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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Maryland > Gun Owner = No Knock Warrant
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Maryland > Gun Owner = No Knock Warrant
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echo6tango Regular Member 
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So...being a lawful gun owner (a search of public Md Court records revealed no criminal record on the homeowner - http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiry-index.jsp) automatically equals justification for a no-knock warrant? Maryland residents cannot lawfully protect themselves while in public and it seems that lately, cannot protect themselves in their own home either? NOT a law enforcement bashing thread. Check my history on this site...I have never partaken in one of 'those' threads. But what the freaking hell is going on with this freaking State?! First the MAYOR of a town in PG County, then a man who simply purchased an amount of ammo for a handgun caliber that the police "did not have a record" of the man purchasing, and now this? Home invasions and burglaries are up in this area, so how the hell am I as an absolute law-abiding citizen supposed to know who is kicking down my freaking door? My first and foremost responsibility on this planet to protect and provide for my family...it seems the State believes this doesn't really fit into their bigger picture. As far as I know, in the State of Maryland, the only guns that are required to be “registered” are machine guns. All the guns on the Maryland “regulated firearms” list and all handguns require an application to be approved by the Maryland State Police before the gun may be turned over to the purchaser. These applications include the make/model/serial number of the gun. What happens to these applications once approved? Are they shredded? Are they kept for historical purposes? Is the information entered into a database? This info could easily be used to keep track of who has what without a “formal” registration process. So, unless this guy had a "machine gun" registered with the MSP, how did they know he had guns in his home? http://www.explorehoward.com/news/15341/home-raid-leads-complaint/ After a Howard County police raid on his house three weeks ago, Mike Hasenei says he has a sprained wrist, a dead dog, a bullet hole in his bed and a 12-year-old daughter who is scared every time she hears a knock on the door. Hasenei, 39, of the 6600 block of Deep Run Parkway, Elkridge, said he was sleeping shortly after 9 p.m. Jan. 15 when a police tactical team kicked in the door to his house. He woke up and walked into his living room to find it swarming with officers, he said. When he asked what was going on, he was ordered to get on the ground, and when he asked again, he said, he was knocked to the ground and told he was under arrest. Police then searched his house, looking for items stolen from two marked police cars that were reported broken into on Jan. 14 in the Elkridge community of Mayfield, according to Hasenei, who said he works as a computer analyst at Marriott International. During the raid, Hasenei said, police shot his Australian cattle dog, in his bedroom. Earlier that night, police also raided the nearby house of his stepson, Michael Leon Smith Jr., and turned up nothing, Hasenei said. Police spokeswoman Sherry Llewellyn confirmed the raid on Hasenei's house, noting that police had a search warrant signed by a judge. Llewellyn would not confirm whether the raid was related to the items stolen from police vehicles on Jan. 14, citing an ongoing investigation. No one was arrested in the raid, she said, and no arrests have been made relating to the thefts from the police cars, which she said police are still investigating. Llewellyn confirmed the dog shooting, but said the dog charged police, forcing them to shoot it. Police suspected guns Llewellyn said police had reason to believe a gun was in the residence, which was why they did not knock. A copy of the warrant provided by Hasenei listed items to be seized, including a Sig Sauer Rifle and three ammunition magazines for the rifle, as well as a police gear bag, county police field procedures manual and guide, and more police-related items. Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house. "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said. Llewellyn confirmed Hasenei filed a complaint about the incident with the Howard County Police Department and that police are investigating. She said no officers had been placed on any kind of administrative duty following the complaint. She declined to comment on whether any items were seized in the raid on Hasenei's house, citing an ongoing investigation. House damaged At Hasenei's house last week, the door to his daughter's room was off its hinges -- a result of the police raid, he said -- and Hasenei's hand was wrapped in a bandage because, he said, it was sprained when policed cuffed his hands too tightly. "They looked through everything," Hasenei said of the raid. "They didn't find a single thing. I knew they wouldn't because we don't commit crimes." What appeared to be a bullet hole was visible in a mattress in his bedroom, where, Hasenei said, police shot his dog, and a bloody sheet was stored in the front deck of his home. "They shot three times. Two hit the dog, one hit the bed," he said. When police raided his house, Hasenei said, they produced a search warrant relating to Hasenei's stepson. But Hasenei said Smith has not lived at the address for years. Smith, 20, also of Deep Run Parkway, said police also raided his house that night, but did not find anything. He said police also pushed him to the ground during the raid. "I stay in my house and keep to myself," Smith said. Smith said he does not have a driver's license. He said his state-issued identity card, however, lists his stepfather's address as his home. Llewellyn declined to comment on any raid on Smith's house, saying only that multiple warrants had been served that night. Hasenei said he has contacted a lawyer and plans to file a lawsuit. His lawyer did not return a call seeking comment. Police Chief William McMahon, through Llewellyn, declined to comment on the raid. AND: http://reason.com/blog/show/131514.html Police in Howard County, Maryland conducted a nighttime, no-knock raid on the home of Mike Hasenei, whom they apparently suspected of stealing items from two police cars burglarized last month. They found nothing, but they did shoot and kill Hasenei's Australian cattle dog. The police say the no-knock raid and tactical entry were necessary because Hasenei is a (legal) gun-owner. Police spokeswoman Sherry Llewellyn confirmed the raid on Hasenei's house, noting that police had a search warrant signed by a judge... Llewellyn confirmed the dog shooting, but said the dog charged police, forcing them to shoot it... Llewellyn said police had reason to believe a gun was in the residence, which was why they did not knock... Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house. "This often includes the use of the tactical team, which is specially trained to deal with potentially dangerous situations," she said. Sounds like they need more training. Hasenei, 39, of the 6600 block of Deep Run Parkway, Elkridge, said he was sleeping shortly after 9 p.m. Jan. 15 when a police tactical team kicked in the door to his house. He woke up and walked into his living room to find it swarming with officers, he said. When he asked what was going on, he was ordered to get on the ground, and when he asked again, he said, he was knocked to the ground and told he was under arrest. He wasn't arrested. So the police say they used a no-knock and a tactical team to secure the place quickly because they knew Hasenei was a gun owner. Yet Hasenei was able to get up from bed, walk out from his bedroom, and enter his living room before making his first contact with the tactical team. Which shows that all they really succeeded in doing was to provoke a potentially violent confrontation with a guy who at the moment looks to be innocent of any crime. It's a good thing he didn't grab one of his guns on his way out of the bedroom. |
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Anubis Regular Member 
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Because a resident of a targeted house owns a gun, they feel it's safest to kick in the door. So ludicrous because any targeted location could have armed people, legally or illegally. By their "logic", all search warrants should be no-knock. |
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GJD Regular Member
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frickin nuts |
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old dog Regular Member
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Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"? |
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Thundar Regular Member 
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old dog wrote: Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"? The citizens stand up for their rights. The JBTs oppress the citizens, the JBTs are labeled tyrants, and some patriot shoots them. |
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Citizen Founder's Club Member
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old dog wrote: Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"? Oh, no. According to LEO229, to most police its just a job. Which might explain the lax attitude some have about rights. "Its just a policy in our job. Everybody breaks and bends policies at work all the time." Last edited on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 05:25 am by Citizen |
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Task Force 16 Campaign Veteran
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old dog wrote: Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"? That's when things could get really ugly. I've been wondering about this myself. Do these LEA's not even consider the possibilty that the citizens might finally get fed up and conduct their own raid/assault against the LEA? |
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LEO 229 Regular Member 
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Citizen wrote: old dog wrote:Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"? Using my name to bolster your posts? old dog, From my personal and first hand experience, the police do NOT relish or desire any hatred they acquire from the public for the job they have to do. It is inevitable and it will happen no matter what you do. Some people will hate you for a variety of reasons. Most cops do not take on the job for the sake of longing to be hated. They join for all the right reasons. There may to be a few that do it for less than honorable reasons and they normally do not last very long. What happens when people say "Enough!" ?? I guess it depends on what is happening to them. If they are being attacked they fight back. If they are being mistreated I hope they make a complaint. I have known people to complain about getting a ticket and then admit to the violation! I guess they said "Enough!" in regards to getting stopped.  But to answer the question, No. Most cops do not want to be hated. It is just a job for most and that means they are there to do what needs to be done and go home. You would have to be a real sadistic SOB to want people to hate you.  The psych test normally weeds them out of the process. But not all departments give this test. |
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ocman1991A1 Banned
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all those leos should be killed |
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lockman State Researcher 
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ocman1991A1 wrote: all those leos should be killed Unintended Consequences? |
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Citizen Founder's Club Member
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LEO 229 wrote: Citizen wrote:old dog wrote:Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"? Its called citing your source, folks. Social people do that when they can. "So-and-so said," as opposed to some generality like "they said." But, given his history of refusing to cite sources, and occasional flat inability to cite, I can understand why it wouldn't occur to him that someone might be doing that. |
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MetalChris Regular Member
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ocman1991A1 wrote: all those leos should be killed +100 |
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suntzu Regular Member 
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LEO 229 wrote: Citizen wrote:old dog wrote:Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"? |
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Venator Regular Member 
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echo6tango wrote: Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house. In some communities in this country I would assume that every house has a firearm in it. Those 80,000,000 firearms that we own have to be stored somewhere. I suggest that every warrant be a no-knock warrant, can't be to safe ya know.  Last edited on Mon Mar 9th, 2009 12:46 am by Venator |
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Citizen Founder's Club Member
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Venator wrote: echo6tango wrote:Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house. I agree. The SCOTUS should immediately rule the same. Policing is just too dangerous. And there is no justification to make our heroes in blue (or black as the case may be) take any risks at all. "Officer safety is paramount," as one of our LE forum members wrote once. These fine people need all the tools we can give them. If one is injured on the job, we are all injured. They represent us. We are the state, and they are the state. Plus, if all residential warrants were executed no-knock by SWAT, we could end these petty cries of abuse. And save ourselves the cost of increased insurance for the litigation that would be averted. And it needs to be codified that SWAT, during one of these no-knock raids, may shoot any dogs. Agressive or not. Just because a dog isn't attacking, doesn't mean it won't once the SWAT moves to apply hand-cuffs. (satire off) Last edited on Mon Mar 9th, 2009 01:15 am by Citizen |
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suntzu Regular Member
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Venator wrote: echo6tango wrote:I would submit that "no knock warrants" should be completely illegal. They should have to knock and wait a few seconds...Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house. I would further submit that swat/srt should also be disbanded in all departments across the country, local, state and federal--they are simply far too dangerous for use in the public and should be disbanded.....the military mentality should never be tolerated in law enforcement. Last edited on Mon Mar 9th, 2009 01:31 am by suntzu |
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Citizen Founder's Club Member
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suntzu wrote: Venator wrote:echo6tango wrote:Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house. SunTzu, No offense, but it would help read ability if you put your text below the quoted material rather than within it. |
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suntzu Regular Member
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Citizen wrote: suntzu wrote:how's that?Venator wrote:echo6tango wrote:Llewellyn added that when police have reason to believe there might be firearms in a residence, they take precautions to ensure the safety of the officers and anyone inside the house. |
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jegoodin Founder's Club Member 
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LEO 229 wrote: Citizen wrote:old dog wrote:Do police, in some sick way, relish the hatred and contempt they draw upon themselves? What happens when people finally say "enough"? SO how many innocent people do they get to rough up and innocent dogs do they get to shoot before we earn the right to call them "jack booted thugs"? |
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HPC9 Regular Member
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This seriously scares the crap out of me... I have no kids. If someone kicks in my door while I'm in bed my immediate reaction is going to be to take up a defensive position in my bedroom with my wife and my shotgun and pistol, with the intent of protecting my wife any myself. |
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mastiff69 Regular Member
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If i am not mistaken didn't the Iraq military under there commander and chief do the same thing in the name of state security ?And anybody that resisted were shot (sound familiar) dogs, men, women, children, Hitler and all the others have done the same thing , of stomping on your human rights in the name of )(*&(*^(&%&TOIHIUHG, or security Let me add this one thought to all law enforcement officers, what would you do if in the middle of the night, a bunch of military men with full auto's kicked your doors in yelling delta force, or UN security, or militia patrol ????? Don't think it will happen, just keep up the B & E into peoples homes under the color of law !!!!!!!!!! It's time for the judges to be more careful about signing those warrents If you want someone, wait like a cat and catch them out in the open, not on there turf..... Last edited on Tue Mar 10th, 2009 12:10 am by mastiff69 |
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jegoodin Founder's Club Member
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mastiff69 wrote: If i am not mistaken didn't the Iraq military under there commander and chief do the same thing in the name of state security ?And anybody that resisted were shot (sound familiar) dogs, men, women, children, I'm a little surprised that the new liberal administration isn't all over this breach of constitutional rights. They arent big on the 2nd, but are on the other amendments. |
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Thundar Regular Member
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jegoodin wrote:
Liberals always herald in the destruction of personal rights. |
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suntzu Regular Member
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Thundar wrote: jegoodin wrote:unless of course it is their rights which are destroyed--then they cry and whine and blubber on the nightly news... |
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suntzu Regular Member
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jegoodin wrote: mastiff69 wrote:Proof of this statement? Because since the new admin has come to power I have heard the atty. general call us a nation of cowards, and cry out for a new semi-auto ban, as I won't degrade a semi-auto AK47 by calling it an "assault weapon" which it isn't and in the process they are selling out the Constitution and our rights to please the Mexican government(or at least that is the lie they are telling us)...remember, this admin called not only called for a re-write of the Constitution during the campaign, but also called for an "internal security force that is just as well funded, and just as well trained and equipped as the military"--can you say KGB comrade? The ultimate goal of this admin I believe is to make us into a French style socialistic society, or perhaps into a Chinese communistic type society--I just have not yet come to the conclusion of which will be worse....If i am not mistaken didn't the Iraq military under there commander and chief do the same thing in the name of state security ?And anybody that resisted were shot (sound familiar) dogs, men, women, children, Since this admin has come to power I have seen absolutely NO evidence whatsoever to back up your assertion that they care about our Constitutional Rights--although I do see them chomping at the bits to destroy our rights and the Constitution.... So please--do you have proof? Because I would love to see how they care about our rights. |
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Citizen Founder's Club Member
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suntzu wrote: how's that?
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SlackwareRobert Regular Member
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If the dog was in the bedroom, it sounds like the JBT attacked first. Probably goaded the dog by manhandleing its master. Meanwhile in AK they just walk up to the doctors home who has registered machine guns and granade launchers. I hope the judge gets his a** shot up next, if he is issuing warrents to kill animals on site with no provocation. If they are so well trained then why wasn't that training used to subdue the dog with non leathal force. The stolen items were probably the drug planting stash, and throw away pieces. Any relations to the cohorts in atlanta? at the very least same training seminars possibly. |
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suntzu Regular Member
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SlackwareRobert wrote: If the dog was in the bedroom, it sounds like the JBT attacked first.The person who suffered the injustice of having the "swat" team shoot up his house, threaten his life and the life of his family and kill his dog--I absolutely hope he sues and does not even leave those worthless cops a pot to p*ss in, as well as receiving such a huge judgment against the "city" that employed them, that he can actually foreclose on the police department and the city hall and then sell the buildings, squad cars, and the rest of the city property at public auction...every last one of those "officers" should be in jail for at least the next 20yrs. Last edited on Tue Mar 10th, 2009 09:37 pm by suntzu |
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Jonesy Regular Member
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suntzu wrote: SlackwareRobert wrote:If the dog was in the bedroom, it sounds like the JBT attacked first.The person who suffered the injustice of having the "swat" team shoot up his house, threaten his life and the life of his family and kill his dog--I absolutely hope he sues and does not even leave those worthless cops a pot to p*ss in, as well as receiving such a huge judgment against the "city" that employed them, that he can actually foreclose on the police department and the city hall and then sell the buildings, squad cars, and the rest of the city property at public auction...every last one of those "officers" should be in jail for at least the next 20yrs. I see you really like cops. While this story sounds like extreme police behaviour to me, it also seems extreme to suggest the officers should all be in jail, when you don't even know the facts that led to the raid and what evidence led to the warrant. Further, do you think individual officer's have a choice about going on a raid backed by a warrant? I mean the cops cannot go on such a raid unless they present evidence to a judge and convince the judge to issue a warrant, right? Do you think cops should never go on such raids? How about when going after gangbangers for murder charges? I agree that a law abiding gun owner having done nothing wrong should never be subject to such treatment, but there may be alot more to this story. |
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MSC 45ACP Regular Member 
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This is very scary, indeed. Sadly, the outcome would be quite different if it had been my home. There would be bloodshed. I usually have a .45 at arm's reach, even when I'm sleeping. I'm not in the habit of going against law enforcement for any reason, but a "no-knock" warrant would be a very bad idea, indeed. If they want to talk to me, I will gladly show up "downtown" to answer questions (with my lawyer in tow). The police in this area KNOW most homeowners have firearms and would probably NOT act like JBT's if they wanted to question someone. We're all involved in Neighborhood Watch and have a good relationship with our Community Deputy. Its had to believe this happened in this country. What are we coming to???  |
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Lew Regular Member
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Citizen wrote:
Paw cuffs? Someone on the Reason site said basically all I have to say. I fail to see how sending a squad of heavily armed and armored officers into a house without the permission of the owner does anything to ensure the safety of anyone inside the house. |
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9MM Owner Regular Member
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MSC 45ACP wrote: This is very scary, indeed. Sadly, the outcome would be quite different if it had been my home. There would be bloodshed. I usually have a .45 at arm's reach, even when I'm sleeping. I'm not in the habit of going against law enforcement for any reason, but a "no-knock" warrant would be a very bad idea, indeed. If they want to talk to me, I will gladly show up "downtown" to answer questions (with my lawyer in tow). It scares me to think about taking my ill/elderly father to visit my sister's family in Ocean City. I don't know what's worse, worrying about drunk teens and 20+ yearolds or the police who are supposed " To Serve and Protect". |
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hole punch Regular Member 
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Sorry to excavate this thread, but the OPs question was unanswered. In addition to the machine gun registry, all "regulated" weapons in Maryland have to be approved by the State Police before being transferred. This involves filling out a separate form called an "MSP 77R" (it's basically like doing a 4473 all over again, this time for the state) which is sent off to have an additional background check done by the MSP. The State Police deem you either "disapproved" or "not disapproved". They have 7 days to figure out what NICS already figured out in all of 10 minutes. On day 8 you pick up the weapon. There is typically a $10 fee for processing the 77R. Weapons that constitute being "regulated" in Maryland include all modern handguns that are not antiques or repilcas thereof (ie: muzzleloaders are not regulated) as well as any of the 45 rifles and shotguns listed on Maryland's "assault weapons" list, or their "copies". FFL holders are exempt I think, because you can have C&R guns that would otherwise be regulated sent right to your house if your are a C&R holder. The information gleened from the 77R ends up in a database somewhere because the MSP apparently know what you've applied for. This makes Maryland's regulated weapons laws a de facto registry. And we all know where that leads. Dead pets is the least of our worries. |
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Chris1760 Regular Member
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you know as a use of force instructor this makes me sick! No knock for the reason that the person in question legaly owns firearms? ley me guess this was one of Mc Crone's orders this judge is a blow hard at best. I can only hope that these people have a good lawyer and file in the Fed District court. I train and work with leo and corrections this type of action should be punished. I would really like to know whos orders these were and what Intell led them to think that there was going to be an armed resitance to get a No Knock warrent I would love to see the aplication for the warrent. I also agree if that was my home they would have had some problem's I love my brothers and sisters in blue but you break my door in at night like that you better ID your self quick because I will view you as threat and take action that I see fit to repel that threat. Just my .02 Rant over  |
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Bookman Regular Member
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Chris1760 wrote: "...you break my door in at night like that you better ID your self quick because I will view you as threat and take action that I see fit to repel that threat. " My thoughts exactly. Unless I missed it it isn't even noted that the police identified themselves. That makes this a straight home invasion. |
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marshaul Activist Member 
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Jonesy wrote:Do you think cops should never go on such raids? How about when going after gangbangers for murder charges? I agree that a law abiding gun owner having done nothing wrong should never be subject to such treatment, but there may be alot more to this story. Why do you need a no-knock raid on a murder suspect, against whom you presumably have real, actual evidence (unlike in the case of most "crimes" committed today over which a raid is executed)? I mean, do you think he's going to flush his victim down the toilet? Or is it just because he's nasty? Is he far enough down the implicit scale of moral outrage that we should raid his house for its punitive nature, i.e. because it makes us feel "good" to be "tough" on criminals and inflict extrajudicial punishment? Last edited on Mon Oct 12th, 2009 01:09 am by marshaul |
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TechnoWeenie Regular Member
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you DO know how easy it would be to install an 'actuated gas relief valve' at the front door, right? You know, to vent natural gas out of the pipes in an emergency. What dumbass forgot to turn off the gas, and put a damn igniter on it?! 20$ worth of pipes, and a doorbell ringer are all you need.... |
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