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tricityguy Regular Member
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Hi folks, I was born in Idaho, but raised (and still live) in Washington. Most of my extended family still lives in Idaho and I visit often. I'd like to know where firearms are prohibited in Idaho. I see that I can't carry at a school or at a school event, but otherwise, I see no other restrictions. Can someone clarify this for me? Extended background on this request: Saturday, I was at a large, catered event in Lewiston, OCing (and CCing a BUG). A portion of the facility was considered a "bar" area and there was a sign indicating that portion was closed to persons under the age of 21. Now, I am unaware of Idaho law in this manner, but in Washington it's against state law to carry any firearm into the "bar" area of a facility (defined specifically as that portion of the facility that is closed to minors under the age of 21). I can carry in a restaurant and I can drink while carrying (in WA), as long as I stay in the portion of the establishment that's open to minors. As I wasn't sure of the legality in Idaho and I wanted to enter the "bar" area, I returned my firearms to my vehicle. I then approached the security guard who was hired for the event and he identified himself as an active (but off duty) LEO. I asked him what Idaho law said about firearms. He said I can not have a gun in any establishment that serves alcohol, period. I inquired as to whether this included the entire establishment, or just the 21 and over "bar" area. He said it includes the entire establishment. I asked if he knew that was the law for a fact and he responded in the affirmative. I suspected he was full of it as I just can't see Idaho being more strict than Washington, but left the firearms in my vehicle anyway. Now that I'm home, I looked up Idaho's firearms laws and I see nothing about carrying guns in bars or other establishments that serve alcohol. I see that I can't carry while "intoxicated" or "under the influence", but that's immaterial as I was driving that night, and thus not drinking. Anyway, I'd like to be prepared the next time I visit family, thus this post. Thank you for any advice you can give. |
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carracer Regular Member
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I believe there is no restriction and the guard was bluffing or misinformed. |
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BrianEMT Regular Member 
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Its a touchy subject. Although technically you are free to carry while not under the influence. But entering the bar is demonstrating intent. So I would just be careful about where you do so. Other places off-limits are the usual, public schools (K-12), court houses, post offices, and a few others. Feel free to carry anywhere else that is not strictly or obviously prohibited. You may also carry in all public libraries. I have compiled a list here of Go, No Go businesses. Confirmed Gun Friendly: -Sportsman's Warehouse -Cabela's (Boise) -Boise Public Library -Boise Airport (before checkpoint) -Impact Guns -Ponderosa Sports -Walmart (Glenwood) (ask for a manager if you encounter issues) -Walmart (Overland) (ask for a manager if you encounter issues) NOTE: The STORE or GENERAL Manager -Fred's "Reel" Barber Shop (Meridian, ID) No Issues To Date (NITD) Unless Otherwise Noted: -Paul's Market (Nampa) -Barnes & Noble (Milwaukee) -Walgreens (Nampa, 12th Ave and 7th St) -Karcher Mall -Golden Corral -Red Robin (Nampa) -Zebra 12 -NAPA Auto (Downtown Nampa) -Best Buy (Nampa) -Nampa Library -IHOP (Nampa-Caldwell Blvd) -Boise Towne Square -Famous Footware -Circuit City (Boise) -Idaho Humane Society -Fred Meyer (Meridian, Fairview/Locust Grove) Anti-Gun: -Costco (Boise) -Costco (Nampa) -Lee Read Jewelers -Capitol Mall (legislation change in progress) You can find the updated list here: http://icsdl.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15 |
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NavyLT Regular Member
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he identified himself as an active (but off duty) LEO. I asked him what Idaho law said about firearms First mistake. Never ask LEO if something is legal or not. They generally do not know, but will claim that they do. Last edited on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 02:11 pm by NavyLT |
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GreenDrake Regular Member 
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Agreed. One of the most important parts of carrying is knowing the laws well and being confident. You can carry in a bar, ya just can't be under the influence. As a rule of thumb if I know there is a potential for more than one drink, I disarm and don't take any chances. |
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tricityguy Regular Member
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Thanks folks, I appreciate the replies. NavyLT, I fully agree with you and normally avoid even talking with LEO, let alone asking for their advice. However, I wasn't in a place where I could look the law up and I'd already made the decision to put the guns in the car, so I decided asking the guy couldn't hurt. Worst case he fibs to me and I leave the guns in the car, best case he tells the truth and I re-arm. So I had nothing to lose this time. I, of course, did not tell him I was previously armed, just inquired as to the law. I did prepare myself before I left, making sure OC was legal and that my WA CPL was accepted in Idaho, but I had no idea the venue would even be serving alcohol, let alone have a designated 21 and over bar area. So I didn't even think to look for that sort of law. When I walked in and saw the "Nobody under 21" sign, it caught me by surprise and with that LEO running around, I wasn't about to chance something that I knew full well was illegal in WA. Funny thing is that nobody enforced the bar area restrictions. There were children running through the "21 and over" area all night. |
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BrianEMT Regular Member
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Well if you aren't that sure of the law or just dont feel like memorizing all that jumbo, just print off Chapter 18 Section 33 of the Idaho State Code, the part that covers the possession and carry of firearms. Anyone who asks, you could just pull a card out of your wallet.  As far as the children running around, there is a big difference between simply passing through or loitering. Similarly, you can carry on any school grounds as long as it involves active loading or unloading...of PERSONS. |
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Hiredgun30 Regular Member 
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heres what the law says regarding alochol and CC...... 18-3302B. CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR DRUGS. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a concealed weapon on or about his person when intoxicated or under the influence of an intoxicating drink or drug. Any violation of the provisions of this section shall be a misdemeanor. 18-3302C. PROHIBITED CONDUCT. any person obtaining a license under the provisions of section 18-3302, Idaho Code, shall not: (1) Carry a concealed weapon in a courthouse, juvenile detention facility or jail, public or private school, except as provided in subsection (4)(f) of section 18-3302D, Idaho Code; its another case of ignorant security guard... brickey vs. idaho reaffirmed the state of idaho can not regulate the open carrying of a firearm on public property. only private property owners can while u are on their property. Last edited on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 12:42 am by Hiredgun30 |
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IdahoCorsair State Researcher 
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It's interesting to specifically note the several circumstances/places that CC is illegal, while OC remains legal.  |
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Hiredgun30 Regular Member
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anybody else think that OC is LEGAL on bsu campus??? ill show you why i believe so... BRICKEY VS. IDAHO The second amendment to the federal constitution is in the following language: 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.' The language of section 11, article I of the constitution of Idaho, is as follows: 'The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense, but the legislature shall regulate the exercise of this right by law.' Under these constitutional provisions, the legislature has no power to prohibit a citizen from bearing arms in any portion of the state of Idaho, whether within or without the corporate limits of cities, towns, and villages."Brickey, 8 Ida. 597, at 598-99, 70 p. 609 (1902) |
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carracer Regular Member
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Hmmm.... I don't think I'll be the one to test that , but, you are welcome to! Let us know how that works out for ya! |
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Toast Regular Member
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As far as I know, BSU will impose sanctions on any student who carries on campus, up to and including expulsion from BSU. They state that they will ask any non-student who carries on campus to leave, and if they do not, charge them with tresspassing. Based on my knowledge of Idaho preemption laws, that isn't actually legal, since the grounds of the university theoretically are public (the buildings may fall under different jurisdiction). However, there may be some additional aspect to it that allows them to treat the campus as non-public (which I disagree with). I'm not an expert with Idaho's preemption laws, but that is my understanding at least. Here is their documentation regarding it: http://www.boisestate.edu/policy/policy_docs/1080_PossessionofFirearmsWeaponsonUniversityOwnedorControlledPremises.pdf I love how they say: "A safe and secure environment is a fundamental requirement for fulfilling the University’s mission of teaching, research, and public service. Boise State University is committed to maintaining an environment that is free of violence. This obligation includes eliminating recognized hazards from the campus community that contribute to violence or serious harm." and then as a conclusion of that, disallow students from carrying. |
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DCR Regular Member
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You are exactly right - all of the state's post-secondary institutions have such a policy, often buried in the student code of conduct. And they generally will just begin the disciplinary process right then and there, whatever the sanction they seek to impose. And me being the stinkah I am, I'd like to see a little chaos over it. I have an idea that will cause LOTS of political fireworks for our viewing pleasure. And it won't require anyone to carry on campus or have personal interactions with law enforcement or university personnel or officials. I think we could all learn a lot - and it would be FUN to read - if a member of this board were to post their correspondence, and correspondence they receive, here on the board - right? Sorry, I can't do it due to some professional obligations where my employment would be jeopardized if I did - any non-state employee types interested? How about the individual who worked on or pushed the recent legislation - isn't that person a member? They'd be ideal, especially if they happened to be an elected legislator, because they get IMMEDIATE (as in "drop everything else and work in this pronto, deputy") attention from the Attorney General's office and... .....the same level of attention from the entity that these colleges and universities answer to....the State Board of Education. I'll post the most ideal and fun process (for members and viewers on this Board) - yes, there is a way to do this to maximize the attention it gets (and our fun) - in a subsequent post here if anyone's interested. Last edited on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 09:58 pm by DCR |
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DCR Regular Member
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I'll give you a hint - and thank you to Toast for posting the link to BSU's policy: Take a lookee-loo here: http://www.boardofed.idaho.gov/policies/i/I.A.Policy-MakingAuthority07-08.pdf The pertinent language is on page 2, Item A(4) - " All Board Governing Policies and Procedures and the internal policies and procedures of its institutions, agencies and school will comply with and be in conformance to applicable laws. And this is only the beginning....I've accumulated lots of information on this issue from personal research on the "inside" and from seeing how "hard questions" like this get treated by all the involved levels of "educrats" and state officials, elected and appointed.... Do it right (well, okay, how I think is right  ) and our brave author can smoke out all the individual players who have personal and/or professional disagreements with open carry, concealed carry, or RKBA in general, caising a spotlight to be shone brightly on them for the public's consumption. There'll be a little typing involved (I'll help), some emailing back and forth with me and whoever is involved, a few postage stamps, and posting it all on the forum (again, I can't do that because I'm a 'puter newb, who obviously has just learned about emoticons; that'd be way over my head), and that's about it. BUT - jump the gun and fire off a letter to a legislator or the Governor, and we don't get to fully flesh out the issue - so please, DON'T do that yet...ok?C'mon, I've been itching for the opportunity to pass on what I've learned to a brave soul, then sit back and watch it all unfold!! Last edited on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 10:42 pm by DCR |
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DCR Regular Member
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*sigh* I'm disappointed there's no takers. Everyone here a paper tiger unless there's real ones and tv cameras? Here's how to do it; go have fun: 1. Write the BSU president's office (letter, not an email; emails are useless). Do NOT include your phone number; only an address to which they can send a reply. Indicate you are a member of the public who has occasion to be on or near BSU, sometimes alone. You learned of this policy (the one Toast posted) and quote it. Ask how BSU can reconcile this policy with Idaho law, with Idaho being a pre-emption state for firearms regulation, and State Board of Education policy. Quote the State Board policy. Then ask for guidance as to whether you may carry a defensive weapon to assure your safety on the BSU campus. This will smoke out who the gun grabbers are; policy is written from the President's office. 2. If you get no response after 21 days, or a response you don't like, you write (again, a letter, no emails) to the Executive Director of the Office of the State Board of Education and one Board member directly, at their home or place of business. I'd suggest Milford Terrell - he's the president of the Board and a huge BSU fan, and local. Ask the same question, and mention you've already written BSU. Send a photocopy of the letter you sent to the BSU president and a photocopy of any response they sent. If they didn't respond, say so. Ask for clarification from the State Board of Education since you received (1) an answer contrary to Board Policy and state law, or (2) NO answer from BSU. The Board meets every month so ask that you get a response to address this urgent problem to avoid any repercussions of ensuring your own personal safety on BSU's campus. Watch the website to see if your item gets put on the agenda - it'd be fun to go listen to them talk about it if the meeting is held in your town. This will smoke out the gun grabbers in the office of the State Board of Education. 3. If you don't get a response from the individual board member or the Office of the State Board of Education, or get an anti-gun response, write ALL of the members of the State Board of Education (their name, but care of the State Board of Education Office), and cc the Governor's office. Write the same things as before - but take it up a notch. Paint the conflict as one between the Idaho Constitution and Idaho's pre-emption law on one side, versus the BSU policy on the other. Explain how you've written to BSU and got [no response/the wrong response], wrote to the State Board office and a Board member and got [no response/the wrong response], and now you have no choice but to seek clarification from the whole board/Governor's office. Include copies of all the previous letters you've sent, and received, at each level until this point. This will get interesting, and will smoke out some more anti-RKBA sentiment. Believe me, folks, just because the Governor is Republican, and all the members of the State Board of Education are Republican and were appointed by Rebublican Governors (Except Luna - he's the Republican Superintendent of Public Instruction we elected) doesn't mean they're solid on RKBA - it just means they belong to the right party to get the positions they're in. 4. At this point you can wait to see how or if anyone resopnds, or turn it up a notch, and send the whole packet to your favorite, or at least current, state legislators. Send the whole packet, and ask for clarification in the law because a reasonable citizen will read the Idaho Constitution and pre-emption laws and believe they are within their rights to open carry or concealed carry on a college campus in Idaho, but when they do, they will face law enforcement and university sanctions, and given the conflict, the people of the state of Idaho need clarity and guidance. At this point you should send copies of all letters to and from everyone to Bill Roberts, the education reporter the Statesman, or maybe Dan Popkey, the politics guy. They have a knack for turning spotlights on government quandries. Oh, and do it soon - cause if there's enough noise and attention by mid December, you know it will be on several legislator's minds when they convene in January to start on the new laws and whatnot. Just my $.02 - keep the change. |
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Hiredgun30 Regular Member
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i am up for the challenge.... i just received my FREE copy of The essential 2nd amendment manual, I read all 163 pages in a day... it had EVERYTHING u need to debate anti gunners... including case law regarding 2nd amendment http://www.glennbeck.com go to sponsors secction and click NRA |
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t11spanner Regular Member 
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Add Red Robin near the mall in Boise. I was up there refereeing hockey yesterday, and went to the gun show, and since I have no Red Robin here in the Nevada High Desert, went in. Of course, I was concealed until I took off my jacket....For some reason it was really hot in there. The staff seemed to not care, there were some cross looks from a couple mothers, and one husband seemed a little jealous... Also add the Flying J Just off the interstate on Overland. The little Spanish girl at the register looked, but never flinched, and one of Boise's Finest in Blue whom I held the door for looked, smiled and said thank you, have a good day, which I returned the greeting.... CCW'd in High Desert HD, as I do at all HD dealers, cause sometimes the owners are a little left thinking.... Overall, I have been up to to Boise several times to work some games, and I find that hardly anyone in Boise cares if you carry...... Oh, the Maverick on ID 55 towards Marsing is okay with OC too.... Carl in Winnemucca Last edited on Sun Nov 9th, 2008 05:57 pm by t11spanner |
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idahomilitia Regular Member 
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Brian, You can add the iMax theater on Overland as a business hostile to the right to carry. When you buy your ticket, you'll see a sign on the window saying no firearms, including concealed with a ccp. Of course I routinely ignore these signs as the worst they can do is ask me to leave on the scant chance they find out. James |
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idahomilitia Regular Member
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Seems fair since criminals ignore these signs too. |
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Vandal Regular Member
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I ignore the signs at Edwards both at Overland and Cole and Downtown. Ok, actually I laugh and walk right by the rent a cop i have seen there from time to time. |
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jobob Regular Member 
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You might check Idaho's preemption law which specifically allows colleges/universities to regulate firearms. This is from the exceptions in SB 1441, which was passed last spring: "Ordinances adopted under this subsection may not apply to or affect: (c) The authority of the board of regents of the university of Idaho, the boards of trustees of the state colleges and universities, the board of professional-technical education and the boards of trustees of each of the community colleges established under chapter 21, title 33, Idaho Code, to regulate in matters relating to firearms." Unfortunately, the colleges were exempted from the preemption law because it would not have passed otherwise. Except for that, Idaho has one of the strongest preemption laws in the country. |
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Vandal Regular Member
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I am fully aware of that BS about the Universities. CCW on campus at UI sparked a huge debate at UI last year that continues to this day. There is a student group up there that is working on getting the law changed to properly reflect state law. The primary argument against us is that college kids would get drunk and kill everyone and why do we need guns on campus, they will only cause issues. I tend to carry anyway and haven't been caught in a year and a half. check out concealedcampus.com or for U of Idaho specific http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2317999404 |
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carey Regular Member 
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It is completely legal in the state of Idaho to ccw into a bar or facility that sells alcohol. However, you should not even think of taking a drink - even a sip. If you end up in an altercation that requires you to use your firearm for self-defense, you could end up in more trouble than you bargained for. Your judgement, reputation, decision making ... everything, will become suspect. If you carry in a bar, just like driving - don't drink. |
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shad0wfax Regular Member 
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Vandal wrote: [SNIP] I tend to carry anyway and haven't been caught in a year and a half. That really isn't something I would post where the general public can see it. This forum gets quite a bit of traffic and I wouldn't be shocked if some of the more extreme activists in the anti-gun crowd at UofI (faculty or students) skim the ID section of these boards and CC boards as well. |
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4liberty Regular Member 
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1st ammendment under attack as well. Let's face it at some point we all will have to defend (with a gun) our right to carry. The nutty left will not stop until they control everything. There it appears I've said too much. |
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shad0wfax Regular Member
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4liberty wrote: 1st ammendment under attack as well. Let's face it at some point we all will have to defend (with a gun) our right to carry. The nutty left will not stop until they control everything. I'm not suggesting that we moderate our words here in a 1st amendment context. I'm suggesting that people who post here should not publicly declare criminal intent or post the admission of criminal actions in this very public forum. (It's also a good idea to keep your mouth shout about all ongoing investigations and legal proceedings until they are resolved and your attorney has given you the go-ahead to go public with the story.) I'm advocating common sense in terms of self-moderation not censorship in terms of others moderating us. I'm also suggesting that people who violate administrative law/code by concealing on campus at UofI don't brag about doing so. I could care less if they have an ID permit and CC on the UofI campus. I'd just hate to see someone from UofI (like a faculty member) read it and have the person detained by the campus security, searched, have their firearm siezed, and then be expelled from the UofI for violating their administrative codes... None of it would be criminal, but it could happen. It happened to a CC holder in Oregon recently. Go look at the threads about it. He's facing expulsion and that might hurt his chances of being accepted at any other University as well. |
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American Rattlesnake Regular Member 
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shad0wfax wrote: I'm suggesting that people who post here should not publicly declare criminal intent or post the admission of criminal actions in this very public forum. Good advice. I'm also suggesting that people who violate administrative law/code by concealing on campus at UofI don't brag about doing so. Nobody was bragging. Vandal's comment was simply a statement of fact. I could care less if they have an ID permit and CC on the UofI campus. I'd just hate to see someone from UofI (like a faculty member) read it and have the person detained by the campus security, searched, have their firearm siezed, and then be expelled from the UofI for violating their administrative codes... None of it would be criminal, but it could happen. True enough, but a person who simply reads the forum is going to have considerable difficulty identifying individual posters. It happened to a CC holder in Oregon recently. Go look at the threads about it. He's facing expulsion and that might hurt his chances of being accepted at any other University as well. The circumstances in Oregon are different. The University that is trying to expel that student is clearly in violation of the law. His acceptance to other Universities will not be affected by this situation. |
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Vandal Regular Member
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Our "security" is the Moscow PD. They cannot detain me, seize my weapon or search my off campus place without a warrant. There is no PC for a search and seizure merely by me having a firearm on campus and violating something that is un-Constitutional in the first place. The odds of getting expelled are minimal as they would have to defend, in court, why they are attempting to enforce a rule in a state-run institution that is in violation of the state and federal constitutions. remember with UI we are talking about a rule, not a law and rules don't hold up well in court as there is no substance behind them. I have discussed this with a lawyer a few times should anything happen. If the UI admin folks want to find me, I wish then luck in obtaining a warrant to get the OCDO folks to give up my information when I am not in violation of any actual law. I can and do carry at WSU since I am not a student and am not governed by their rules. |
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American Rattlesnake Regular Member
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Vandal wrote: Our "security" is the Moscow PD. They cannot detain me, seize my weapon or search my off campus place without a warrant. There is no PC for a search and seizure merely by me having a firearm on campus and violating something that is un-Constitutional in the first place. Also, Latah County Sheriff is on record encouraging lawful concealed carry on the UI campus. As for the rest of your post, I agree 100%. |
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Vandal Regular Member
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Thanks, it's nice to have a little backup now and then. |
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shad0wfax Regular Member
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Vandal wrote: Thanks, it's nice to have a little backup now and then. I'm not attacking you. You don't need "backup." I don't disagree with what you're doing on the campuses either. I simply think it's unwise to publicly (regardless of how anonymously) claim that you CC on campus for a number of reasons. Additionally, I never claimed that any detainment, search, or seizure would be lawful and I was inferring that if that were to happen (regardless of how remote the possibility is) that it would happen on-campus. No one said anything about raiding your home.  We're all absolutely and completely off-topic from the OP too. Edit: removed lame smiley. Last edited on Wed Feb 11th, 2009 01:16 am by shad0wfax |
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Vandal Regular Member
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shad0wfax wrote:
It happens from time to time. I was mainly just explaining what MPD and UI couldn't do to back up my arguments. I didn't see you as attacking me or anything remotely like that. I just tend to go in depth on my replies. |
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FMCDH Regular Member 
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I have not seen this mentioned yet by anyone. If I am reading this right, it means that only an unloaded and concealed firearm may be carried in State Parks? If this is true, then shouldn't it be included in the "no carry" section of the Idaho OC Pamphlet? Or at least give it some mention. If anyone can give a bit of clarification on this, it would be much appreciated. I was checking Idaho laws out at http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/idaho.pdf in preparation for a trip there for 4th of July. IDAHO ADMINISTRATIVE CODE IDAPA 26.01.20 - Rules Governing the Administration Department of Parks and Recreation of Parks & Recreation Areas & Facilities Page 15 IAC 2009 600.PERSONAL SAFETY, FIREARMS. No person may discharge firearms or any other projectile firing device, or otherwise purposefully or negligently endanger the life of any person or creature within any land administered by the Department. All firearms brought onto lands administered by the Department shall be unloaded at all times and either out of sight, or in a vehicle, except when used for legal hunting as authorized in Section 575 in this chapter, or for exhibition or at designated ranges as authorized by the Director. http://adm.idaho.gov/adminrules/rules/idapa26/0120.pdf |
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rpyne Regular Member
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Vandal wrote: I am fully aware of that BS about the Universities. CCW on campus at UI sparked a huge debate at UI last year that continues to this day. There is a student group up there that is working on getting the law changed to properly reflect state law. You can always point to Utah for an example to shoot down (pun intended) their argument. Utah has complete open/concealed carry at all public institutions of higher education with never an incident. |
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carracer Regular Member
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Also curious about the "no concealed" at court houses. Does this mean open carry would be legal? Ada and Canyon County have security check points. |
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IDEagleEye Regular Member
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idahomilitia wrote: Brian, As for the iMax- which is part of Edwards Cinemas on Overland - not being gun friendly (not that it's an excuse - but), they had an "accidental discharge" in their mens room several years ago. Seems a person with a CWP couldn't resist "playing" in the stall, and a loud bang ensued. (and it wasn't from their head banging on the stall door)Not the brightest shining moment in the fight for understanding from those that don't "get" being armed. Haven't seen the sign in the window so it must not be very obvious, and cc there every time I go. No problems thus far...but I'll look next time I go. Last edited on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 06:36 pm by IDEagleEye |
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idahoguy84 Regular Member 
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FMCDH wrote:I have not seen this mentioned yet by anyone. If I am reading this right, it means that only an unloaded and concealed firearm may be carried in State Parks? My guess is you found an old version of the rules. I accessed the PDF you linked to above, and Rule 26.01.20.600 simply states: 600.PERSONAL SAFETY, FIREARMS No person may purposefully or negligently endanger the life of any person or creature within any land administered by the Department. No person may discharge firearms or other projectile firing devices within any lands administered by the Department, except in the lawful defense of person, persons, or property or in the course of lawful hunting, or for exhibition or at designated ranges as authorized by the Director. (7-1-09) My guess is the Parks and Rec Board just got around to updating their rules to reflect the firearm regulation preemption bill passed a couple of years ago. I.C. §18-3302J(2) PREEMPTION OF FIREARMS REGULATION, states "Except as expressly authorized by state statute, no county, city, agency, board or any other political subdivision of this state may adopt or enforce any law, rule, regulation, or ordinance which regulates in any manner the sale, acquisition, transfer, ownership, possession, transportation, carrying or storage of firearms or any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition." The state statute that authorizes the Idaho Park and Recreation Board to promulgate "rules as may be necessary for the proper administration... and the use and protection of park and recreational areas subject to its jurisdiction" is I.C. §67-4223 POWER OF BOARD. Nowhere in §67-4223 does the word firearm even appear, let alone any mention made of granting the board power to regulate the carry of firearms on state park lands. The preemption statute requires "express authorization" from the legislature as recorded in the state statute for any state board to have the power to regulate firearms at all. Because no such express authorization was given to the Park and Recreation Board, they have no power to regulate anything regarding firearms except for discharge. So you have nothing to worry about if plan on carrying in a state park while visiting. |
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FMCDH Regular Member
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idahoguy84 wrote: So you have nothing to worry about if plan on carrying in a state park while visiting. Thanks for the clarification. Everything I had read suggested that State Park carry was legal, but when I saw that, it kind of threw me. About a week too late however, but that's ok.  I carried in the parks anyway on advise from a few military friends in the state. |
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josie02av Regular Member 
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So from my understanding I can carry my weapon unconcealed, as long as I am not hanging out at a school,( which I only go to the schools to pick-up or drop off), or a bar, which I don't drink. I have not gone down and paid the $50.00 to get my concealed weaponhs yet. I always carry my gun when I am camping, hiking or fishing. I just was not sure about around town. Thank you all for the information, I have lived in many of the western states like, CA, CO, WY, AZ,NV,UT and MT. So remembering all the laws is hard. I try ti just stick with common sense. |
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aadvark Regular Member
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IN IDAHO YOU CAN OPEN CARRY ANYWHERE EXCEPT SCHOOLS K-12. COLLEGES, UNIVERSITIES, AND OTHER ADULT EDUCATION ESTABLISHMENTS ARE ALL LEGAL TO CARRY OPENLY, OR CONCEALED WITH A PERMIT, PER IDAHO LAW. IN IDAHO, WITH A PERMIT, YOU CAN CARRY ANYWHERE CONCELAED EXCEPT: COURTHOUSES, JAILS/DENTION CENTERS, OR SCHOOLS K-12. THE ONLY PLACE THAT IS OFF LIMITS TO OPEN AND CONCEALED CARRY IN IDAHO IS SCHOOLS K-12. IF YOU WANT TO GO INSIDE A COURTHOUSE OR JAIL, OPEN CARRY. A PERMIT WILL NOT HELP YOU WHILE AT THESE PLACES. AS ALWAYS, PRIVATE PROPERTY MAY HAVE THEIR OWN RESTRICTIONS, AND IF YOU DO NOT ABIDE BY THEM THEY CAN ASK YOU TO LEAVE. IF ASKED TO LEAVE, AND YOU DO NOT, THEN IT IS TRESPASSING. |
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IndianaBoy79 Regular Member 
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Not sure on the k9-12 issue, as the Federal Gun Free Zone act may actually allow an exception for concealed license holders. State law is silent on the matter of open carry there, it is the federal law we're looking at here. I need to do more research here. You can conceal or OC into a bar. It's against the law for you to be intoxicated while CONCEALING, but the law is once again silent on the matter of OC. That being said, your not doing the OC movement any good by having a beer in your hand and a gun on your hip. The law is silent on OC when it comes to courts and jails as well. The courts have given judges LOTS of leiway in the past in making their own rules in the court that they are in charge of. And while the law is silent on the issue, good luck trying to carry into a jail. lol Try not to apply the concealed carry statutes to open carry. It's a common mistake, but the legislature in Idaho has no power to regulate open carry in any manner, only concealed carry. OC is your right, concealed carry is a privilege. Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2009 06:10 pm by IndianaBoy79 |
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josie02av Regular Member
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Thank you, that is what I thought. i had a conceal carry in Las Vegas back in the 80's and early 90's until I moved to Idaho. And then I have never gone down and got a permit here. I have learned that most IHP and Sheriff are pretty cool about carrying a gun. They have not bothered me for having mine on. In Utah they always harrass me as much as possible. Every time I was pulled over in Utah for anything I ended up in jail for suspicion of trafficking drugs. Only because I was driving a nice car and had a 9mm. After spending 51/2 hours in jail in Nephi, they released me with no charges what so ever. I was driving 60 in a 65, when they pulled me over. So I guess the moral to the story is stay out of Utah. |
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rpyne Regular Member
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josie02av wrote: Thank you, that is what I thought. i had a conceal carry in Las Vegas back in the 80's and early 90's until I moved to Idaho. And then I have never gone down and got a permit here. I have learned that most IHP and Sheriff are pretty cool about carrying a gun. They have not bothered me for having mine on. 60 in a 65 in a fancy car will get you every time on any interstate south of Utah County unless you are 60+ years old, especially with out of state plates. It is the classic profile of a drug runner. With few exceptions, 5 to 10 over is considered "normal" in Utah. As far as carry laws, Utah is less restrictive than Idaho. It is easier to get a concealed permit in Idaho but the Utah permit has much wider acceptance. |
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josie02av Regular Member
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I do know when I was in Vegas, their gun lwas both OC and Concealed were very open. The only place I could not carry was on Nellis AFB. That has probably changed since 9/11. Cali I have not had any issues yet, but I was a bit more caution when I am out there. |
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IndianaBoy79 Regular Member
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rpyne wrote: As far as carry laws, Utah is less restrictive than Idaho. It is easier to get a concealed permit in Idaho but the Utah permit has much wider acceptance. How are carry laws less restrictive in Utah? Not meant to be taken argumentatively; I really don't know. |
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rpyne Regular Member
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josie02av wrote: I do know when I was in Vegas, their gun lwas both OC and Concealed were very open. The only place I could not carry was on Nellis AFB. That has probably changed since 9/11. Cali I have not had any issues yet, but I was a bit more caution when I am out there. I haven't researched to find when they took effect, but Nevada has some very restrictive carry laws. You cannot carry in any public building or any "school" from infant day care to university or on any property that has any portion being used for or by any school. Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2009 06:56 pm by rpyne |
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rpyne Regular Member
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IndianaBoy79 wrote: rpyne wrote:As far as carry laws, Utah is less restrictive than Idaho. It is easier to get a concealed permit in Idaho but the Utah permit has much wider acceptance. One big one is that concealed firearms permit holders are expressly permitted to carry, open or concealed, on or in ANY public school, Pre-K through University. Basically, the only public places that unlicensed (Utah Unloaded*) OC is not allowed is courts, jails, mental institutions and schools. A permit holder is exempt from the school and unloaded provisions. *76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded. (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position. (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired. (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders. Edit: spelling Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2009 07:08 pm by rpyne |
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josie02av Regular Member
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I have another question about open carry. If I am carrying my gun in a holster on my side and am wearing a jacket over it because either it is cold or raining. Is that considered concealed, or is Idaho pretty leaniant on that? |
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josie02av Regular Member
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rpyne wrote: IndianaBoy79 wrote:rpyne wrote:As far as carry laws, Utah is less restrictive than Idaho. It is easier to get a concealed permit in Idaho but the Utah permit has much wider acceptance. So have a loaded clip in the handle but not a shell in the chamber is loaded or unloaded? |
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American Rattlesnake Regular Member
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josie02av wrote: I have another question about open carry. If I am carrying my gun in a holster on my side and am wearing a jacket over it because either it is cold or raining. Is that considered concealed, or is Idaho pretty leaniant on that? My understanding is that if the pistol is concealed from common observation, it is legally concealed. That said, I could not find a legislative definition of "concealed" in the Statutes. |
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IndianaBoy79 Regular Member
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That doesn't sound less restrictive to me. Idaho does not prohibit open carry at pubic schools either. But then we get into federal law and I'm confused on the issue ATM. Unloaded? Wow.... I'd never carry an unloaded gun, legal or not. I would like a law to further clarify our right to carry on college campuses as the State of Idaho and any city within it has no power to regulate open carry in any manner. They simply do not recognize that and will throw you out of school if caught with a gun. As a non-student, you may get thrown off the grounds. Not fun. I can't think of anywhere really in Idaho law where OC is restricted at all. Only judges have restricted jails and courts, and federal law sometimes tries to override our states sovereignty in this area as well. Tell ya what...lets line 100 people from Utah on one side of the road, and 100 from Idaho on the other. We'll face each other and draw and see who is restricted in their carry more lol. I have a feeling I can draw faster than you can load and fire. Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2009 07:31 pm by IndianaBoy79 |
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josie02av Regular Member
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Then I am going to stick to my 2nd amendment rights and that is that. I will get a concealed before snow flies this year just to not get in trouble on a technicallity. I don't see if the weapon is in a hoslter on your belt on your side. And you have a coat or vest on for warmth and it covers your gun how it is concealed. You are not purposely trying to hide it. You are obeying the laws by keeping it in a holster, on you side and no round in the chamber. I will never carry a gun without a clip in it. I don't mind not having a round in the chamber, since that takes less the 1/2 a second. |
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American Rattlesnake Regular Member
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josie02av wrote: I don't see if the weapon is in a hoslter on your belt on your side. And you have a coat or vest on for warmth and it covers your gun how it is concealed. If it is in a holster on your side and covered by a coat or vest, then it is hidden from view. Thus, it is concealed. As far as having no round in the chamber, that's a Utah restriction, not an Idaho law. |
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IndianaBoy79 Regular Member
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What state do you live in? Nothin on your name to show it, making it harder to give you any advice. Having it under your coat is concealed. Not every word (most of them in fact) is defined in Idaho law. Words have meaning and the courts generally take words for what they mean unless their is some kind of dispute or it is a "grey" word that can be taken in many ways. Concealed, by very definition, means to keep from being seen, found, observed, or discovered. Your intent is not the question...by putting on a coat or vest you know that you are now keeping it from being seen, found, or observed. You can say you were trying to keep warm all you want to the courts, you've still concealed your weapon. Here in Idaho the law is silent on how you have to carry. Would a shotgun need a holster? Probably not. A handgun could be taped to your forehead, but I wouldn't recommend it. They'd probably have you committed! In Idaho at least, you can load it up, chamber included.Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2009 07:50 pm by IndianaBoy79 |
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josie02av Regular Member
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Sorry I will fix my profile. I live in Chubbuck, Idaho. |
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rpyne Regular Member
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IndianaBoy79 wrote: That doesn't sound less restrictive to me. Idaho does not prohibit open carry at pubic schools either. But then we get into federal law and I'm confused on the issue ATM. I suggest you read:
Unloaded? Wow.... I'd never carry an unloaded gun, legal or not. Did you read the definition of Utah Unloaded? Most states would consider it loaded. It is basically just not one in the pipe. I would like a law to further clarify our right to carry on college campuses as the State of Idaho and any city within it has no power to regulate open carry in any manner. They simply do not recognize that and will throw you out of school if caught with a gun. As a non-student, you may get thrown off the grounds. Not fun. Again, read the law,
There are a number of "little" places all over in Idaho law that I don't have the time to dig up for you, however, one new one was passed just this year requiring ALL firearms to be unloaded, locked in a secure container and separate from any ammunition in ANY day care facility, including home operated day care. Tell ya what...lets line 100 people from Utah on one side of the road, and 100 from Idaho on the other. We'll face each other and draw and see who is restricted in their carry more lol. I have a feeling I can draw faster than you can load and fire. Racking the slide during he draw only adds about 1/4 second to the draw and fire time, but that really doesn't matter because Utah permit holders can carry fully loaded, cocked and locked, open or concealed. BTW, I am an Idaho native and lived there the first 25 years of my life. I still spend a considerable amount of time in Idaho and have been hassled by Idaho LE far more than I have by Utah LE. |
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josie02av Regular Member
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Since my gun does not have any safeties, I always carry it iwthout a round in the chamber. I would hate to have it fire by accident for any reason. I believe safety is always first and foremost. |
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IndianaBoy79 Regular Member
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The first part you quote (3302c) only concerns conceal carry. Show me the same prohibiting open carry. I was unfamiliar with the specifics of 3302D and had mistakenly remembered "concealed" in there as well. In either case, it is in violation of the Idaho Constitution Article 1 section 11, which gives no power to the state or local government to regulate open carry, only concealed. It is also in violation of Brickey vis Idaho. http://www.guncite.com/court/state/70p609.html ( In re Brickey, 8 Idaho 597, 70 P. 609, 101 Am. St. Rep. 215, 1 Ann. Cas. 55 (1902)) BEARING ARMS--CONSTITUTIONAL LAW--CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS. 1. The act of the territorial legislature approved February 4, 1889, which prohibits private persons from carrying deadly weapons within the limits or confines of any city, town, or village in Idaho, contravenes the provisions of the second amendment to the federal constitution and the provisions of section 11, art. 1, of the constitution of Idaho, and is void. 2. While it is undoubtedly within the power of the legislature to prohibit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons, and such regulation is a proper exercise of police power, yet the legislature does not possess the power to prohibit the carrying of firearms, as the right to do so is guarantied to the citizen both by our federal and state constitutions. Read the whole case, it's interesting. The preemption bill you quote doesn't apply at all. The legislature can only cede power to a political subdivision that it has itself. That law was based on the authority of Article 1 Section 11 giving the legislature the power to regulate concealed carry only. As far as I know. 3302D is in violation of our highest law and therefor null and void. I'm not arguing that we might get harnessed, thrown out, or arrested, but it is clearly unlawful and needs challenging. Idaho can only regulate concealed carry, period. The preemption law was written to help enforce the rights we already have. Unfortunately, it didn't do a good enough job of doing so. As it draws its authority on Article 1, Section 11, it is reasonable to believe the part allowing colleges to "regulate in the area of firearms) only applies to concealed. I again volunteer for the arrest. Who's got some cash? There are LOTS of county laws and other local laws (I've got a list of 63 right now) that violate the preemption bill as well. As Saint found out at the library, and we found out at the fair, those laws can no longer be enforced even though they are on the books. I look at the above quoted laws in the same way; again, I don't argue the danger of it. We're speaking law here, not what cops or local authorities will do. The State of Idaho simply has no power ceded by WE the people to regulate anything concerning open carry. Our Supreme Court agrees. Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2009 09:12 pm by IndianaBoy79 |
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rpyne Regular Member
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IndianaBoy79 wrote: Who's got some cash? If you don't have the means to fight the battle, you have already lost. |
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josie02av Regular Member
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I just want to thank you all. Being new to this site, I have learned more in the last hour or so of browsing this site then I have learned ever. I have sent some links to friends of mine. Again thank you all from a newbie to this site. |
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IndianaBoy79 Regular Member
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rpyne wrote: IndianaBoy79 wrote:Who's got some cash? LOL I have the means to fight the battle; just not on that particular front yet. Thank you for clarifying what 3302D for me. Honest mistake. Be careful applying 3302C to OC though, as that clearly states concealed. This is a perfect time to remind everyone to check their own facts against the law and make their own mind up about things. Never trust me or anyone else to give you the correct advice. Even when we study things in depth, it can get confusing and there are different interpretations to different laws. Review the law for yourself and consult and attorney before you take any questionable actions that may put you in jeopardy. Last edited on Tue Sep 1st, 2009 09:22 pm by IndianaBoy79 |
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rpyne Regular Member
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IndianaBoy79 wrote: Thank you for clarifying what 3302D for me. Honest mistake. No sweat, it is very easy to miss things in the law even after reading several times. This is a perfect time to remind everyone to check their own facts against the law and make their own mind up about things. Never trust me or anyone else to give you the correct advice. Even when we study things in depth, it can get confusing and there are different interpretations to different laws. Review the law for yourself and consult and attorney before you take any questionable actions that may put you in jeopardy. Absolutely! There is no substitute for reading and knowing the law right from the statutes. |
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MJMcMahon Regular Member
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josie02av wrote: I just want to thank you all. Being new to this site, I have learned more in the last hour or so of browsing this site then I have learned ever. I have sent some links to friends of mine. I'll add my voice to yours on that point.....great stuff here! |
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Todd33 Regular Member
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I started looking at this website a while back and just wanted to voice my appreciation for all the supporters of our 2nd amendment rights. This thread has been particularly useful. I now keep a printout of all the Idaho statutes that I found pertinent to carrying firearms in my wallet, just in case of an issue with LEO's. Upon making this list I did have a question regarding the concealed weapons law when it comes to vehicles and I'm looking for clarification. Any input would be appreciated. Following laws are taken from Idaho's website http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=180330002.K 18-3302.ISSUANCE OF LICENSES TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS. ............. (7) Except in the person’s place of abode or fixed place of business, or on property in which the person has any ownership or leasehold interest, a person shall not carry a concealed weapon without a license to carry a concealed weapon. For the purposes of this section, a concealed weapon means any dirk, dirk knife, bowie knife, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other deadly or dangerous weapon. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any lawfully possessed shotgun or rifle. (9) While in any motor vehicle, inside the limits or confines of any city, a person shall not carry a concealed weapon on or about his person without a license to carry a concealed weapon. This shall not apply to any firearm located in plain view whether it is loaded or unloaded. A firearm may be concealed legally in a motor vehicle so long as the weapon is disassembled or unloaded. My question is, can I carry my shotgun loaded and concealed in my vehicle without a permit? While this would appear to violate section 9 it seems that section 7 would allow this as it is a legally possessed shotgun and should not require a permit to carry concealed, or are the concealment laws different for vehicles as opposed to carrying on your person? I realize this is sort of a nitpicky question but I'd rather carry my gun loaded (nothing in the chamber, of course) than unloaded and I don't really have a place for it in my SUV that I would consider to be in plain view as the law dictates. Thank you in advance for your input. |
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Hiredgun30 Regular Member
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the law gives you 3 good options for having a firearm in your vehicle. 1) carrying it loaded and concealed with a ccw, in your vehicle. 2) carrying it loaded or unloaded "in plain sight " in your vehicle without a ccw. 3) carrying it concealed while having it unloaded or disassembled. keep in mind there is case law regarding this issue. if you choose to carry concealed (loaded and assembled) without a ccw, you get to wear silver bracelets !!! state vs. haley addreses this. if you choose option 3- keep in mind that idaho has defined what " on or about you person" means. state vs. mcNary (idaho)= the general test of concealment is whether a weapon is so carried as not to discernible by ordinary observation. state vs. button(idaho) = where the officer could only see a small portion of a weapon in the defendant's car from one particular vantage point, the weapon was not discernible from ordinary observation, and the defendant was properly arrested for carrying a concealed weapon. there is alot more but youll have to look on page 314 in idahos law manual for title 18 chapter 33. Last edited on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 06:56 am by Hiredgun30 |
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Todd33 Regular Member
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That's kind of what I figured, just seemed to me that there could be a circumstance where those laws would contradict each other. I guess my confusion comes from the clause that states the concealed weapons rule doesn't apply to shotguns and rifles. Thanks for the response, much appreciated. |
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