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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Oklahoma > The Oklahoman: "Gun association seeks right to 'bare' arms in Oklahoma"
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Oklahoma > The Oklahoman: "Gun association seeks right to 'bare' arms in Oklahoma"
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Mike Super Moderator
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Unfortunately the article did not include the link to the online petition to restore the righ to open carry in Oklahoma at http://www.petitiononline.com/oc4ok/petition.html --- AP Version: http://www.kten.com/Global/story.asp?S=9205046 --- http://newsok.com/gun-association-seeks-right-to-bare-arms-in-oklahoma/article/3313439 Gun association seeks right to 'bare' arms in Oklahoma Capitol: Group opposes six states’ requirements to conceal weapons Comments  14BY JOHN GREINER Published: October 20, 2008  Donald Ohse is part of an online effort to obtain signatures from supporters urging legislators to pass a law allowing citizens to openly carry guns. By jim beckel, the oklahoman To at least one Midwest City man, openly carrying a gun is a matter of safety for him and his family. Featured Gallery  Fears of shoot-outs like those of the Old West are just fear-mongering, he said. Donald Ohse is part of a movement to change laws in several states, including Oklahoma, so people can openly carry their weapons. This movement is an online drive to get enough signatures of like-minded people to influence legislators to pass open carry laws. He said he’s gotten 1,300 signatures. Ohse already is licensed under Oklahoma law to carry a concealed weapon. But Ohse thinks openly carrying his pistol would be better and safer for him and others. If he or his family were in danger, it would be a lot easier if he could quickly reach his gun instead of having it hidden in his coat and having to pull it from his pocket, he said. "It’s not like you could see something happening and, say, ‘Hey, give me a moment,’” he said. "The quicker the access, the better in a life-or-death situation.” Being able to openly carry his gun would have helped him when someone once tried to run over him following an accident, Ohse said. Ohse saw a car accident and went to help. One driver tried to leave the scene of the crash. Ohse was behind the car writing down the tag number when the driver backed up. The driver stopped when he saw Ohse fumble in his coat and pull out a gun, Ohse said. When the movement began In 2004 in Virginia, Mike Stollenwerk and John Pierce started OpenCarry.org to push for the right to carry guns openly. The Web site now has about 10,000 registered members, said Stollenwerk, a retired Army lieutenant colonel. Stollenwerk and Pierce determined that at least six states ban openly carrying a gun: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina and New York. This movement includes only handguns, which Stollenwerk calls "the quintessential self-defense weapon.” The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence lists gun laws of each state. But Chad Ramsey, a senior associate director of the Brady Group, said it is difficult to determine which states allow open carry. But Ramsey said Stollenwerk appears to be correct about the six states that ban openly carrying firearms. Law enforcement objections Officials with two Oklahoma law enforcement associations said they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns. "I would guess that very few would want to go back to the early west appearance where people carried guns strapped down on their hip,” said Ken McNair, a retired police officer and executive director of the Oklahoma Sheriffs’ Association. Jim Cox, executive director of the Oklahoma Association of Chiefs of Police, said he doesn’t think that openly carrying a gun accomplishes very much. A concealed weapon gives a person the element of surprise, he said. "The bad guys aren’t going to be openly carrying,” said Cox, a former police officer and police chief in Midwest City. Right to choose Stollenwerk said he thinks that letting people carry guns openly will let someone with bad intentions know that you are armed. "While I understand that sometimes it is a tactical advantage to be concealed, sometimes it might be the other way,” he said. "Everybody should have the right to choose.” Last edited on Mon Oct 20th, 2008 03:38 pm by Mike |
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Doug Huffman Regular Member 
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Stollenwerk said he thinks that letting people carry guns openly will let someone with bad intentions know that you are armed. The advantage to concealed carry may be tactical. The advantage to open carry is strategic! |
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HankT State Researcher 
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Doug Huffman wrote: Stollenwerk said he thinks that letting people carry guns openly will let someone with bad intentions know that you are armed. Nah, both CC and OC are tactical level concepts. Carry is the strategic context. |
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Legba Regular Member
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I can tell you that OCing in a place of business gives a clear psychological "we will not submit" message to people contemplating robbery or other mayhem. That and it improves my response time having it "at the ready" (my favorite phrase from the old Ohio carry/transport law) if it does come to that. We've had zero problems at the shop since I've been here, and I don't have a permit. So, I, for one, am not automatically sold on this supposed "tactical advantage" of concealed carry. It depends on the situation. -ljp Last edited on Mon Oct 20th, 2008 03:50 pm by Legba |
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darthmord Regular Member 
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As I've told supporters of OC and CC... which one I use depends on the circumstances in question. There is no "one answer to rule them all" when it comes to carrying... except perhaps actually carrying.  |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member 
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To OC or CC: Weather is my primary consideration - not whether or not. Yata hey |
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ClevelandCarry Activist Member
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What a pleasant surprise to open the Daily Oklahoman and see an Open Carry article headlining. Went to this website, and very quickly found the link to the petition. |
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Donaldo Regular Member
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Just to set the record straight. I did tell the reports that Russell Cook Is the one that started the petition and when I seen that there was petition I email Mr. Cook and asked what I could do to help and he state that I could just starting to get the word out. And after about sending over 100 email we got a bite. The Oklahoman Called me and asked Who, Why, When, How type of stuff then. I just want to make it clear that Russell Cook Started the petition and hat I signed it and asked how I could help. |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Donaldo wrote: Just to set the record straight. I did tell the reports that Russell Cook Is the one that started the petition and when I seen that there was petition I email Mr. Cook and asked what I could do to help and he state that I could just starting to get the word out. And after about sending over 100 email we got a bite. Thanks, great work - it takes more than one "Joe the Gun Owner" to get these shows on the road! |
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deepdiver Activist Member 
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It is sad to once again see the leaders of large LEO organizations leading the opposition to some form of citizen carry.  |
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russcook Regular Member
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Donaldo wrote: Just to set the record straight. I did tell the reports that Russell Cook Is the one that started the petition and when I seen that there was petition I email Mr. Cook and asked what I could do to help and he state that I could just starting to get the word out. And after about sending over 100 email we got a bite. Great job! Thanks for the help! I sent out dozens of emails to tv, radio, and newspapers around the state, and zero response. You're getting results! Got any friends? |
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JSK333 Regular Member
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deepdiver wrote: It is sad to once again see the leaders of large LEO organizations leading the opposition to some form of citizen carry. On the bright side, consider that they did this in large part when concealed carry was gaining momentum. Now look at how they talk about concealed carry. The LEO in the article recognizes it as both lawful and beneficial for citizens. In time, I think they will come to see open carry in the same way, once it becomes more common and less other-worldly. |
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deepdiver Activist Member
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JSK333 wrote: deepdiver wrote:That is an excellent point. That is what we heard from LEO leadership most places when CC started gaining momentum as a movement state to state. However, what we found out also was that while the LEO brass was bad mouthing CC, the majority of the LEOs on the street most places were pro citizen CC. I have yet to see any polling or research data as to street LEOs opinion on OC. I suspect that it is not as positive as it was for CC but I hope I am wrong.It is sad to once again see the leaders of large LEO organizations leading the opposition to some form of citizen carry. |
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3/325 Regular Member 
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The discussion should never be "OC vs CC"; it should always be "Right Upheld vs Right Denied". I don't care how anyone else carries, as long as he or she is willing and prepared to use it in a lawful and responsible manner. |
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Donaldo Regular Member
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KSBI channel 52 at 5 |
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Mike Super Moderator
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Donaldo wrote: KSBI channel 52 at 5 Get video link or utube it. |
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Donaldo Regular Member
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News Story.... Video will also will be on youtube soon She did say opencarry.org at the end but it got cut off there at the end.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nygv2mVtEMM http://www.okcfox.com/players/news/top_stories/kokh_vid_1648.shtml Last edited on Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 05:22 am by Donaldo |
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Mike Super Moderator
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http://www.ksbitv.com/home/32493244.html. |
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XD-GEM Activist Member 
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Story Mike linked above: Openly Carrying Guns In Public Debate Donald Ohse has a vision. He says, "Currently, we have 1,970 signatures. My personal goal is at least 5,000 signatures." The Midwest City man is working to gather signatures for a petition to present to lawmakers. "I want a choice to either be able to have it out in the open or have it concealed," says Ohse. Jim Cox is with the Oklahoma Association of Chiefs of Police. Cox says, "No, I don't think it's a good idea." He believes carrying weapons openly could be dangerous. "If I know that you have it, you have no advantage over me," says Cox. "I have that advantage." He's worried it's those criminals who would try to take advantage. He says, "The main thing is consider those circumstances." Meanwhile, it's something Ohse says he has considered especially since he has a 4-year-old daughter. Ohse says, "I want people to know that most criminals aren't going to have a weapon out in the open because they don't want to draw attention to themselves." He admits there are benefits to both. But he still believes, those who carry guns should ultimately have the choice. "I feel it's a right that we have and if you don't exercise your rights, you're bound to lose them," says Ohse. There is also a web site that's pushing for the right to carry guns in public. It's called http://www.opencarry.org. On the web site, there is a link to the petition. It's located at http://www.petitiononline.com/oc4ok/petition.html. As for Jim Cox, he just wants to stress to people keep in mind the possible ramifications. My favorite line:
This is, of course, why police officers always open carry on duty. They are charitably giving the advantage to the criminal element. How noble! |
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deepdiver Activist Member
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When these LEO brass who oppose citizen OC call for a state law requiring all LEOs, on and off duty to carry CC 100% of the time THEN I'll buy their arguments against citizen OC. ETA: spelling correction Last edited on Fri Oct 24th, 2008 02:16 am by deepdiver |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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deepdiver wrote: When these LEO brass who oppose citizen OC call for a state law requiring all LEOs, on and off duty to carry CC 100% of the time THEN I'll buy their arguments against citizen OC. Would not buy into it even in that unlikely event. Yata hey |
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Superlite27 Regular Member 
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Officials with two Oklahoma law enforcement associations said they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns. The irony of a quote stating "they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns" coming from people openly carrying guns. Oh, it's a good thing.......for me. NOT YOU. |
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FreedomJoyAdventure Regular Member 
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Superlite27 wrote: Officials with two Oklahoma law enforcement associations said they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns. ZACTLY. They're the Only Ones in the room professional enough... |
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ixtow Founder's Club Member
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Mike wrote: While I understand that sometimes it is a tactical advantage to be concealed, sometimes it might be the other way,” he said. "Everybody should have the right to choose. I find it a little disturbing that people advocating self-defense also often include 'the element of surprise' in their arguments. What's so self-defense about an ambush? 'The element of surprise' serves no purpose in prevention. Am I sneaking up on people? No, the BGs are the ones doing that. I want to look like an unapealing target. Concealing doesn't do that. [/soapbox] |
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JoeSparky Centurion Member 
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ixtow wrote: Mike wrote:Wish I had said it .... Good Job!!!!While I understand that sometimes it is a tactical advantage to be concealed, sometimes it might be the other way,” he said. "Everybody should have the right to choose. JoeSparky |
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Donaldo Regular Member
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Just FYI... In the Fox 25 Video Miles Hall Owner of H&H Gun Range ALLOWS his employees to OPEN CARRY in the store. If he was true to his word he should make all his employees conceal their hand guns. |
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dlofton Regular Member 
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Having been a LEO for 15 years, what I am about to tell you comes from my own personal real life experience, not just what my instructors in the police academy told me. It is important for the people here to fully appreciate the training processes and the beliefs that instilled in LEO over time. Peace officers are not any different than anyone else. They want to go to work, do a good job, collect a paycheck, and at the end of the day go home to their spouse, kiss the kids, kick the dog, have a cold beer and go to bed. Their job is no different than working at the factory or a hospital or the military. But the training they receive is vastly different than most other professions. The training involves been keenly aware of what is going on around them from a perspective of "it is always better to be judged by twelve than carried by six". This perspective is taught to us on a daily basis. Do whatever you have to do to go home safely to your family because that is how we judge a successful day. It is not about how may people get arrested or how many tickets we write. It is about doing the same thing ever day at the end of the shift...go home alive. Now, as to how the above paragraph fits into open carrying of firearms. Peace officers are taught from day one at the academy that the person who has the potential to exact the most amount of danger is the person we want to deal with first. This person is the one who has the "proximate capacity" to do the most damage at any one time. A person who has a fireman on their person is the one who our training tells us is the one we should deal with first. To most people on this board this would seem to say that anyone who has a gun displayed openly on their hip, whether or not it is lawfully carried, is target of police. The reality is that this is mostly true. No one left on planet Earth is alive today from the Old West where firearms were only worn without issue. Because of this and the training they receive at the academy, firearms set off some type of alert in our minds as to a perceived danger. I know people view this as unfair when people are openly carrying firearms but it is just a reality that one must face. Most of traditional America is not used to people openly carrying arms. I know this is a hard pill to swallow but it is just true. I personally do not carry my firearm openly when I am off duty. I don't want to tip my hand so to speak. Something I learned in my military days is not to show your cards. Keep your abilities and mission secret and don't tip off the enemy. It is how you carry yourself you day to day life that makes you a sheep or a wolf...not how you carry your weapon. It is about a mindset, not what you are carrying. David |
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ixtow Founder's Club Member
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dlofton wrote: Now, as to how the above paragraph fits into open carrying of firearms. Peace officers are taught from day one at the academy that the person who has the potential to exact the most amount of danger is the person we want to deal with first. This person is the one who has the "proximate capacity" to do the most damage at any one time. A person who has a fireman on their person is the one who our training tells us is the one we should deal with first. To most people on this board this would seem to say that anyone who has a gun displayed openly on their hip, whether or not it is lawfully carried, is target of police. The reality is that this is mostly true. No one left on planet Earth is alive today from the Old West where firearms were only worn without issue. Because of this and the training they receive at the academy, firearms set off some type of alert in our minds as to a perceived danger. I know people view this as unfair when people are openly carrying firearms but it is just a reality that one must face. Most of traditional America is not used to people openly carrying arms. I know this is a hard pill to swallow but it is just true. By this capacity, what 'threat level' am I for knowing how to build a nuclear weapon? We have no trouble swallowing this pill. Several people here have experienced it first-hand. It is the prejudice, hate, and ignorange that you've described, which we are attempting to eliminate. Just because it is incommon, does not make it a bad thing. One who 'bears the capacity' is NOT an actual threat. YOU carry a weapon when on duty. It doesn't make you a threat. The badge or the uniform don't make you into a magically different person, you've described that yourself already. Having been through the Police Academy myself, I know there really isn't a lot of 'training' with firearms. Most people here have an absolutely HUGE 'advantage' over the people I was in class with, when it comes to demeanor, attitude, and actually hitting what they aim at if/when they need to. The majority of what I experienced at the Academy was just a repeated expresion of hate for the Bill of Rights and an encouragement to be a bully and get away with anything you can. That's why I left, and why I have no interest in being a 'peace officer.' In an actual crime/tactical situation, you'd be right. But some guy strolling through the mall does not need 'to be dealt with first' because he's not doing anything wrong. In a circumstance where there is no crime, there is no determinable threat either. I 'bear the capacity' to drive my car through a bunch of kids at a bus stop. That certainly wouldn't be 'normal' behavior either. But you can't tell what I might do just by my possession of a car. My intentions are as concealed as your CCW, even if the tool is not. The whole point is that the perception of 'danger' by the mere presence of an object is ignorant prejudice. Just because the car is 'normal' does not negate it's deadly possibilities, nor convince one of imminent danger. Why the hate for guns? It's absolutely no different. The more common OC becomes, the less effective the propaganda-deriven prejudice against it will become. Maybe, someday, people will see how ridiculous it really is to act like cars aren't a threat, but a gun is. |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member
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dlofton wrote:
Yes they are different - IMO by statute priviledge and authority and must be held to a higher standard. America is not used to people openly carrying arms. That is precisely one of the reasons we are involved here - education and acceptance. BTW - Do you only CC when off duty by choice or by departmental SOP? Are you trained to so react to a situation of a person peaceably carrying a knife, baseball bat or can of gasoline? I fully appreciate the dangers and problems faced by LEOs but cannot condone or defend "preemptive" reaction to non-threatening, legal practices. Yata hey |
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lockman State Researcher 
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dlofton wrote: Having been a LEO for 15 years, what I am about to tell you comes from my own personal real life experience, not just what my instructors in the police academy told me. I've heard the line, "because I can't carry a cop", but a fireman would be even heavier with all their equipment.  Sorry I just could not resist that one. Typos do bring needed humor.  |
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LovesHisXD45 Regular Member 
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Here is the contact info for the department where Jim Cox worked if anyone here wants to voice their concern about the police position on OC in Oklahoma as well. Oklahoma Association of Chiefs of Police E-mail: tammy@okla-chiefs.org 3701 SE 15th Street Del City, OK 73115 (405) 672-1225/(888) 528-6227/Fax: (405) 670-8763 |
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dlofton Regular Member
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Please don't get me wrong. I am no against OC at all. I just don't do it myself when I am off duty. Not a requirement for my department to be armed or not off duty. Look, it is never what tools you have with you that makes you a sheep or a wolf. It is how you carry yourself. For those of you in here that have military training...no, not the basic training security training...I am talking about ATFP Level 2 or higher, you probably know what I am saying. Simply carrying your weapon openly for all the world to see will not make you any safer. It is a mindset of being a wolf that makes the wolf. As far as the gentlemen that responded to me that the only thing he learned in the Academy was how to stomp on the Bill of Rights and the Constitution...I have seen what you are talking about. I don't condone it and am sad that there are other peace officers out there that have this mentality. But I am not one of them and am for one personally offended whenever I am compared to those type of people. Really and truly, LEO are just the same as everyone else. They either take their jobs seriously and and honestly try and be professional or the choose to do otherwise and act like idiots. The reality is that those that have the predisposition to do the otherwise would probably act that way no matter what job they perform. |
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dlofton Regular Member
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Peace officers are not any different than anyone else. Yes they are different - IMO by statute priviledge and authority and must be held to a higher standard. America is not used to people openly carrying arms. That is precisely one of the reasons we are involved here - education and acceptance. BTW - Do you only CC when off duty by choice or by departmental SOP? Are you trained to so react to a situation of a person peaceably carrying a knife, baseball bat or can of gasoline? I fully appreciate the dangers and problems faced by LEOs but cannot condone or defend "preemptive" reaction to non-threatening, legal practices. Yata hey Yes, I am trained to deal with someone carrying a can a gasoline. You should stop and give them a lift to the closest gas station when you pick them up on the side of the road. This way you can help them with their car that ran out of gas. :-) It is the polite thing to do. As far as them carrying a baseball bat, my 13 year old son carries his just about everywhere because he has practice everyday. How I react to this situation usually involves me having to pay upwards of $300 for said bad. |
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ixtow Founder's Club Member
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dlofton wrote: But I am not one of them and am for one personally offended whenever I am compared to those type of people. Other LEOs here have been far less patriotic, to put it nicely. I've learned to use a bigger magnifying glass on LEOs. Not comparing you, just seeing what you're made of. |
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dlofton Regular Member
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Don't worry, Ixtow, I have learned to use a bigger magnifying glass on ants. The larger the magnification the faster they fry. Actually, for the most part I hate the govenment. I don't like having to fill out a 4473 for permission to own something that the Bill of Rights says I am automatically qualified to do in the first place. For me, if we did away with most of the government is would probably be a good thing. I especially hate the fact that I actually have to go to court and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the people I arrest are guilty of the crime charged. We have to wait around the courthouse all day to testify for 15 minutes about how the suspect volutarily gave me permission to seach his car when I actually just went ahead and used my nighstick to beat it out of him.  In fact, why not just do what they used to do at Auschwitz? Clearly this would be a better use of our tax monies.As for what I am made of....mostly bull @#$%. I am sure my wife would agree. David |
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LovesHisXD45 Regular Member
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Just out of curiosity, have there been any credible scientific studies conducted that show evidence that the ordinary petty criminal, which make up the highest percent of aggressors in this country, will target or engage an armed citizen with a sidearm attached to their hip? I'm getting really tired of all the nay-sayers against open carry toting the notion that the bad guys will go for your gun or take you out first in the commission of a violent crime if you are openly carrying a pistol without scientific proof that this is a rampant problem and/or is the mindset of most of these criminal elements. Show me some hard evidence. Don't use any military applications either. This isn't Iraq or some 3rd world country. From the stats I've been able to dig up, there is significant evidence that shows criminals are terrified of armed citizens because they believe that an armed civilian is more likely to engage and shoot them if they attempt to commit a crime. Kevin Here is an example of some good study with all the footnotes and sources of info to back it up. Also, a link to a good video. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLuTjguJA Last edited on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 07:23 pm by LovesHisXD45 |
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LovesHisXD45 Regular Member
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That's right... I didn't think so. |
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KansasMustang Regular Member 
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Just me sayin it,,but it's BEAR Arms not BARE arms,,one is to hold em, the other means to expose, em...LOL |
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LovesHisXD45 Regular Member
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KansasMustang wrote: Just me sayin it,,but it's BEAR Arms not BARE arms,,one is to hold em, the other means to expose, em...LOLWhich post are your replying to? Your comment has no relevance to the last one posted. Kevin |
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KBCraig Regular Member
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KansasMustang wrote: Just me sayin it,,but it's BEAR Arms not BARE arms,,one is to hold em, the other means to expose, em...LOL This site is all about bearing bare arms.  |
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Gator5713 Lone Star Veteran
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To 'dlofton': Of course you don't carry open (OC) when off duty, that would be a violation of Texas Law, would it not? As for your personal character, I cannot and will not comment, but I do know the reputation of the Shertz PD..... I hope that you are not the norm there. (Selma, and Converse as well...) As to the comment about threat level, I do not see how more officers would not support OC over CC. If you know that I have a gun I am less of a threat. The criminals aren't going to want you to know that they have a gun until they are ready to use it! |
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dlofton Regular Member
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Actually, No, It would not be a violation of Texas law for me to open carry off duty, I just don't do it. one of the things that it took me quite a while to learn about being a police officer is the same thing that I learned as a captain in the Air Force....if you go looking for trouble you are going to find it! I say this because that is what I would be doing. It is different for a police officer to open carry off duty than a regular citizen. This is because if I open carry off duty (which is not a violation) then I will have to wear my badge openly with it. This would tell the entire world that I am a licensed Texas peace officer, which is the very last thing that I want to let the world know when I am off duty, because then if a violation of the law happens in my presence then I would be expected by a citizen to take action. For rookies on the police force this may sound exciting to them....but not for me, I am too old to play cops and robbers when off duty and trying to spend some quality time with my family. I don't delve into the idea that police officers should take action of any violation of the law not matter what, no matter when. When off duty I act as such. This is because it is simply too much of a pain in the ass to do all the paperwork and other such things that come with making an arrest off duty. Yes, I CAN do it...no, it ain't gonna happen unless it is a violation that is a significant felony in which the public is in immediate danger (armed robbery, bank robbery, homicide, etc). As for the Schertz PD...where did that come from? I do not work for them. I work part time for the Guadalupe County Constable Office. In the county (where constables work under the Texas constitution) we do things a little differently than most places. We tend to take things much more laissez faire. In fact, AND I SWEAR THIS TO BE TRUE, I have not wrote a traffic ticket in at least five years. Constables are fullly empowered LEOs under the Texas constitution, but we are mostly centered under serving warrants for the county and writs for the justice courts. Ticket writing is just not something that I have the time nor the inclination to do. There are far too many cats in trees for me to shoot down than to run radar on I-35. As for the rest of the board...as hard as this may be for most people (ME INCLUDED)...try not to judge the whole entire peace officer force on the actions of some simple minded individuals. 99% of LEOs are just like everyone else on planet Earth. They get up on the morning, put on their pants and shirt, brush their teeth and head out into the day to make a living. It really is no different than any other job. You perform a function and go home. Not a big deal. David |
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dlofton Regular Member
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You wrote, "As to the comment about threat level, I do not see how more officers would not support OC over CC. If you know that I have a gun I am less of a threat. The criminals aren't going to want you to know that they have a gun until they are ready to use it!" There is a simply answer to this statement...it is called tipping you hand. police officer shouldn't do it and neither should the public. If have a weapon on you that is concealed and you are properly trained on how to access and use it (like I suspect most people on this board are) then you are a help to law enforcement. This is what peace officers want. We want people that are trained to use force to help defend others that may not be able to defend themselves. Just don't tip you hand on what your "potential" capabilities are. When you open carry (off duty peace officer or everyday average citizen) then you are tipping you hand. This is not the way a smart "tactical" carrying person with a weapon is supposed to act. A tactical person surveys their surroundings, looks at the threats, judges potential benefits and drawbacks from courses of actions, and then takes action based on what is the largest chance of success. The US Marines have a saying that fits along perfectly with this..."Have a plan to kill everyone you meet". When you open carry you are are giving away your plan to others. The others are then able to identify that you are the first person to take out in their plan on how they are going to kill everyone they meet. David |
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dlofton Regular Member
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You wrote, "The criminals aren't going to want you to know that they have a gun until they are ready to use it!" This is a true statment most of the time. The criminals are not going to want to give away that they have a gun until they are ready to use said gun. But neither are smart off duty LEOs. I damn sure am not going to go to the shopping mall with my kids while off duty with my firearm strapped outside for all the world to see. I want to be as innoccuous as humanly posslble. I want the potential to criminal to see me as a sheep when in reality I am a wolf that is capable of striking at my time and choosing. This is what is the potential negative of open carry. You are identifying yourself as a wolf from the onset. A real wolf can act like a wolf and not tip their hand. A real sheep cannot never be a wolf...firearm strapped to their side OC or CC. David |
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Gator5713 Lone Star Veteran
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Guadalupe County Constables Office!? You just automatically earned some extra respect! Along with Comal county and a good handfull of others around there... Your 'Location' is 'Sherts' and I do truly apologize for my mistake, but you had not identified.... For Reference.... I grew up in Bulverde and recently lived in Converse for a little over a year, thus my knowledge of local departments reputations... County has always had more respect from me as they seem to (for the most part) care more about what the law is and upholding it as opposed to harrassing citizens.... That and having lived out in the country most of my life; the only law arond was Sherriff/Constable/Game Warden... By openly wearing a badge, you are effectively no longer "Off Duty" so I will stand by my original statement regarding that... The likelihood of me being in a situation where I become 'first target' is a whole lot less than the likelihood that the simple presence of a gun on my hip will deter a crime from ever happening! I consider it a proactive stance on crime and therefore a viable defensive choice. Why do LEOs wear uniforms and openly wear their firearms? As a DETERRENT! I respect your personal choice of how you choose to carry when off duty, however I disagree with your reasonings.... A conversation with a friends kid when we were met with a particularly unfriendly varmint one evening: Me: Hand me a gun" Kid: Which one? Me: One with bullets in it!  |
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