he could not have "disturbed" it. His "intent" is irrelevant if he didn't commit the crime. Atkinson, who has a license to carry a concealed weapon and has been a gun owner most of his life, said he immediately hailed a sheriff’s deputy and pointed out Noble, who was arrested on the spot. “He had every right to (have the gun), but in my opinion, this was a presidential rally, and that isn’t the right time or place to carry a firearm,” Atkinson said. Atkinson thinks that his opinion does law make  Typical Pa. gun "owner". I think Atkinson is a @#$% head.... Now arrest him! |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Great to get the skinny straight from the 'rilla's mouth. Following your "events" closely - we are experiencing a surge in Va. also. Keep holding their feet to the fire. Yata hey |
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MomTeacherFarmerHunter Regular Member
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Just some pictures from a dinner with a few of Mtn Jacks friends...    Hope you enjoy them as much as the guys/gays did/do over at PAFOA... |
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Wonderer Regular Member 
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Evidentiary meeting is tomorrow. The other side has to show the evidence they have to support their charge. A motion to dismiss will also be filed. |
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gnbrotz Activist Member
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The transcript from the preliminary hearing is now available. http://www.lildobe.net/PAFOA_Docs/mtnjacktranscript.pdf Please note: This is NOT the transcript from the proceeding mentioned in the post directly above this one. This is from the preliminary hearing, which happened on October 6th. Last edited on Sun Nov 30th, 2008 01:25 am by gnbrotz |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member
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Thanks for the PDF's |
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Thundar Regular Member
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When does the judge rule on the writ of Habeas Corpus? |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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Any update on this? Did Jack get his gun back yet? Ken |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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CowboyKen wrote: Any update on this? Inquiring minds do wish to know. Yata hey |
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lildobe Regular Member
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Grapeshot wrote: CowboyKen wrote:Any update on this? No updates yet. Trial is scheduled for March 9th. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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lildobe wrote: Grapeshot wrote:CowboyKen wrote:Any update on this? Thank you. Ken |
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riverrat10k Regular Member 
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Just a bump up. For encouragement, see the VA threads with Dan Moore vs. The City of Norfolk, VA. Mtn. Jack, we in Va. wish you the best. |
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Mtn Jack Regular Member 
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trial rescheduled, pre trial 4-15, not sure date of trial This is MRSMTNJACK..... edited: to add my identity to this post -mrs Last edited on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 12:14 am by Mtn Jack |
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Citizen Founder's Club Member
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Thanks for the update. |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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So we are now looking at mid-April for a hearing. Nine months and, as far as I know, he still hasn't gotten his gun back. How much has this whole thing cost Mr. Noble so far? I hope he can afford it. Is there a need to raise money to support Mr. Noble's expenses? Ken p.s.; This seems to be taking forever. Justice delayed is justice denied. |
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YllwFvr Regular Member 
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Lots of reading here! Sounds like Jack is doing ok! Nine months in isnt all that bad. I will keep an eye on this, wish you best of luck Jack! Evidence seems wholly on your side. |
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riverrat10k Regular Member
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Ma'am I wish you and your family the best. |
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riverrat10k Regular Member
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bump |
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WCrawford Regular Member 
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Any update from pre-trial on the 9th? |
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Mtn Jack Regular Member
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Sorry its been moved to first week in april. Mtn Jack |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Sorry, forgot to post the update here........: UPDATE: Mtn Jacks attorney intends to argue their pre-trial motion (Habeas Corpus) on April 9th at 9:30 AM. This time and date are subject to change and we won't know until probably sometime in March that it is a go. However, right now that appears to be the date. The trial date has been moved to the trial term beginning May 4, 2009. It is a two-week trial term and we won't have an idea of where we are on the list until a week or two prior to the start of the term. |
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WCrawford Regular Member
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I would guess that the prosecution STILL has not had enough time to figure out some semi-legal way to have any charge stick, huh?  I do hope that this gets resolved before I die of old age. Since I'm unable to be there for any legal procedings in person, you have my well wishes and full support. |
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riverrat10k Regular Member
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Just a bump up. Will now look to see if PA Patriot has his gun back. |
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jahwarrior72 Regular Member 
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he got that back awhile ago. |
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Mtn Jack Regular Member
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Thanks for watching and the support, trial moved to june. Mtn Jack |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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jahwarrior72 wrote: he got that back awhile ago. Do we know if Mr. Noble got his back? This really is taking forever and we may die of old age before it is resolved. I may anyway, I am an old guy. Ken |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Mtn Jack wrote: Thanks for watching and the support, trial moved to june. Mtn Jack Got your back and that of your fine family. Meanwhile, we have plenty of popcorn on hand. Whenever the date gets solidified, we might just have to schedule another Pa. trip. Yata hey |
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riverrat10k Regular Member
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Good idea Grapeshot. We can take my car. Air pollution allowed! |
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Mtn Jack Regular Member
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Sorry people i just love the system, court moved to the week of may 11 hope to see yinz there. Mtn Jack |
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shefearsnothing Regular Member
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Man! All this flip flopping around has got to be making you crazy! Positive thoughts coming your way! |
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Mtn Jack Regular Member
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My time to flip flop, for medical reasons we have a break untill the july term. I just hope you guys dont forget about me. Thanks for the support and friendship. Mtn Jack |
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tracylaud83 Regular Member 
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What was the final outcome of this ??? |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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tracylaud83 wrote: What was the final outcome of this ??? Aaaa, did you not read the posting immediately above yours?  Yata hey |
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Webcrawler Regular Member 
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Nasty situation. Apparently our constitutional rights supported by PA caselaw are subject to police whim for any reason they care to cite. Not that having constitutional rights are to be free of government whimsy or anything. Best of luck to you Mtn Jack, I'm really looking forward to reading more of this. I appreciate your personal sacrifice in what will become yet more caselaw and hopefully officers' personal responsibility in violations of the rights of Pensylvania's people. (DO NOT let the arresting officers off the hook with some settlement, afterwards. Insist on firing that pompous fool, his wages garnished at his new job, etc. to help reimburse the state for the settlement you will receive) |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Welcome Webcrawler Lots of good people here and ideas here. Mt, Jack has endured well so far. It is a long torturous road with many different expenses - personal and real. We all wish him well. Yata hey P.S. Updating your profile to at least show your home state benefits the moderators and people replying to you. |
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Thundar Regular Member
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Webcrawler wrote: Nasty situation.Actually we have a 2nd A (Incorporated in 9th, soon nationwide) to ensure that we are not powerless in the face of arbitrary and tyrannical government. |
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UTOC-45-44 Regular Member 
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CowboyKen wrote: Sonora Rebel wrote:I reckon you're all about Status Quo then? Heh... you sure ain't no 'cowboy'... Ken. Well CowboyKen, you for certain Ain't the Cowboy you SHOULD be. Giving up your shooters at the first sign of resistance!!! Shame on you ! It's "Cowboys" like you that makes us lose what we still have. BE A MAN AND FIGHT FOR THE FREEDOMS we have and DON'T give in to the SS, or ANY other Law Enforcement Grab hold of yer shooters and....what was it that Charlton Keston said?...."I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands!" The OP did NOTHING wrong. The day that we have to walk with fear while in the streets we have given up the "American Way" and Socialism mixed with Fascism has taken over. WAIT !!! It's ALREADY here. Obama is already presenting Socialism and just involved Facsism as he as The President has fired a Privately Owned CEO!!! COWBOY UP CowboyKen !!! Pick yurs and stand up for OUR Rights !!! Just my .02 TJ Last edited on Wed May 27th, 2009 01:56 pm by UTOC-45-44 |
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CowboyKen Regular Member
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UTOC-45-44 wrote:
He gave up his Shooter! They still have it and who knows if he will ever get it back! Ken |
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CoonDog Regular Member 
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I just finished reading the October 6 transcript. One thing I thought was odd was that the commonwealth argues that the Mr. Noble doesn't need to bring a gun since all the security there would provide a safe environment FOR the public. This is in direct contradiction to the trooper's testimony that clearly describes the security being there to protect Obama and Biden. Protect from what? FROM the public. Since the security provided wasn't there for the public's benefit, then of course Mr. Noble would have to provide his own protection. But, oops, the judge went for the prosecution's line. The defense makes a solid argument that, prior to his arrest, Mr. Noble had neither 1) disrupted a meeting or procession, or 2) created a hazadous situation, since we know the mere presence of a firearm does not support the latter charge. Watching intently from Michigan. Last edited on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 12:31 am by CoonDog |
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Wonderer Regular Member
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The trial term is July 13 to July 17, unless it gets moved. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Wonderer wrote: The trial term is July 13 to July 17, unless it gets moved. Watching and waiting for confirmation. Yata hey |
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Thundar Regular Member
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Will there be a trial next week? |
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Mtn Jack Regular Member
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I am ready, thanks for the support ,everybody is welcome to come will let you all know the date as soon as i know. Thanks again be safe Mtn Jack |
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PA-Carry Regular Member 
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Mtn Jack wrote: I am ready, Gee...Just keep us in suspense, Jack! |
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gutshot Regular Member
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Mtn Jack wrote: I am ready, Jack, you are a true patriot and an inspiration to us all. Good luck from KY. |
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CoonDog Regular Member
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Jack, good luck from Michigan! |
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sjalterego Regular Member
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Good luck from California. |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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Good Luck from Arizona! |
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Wonderer Regular Member
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trial date had been narrowed down to tuesday/wednesday.... now narrowed down more to monday.... that is 7-13... pending changes we cant for see..... |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Wonderer wrote: trial date had been narrowed down to tuesday/wednesday.... Best wishes and good thoughts go out to Mnt. Jack and his family. Its been too long. Its time to do this. Yata hey |
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MomTeacherFarmerHunter Regular Member
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it has been too long, but hopefully as the saying goes 'Good things come in time'... well we hope it all turns out 'good.' The more support we can get the better (especially the amount that shows up at the court house) It looks as though the jury will be picked Monday and the trial will follow which day we are still unsure... prob. Monday or Tuesday...(we think) If you'd like to come and think you could, let me know... we'll try to post updates as often as we can... Thanks again everyone! |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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Tentative hearing date: Tuesday, July 14 Ok folks, time to rally the troops. I spoke with Jack's attorney today and it looks like jury selection will be Monday afternoon and trial will be Tuesday. It is VERY important that we get a large turnout for this. Anyone who can swing it PLEASE make arrangements to be in Beaver Co on Tuesday for the trial. It *does* make a difference. AND there will be national media attention for this as a follow-up to the original stories. I will be posting more details regarding parking, directions, etc tomorrow. I hope to get a more firm confirmation on the date of trial on Monday. Yes, I know, it's the day before, but that is how they do things in Beaver county for low priority hearings. There is the possibility that it will be delayed due to prior cases and there are some other issues that could delay the hearing longer. But we should have a better idea by Monday. Beaver County CourthousePre-hearing meeting point: Brighton Hot Dog Shoppe (Awesome breakfast) 244 State Ave Beaver, PA 15009 MAP: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=244+State+Ave+beaver,+pa&sll=40.688676,-80.322762&sspn=0.0089,0.019419&ie=UTF8&ll=40.688416,-80.322762&spn=0.0089,0.019419&z=16&iwloc=A Post-hearing meeting point: Mtn Jacks farm. Directions to be given at courthouse or via PM on request. Last edited on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 11:36 pm by Pa. Patriot |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Definitely - if you live or work near beaver County/Pittsburgh area, please set aside Tuesday to attend this trial - its very important that the press, judge, police, politicians, jurrors, and prosecutors see that people take this matter seriously. If we get a bad holding on disorderly conduct for open carry in PA this would be very bad indeed. Last edited on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 08:16 pm by Mike |
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Il_Duce Banned 
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Tentatively coming. I may not be able to make it (It's about a 40% chance) |
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Skeptic Regular Member 
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IS this stuff out on Facebook? I checked the PAFOA facebook and didn't see anything, and facebook is a good way to get a lot of people to know what is going on. Nevermind , I found it when I started posting about it myself, funny how facebook works. Last edited on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 02:37 am by Skeptic |
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Alaskan Shooter Regular Member
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Good Luck from Alaska |
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Jonesy Regular Member
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Best of luck and thanks for taking a stand. |
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FMCDH Regular Member 
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Good luck from Washington! My prayers are with you. |
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opusd2 Regular Member
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I send you the best of wishes and hope for not luck but for the truth to come out in your favor. From Wisconsin with respect. |
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ixtow Founder's Club Member
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Good luck man! |
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Mtn Jack Regular Member
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got the call to go in this afternoon for jury selection. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Mtn Jack wrote: got the call to go in this afternoon for jury selection. Vaya con Dios - our prayers are with you. Yata hey |
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darthmord Regular Member 
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Good luck! |
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J.Gleason Campaign Veteran
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Any word yet? |
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3fgburner Regular Member 
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Jury selection's gonna take a while. |
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nomidlname Regular Member
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Good Luck From Nevada!! |
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Pa. Patriot State Researcher
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UPDATE: Jury selection will be in AM, Tomorrow. Trial to be immediately after. Most likely after lunch break. I am going to suggest that folks that want to come early to socialize start meeting at the Brighton Hot Dog Shoppe if they arrive before 10-11 o-clock. So figure 0900-1000 for the hotdog shop and then we'll all head towards the courthouse between 10-11AM (which we may get a better idea of via phone while we are there). Anyone planning on arriving in town after 10-11 just go to the CH and we'll congregate outside until we get word when session will start. I'll now go through the info posts and update with the above Last edited on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 10:45 pm by Pa. Patriot |
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drew68 Regular Member 
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Good luck from Michigan. Go get em |
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PDinDetroit Regular Member 
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Same thing will be going on here in Detroit tomorrow: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/27915.html |
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Thundar Regular Member
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How did jury selection go? |
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Skunk Regular Member 
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Best of luck from Ohio. Thank you for taking a stand on this. There was a similar case here in Ohio, although I'm not sure how it turned out. You will be in my thoughts. I wish I could come to offer my support. Chris *edit* I found the post of the case in Ohio on OFCC's board. The person stopped for carrying at a rally was NOT arrested, NOT charged, and his firearm was returned. The incident happened in Bedford Heights Ohio. I think the person involved in the Ohio incident is also a poster here. I don't think his story will be much help to you since it was in Ohio. OH and PA are both open carry states, but PA might define inducing panic or disorderly conduct differently. Here you must be doing something illegal in the first place for those charges to stick. Ohio is still having problems with OCers being harassed in some locations, but an arrest is very rare. Last edited on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 07:47 pm by Skunk |
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Count Founder's Club Member
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It never fails to amaze how some police departments think they can find ways around the laws to reach the outcome their liberal police chief wishes. |
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MomTeacherFarmerHunter Regular Member
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we think it went well... trial starts 0900 |
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FishingBack Regular Member
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I wonder what the fastest site to get the results up will be? |
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suntzu Regular Member 
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hope you win. |
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FishingBack Regular Member
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If the case started at 0900...and it's 1630 now....shouldn't it be over already? It doesn't seem that complicated of a case. |
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FishingBack Regular Member
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It says the defense rested it's case but no decision came out right. http://kdka.com/local/john.noble.trial.2.1086610.html Man Who Brought Gun To Rally Wanted Quiet Protest BEAVER (KDKA) ―  Click to enlarge Close  [url="> |
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FishingBack Regular Member
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Closing arguments will begin Thursday morning. |
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Machoduck Regular Member 
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KDKA can't seem to tell one preposition from another any better than the newspaper did. "At" is not the same as "near", is it? Oh well, the prepositions are the hardest part of speech for beginners to learn. MD P.S.: What kind of man stands up in public (open court) and admits to being afraid of a holstered pistol? I'm not just referring to the fear itself but also to the total lack of investigation or thought displayed by this person. General Patton said, "Bring me men with blood and brains." (BTW he did not say "...blood and guts") This person displayed his lack of either. My understanding is that Jack was disseminating information on gun rights, rather like we all do. What a scary activity. Run for the hills! He's handing out pamphlets! What do these jerk-waters think will happen to the republic if some regime manages to destroy gun rights in our country? |
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Tex4OC Regular Member
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Good luck Jack, We The People in Texas support you, and pray for you. All good things come to those who wait( and Good God you have had to wait). |
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Chili Regular Member
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From the article: "The man who told police about the weapon back in October testified he was afraid for his family when he saw the gun in the holster. " Is that all it takes? For one person to be afraid? What a ludicrous case. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Chili wrote: From the article: Rule by the first to speak - the loudest and most vocal - that is what all antis want. Freedom from fear is what the king and his loyal subjects desire. First squash the 2nd Amend. then the 1st - in this case they effectively did both at the same time. Wonder why Mtn Jack wasn't charged with something for having an apple too. Freedom, Mtn Jack. freedom the right way. Thanks again and good luck. Yata hey |
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Notso Activist Member
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What a bunch of BS. The prosecutor should be brought up on some charge for attempting to even try this bogus case. |
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yale Regular Member 
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Chili wrote: Is that all it takes? For one person to be afraid?Yes. That's it. This is all it takes for someone to be asked to leave a store or resturant. One customer telling the manager that the guy or gal minding his own business with the gun on is making him afraid. One jerk and the next thing you know the manager is asking you to leave. It happened to me at a Baton Rouge Cici's pizza resturant. It's happened to many OCers. Sad but true. |
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Reverend73 Founder's Club Member
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The latest: http://kdka.com/beaver/John.Noble.Trial.2.1088035.html Jury is still deliberating. |
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FishingBack Regular Member
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After 2 hours the jury asked the judge to clarify "intent" and "disturbance." |
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ianto94 Regular Member
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This whole thing is insane. He was not present at the Obama rally. He was outside it. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Reverend73 wrote: The latest: http://kdka.com/beaver/John.Noble.Trial.2.1088035.htmlVideo link is good. Jul 16, 2009 2:05 pm US/Eastern Prosecutor: Obama Rally Not The Place To Bring Gun About two hours into deliberations, jurors asked a judge to clarify intent and what constitutes a disturbance John Noble said he wanted to educate people about the right to carry firearms after Obama characterized Pennsylvanians as clinging to guns and religionBEAVER (KDKA) ―  The fate of a Beaver County man who is accused of bringing a gun to a campaign rally for President Barack Obama last year is now in the hands of a jury. During closing arguments today, prosecutors argued that the rally "was not the time or the place to bring a firearm." The defense, however, countered that John Noble was not breaking the law. Noble testified that he wanted to educate people about the right to carry firearms -- after Obama characterized Pennsylvanians as clinging to guns and religion. No one disputes that Noble had all the proper permits; but a state police trooper charged him with disrupting a public gathering. "As long as you're not breaking the law they can't do that," Defense Attorney Stephen Colafella told the jury earlier today. "Where does it stop? Nowhere does it say you can't carry an open firearm in a public park. That rally was exactly the place for Jack Noble to do what he did." Prosecutor Frank Martocci, however, disagreed. "There is a time and place for everything," Martocci added. "That was not the time or place to bring a firearm to that rally. Bringing this gun to that rally is the equivalent of yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater." The trial has attracted the attention of gun supporters, who have shown up at the Beaver County Courthouse. Jury deliberations began at about 11:30am. About two hours after the jury got the case, they asked a judge to clarify intent and what constitutes a disturbance. If jurors find him guilty of this third-degree misdemeanor, Noble could face as much as one year in jail and fines totaling $2500. Last edited on Thu Jul 16th, 2009 07:49 pm by Mike |
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riverrat10k Regular Member
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Still deliberating as of 3:30 |
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ianto94 Regular Member
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All it takes is one juror. If this jury gets hung the prosecutor would be an idiot to retry the case. Though apparently he already suffers from that disability. |
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Larry0071 Regular Member 
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I am praying hard! I won't be able to leave on my kayak trip in the morning if this is held until tomorow! |
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Larry0071 Regular Member
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It's 4:12 and no word yet. The court house closes at 4:00 I believe, 4:30 at the latest. They need to poop or get off the pot until tomorow... and try to poop again! I hope they come to a close today, but I think we would have heard it if the Jury came back. I suspect we will be biting nails all night waiting for tomorow! |
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riverrat10k Regular Member
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PAFOA board said the jury has been called back to court. Verdict or instructions for tomorrow. Should know in a few minutes. |
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Larry0071 Regular Member
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CONTINUED UNTIL TOMORROW |
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Larry0071 Regular Member
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Look at it this way, we get another 12 hours to pray for Jack, his wife, and 3 children. |
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riverrat10k Regular Member
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Jury did not decide. Continued until tomorrow. |
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NightOwl Regular Member
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I wish I could figure out what's taking the jury so long. The guy wasn't doing anything! |
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Larry0071 Regular Member
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riverrat10k wrote: Jury did not decide. Continued until tomorrow. Psst....Look up...yea, up there.....See that post 2 above your last one? Neat huh? |
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riverrat10k Regular Member
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Wasn't there when I started typin'. My guess on why so long is one anti-gun holdout. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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NightOwl wrote: I wish I could figure out what's taking the jury so long. The guy wasn't doing anything! The problem is with the way the fact pattern has been portrayed by the government from the beginning, despite secret service clearing jack of any crime or misconduct - the government painted it as a guy trying to disrupt a presidential candidate's meeting with a gun + a PA statute (arguably unconstitutional in this and many applications anyway) + alleged internet chatter about trying to bring co-conspirators - to many or most people, this is an extremely bizzarre scenario and think that frankly any behavior to distract from a meeting of anyone is wrong. Even in the jury, who have now been given a more correct view of the facts, e.g., that there was no meeting, etc., and I suspect that several jury members reamin outraged that anyone can carry a gun in the open let alone in a park near where a future president might be later that day - I hope that my guess is correct and the majority of the jury is ready to acquitt and trying to pull along the straglers so the jury will not be hung. |
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Larry0071 Regular Member
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NightOwl wrote: I wish I could figure out what's taking the jury so long. The guy wasn't doing anything! Because I guess the way the DA slanted it (I was in the court room yesterday for a portion of the trial) you would see two wildly contrasting points of view. You have Jack, his wife, and thier attorney talking about written law and factual information.... but then you see the DA talking theatrics about speculations and what-if scenarios. Then the DA tryies to paint the picture of Jack setting at home dreaming up a plan to get arrested and have his rights violated in front of his peers in his home town. The jury got to hear both views and has to try and read through the trash that the DA dumped on them real heavy. I am happy that they did not collapse into a brainwashed state and walk out with a guilty plea. If you look at the factual information and Jack's history of open carry as well as his dedication to the firearms laws and the free sharing of this information.... you would easily throw down a verdict that lets Jack get back to normal life with his family. But some portion these folks I fear do not understand the lifestlye of a person that carries a pistol every day, and they may take it as a person with intent to do harm. There are so many degrees of prejudice against guns, some folks harbor no ill feeling towards them at all and may even love firearms as a hobby, and then you to go all the way to the extreme of the folks that honestly feel that all firearms are eveil and should not exist. This can be taken to the feeling of hatred within some folks. We don't know what the mindsets are in the selected jury members, but I guess each of them must fight thier emotional demons and force themselves to honestly look at the man and what he did or did not do. They need to look clearly at the laws and determine if he had in fact broken any laws related to the charges against him. Once they take the time to go through this process, they should eventually be able to come back and together agree that Jack is a great American, a great family man, and a great Christian who has been accused of something that he had no intentions of doing and never did. God will see the Noble family through this, you watch. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Not being aware of Pa. procedures, is a unanimous agreement required of the jury on a misdemeanor charge or only a simply majority? If a unanimous agreement is required, it only takes one refusal to find guilty (reasonable doubt) to win an acquittal - right? Frankly, I do not see how any reasonable person could vote for conviction on what has been seen of the facts. Its going to be a long wait until tomorrow. Yata hey |
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gutshot Regular Member
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Grapeshot wrote: Not being aware of Pa. procedures, is a unanimous agreement required of the jury on a misdemeanor charge or only a simply majority? Not quite. One (or more but less than all) votes for acquittal results in a hung jury and a mistrail. The DA then could retry the case all over again or drop it. |
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Montana Regular Member 
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PAFOA has locked the thread and hidden it from view. |
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FMCDH Regular Member
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Montana wrote: PAFOA has locked the thread and hidden it from view. Sounds like things got a bit rowdy. |
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Montana Regular Member
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PAFOA moderators have cleaned up the thread and brought it back online. |
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FishingBack Regular Member
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They have reached a verdict, it will be announced shortly. |
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Elkad Regular Member
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PAFOA thread says Not Guilty |
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FishingBack Regular Member
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Victory! This is excellent. |
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nomidlname Regular Member
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Congradulations From NEVADA! Woohooo! |
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protias Regular Member 
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Elkad wrote: PAFOA thread says Not Guilty Very good to hear! |
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Elkad Regular Member
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News link http://kdka.com/beaver/John.Noble.Gun.2.1089780.html Note the last line. The judge, however, will rule on the disorderly conduct charge. Edit. PAFOA now says not guilty on the 2nd charge as well Last edited on Fri Jul 17th, 2009 04:42 pm by Elkad |
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gunsfreak4791 Regular Member
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Very good glad to hear this. |
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Thundar Regular Member
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"BECAUSE I'M AN AMERICAN" |
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suntzu Regular Member
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OUTSTANDING...... now he should talk to a lawyer about a civil lawsuit against the police and take them to the cleaners... |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Verdict is in !!!!!!!!! Mr Noble (Mtn Jack) is guilty of NOTHING ! Innocent ! http://kdka.com/beaver/John.Noble.Gun.2.1089780.html Yata hey |
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Chili Regular Member
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That's awesome, Congrats! |
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codename_47 Regular Member
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Woohoo!!! John Noble and Danbus!! True american hero's! Standing up to the man and not taking any crap. Now Mr. Noble should sue those idiot local cops 42 usc 1983 |
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JSlack7851 Regular Member
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funny how they seem so much more comfortable about open carry than the people in Ohio. Congratulations to Mt. Jack and the good people from the PAFOA for showing up for his support with their handguns in plain site. Something Ohioians should pay better attention too. |
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XD Owner Regular Member 
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I concur with the calls for civil suits. Congratulations to Mtn. Jack, but he should never have been prosecuted in the first place for exercising his constitutional rights. Where's the ACLU? |
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codename_47 Regular Member
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Does anyone have a link to the opinion if there was one? |
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Lthrnck Regular Member 
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Congrats, Mtn Jack. Now I hope I get the opposite call in my case.. |
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gunsfreak4791 Regular Member
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So glad it went well. I can't wait to see the transcripts and the ruling |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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JSlack7851 wrote: funny how they seem so much more comfortable about open carry than the people in Ohio. It is my understanding that all hand guns are checked in/put in secure lockers prior to entering the court room. Those OCing outside the court house were surely in abundance. Hope some pictures or videos are made available of John exiting the court house. PAFOA stood solidly behind Mr. Noble. Great job - you make me proud! Yata hey |
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kwiebe Regular Member 
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I think "BECAUSE I'M AN AMERICAN" should be the official reply to the "Why?" question. Four words that speak volumes... |
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DrMark Lone Star Veteran 
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Congrats Jack. |
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J.Gleason Campaign Veteran
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Congrats Jack, you are a true American. |
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45acpForMe Regular Member 
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Thank God and thank you for standing up for OUR rights! This whole saga sounds like it would make a good 20/20 interview. Any way to push for such a thing? |
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CoonDog Regular Member
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Just tuning in from Michigan. Congratulations Jack! |
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Wonderer Regular Member
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deep sigh... |
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Machoduck Regular Member
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I wonder if the judge, in calling Mtn Jack foolish, considered the actions of Rosa Parks foolish that day she sat in the front of the bus. I ask this because the judge apparently considers either standing up for one's rights or educating the public to be foolish. I have heard nothing of his thoughts on the foolishness of the cop or the prosecutor, by the way. MD |
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kwiebe Regular Member
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Machoduck wrote: I wonder if the judge, in calling Mtn Jack foolish, considered the actions of Rosa Parks foolish that day she sat in the front of the bus. I ask this because the judge apparently considers either standing up for one's rights or educating the public to be foolish. I have heard nothing of his thoughts on the foolishness of the cop or the prosecutor, by the way. Excellent points! I can't get over how this site, on a daily basis almost, gets me to thinking about things in new ways. Fantastic. |
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Mtn Jack Regular Member
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I sent this post to PAFOA as a thank you. And would like to submit it here also, i really cant get to the bottom of how much you all meant to Jan and I as we forged ahead. But it does show what we can do if we stick togeather. Thank you from our hearts. Mtn Jack Originally Posted by Mtn Jack  A bed time story for you all, I would like to finish my OC log story that began in sept of last year. Remember the story of the fast car with interesting people? Well the story has a happy ending and you all may know the out come. Judged by 12 and carried the whole way by the most amazing group of friends a person could ever hope to have. The members of the PAFOA. It is a ride that was long, with many hills and valleys, not to mention a turn or two. Jan and i are so greatfull that you all went on this ride with us, we could not have had better travel compaions.You endured all of the hardships along with us, and not a small task it was. The members of PAFOA have much to be proud of and all of the credit goes to you, as we would not have had the strength to carry this out ourselves. Many of you worked tirelessly on our trip with hardly a rest stop on the journey. Oh well maybe a little stop for dinner here and there. A short stop in Harrisburgh for a refresher and new ideas. A stop to visit our friends at the FOAC ,and numerous stops for directions of legal advice. We picked up our friends at OCDO and also let the VCDL people ride along. Across the country we picked up many hitchhikers and they wanted to stay on the ride. For this we are forever greatfull. Our fuel tank never emptyed and our tires never flatened because of you all. Quite simply we had an easy pass. The journey was long and will never be forgoten. I am tired from the trip as i am sure you all are, but its one i would do all over again. Thanks so much for the ride, with the beautifull veiw, and the interesting people we met along the way. We love you all for the directions we got, its a smooth road ahead because of you all, and the best part of all is not a ticket at all. Love you all Mtn Jack |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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Thank you John - nicely said. We know who carried the burden though. Hope you can take some time to relax with your friends and family. Yata hey |
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Gilly Regular Member
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no carry permit ? wrote: I think we need to pick our battles a little more careful. Defending the actions of this nutcase IS NOT A GOOD MOVE FOR OPEN CARRY. This guy is a great example for the anti-gun folks to wave around. I'm tired of this idea that we need to "pick our battles." Just like on Sotomayor. The right wants to confirm her because they feel they can't win anyway. To hell with that rot. We stand and fight on EVERY SINGLE INFRINGEMENT or we bow our heads and surrender. |
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