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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Montana > What is considered "Partially Covered" in Montana?
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Montana > What is considered "Partially Covered" in Montana?
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| Moderated by: jpierce | ||
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vermonter Regular Member 
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I saw a post about being "partially covered" is concealed in MT. I have a friend who is going to MT for a few weeks. Is an inside the waistband holster considered concealed if there is no garment or flap covering the grip? |
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JBinMontana Regular Member 
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Here it is straight from the MCA, and based on this if he is going to carry inside city limits, get a IWB holster. http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca_toc/45_8_3.htm 45-8-315. Definition. "Concealed weapon" means any weapon mentioned in 45-8-316 through 45-8-318 and 45-8-321 through 45-8-328 that is wholly or partially covered by the clothing or wearing apparel of the person carrying or bearing the weapon, except that for purposes of 45-8-321 through 45-8-328, concealed weapon means a handgun or a knife with a blade 4 or more inches in length that is wholly or partially covered by the clothing or wearing apparel of the person carrying or bearing the weapon. Exceptions: 45-8-317. Exceptions. (1) Section 45-8-316 does not apply to: (a) any peace officer of the state of Montana or of another state who has the power to make arrests; (b) any officer of the United States government authorized to carry a concealed weapon; (c) a person in actual service as a member of the national guard; (d) a person summoned to the aid of any of the persons named in subsections (1)(a) through (1)(c); (e) a civil officer or the officer's deputy engaged in the discharge of official business; (f) a probation and parole officer authorized to carry a firearm under 46-23-1002; (g) a person issued a permit under 45-8-321 or a person with a permit recognized under 45-8-329; (h) an agent of the department of justice or a criminal investigator in a county attorney's office; (i) a person who is outside the official boundaries of a city or town or the confines of a logging, lumbering, mining, or railroad camp or who is lawfully engaged in hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, hiking, backpacking, farming, ranching, or other outdoor activity in which weapons are often carried for recreation or protection; or (j) the carrying of arms on one's own premises or at one's home or place of business. (2) With regard to a person issued a permit under 45-8-321, the provisions of 45-8-328 do not apply to this section. |
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MT GUNNY Regular Member 
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Yes. I personaly carry in this manner. IWB Holster, all you can see is the grip and cocked and locked hammer. I feel its the most comfortable. |
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vermonter Regular Member
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Yes, but isn't the part of the holster that is in fact inside the waistband of the pants (clothing) considered partially covered? I have heard the police use that in some states to harass OCer's. I know it's splitting hairs, but just want to make sure IWB carry is considered OC by Montana LEO's. |
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MT GUNNY Regular Member
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Yes (again) you need a permit to carry in this fashion! The law is quite clear. Do not carry IWB without permit! |
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JBinMontana Regular Member
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Yep, you will need a permit to carry IWB while in city limits. Out and away from city limits you can carry concealed without a permit. |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member 
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Why don't y'all just get a real gunbelt (not a pants belt) 'n use it? No questions about concealment at all. Very simple solution. 'Does beg the question of a flapped holster tho... being considered 'clothing' somehow. Some holsters enclose the weapon completely (like the Makarov, P-38, Luger etc.) or partially such as the M1902 type US military holsters for the 1911's. Last edited on Sat Sep 20th, 2008 05:55 pm by Sonora Rebel |
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vermonter Regular Member
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Ok no IWB without CCW permit, But Open carry is OK everywhere except schools, federally prohibited, state buildings? Can you OC (belt holster) into restaurants, city parks/public gatherings, banks? Or do the same restrictions apply as for ccw? |
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llanok Regular Member
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vermonter wrote: Can you OC (belt holster) into restaurants, city parks/public gatherings, banks? Yes, with a couple of caveats. This is mostly addressed in one of the subsections linked above: 45-8-328
Last edited on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 08:19 pm by llanok |
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vermonter Regular Member
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Someone needs to write their legislator to get these restrictions removed. Here in Vermont you don't need a permit to CCW or OC. You cannot carry on school property, state buildings and the usual federal restrictions - COMMON SENSE. That is IT! They need to change the law in MT so that it is illegal to be intoxicated while carrying, pre-empt the right of cities to regulate parks and gatherings, and remove the bank/train restriction. Sounds like draconian laws that are a throwback to the gunslinger days when they were worried about drunken shootouts at bars, and train/bank robberies. I don't think they have to worry about people who have gone through the trouble of being licensed. Write your legislators!!!! |
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MountainGator Regular Member 
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vermonter wrote: Someone needs to write their legislator to get these restrictions removed. Here in Vermont you don't need a permit to CCW or OC. You cannot carry on school property, state buildings and the usual federal restrictions - COMMON SENSE. That is IT! They need to change the law in MT so that it is illegal to be intoxicated while carrying, pre-empt the right of cities to regulate parks and gatherings, and remove the bank/train restriction. Sounds like draconian laws that are a throwback to the gunslinger days when they were worried about drunken shootouts at bars, and train/bank robberies. I don't think they have to worry about people who have gone through the trouble of being licensed. Write your legislators!!!! There are MANY restaurants in Montana (which serve alcohol) that if the CCW prohibition were lifted, you world not need to CWL to carry. So while they would NOT have to worry about people who have gone through the trouble of being licensed, they would have to worry about everyone else. You don't need a CWL to CCW in 99% of the State of Montana. But I hear what you're saying, and I have written many legislators, and all they seem to be interested in is allowing any yahoo to CCW in places like WallyWorld, Home Depot, McDonalds, and the Rodeo...without a Background Check, and without showing proof of any weapons training or previous handling experience. Last edited on Tue Feb 24th, 2009 04:03 am by MountainGator |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member 
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llanok wrote: vermonter wrote:Can you OC (belt holster) into restaurants, city parks/public gatherings, banks? With respect to all involved, where were you when JB and I were trying to explain this exact fact to MountainGator? Funny how some can say something and not be questioned but when others do, it's not believed!! |
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JBinMontana Regular Member
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Well I see we're a happy bunch here...... Personally I think Montana is improving things, and if I want to walk into a bank OC I can. If I want to walk on School property I can no matter if I'm OC or CC. If my wife and I are out and I want to have a drink, she can carry in her purse because it is not concealed under Montana law, and there fore legally carried by her. Should I need it, I can get it... but I don't drink so there is no problem there. Vermonter - Montana is currently working to eliminate conceal carry permits all together. I personally still like having one for when I purchase a firearm and still have to fill out the federal form 4473 which then allows me to pay and walk, and no NICS check. Not all states are going to adopt - Vermont Style Carry Remember your visiting here, just be nice. Our gun laws are very easy to live and operate around. I'm hoping that soon all states will be like Alaska and Vermont. |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member
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Well said JB!! |
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MT GUNNY Regular Member
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JBin said: " Montana is currently working to eliminate conceal carry permits all together" Not Exactly, they are trying to remove the Need for a permit to carry Concealed in side City limits. Eliminating Montana CCP all together would be a bad Idea. If that happened, a Montanan would not be able to CC in other states that once had Reciprocity. If this law HB228 Passes ( Hopefully) Those with a Permit will only need it when they leave the state. Or use it for NICS when Purchasing Firearms. Montanans without a Permit will have to OC when they leave the state ( as long as the that state allows) Last edited on Tue Feb 24th, 2009 04:43 pm by MT GUNNY |
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JBinMontana Regular Member
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MT GUNNY wrote: JBin said: " Montana is currently working to eliminate conceal carry permits all together" This part I know about the new current HB228 that a permit will no longer be required should it pass. But if you want to still maintain a conceal carry permit one can do that to carry outside the state, and shorten your wait on firearms purchases. |
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MountainGator Regular Member
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40s&wfan wrote: With respect to all involved, where were you when JB and I were trying to explain this exact fact to MountainGator? Funny how some can say something and not be questioned but when others do, it's not believed!! Hey amp fan, not in Vermonter's defense, but look at the date of his last post (Oct 08) and then recall the time of our 3-way discussion (couple weeks ago). But just to set the reccord straight, in the 3-way (with you, me & JB) I was NOT discussing OC, I was asking only in respect to CCW. but to MT Gunny. I am opposed to a change in MCA that would allow ANYONE... Gangbangers, Wife-beaters, even Well-intentioned Citizens who have never-Ever-EVER fired any hand gun, to carry concealed in places like the Home Depot, Wally World, a theater, every Mall inthe state, etc. ... Especially when I - a holder of a MT CWP - have to put my gun into my wife's purse when we go into Red Lobster for lunch. jmho |
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MountainGator Regular Member
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JBinMontana wrote: ... If my wife and I are out and I want to have a drink, she can carry in her purse because it is not concealed under Montana law, and there fore legally carried by her. Should I need it, I can get it... but I don't drink so there is no problem there. HEY JB.... man, you must have some really special gal there, 'cause if I ever put my gun in my wife's purse, it would probably only take her/me 10 minutes to find it (if it was needed)  |
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Sonora Rebel Regular Member
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Hi y'all! While I'm politically favorable to 'Constitutional Carry'... (Rights don't require permission) for CC... As somebody mentioned... BG's CC as a matter of course no matter what. So the common sense side of me sez CC should require permit. 'Just solves a lotta 'doubt' to separate the GG's from the BG's. Also... allows the carrier to travel beyond the state with the gun... and makes purchases easier. I have an AZ CWP and altho I rarely carry CC... there's times I must. (Durin' the monsoons or when it's colder than a short jacket will work.) There's nothing preventing BG's from OC... 'cept they don't. Not with holsters anyway. The current hoodle fashion don't include belts it seems. Ennyhoo... I kind'a favor permit for CC... with the usual firearms course requirement... fingerprints 'n all that. |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member
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MountainGator wrote: but to MT Gunny. I am opposed to a change in MCA that would allow ANYONE... Gangbangers, Wife-beaters, even Well-intentioned Citizens who have never-Ever-EVER fired any hand gun, to carry concealed in places like the Home Depot, Wally World, a theater, every Mall inthe state, etc. ... Especially when I - a holder of a MT CWP - have to put my gun into my wife's purse when we go into Red Lobster for lunch. Then open carry in Red Lobster! As several of us have already stated, it is legal to OC in these places but you must follow their policy. If they ask you to remove it or to leave, take your business elsewhere! Why don't we have a Red Lobster here? |
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JBinMontana Regular Member
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40s&wfan wrote:
Here ya go  |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member
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Ok, thanks for reminding me about just how gross sea food looks!! |
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MT GUNNY Regular Member
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Quote From MountainGator: but to MT Gunny. I am opposed to a change in MCA that would allow ANYONE... Gangbangers, Wife-beaters, even Well-intentioned Citizens who have never-Ever-EVER fired any hand gun, to carry concealed in places like the Home Depot, Wally World, a theater, every Mall inthe state, etc. ... Especially when I - a holder of a MT CWP - have to put my gun into my wife's purse when we go into Red Lobster for lunch. Thats a good thing that your opposed to Gang bangers, Wife beaters and Such to carry Openly or Concealed. So am I! There is a Law here in MT 45-8-313. Unlawful possession of firearm by convicted person. (1) A person commits the offense of unlawful possession of a firearm by a convicted person if the person purposely or knowingly purchases or possesses a firearm after the person has been convicted of: (a) a felony for which the person received an additional sentence under 46-18-221; or (b) an offense under the law of another state or of the United States that is equivalent to an offense that when committed in Montana is subject to an additional sentence under 46-18-221. (2) A person convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm by a convicted person shall be imprisoned in a state prison for not less than 2 years or more than 10 years. (3) A person who has been issued a permit under 45-8-314 may not be convicted of a violation of this section. I could Post more of MCA that would back this up but there is a limit to the amont of posted Words. This law is not in Question Here, We are Talking about CCW laws. Lets say for instance this law passes, HB228, A person NOT allowed by law to own a Firearm CANNOT Carry Openly or Concealed. If you can Legally own you may then CC or OC throughout MT. So HB 228 is not a Change in MCA that would allow Gang bangers or Wife beaters to CC or OC........... I shure Hope you are not Writing our Legislatures saying you Oppose any change to CC laws that are on the Books Cuz you don't understand the Text of HB228? Last edited on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 10:29 pm by MT GUNNY |
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JBinMontana Regular Member
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40s&wfan wrote: Ok, thanks for reminding me about just how gross sea food looks!! Ah but its so good for you... I hate the cold, so I could really live where the weather is warmer .... much warmer and the fishing is good all the time. Can you say, Hawaii |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member
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I'd prefer Arizona, New Mexico or Nevada. I'm not big into watersports and I don't fish much!! I fly-fish every now and then but that's it!! |
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MountainGator Regular Member
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40s&wfan wrote: MountainGator wrote:but to MT Gunny. I am opposed to a change in MCA that would allow ANYONE... Gangbangers, Wife-beaters, even Well-intentioned Citizens who have never-Ever-EVER fired any hand gun, to carry concealed in places like the Home Depot, Wally World, a theater, every Mall inthe state, etc. ... Especially when I - a holder of a MT CWP - have to put my gun into my wife's purse when we go into Red Lobster for lunch. Because I have the "tacit permission of the State" (that states that I am a 'highly regarded citizen) that grants me 'Special Consideration'!, and that Special Consideration (SHOULD) allow(s) me NOT to have to suffer the "Whims" of some Local Yocal. As for your second question, my good man, I really have no idea. We only get to your part of OUR great state every couple years or so, and when we are there, we DO NOT do those kind of restaurants!  |
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MountainGator Regular Member
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MT GUNNY wrote: Quote From MountainGator:but to MT Gunny. I am opposed to a change in MCA that would allow ANYONE... Gangbangers, Wife-beaters, even Well-intentioned Citizens who have never-Ever-EVER fired any hand gun, to carry concealed in places like the Home Depot, Wally World, a theater, every Mall inthe state, etc. ... Especially when I - a holder of a MT CWP - have to put my gun into my wife's purse when we go into Red Lobster for lunch. yes SARGENT, I DO understand the text of the bill, and Local Yocal, who has never shot a firearm in their life would have the RIGHT to carry dang-near anywhere. And IF you don't understand the "PROCESS", while a gangbanger may not be "convicted", they can be "denied". The same goes for others (such as "wife beaters") If you don't NOT UNDERSTAND the reason (AND SHERIFF'S OUT) for providing three personal references, then I guess you don't understand the Montana cwp PROCESS. YES I have written EVERY legislatore in the State encouraging them to oppose the bill in the real interest of public safety, and conversely, to favor a bill that would allow licensed citizens to carry in places such as Red Lobster. |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member
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MountainGator wrote:
Well, we can obviously tell who does and doesn't support the Second Amendment of this fine country! You can't seriously believe that even if we do get HB 228 to fail and it falls flat on its face, these gang-bangers and wife-beaters would actually pay attention to the laws! I gotta say I can't count the amount of times I've heard a crook say (in my days on the police department): I wouldn't be caught dead with a gun, I'm a convicted felon! Yeah, they sure pay attention to the laws! Crooks aren't gonna give a damn whether it's legal to carry or not, they'll still do it regardless as to what you may ask our House or Senate to do! I honestly hope like hell that HB 228 passes. Any infringement on our right to carry is unconstitutional and should not be allowed to keep law abiding citizens from exercising a right that allows them to protect themselves and their family! I suppose as well that you're opposed to the bill that Montana is trying to pass within the state shooting down federal regulations on HB 246?! Keep your paws and your laws off my guns!! I'm sure Red Lobster is among the Highest of priorities our state legislature has on their desk in front of them!! Geez! Why don't you just OC in Red Lobster and get over it!! The rest of us seem to know it's legal, take the advice of some educated people! Last edited on Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 04:30 am by 40s-and-wfan |
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MT GUNNY Regular Member
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MountainGator Quote; "and Local Yocal, who has never shot a firearm in their life would have the RIGHT to carry dang-near anywhere" Apparently Fellas We have a Person who Doesn't Understand the Following; "A well Regulated Militia, being Necessary to the Security of a Free State, The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms, Shall Not Be Infringed" There is also the MT Constitution; Montana: "The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons." Mont. Const. art. II, 12. Montanans Already have the Right to Carry Openly Dang near anywhere! Can I ask you a Question? Why are you on this Forum? You argued with JBin, and 40s&, on this thread; http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum34/15830.html It was obvious that you Didn't understand the conversation! I happen to have a CCP so I do know the Process. You know if you think there is going to be a big Problem with Bad people CCing in town, then why don't we have a Problem Now with People CCing Outside City limits without a permit???????????? You got a rational Answer for that? There is a Web site Id like to refur you to, You should Like it! http://www.bradycampaign.org/ Buy the way How did you Know I was a Sergent in the Army? |
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LeMat Regular Member 
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40s&wfan wrote: Why don't we have a Red Lobster here? Tell ya what, you'll get your Red Lobster when I get my Olive Garden.  And MT GUNNY, I think he thought you were a Sergeant in the USMC. |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member
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I'd prefer the Olive Garden!! |
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MT GUNNY Regular Member
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Yea that happens alot, Gunny just Means I'm a Montana Gun Enthusiast. |
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JBinMontana Regular Member
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Personally I would rather have Mahi Mahi or Ahi  along with pasta from the Olive Garden. LeMat I'm gonna put some fish smelling stuff in your county truck  |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member
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I'd try shark once if someone ever cooked it, but I'd have to make sure and certain it was shark first!! I've always wanted to try it!! |
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JBinMontana Regular Member
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40s&wfan wrote: I'd try shark once if someone ever cooked it, but I'd have to make sure and certain it was shark first!! I've always wanted to try it!! The Olive Garden has shark on the menu. The nice thing about Shark is that it don't taste any differant than Halibit. |
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40s-and-wfan Regular Member
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Thanks for ruining that for me now JB. Now I've lost my appetite for shark! |
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MT GUNNY Regular Member
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Bump |
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JBinMontana Regular Member
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BTT |
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