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murphyslaw State Researcher 
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This information is spread out threw all the different threads in our section. Lets get it all in one place. As you post up please keep it short. Give us Name of the business Approx date of last visit with incident who you dealt with Hopefully we can get a list going to avoid such businesses and put some pressure on them as well. Car Care Center on muldoon. June 12th '07 Unknown person |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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I am the one that dealt with Car Care Center on Muldoon. The guy's name was Brad. I had to help my Mother take her car down there, and I decided to open carry in spite of my Mom's strong anti-gun views, because it was so warm. We got there, and went into the office. I saw him look at me, and then my sidearm which was properly holstered. He didn't say anything directly to me about it, but called my Mother when we got home. He told her that it was illegal to carry the way I did, and next time I walked in there like that, he would call the police. I ended up writing them a nice letter letting them know that open carry was in fact legal, and that they will not be getting my business ever again for threatening to call the cops, because I was doing something lawful. I also had a negative incident at the mid-town Wal Mart, but was resolved with the store manager. Last edited on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 02:53 am by spyderdude |
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insane.kangaroo Regular Member 
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Did you call him to inform the guy he is incorrect and open carry is completely legal? I'll educate the person if you have not.  |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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I wrote them a letter, and provided a copy of Alaska's carry laws. |
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insane.kangaroo Regular Member
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did they reply? I just want to make sure they're really anti and don't want any gun owner's business. |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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They have several American Rifleman magazines in the lobby, so that leads me to believe they're not entirely anti-gun, they just believe that open carry is illegal. In fact the magazines were addressed to the very guy that called my Mother about me open carrying. |
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akhunter3 Regular Member 
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The fellow in Ammo King on Boniface isn't very friendly about OC. He has a whole dialogue written up about how it is/was illegal. I've also heard the guy has worked people over on several gun orders, so he might just be one of those  Jon |
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insane.kangaroo Regular Member
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I called the Car Care center on Muldoon and spoke with Brad. He stated the person in question was acting irresponsible in person being a show off with his firearm and constantly touching said firearm, which was the reason behind the negative response. He himself conceals and does even have an Alaska CCW(even though they're not needed here) I must reiterate my stance on people open carrying... don't act like a emo when you carry a firearm. It's rude, impolite, and you're not setting a good example for the rest of us. Personally, I open carry everywhere I go in a nice retention holster. At most in touching my gun, I'm setting my arm on the top of my holster. I don't wear clothes with logos, and keep shoe logos to a minimal without having to wear military boots. I suggest people to do the same, keep a good attitude, and *gasp* smile. |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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I never once touched my handgun. A guy sitting in the lobby was wearing a hat with a Glock logo on it, and I simply complimented him on it. I honestly don't see how that is being irresponsible. I wasn't trying to show off my gun (which happened to be a Glock). it was rather warm that day, and I didn't feel like covering up my pistol. He called my Mother, told her it was ILLEGAL to open carry, and next time I come in there like that, he's going to call the police. Last edited on Fri Jan 9th, 2009 01:15 am by spyderdude |
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insane.kangaroo Regular Member
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He was under the presumption from when I was speaking to him no firearm signs or business policies made it illegal. He should've asked you to leave but did not. |
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murphyslaw State Researcher
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So they have a no firearms sign? |
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insane.kangaroo Regular Member
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you probably want to call to clarify for yourself, he was heated when I mentioned said person. Brad seems to carry concealed, and the incident was about specific person. |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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That is fine that he carries concealed, but he should learn the laws before he threatens to call the police. I just will not do business with CCC anymore. I have OCd in other car repair shops, nothing was said. Unfortunately OC is so uncommon, its not surprising that people would call the police at the sight of someone OCing a firearm, but no badge. |
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insane.kangaroo Regular Member
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He said to me you are a person who shouldn't carry a gun, he didn't specify open or concealed. |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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Well he is entitled to his opinion, but like all law abiding people, I have a right to protect myself and the people I care about. If Brad does not want me to come in there with a gun, open or concealed, then he just won't get my business. I rest my case, end of discussion. Next anti business please! |
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insane.kangaroo Regular Member
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Next? I'm still waiting on the first. |
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Flintlock Regular Member 
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insane.kangaroo wrote: He said to me you are a person who shouldn't carry a gun, he didn't specify open or concealed. Well, thank goodness it is not up to individual citizens to determine whether or not "certain" people may, or should carry firearms. If that were the case, we would all be in trouble because of the anti-gun sentiment that the media, laws, and political figures that have indoctrinated our society have created. Quite frankly, I will be taking the side of the open carrier in question over the over-zelous business owner. Way too many times in my life have I seen people in a work place environment utter their complete ignorance and personal anti-gun feelings on the topics of gun ownership and carrying in general. Sounds to me that the guy has egg on his face and he is trying to put himself into a good light. I have never seen an open carrier mishandle themselves in public in my life. I would assume those occurances would be a rare event indeed. I have also seen business managers and owners all of a sudden become lawyers and firearm law experts right before my eyes when they have not a clue at all. I have no reason to distrust Spyderdude in this case and it is also possible that the business guy has mixed up this case with another carrier as this was a while ago. |
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Flintlock Regular Member
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I have begun my spring writing campaign and sent the 5th Avenue Mall an e-mail about their no firearms sign at the building entrance. I will post their response, if any. I was polite but detailed. Any other businesses or malls that can be written or called? I haven't seen any recently. Last edited on Mon May 11th, 2009 06:35 pm by Flintlock |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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You can try calling the Northway Mall. They have a list of rules right at one of the front entrances and I think its the 6th rule down on the list that prohibits the possession of weapons on the property. I haven't seen any posted signs at Dimond Mall, but at least they have armed security. |
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Flintlock Regular Member
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spyderdude wrote: You can try calling the Northway Mall. They have a list of rules right at one of the front entrances and I think its the 6th rule down on the list that prohibits the possession of weapons on the property. I haven't seen any posted signs at Dimond Mall, but at least they have armed security. I might do that, but I would like to get the exact wording before I send anything. You are right, at Diamond, they have armed security. Do you know anything about the security company at 5th Avenue? They are unarmed but carry cuffs. I found that very interesting because they have no arrest powers and cannot detain citizens against their will. |
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murphyslaw State Researcher
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Flintlock wrote: spyderdude wrote:You can try calling the Northway Mall. They have a list of rules right at one of the front entrances and I think its the 6th rule down on the list that prohibits the possession of weapons on the property. I haven't seen any posted signs at Dimond Mall, but at least they have armed security. Ever hear of a Citizens arrest. Any citizen can make an arrest under specified circumstances. 5th ave, uses guardian. |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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Security officers have the same powers of arrest as a private citizen. You cannot place someone under citizen's arrest unless you know beyond a reasonable doubt that the person you are accusing of a crime, has in fact committed a crime. I never understood why they have security officers carrying handcuffs but no taser, gun, or any type of tool to aid in compliance of a suspect. Maybe they carry pepper spray, I don't know. |
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Flintlock Regular Member
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murphyslaw wrote: Flintlock wrote:spyderdude wrote:You can try calling the Northway Mall. They have a list of rules right at one of the front entrances and I think its the 6th rule down on the list that prohibits the possession of weapons on the property. I haven't seen any posted signs at Dimond Mall, but at least they have armed security. Actually, I am very aware of citizen's arrests, but that doesn't answer my question. It is legally questionable whether or not I could use my cuffs on a burglar to hold them for police in my own house. I have read accounts of issues related to this in some other states over the years. That being said, It would certainly be questionable to me to witness a security company officer cuff and detain alledged criminals for the police as well. Do they even train on the usage of cuffing and the techniques involved? Do they train in civil law and have a code of conduct? What is the Use of Force policy? Are they sworn protectors of the public, therefore answering and employed by the public? My feeling without any exact knowledge of the companies themselves is that training is probably extremely limited and they don't answer to the public. Is "citizens arrest" the justification or is there a specific statute that plays a role here? I am looking for the relavent statutes. |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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I know with Guardian you cannot carry handcuffs unless your assigned post allows or requires it. I am sure training within the security field is minimal because the job of a security officer is to observe and report, not apprehend suspects. This is why so many guard companies are going unarmed probably due to liability issues. Many people get the wrong idea that security officers have the same powers as law enforcement and that is just not true. I've been trying to find the statutes myself regarding security officers, but haven't found them yet. |
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murphyslaw State Researcher
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At my company we are allowed to carry cuffs if, 1) The client(s) request that we have them 2) We have been trained in handcuffing 3) We have been threw the class, regarding the law and company/client policy Most of our Armed Officers dont even carry cuffs. I how ever do, but I can not think of a situation that I would be trying to cuff someone by myself(and I"m prior LEO) as a Security Officer. I would prefer to keep a safe distance(~21ft) and wait for help/LEO's |
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Flintlock Regular Member
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murphyslaw wrote: At my company we are allowed to carry cuffs if, That is somewhat reassuring.. Thanks for the information. Note: I have not received a response from them yet and frankly, I don't imagine that I ever will. That would be kinda sad as you would think they would be able to justify their ridiculous policies if they were worth having in the first place... |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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In the Alabama section there is a topic about Golden Corral. They apparently have a policy against carrying weapons. I don't know if our local GC is corporate or a private franchise. I've never had any negative responses while OCing there, but just thought I would bring this up. |
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Baradium Regular Member
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insane.kangaroo wrote: He was under the presumption from when I was speaking to him no firearm signs or business policies made it illegal. He should've asked you to leave but did not. There are specific requirements on what the signage must be. The buisiness cannot just have a policy and expect that firearms are illegal if he does not meet the signage requirements. He can ask someone to leave, but he is legally required to post appropriate signage if he actually wants to forbid firearms. Something in his policy book behind the counter doesn't cut it. However, once you're asked to leave, that does mean that you must leave. I don't know if it's considered permanent for you as a person or not. spyderdude wrote: You can try calling the Northway Mall. They have a list of rules right at one of the front entrances and I think its the 6th rule down on the list that prohibits the possession of weapons on the property. I haven't seen any posted signs at Dimond Mall, but at least they have armed security. See above, it seems that a lot of places with corporate signage such as this sound like do NOT meet the legal requirement to forbid firearms. A bullet in a list in a 12 pt font doesn't meet it. I don't have the law handy, but want to say it was something like 1" letters and a specific sign for the firearms. I believe it also doesn't allow them to differentiate concealed vs open carry. Anyone feel like looking it up? That said, I'd venture that if you oc'd in a place with a bullet list such as that, they'd likely be asking you to leave if they noticed you. At that point, it's a fairly moot point on whether the list is legal notice or not. Last edited on Fri May 22nd, 2009 10:23 pm by Baradium |
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FarNorth Regular Member
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Village Inn on Latouche behind the Fred Meyers at Northern Lights and Old Seward (Anchorage) has a "NO WEAPONS" sign on their door. Never confronted the manager about it, just stopped spending my money there. Not sure if all Village Inn's are the same. Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 07:23 pm by FarNorth |
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FarNorth Regular Member
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Also wanted to add that the Daily News has an official looking sign in their entrance stating something about no weapons and also lists two Alaska statutes. AS14.40.170 and AS11.71.900. I went to the state web site to look them up but was having trouble finding anything about guns in the statutes they posted. I didn't spend much time on it and may have been looking at the wrong statutes. If anyone can provide more info it would be appreciated. Thanks... |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher 
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The Daily News is owned by McClatchey. I am a contractor for two McClatchey papers. Guns are a no-no for contractors and employees, so I'm sure they extend that to visitors as well. |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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sv_libertarian wrote: The Daily News is owned by McClatchey. I am a contractor for two McClatchey papers. Guns are a no-no for contractors and employees, so I'm sure they extend that to visitors as well.The fact that ADN is a media source, it explains it all. |
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FarNorth Regular Member
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spyderdude wrote: sv_libertarian wrote:The Daily News is owned by McClatchey. I am a contractor for two McClatchey papers. Guns are a no-no for contractors and employees, so I'm sure they extend that to visitors as well.The fact that ADN is a media source, it explains it all. No,, I wasn't surprised at all about the ADN. I don't buy their rag anyway. I did find it amusing that they have a very large sign showing the first amendment, I mentioned to someone there that they really need to post the second amendment also because without it the other amendments really have nothing to back them up. They looked at me like I was a crazy man,, lol... |
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sv_libertarian State Researcher
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For each and everyone complaining about the ADN, just remember. Their existence means enough people are buying it, using it and supporting it, which means enough people accept what is put out. You cannot blame a business for selling a product people want. You don't like something they do or say tell them as much in an intelligent fashion. Enough people act they will listen. McClatchey is in California and they have California lawyers. What do you think those lawyers have told them about guns? I'd go to the parent company that makes the rules before I got upset over the individual products that have to abide by what the company says. |
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FarNorth Regular Member
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sv_libertarian wrote: For each and everyone complaining about the ADN, just remember. Their existence means enough people are buying it, using it and supporting it, which means enough people accept what is put out. You cannot blame a business for selling a product people want. You don't like something they do or say tell them as much in an intelligent fashion. Enough people act they will listen. you're correct... I quit buying the ADN years ago,, had nothing to do with guns though... |
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FarNorth Regular Member
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Another place is the Sullivan Arena, they have a sign up stating no weapons allowed. This is a muni owned facility. Why would it be any different then City Hall? I know SMG manages the building but they don't lease it. Any ideas? Thanks... |
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Flintlock Regular Member
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sv_libertarian wrote: For each and everyone complaining about the ADN, just remember. Their existence means enough people are buying it, using it and supporting it, which means enough people accept what is put out. You cannot blame a business for selling a product people want. You don't like something they do or say tell them as much in an intelligent fashion. Enough people act they will listen. There used to be some conservative competition here. I fondly remember the Anchorage Times and I still remember the horror I felt when they were swallowed up by the ADN (McClatchey) many years ago. |
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Flintlock Regular Member
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FarNorth wrote: Another place is the Sullivan Arena, they have a sign up stating no weapons allowed. This is a muni owned facility. Why would it be any different then City Hall? I know SMG manages the building but they don't lease it. Any ideas? I am not interested in being a test case and I am not a lawyer, but here is my take on it... The Loussac Library and the Sullivan Arena are owned by the Municipality. The no weapons signs were there long before Municipal Preemption was passed and in my opinion, those signs no longer apply. They are simply not allowed to enforce a restriction that is stronger than state law. It's the same as those old Palmer ordinances that are not legally justifiable but at the same time, they were just never cleaned up, causing confusion from some law enforcement. |
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spyderdude Regular Member
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Well I'm going to go ahead and say that Century 16 movie theater is an anti-carry establishment. Me and a friend decided to go catch Law Abiding Citizen at Century and we were OCing. We manage to purchase our tickets, walk past the huge crowd of people in line, and into the hallway where the individual theaters were located. All of a sudden we're approached by a man and a woman who say they were managers and informed us that we could not have our firearms in their theater. My friend told the male manager that he has open carried there many times in the past and had no problem but he got no response to that. They both seemed very nervous while interacting with us. We asked to see some sort of sign that showed proof of their policy, and for a full refund, we were escorted to the lobby and we recieved our refunds and were shown a sign that sits on the counter and at the very bottom it had their firearms policy. We remained calm and polite the entire time. Century 16 will no longer be getting my money until they change their firearms policy. We ended up going to Dimond Center theater and caught the late showing there with no further problems. |
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Alaskan Shooter Regular Member
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spyderdude wrote:sv_libertarian wrote:The Daily News is owned by McClatchey. I am a contractor for two McClatchey papers. Guns are a no-no for contractors and employees, so I'm sure they extend that to visitors as well.The fact that ADN is a media source, it explains it all. Not all media sources have a no firearms policy. The Fairbanks Daily News-Miner does not prohibit firearms inside the building. The publisher and management team are aware that open carry is legal. |
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Undertaker Regular Member 
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Alaska, please allow me to stick my nose into your state forum for a minute. We're having a few new 'out of state managers and corporations' at different places here in KY putting up their No Firearms Allowed signs on business doors. I ordered some small stickers that read Attention Criminals No One Here is Armed Or Protected. When I enter one of those business. I just give one to the manager and ask him/her to stick it under the NFA sign. They usually pop their eyes out. (Check it out on the KY site.) Thanks for letting me intrude. |
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