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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Florida > Who in FL wants to form a group to get OC moving on Florida>
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Florida > Who in FL wants to form a group to get OC moving on Florida>
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Mike Super Moderator
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The guy who started the petition does not return my emails - need to get a bill introduced in FL this year. FL is only southern OC ban state not moving forward. |
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ixtow Founder's Club Member
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And it won't. FL is too backwards to move forwards. Especially in the new political environment. I've already experienced the effects of it first-hand and am leaving this God-forsaken dump of a state ASAP. |
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sprat Regular Member 
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What happen to the thread for signing the petition it was copied and sent to numerous pro-gun sites here in florida to gain support now its been removed??????????? who took it down why are post disappearing???? maybe if the petition remained up more people would sign, sprat |
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Mike Super Moderator
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sprat wrote: What happen to the thread for signing the petition it was copied and sent to numerous pro-gun sites here in florida to gain support now its been removed??????????? who took it down why are post disappearing???? The petition link won't come up for me right now - maybe it will be up later? The petition web site is owned by the guy who started the petition who has not returned my emails for some time now. What are you talking about posts disappearing? |
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smoking357 Banned 
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Mike wrote: The guy who started the petition does not return my emails - need to get a bill introduced in FL this year. FL is only southern OC ban state not moving forward. It won't go anywhere. So many of the CCW holders love their cute little permits and love feeling "special." If we get open carry under the Florida Constitution, with a permit being required to go concealed, all the little dweebs with their cute permits won't feel so powerful. Look for the CCW crowd to oppose open carry. If you're not for open carry, you're an enemy of gun owners. |
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sprat Regular Member
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Smoke I am advocate of open carry and a member here and other sites including floridaconcealed. you are making lots of emenies over there. please tone down, you not helping the cause. whether you think your right or whether you are wrong, jamming things down peoples throats gets there backs up try a tablespoon I originally wanted to help start/carry on the petition, but I changed my mind, not because of comments by Florida residents sprat |
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smoking357 Banned
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sprat wrote: Smoke You're a Summer soldier. Keep your mouth shut around me, because you haven't earned the right to speak with a true RKBA advocate, and you don't have your band of half-hearts to cover your back. Either you support open carry, or there's something wrong with you, and you truly don't support RKBA. "Enemies?" Hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go walk around Wal-Mart. |
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sprat Regular Member
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smoking357 wrote: sprat wrote:Smoke what is a summer soldier, cut me a break as far as keeping my shut I have been on this site longer than you and I will speak my mind if I feel like it! to you or anyone else , its not your place. I earned the right to speak to true RKBA advocate;s before you were born. your a fraud as indicated by your posts here at other sites I travel and post alone I am not a gangleader I don't need anyone here or on any other site to cover my back Enemies you got plenty and soon to get more, you didn't read my response to your thread on Floridaconcealed carry you would know I don't patronize Wal Mart you have major problems you should seek professional help as far as open carrying I have been open carrying since the late 80's more of a advocate and more experienced than many get a life |
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smoking357 Banned
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sprat wrote:
You're not even a real American. You don't even know the founding words of this country. |
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hammer6 Regular Member 
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smoking357 wrote: Mike wrote:The guy who started the petition does not return my emails - need to get a bill introduced in FL this year. FL is only southern OC ban state not moving forward. i was just in arizona for a month and open carried for the first time. i'm born and raised in florida, and have a CWL for florida. i loved every minute of open carrying in arizona. (except that i couldnt' do it in restaurants). |
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GunsNLipstick Regular Member
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I spent four hours here last night reading, and learned more here in a few hours than I've learned on other gun sites in years. Thank you all for sharing your in-depth knowledge of the rules & regs.!! As for pushing for Florida Open Carry legislation, I'm all for it and will spread the message far and wide. Any suggestions from those who have managed it in their states on how to create a successful push here? Thanks Bev |
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Grapeshot Founder's Club Member 
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GunsNLipstick wrote: I spent four hours here last night reading, and learned more here in a few hours than I've learned on other gun sites in years. Welcome aboard GunsNLipstick - in four hours you've managed to scratch the surface I'm sure.  There is someone working on it I believe as I remember reading about it here on OCDO but it didn't turn up in my search. Anybody? You mean like this lady at a VCDL picnic, right? Yata hey Attached Image (viewed 594 times): |
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Glock23shooter Regular Member 
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should get a picnic and group goin for tampa, i would deff be down for this! |
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DHelms Regular Member 
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Florida used to have open carry for a short time back in the '80's. |
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Prometheus Regular Member 
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I may be moving back to Florida (I'm a native). I do not look forward to going back to Florida's draconian gun laws. Having lived in Indiana for 8 years now I've got a lifetime License to Carry (cost all of 60 bucks) and there is no law against the carry of longarms (open, concealed, loaded, unloaded). I do NOT look forward to having to go back to constant concealed carry, nor the insane fees for the CWL. $180 bucks for 5 years IIRC. Thats highway robbery. Not to mention the 3 month wait as opposed to 2 weeks in Indiana. Not to mention you can't get a CWL until you are 21 in Florida, in Indiana it's 18. Up here we will soon be pushing for Vermont style carry, No permits or licenses. That's what Florida needs. Florida is WAY behind the curve in gun laws and Rights. Time for them to join the 21st century. |
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Glock23-4-Me Regular Member 
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Prometheus wrote: I may be moving back to Florida (I'm a native). if it makes you feel any better, the license is now good for 7 years  |
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smoking357 Banned
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Prometheus wrote: I may be moving back to Florida (I'm a native). Amen, bro. Sing it. Dude, I know Indiana has its negatives, but if you're into guns, I mean, really into guns, Florida sucks compared to Indiana. In the Midwest, the gun stores generally have this mellow "Howya' doin'" Good Ole Boy vibe, while in Florida, so many of the guys working the gun stores have this goofy cop/military attitude. They act almost like the gun store is a police office adjunct. The military vibe in the stores down here is not the surplus-store vibe of the Midwest, either, where the store is outfitting survivalists and independent types with tents, camp stoves, subversive literature, and MREs. The military vibe in the stores here is this really eerie authoritiarian thing, like everyone is practicing for a building entry. It's kinda creepy. They're also really unfriendly to open carry. Stop into a few gun stores, and drop the topic of open carry. Nobody picks it up. All they want is CCW. They also know almost nothing about competition shooting, and it's nigh impossible to get reloading components or gear, except for the shotgun facilities which are pretty good, in the main. As an example, I once called every gun range in my area and asked if they allowed cast bullets to be shot (in the Midwest, I wouldn't have to ask), and not one store even knew what a cast bullet was. Last edited on Fri Apr 24th, 2009 02:02 pm by smoking357 |
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acrimsontide Regular Member 
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smoking357 wrote: Prometheus wrote:I may be moving back to Florida (I'm a native). If you are that unhappy in Florida try looking in the yellow pages under "Moving". I'm sure you will find one that can get you out of the state |
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smoking357 Banned
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acrimsontide wrote: smoking357 wrote:Prometheus wrote:I may be moving back to Florida (I'm a native). Or, and here's a radical idea, you could try coming up to the level of a good pro-gun state, with good pro-gun politics, with knowledgeable shooters. Most of the guys down here who are really good got good somewhere else and moved here. I'd like to see Florida develop an active competitive development program for youths through seniors. |
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smoking357 Banned
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What's sad is that I have an open carry lawsuit that I'm close to having completed, but I'm reluctant to file it because of the backlash, attacks and negative treatment I'd receive from Florida gun owners. |
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blacksharkL82 Regular Member
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Not to be an butt head, but what is wrong with Fl. laws? We have a right to carry, with a permit, AKA CCW. Very open about guns and shooting. Leave it in the car, law. Which I don't. Stand your ground, law. Which I do. Pretty much not a hard core anti state. I like it here and our laws suite me just fine, with one exception, OPEN CARRY, is a no no. It's kinda hard to hide a 1911, under a tee shirt. I have to wear a much larger @#$% than a fitted one. So, te;ll me what's wrong. |
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Glock23-4-Me Regular Member
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smoking357 wrote: What's sad is that I have an open carry lawsuit that I'm close to having completed, but I'm reluctant to file it because of the backlash, attacks and negative treatment I'd receive from Florida gun owners. I would love to have OC in florida. I went to GA a couple weeks ago and OC the whole time I was there. |
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Prometheus Regular Member
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blacksharkL82 wrote: Not to be an butt head, but what is wrong with Fl. laws? Go back and read my and smoking357's post's. Florida is still in the dark ages of gun laws compared to most states. Sure Florida took the lead for a bit two decades ago but Florida has stood still since then while the rest of the country is moving forward. I had to move from Florida to realize how crappy Florida gun laws are in comparison to most of the other states. I was like you 8 years ago. Having lived in PA and IN and regularly going to TN and KY it really opened my eyes. Not to mention all the friends who travel to AZ/NV, lol. OC is just a small part of the problem with Florida gun laws. Again you want to really open your eyes, go look up the laws in Pennsylvania and especially look up Vermont's gun laws. Indiana (where I currently reside) is better than Florida but could definitely be better than it is. Heck even New Hampshire has better gun laws than Florida!  The more I move and visit the rest of this country and the world the more I realize people are stuck into thinking their city/state is the "best" or some sort of "top dog" in certain areas. You really want to see some back woods idiots when it comes to city pride? Go to chicago, lol. Bottom line? I'm a Florida native who wants to come home. I want to improve my home by having it fall in line with the Constitution. Whats so wrong about that? |
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blacksharkL82 Regular Member
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I think I would like OC, but I don't live in the propper state. I came from NJ, where I applied and was not approved to carry, even being a SPL PO. Gave up the temp badge and moved to where they allow me to live in safety. Her, in Fl., carring my 1911, under a shirt, is pretty hard to hide. My only complaint, so far. Printing, a big problem. I've been warned too many times, with a smile from the POs. Too old and fussy to move, now. I carry at least 2 at a time and with shorts and Tees, it's hard to not show/print. LOL |
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Lenny Benedetto Regular Member 
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Hello Floridians. I live in CT where OC is perfectly legal, unfortunately the masses and LEO's DO NOT KNOW THIS! Which can cause many problems when OCing, Here in CT. We are following the lead of the VCDL. A bunch of us from this forum got together for dinner in February, and we are in the process of building our own Grassroots organization. We are well on our way. We are a group dedicated to protecting our gun rights, we will also be sponsoring OC events to help spread the word that it is legal in CT. I recomend that you try to do the same type of thing in FL if you ever wish to OC in your state legally. Unfortunately a petition will not get the job done. It is a good start but you need to be organized to attempt to persuade law makers to see things your way. Good luck and keep fighting to change your laws!!! Last edited on Sat May 2nd, 2009 11:44 pm by Lenny Benedetto |
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Chip Maker Regular Member
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I'm from Florida, and recently moved to NM. I thought Florida tried the OC law back in the 80s, when they enacted the CC law, but recinded it because there were too many incidents of folks getting into gun fights on the street. Am I wrong on this? |
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OC4me Regular Member
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It appears that open carry of 'antique firearms' is arguably still legal in Florida (if you want to group OC and get media attention, that may be the way to go). It would draw some attention to Florida's obviously unconstitutional ban on open carry of modern arms in most public places. |
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smoking357 Banned
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OC4me wrote: It appears that open carry of 'antique firearms' is arguably still legal in Florida (if you want to group OC and get media attention, that may be the way to go). I'm interested. Do you have a cite? |
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blacksharkL82 Regular Member
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Me too. Start it and they will come. |
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OC4me Regular Member
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smoking357 wrote: OC4me wrote:It appears that open carry of 'antique firearms' is arguably still legal in Florida (if you want to group OC and get media attention, that may be the way to go). Discussed in this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum17/20492.html Am I reading the Statutes (790.053 & 790.001) wrong? If you do this, make sure you double and triple check the statutes (I am not a lawyer), have a large group (don't try this by yourself) and do your best to educate the local LEOs first and also alert the media. The goal is education and not confrontation. Also don't forget to check local ordinances too. Last edited on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 02:15 pm by OC4me |
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onetuza Regular Member
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I for one believe there should be no gun laws, that's right, no gun laws. I believe in the Constitution. What part of "shall not be infringed." is confusing?? I am surprised at such little interest or leadership in Florida regarding Open Carry. Count me in. Last edited on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 07:07 pm by onetuza |
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MandP45c Regular Member
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Guy's, you might double check this, but no petition signed via the internet is legal! |
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sniper1 Regular Member
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I would love to be a part of this. I hate not being able to open carry. Where do we go from here? I am CWP holder, but have nothing against open carry as well. Last edited on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 07:00 pm by sniper1 |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member 
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Hello Everyone! I have just joined this forum today but please dont let that fool you.  The reason I am here is I decided this is a topic I want to passionately persue. It appears we are still in limbo from when this thread started back in Feb. If anyone is in for the long haul, you can count me in. My PERSONAL opinions are that we will have to stage a multi year attack. The first year try to get a bill out there but mostly launch a large educational attack to interested parties and build a grassroots orginazation. The bill might pass the second go round but most likely the third. Hope I am wrong and it passes on the first run. If anyone else is really interested and willing to go the long haul on this.. again count me in. I will be watching for replies. Reb |
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77zach Regular Member
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I'm serious about this too. Open carry is a great preservative for the second amendment. We need to make FL a gold star state. On another note, while i can't speak for the attitude of people in other states, Florida's laws are amongst some of the most liberal. I researched the laws in all the other states and Florida is relatively free. No machine gun laws or silencer laws. ( One source said Florida has more NFA owners than any other state, legal and illegal.) Can carry a loaded long gun anywhere in a vehicle. Can carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle as long as it is not available for immediate use. Shall issue CCW. No assault weapons ban. No duty to retreat in public Here is the plan, the correct path to getting all the laws eliminated, imo. 0. The 10th amendment , HB 21 The Florida Firearms Freedom Act has already been introduced. GET ON THE PHONE TO YOUR LEGISLATORS. I CALLED MINE, NOW HE'S A SPONSOR!. Kurt Kelly. 1. Get unlicensed open carry 2. Wait awhile, go for school carry, at least college carry. 3. Go for Vermont/Alaska carry 4. Some counties have waiting periods for handguns if you don't have a CCW, get the state to do away with these. Really, these should be done simultaneously, but I think 2-4 will come relatively easily if #0 and #1 are passed, and we make open carry common. |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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Shoot me a message and lets get together sometime soon and discuss strategy. I am in the greater Tampa Bay area. Now is the time to get organized and moving on this. Reb |
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77zach Regular Member
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rebel-patriot wrote: Shoot me a message and lets get together sometime soon and discuss strategy. I am in the greater Tampa Bay area. Strategy is the question. I must admit that I always to ignore the state as much as possible because I hate the government so much and it makes me angry, and am thus largely ignorant of the legislative process. I guess if we could get 200 people to go to the capitol building and protest when they're in session? Can you testify when they're in session? Can you go office to office? Letters are a possibility. Perhaps a few of us could draft a single, comprehensive letter and deliver it to gun friendly legislators, maybe a couple hundred words in all explaining how OC is our right, how it normalizes, celebrates, and maintains the right to bear arms, and how it is a very effective crime deterrent for a criminal to see someone OCing where he wants to commit a crime. Most or all of these legislators would be agreeable considering the refreshing legislation they're cosponsoring: HB 21 http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/SEctions/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=42148& So maybe have sit down meetings with them too? I'm sure they've seen OC in the news lately as the news is hyping it up. [url=javascript:emoticon('  ',%20'images/emoticons/banghead.gif')]document.write('[/url]'); |
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Knapper Regular Member
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The only part about open carry that bothers me is I'm concerned that many shop owners, and possibly many conglom's (like Wally, Sears, etc) will post "No Firearms" signs in the windows to deter open carry in their businesses (their right). In effect, if the signs read "No Firearms" that means no CC either. I would hope that we could find a way to make the law state that business could restrict Open Carry but not concealed carry.. That way if the sign says "No Firearms" you could just tuck it under the shirt. Right now it's kind of 'Out of sight out of mind' for the most part. If we adopted open carry, then they would see it, and it could limit where we carry. I carry everywhere legal as it stands now, I'd hate to see a bunch of 'No Firearms" signs popping up at liquor stores and gas stations. Maybe somoene could give some reference to other Open CArry states about how many places (an average or percentage) began to restrict guns in thier places of business? I'm all for open carry so long as we don't end up shooting ourselves in the foot and finding more places pushing the anti 2nd agenda upon us. Jess |
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77zach Regular Member
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I'm not concerned about that. I'll just conceal or take my business elsewhere. Our rights are not contingent on what others think. And I definitely don't want the government telling businesses they have to allow concealed guns. They won't know if I have it and it is concealed. This isn't a big problem in the 30 states that recognize open carry. |
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ADulay Regular Member 
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rebel-patriot wrote: Shoot me a message and lets get together sometime soon and discuss strategy. I am in the greater Tampa Bay area. Well, I'm just an hour south of you and have plenty of time. If there's to be a productive meeting in the future, please include me in the mail list. AD Last edited on Sun Sep 13th, 2009 09:10 pm by ADulay |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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Hi folks! 77Zach, Knapper, Adulay, thanks for the replies. I was beginning to think that this thread had lost interest. I am just north of Tampa in Southern Pasco. I can definitely travel to meet with people and am interested in getting a core group of people together to get this moving here in Florida. Adulay I know you are an hour south per your message. Which area would be easier for you to get to, Brandon or St. Pete? Gives me an idea which way you are coming in. I am available on Sundays and Tuesdays. I would appreciate if everyone would chime in with when they are available and where they will be coming from so we can try to pick a time and a central location. As I see it, and I am by no lawyer or expert, We have a couple of paths to follow in order to accomplish this. That is the strategy to which I am referring. The "paths" I am talking about here are: 1. The specific repeal of Florida Statute 790.053 or 2. Initiate an amendment to the state Constitution. That decision will tell us what type of organization we will need to create. Both paths are going to require money, legal help etc.. so we will need to start thinking of fundraisers.. Maybe get on the phone with the Wisconsin folks and discuss what they have been doing. Perhaps get with the founders of this website in VA and get some advise as well. Is this going to be a hard line, our way or the highway type thing or are we willing as a group to have a fallback position? In other words are we going to hardline it saying Open Carry for all legal gunowners without the need for any kind of permit etc or are we willing to accept an initial fallback position of changing the CC permit to a generic "firearms permit" here in Florida where any firearms permit holder can either OC or CC as they wish? I am just tossing ideas out to get the tumblers moving. I firmly believe that this decision should not be made lightly and should be discussed openly and logically by this group before organizing. 77Zach, I understand your frustrations with the system. All of the topics and issues you raise are good points. These are specfic actions used to accomplish the overall strategy. Once the group has formed and made the big decisions, that is when these type of actions will be decided on and begun. I propose this as a beginning agenda for our meeting. Please pitch in ideas and locations. 1. Meet and greet. Each person gives a brief introduction outlining their personal history, why this is important to them, and what skills they believe they bring to the group. Say 5-10 minutes each person. 2. Objectives. What is it exactly we wish to accomplish and how best to organize around that objective. This is going to be the core of the meeting and initially I propose we spend at least an hour or more discussing this and allowing everyone to be heard. 3. Action Items. I am sure questions will be raised and more information will be necessary for everyone to make their personal decisions as to whether or not to commit to this group. We should all agree initially to get together at least 3 times to discuss and decide. 4. Decide on a next meeting date, time, location. I propose we all set our calendars for Sunday September 27th for our first meeting. Does this sould good to everyone else? Comments, questions, constructive criticisms? Reb |
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77zach Regular Member
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I believe we should go for "gold star" status. If we can convince them to allow OC with a permit, we should be able to do it without a permit. We could point out that most states allow unlicensed OC without any problems. That currently Fl has no right to bear arms, as we must wait and get permission from the state to carry at all. That it's very hot here and not always convenient to conceal, etc. Not to mention that if we can only OC with a permit, it will still be uncommon enough that every time you do it, the cops are going to ask to see your "permit" every time you go out, they'll run it every time and make you not want to OC. And in the bigger cities, forget about it. And finally, and MOST importantly, the sheeple at large believe that owning and carrying weapons is a privilege granted by the state. Read the forums in gold star states-what is the common response from the sheep? It's "Do you have a permit for that?" If we can say "no, it's our right, and it's legally recognized" then we have done a service to our rights and liberty in general. If we say "yes", this reinforces the misguided idea that the right is a privilege and that we're only safe if the government sanctifies us. For these reasons, I insist we go for the whole thing. If we go for it and fall short, then I'll take it but... |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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Cool.. the overall point of my last post was simply to outline that organization is critical to getting this moving here in FL... and many decisions need to be made before that organization can come together.. so lets come together and discuss for at least 3 meetings and let each interested party put their cards on the table and see if from it all we cant organize a core group with an action plan. (edit - add this PS) BTW.. Love your passion. Absolutely necessary for this issue. When we get together, bring supporting facts and stats to your argument. Will be quite interesting and will, I believe, go a long way to helping form the core group. Reb Last edited on Wed Sep 9th, 2009 03:04 pm by rebel-patriot |
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77zach Regular Member
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Agreed. What was that organization headed by NRA pres Marion Hammer that got shall issue CCWs passed here in the 80's? Florida sportsmen Association or something like that? They were instrumental in the "stand your ground law" and the "guns at work" law too. She follows the line of the NRA mostly, and they've only been concerned about permitted concealed, but the tide seems to be shifting a little, with OC being in the news and all. If somehow we did get their support, our chances go to very good. I live about 2 hours north of tampa unfortunately, and am pretty busy. I just graduated from UCF, just turned 24 and am living at home again, and I think going back to school in Gainesville. I'd be willing to go down to Tampa if it would be worthwhile. A lot of times meetings aren't useful. Actually going down to Hernando county in early october for the Appleseed, which should be informative. There might be some recruits to our cause as well? If it involves writing or meeting legislators or going to Tallahassee to talk to them, then I'll definitely drive to do something like that. |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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77zach - How does the 27th look for you? Meetings can be productive or unproductive depending on the people participating. I proposed an agenda and a date. Agenda's help to keep meetings focused and on track. But to pull the "core" group together, I think that at least 3 meetings in person will be critical. Part of that should be to establish regular means of online communications among those members in support of the ongoing events and goals. If we can get at least 5 people to commit to 3 in person meetings.. I think we can have the basis of a core group. Have you thought at all about what would be the best method of acheiving "gold star" status in regards to OC? I think our choices are: 1. Constitutional Amendment - long drawn out process but with the longest lasting results if successful. 2. Specific repeal of Florida Statute 790.053 - This would remove the OC is not legal section to current law 3. Lawsuit against the State of Florida Here is a point of interest : Florida Constitution of 1838 Section 21 states "That the free white men of this State shall have the right to keep and to bear arms, for their common defense. " Florida Constitution of 1861 Section 21 states "That the free white men of this state shall have the right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense." Both of these Constitutions were before the Civil War. Florida Constitiution of 1868 Section 22 states "The people shall have the right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the State." then in gets hinky just a few years after that. Florida Constitiution of 1885 Section 20 states "The right of the people to bear arms in defense of themselves and the lawful authority of the State, shall not be infringed, but the Legislature may prescribe the manner in which they may be borne." and finally Florida Constitiution of 1968 Section 8 states "Right to Bear Arms. The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed, except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law." So... for the past 124 years the State of Florida has reserved the right to themselves to prescribe the manner in which individual citizens can bear arms. I am further looking into the history of Florida Statutes in addition to constitutional issues. Hope to hear from you and others and get this moving. Reb |
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77zach Regular Member
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Probably not the 27th. My parents are taking advantage of my being back home, and are going away and will want me to baby sit that weekend. The next weekend I go toappleseed. I'm also working most weekends. Florida history is very interesting. Before i did fresh install on my pc and forgot to save the folder it was in, i had a FL supreme court case from the 30's ( i think) that you wouldn't believe. Basically it said, if you're white, you can carry concealed or openly WITHOUT a permit. Permits were for the "negroes". side issue. I would think changing the statute or a lawsuit would be the best way. So maybe do a fundraiser for a lawsuit first, and when the fascist judge rules against us, parlay that media exposure into motivation for some pro gun FL house or senate members to get the statute change? Just throwing ideas out there. The lawsuit is foolproof, in my opinion, but we don't have respect for natural rights or rule of law in this country. There is no "right" to bear arms here. Even if one interprets "regulate the manner" to be referring to "open" or "concealed" and not simply secured in a holster, not drunk or disorderly, not waving it around irresponsibly, etc; the constitution is still violated. It seems to me that the state must allow Unlicensed carry in SOME manner, instead of in NO manner whatsoever, if indeed we have a Right? So I think first we go for the lawsuit. Then either way after that, amendment or statutory revision. However, I would think it takes more votes and effort to amend the Constitution, but I really don't know. |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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77zach wrote: I would think changing the statute or a lawsuit would be the best way. So maybe do a fundraiser for a lawsuit first, and when the fascist judge rules against us, parlay that media exposure into motivation for some pro gun FL house or senate members to get the statute change? Just throwing ideas out there. A lawsuit is definitely on the table IMHO. It is the strategy of it that I am thinking over. Consider the following: 1. Lawsuit first then change the law if lawsuit is lost. I agree that the lawsuit will most likely fail. Not on its merits, but based on the modern trend of the judiciary to interpret the law based on popular opinion and not on the legal merits. During the course of this it definitely opens widespread debate and media coverage. It also allows opponents (and we all know they are already organized and working) to get their machine going and the cost of the fight just increased. 2. Change the law first and let the opponents file suit against. I think this puts them on the defensive instead of the offensive. I also have the sense that the timing is close to being right to get the ear of the legislature here in Florida for this. Consider HB 21. Within HB 21 it states the following: "(d) The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution reserves to the people the right to keep and bear arms as that right was understood at the time that Florida was admitted to statehood in 1845. The guaranty of that right is a matter of contract between the State of Florida and its citizens and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Florida and the United States in 1845. (e) Section 8, Article I of the Florida Constitution clearly secures to the citizens of Florida, and prohibits government interference with, the right of individual Florida citizens to keep and bear arms. This constitutional protection remains unchanged from the original Florida Constitution, which was approved by Congress and the people of Florida, and the right exists as it was understood at the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Florida and the United States in 1845." I think a good argument can be made to those supporting this bill that the right of Florida citizens to legally bear arms openly was clearly understood in 1845 and should be upheld by the removal of Florida Statute 790.053. I understand your time constraints. Is there a date in September that would be good for you? Hopefully on a Tuesday or Sunday? Reb - signing off for the day.. will be back tomorrow. |
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77zach Regular Member
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I agree on all points. Perhaps there is a lawyer in this state who will do it out of the goodness of his heart or just to cover his costs. On the other hand it's in reality going to require some time and cash. How far do we keep appealing? The longer we go the costlier it becomes. Wish there was an interested lawyer on this message board. The lady who introduced HB 21 in the House, O'Toole, is not far from me, it can't hurt if I go talk to her about this. The guy in my district now cosponsors HB21 so maybe I'll go feel him out. I couldn't believe it- I called him about it, he said he'd read the bill, and then the next week he was a sponsor. There are plenty of pro-gun pols around. Shoot, the citizenry around here would agree with us by far (marion county). They'd be onboard with total 2A freedom. They just can't be bothered: " I got my deer rifle and my duck gun, and a pistol in the glovebox and a CCW in case those Obama supporters make me feel threatened, and I'm happy." Ok, path of least resistance first. This week I'll draft a letter to the sponsors of HB 21 about OC. I'll post it here and get comments, then I'll send it to them. I will deliver it to my rep in person. I'm also going to send it to a senator haridopolis from district 26. it looks like he'll become the president of the senate. He's a libertarian leaning republican who introduced a bill legalizing the sale of raw milk in stores in Fl. He would be a good ally to have. Remember we have to find strategic targets in the Senate as well. Any sunday in october after the first one would work for me ( i think). Need to get multiple people involved in this however. PS. Wonder if there is anyone out there who actually has the misdemeanor charge for OC. I don't even think it's necessarily an arrestable offense. just a fine. This way the state initiates the aggression against a peaceable citizen and the process is already started for us!!! We could raise money for him to get the conviction overturned. |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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Hey zach... again I love the passion man. But this is where I think you need to slow your roll just a little and here is why. Which do you think will be more effective? Individuals writing letters to their reps, some of them eloquent some not so much, some making good points some not as well, all coming in to the reps. Or... a lot of letters coming in all around the same time, all hitting the same talking points in one form or another followed up by calls and requests for meetings and face time? This is where jumping from strategy to tactical action too quickly can cause unintended bumps in the road and why I am trying to gauge interest in getting a core group of people organized behind the issue. It boils down to Plan the Work then Work the Plan.. but do so in a way to maximize impact and get the point across quickly and efficiently. Write your letter, get the information on who to send it to etc.. but I urge you to seriously take my request to get this core group together and a full action plan in place and maximize the impact of your efforts along with others. Just my two cents and worth every penny you paid for it.. how does that go? Opinions are like.. lol.. Later man.. talk to you soon. Reb |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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77zach wrote: Title XLVI CRIMES Chapter 790 Weapons And Firearms View Entire Chapter 775.082 or s. 775.083. Title XLVI CRIMES Chapter 775 Definitions; General Penalties; Registration Of Criminals View Entire Chapter 775.082 Penalties; applicability of sentencing structures; mandatory minimum sentences for certain reoffenders previously released from prison.-- (b) For a misdemeanor of the second degree, by a definite term of imprisonment not exceeding 60 days. 775.083 Fines.--(e) $500, when the conviction is of a misdemeanor of the second degree or a noncriminal violation. While I am not an attorney nor a LEO, I am almost 100% certain you would be arrested, arraigned, and prosecuted if this were pressed. If found guilty, above are the penalties. Reb |
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77zach Regular Member
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You're right, we need a coalition of the willing. |
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marrandy Regular Member
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790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm (3) The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall deny a license if the applicant has been found guilty of, had adjudication of guilt withheld for, or had imposition of sentence suspended for one or more crimes of violence constituting a misdemeanor, unless 3 years have elapsed since probation or any other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled or the record has been sealed or expunged. The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services shall revoke a license if the licensee has been found guilty of, had adjudication of guilt withheld for, or had imposition of sentence suspended for one or more crimes of violence within the preceding 3 years. So the volunteer would likely have his CCL revoked. Last edited on Fri Sep 11th, 2009 07:31 am by marrandy |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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Hey folks.. is anyone other than myself and zack really interested in moving the OC issue forward in the state of Florida? Come on, speak up. (Edit - adding thoughts) You know.. I imagine that there are plenty of people that wish this issue was decided and they could carry open. They also don't have time to devote outside their personal lives to get it changed the way they would really like to see it. Well the honest part is the real time you devote could be fairly minimal. Getting something up and running is the hard part. But your involvement could be as simple as joining an email group and possibly signing a petition or maybe attending a function or two when you have time. But if there is no interest, and no one at all wants to get involved, what makes you think that things will ever change in your favor other than just blind luck? Think it over, post a message. Thanks Reb American by birth, Southern by choice Last edited on Fri Sep 11th, 2009 07:34 pm by rebel-patriot |
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blacksharkL82 Regular Member
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ME! Too hot to wear a propper consealment garment for my 1911. blacksharkL82@aol.com Spring Hill, 45 miles N of Tampa, at the Gulf. |
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77zach Regular Member
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It doesn't look like it bodes well, Reb You're absolutely right; most people definitely want OC here, but it's as you say. I guess I'll go and scour the Texas section, and see what, if any progress is being made |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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blacksharkL82 wrote: ME! Hi Blackshark! I am just south of you in Port Richey. Actually am getting ready to go up to Spring Hill Lanes Lounge tonight for a little while. Blackshark, go back and read some of the stuff 77zack and I have been kicking round and give some input when you can. Glad to meet you. Reb |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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77zach wrote: It doesn't look like it bodes well, Reb Dont lose heart zach. Struggles are never easy and believe it or not, one person CAN make a difference. Hang in there.. more to come soon Reb |
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ADulay Regular Member
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rebel-patriot wrote: Hey folks.. is anyone other than myself and zack really interested in moving the OC issue forward in the state of Florida? Come on, speak up. Hey, I'm back. Was getting caught up on the reading of messages here and all of your excellent discussion on this problem in Florida. I was out in the Dakotas since my last posting and did "open carry" quite a bit with no problems at all. Your request for a meeting time and place is a great idea and assuming we can ever get this small group started, a brain storming session is the logical starting venue. I'm in Punta Gorda, FL and can make it to pretty much anyplace in the state for a meeting. Also, from some of the reading here, it appears I'm really going to have to get up to speed on the Florida statutes as they apply to us and our upcoming challenge. I do believe that you are both correct in going at it via a removal of the prohibitions, as dictated by statute, rather than attempting a full blown state constitutional amendment. I have previously sent emails and letters to my state reps, the governor and congressmen as directed by various NRA email updates so getting that type of communication out shouldn't be a problem for most of us. It's actually quite painless to do that kind of thing using some of the national boilerplate accounts. AD |
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blacksharkL82 Regular Member
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Has anyone thought of contacting any of the national gun groups, such as the NRA. and others of the same ilk? They may have some pointers and help us front the push. Maybe. |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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Hi folks! Well it looks like we may have the beginning of a discussion group here and hopefully more. We will see after we all get face to face a time or two and determine from there. For my part, I have been busy reading and discussing and forming what I believe to be the beginnings of a group policy. All up for debate and discussion. I would much rather have additional input into strategies and tactical planning than do it all on my own. Yes I have thought about getting other groups involved in the effort but in my opinion that is kind of putting the cart before the horse. I also believe large groups like the NRA are going to take a back seat, at most provide some minimal direction maybe. Once it is done they will come out all bells and whistles and congratulate everyone but for the "getting it done" section I think they will wait it out. I think the best course of action is to get together and stick to an agenda. Discuss it out and find the best set of strategies. Develop an action plan around those strategies and work it tirelessly as much as is possible. I also think it will take at least 2 legislative sessions to accomplish this once the group is organized and working. I think we have some very valid and logical arguments on our side and can accomplish the tasks. As for outside groups, I think any venue possible to relay the message is a good thing. Immediately to mind at the 1.5 million CCW holders here in the state of Florida, most Libertarian, Constitutionalist, tea party members, maybe get a table at some gun shows around the state and collect signatures and pass out literature etc etc etc etc... but this all has to revolve around the type of group and organization to support this and how to grow that etc.. I think lots to discuss. So far I count 4 of us.. a good start I think.. I have been on vacation this week and tomorrow go back to the grind of it all. I will be online some mornings and late nights. Tuesdays are the best for me during my work week. So please, do not take messages far and few between to mean I am lax on this issue. Just busy earning a living. LOL. I propose we get together the second sunday in October, which will be OCT 11 if all of us can attend. Zack? Adulay? Blackshark? Let me know how that date is on your calendar. Reb American by birth, Southern by choice. |
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ADulay Regular Member
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rebel-patriot wrote: I propose we get together the second sunday in October, which will be OCT 11 if all of us can attend. Well, Biketoberfest 2009 is the following weekend (15-18 October) in Daytona and all of my other meetings fall on other days so as far as I'm concerned, October 11th is a good day, at least for me. With that said, I can probably make pretty much any other date if others need it to change. AD |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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Hey folks.. I have been cruising around the OC website here and have stumbled across a possibly better idea. OpenCarry has an irc chatroom. If you dont know about it look here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum3/3580.html How about if we all get together and meet at least once or twice in the chatroom and discuss in moderated forum regarding this topic and after that we can decide on a once or twice face to face? If everyone is good for a chat meeting I propose it to be on Tuesday September 22 at 8 pm EST. Let me know. Reb American by birth, Southern by choice |
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Glock23-4-Me Regular Member
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http://www.slashnet.org/webclient/OpenCarry |
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77zach Regular Member
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Sounds good. Can't guarantee it, but i should be able to participate or chime in. |
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Tucky Regular Member
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I'll be there. We really need to get this movement going. There seems to be a fair amount of apathy in Florida on this issue. |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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Tucky wrote: I'll be there. We really need to get this movement going. There seems to be a fair amount of apathy in Florida on this issue. Apathy? In Flori-duh? Really? LOL Welcome Tucky and if you havent already I would suggest going back and reading some of the discussion zack and I have had in this thread. Reb American by birth, Southern by choice |
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BIG DADDY OF 5 Regular Member
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iF YOU GOOGLE OPEN CARRY IN FLORIDA THERE IS A SITE TRYING TO PUSH OPEN CARRY DUE TO THE HEAT AND HOW HARD IT IS TO CONCEAL. THEY HAVE A PETITION YOU CAN SIGN. |
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rebel-patriot Regular Member
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BIG DADDY OF 5 wrote: iF YOU GOOGLE OPEN CARRY IN FLORIDA THERE IS A SITE TRYING TO PUSH OPEN CARRY DUE TO THE HEAT AND HOW HARD IT IS TO CONCEAL. THEY HAVE A PETITION YOU CAN SIGN. Quite true Big Daddy. However the site you reference above is, I think, not truly active any longer. If you search this board you will find that the site owner started this effort a few years ago. Has gone silent. The webpage for viewing the signers of the signers of the petition is no longer there. Therefore the script he is/was using has an error in it. I have tried contacting this person with no response. So for all practical purposes this referenced site is dead, and a new effort needs to be started. Welcome to the board. Rebel American by birth, Southern by choice |
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GIdeon_70 Regular Member
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I plan an open carry fishing trip in a public location during the month of November. I've already cleared it with the police, and it is a done deal. All that remains is to set the date. If anyone is interested in joining us, then RSVP me at [url=mailto GO@daytonagunowners.com]DGO@daytonagunowners.com[/url], when I get enough people (about 20) then I'll set the final date. |
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Tucky Regular Member
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GIdeon, I'd love to participate in a fishing trip, but you haven't posted where it's going to be located. Tucky |
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GIdeon_70 Regular Member
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Sorry about that, it will be Holly Hill Florida |
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Tucky Regular Member
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GIdeon_70 wrote:Sorry about that, it will be Holly Hill Florida I'm about 3 hours away from there. Are you anticipating a weekend fishing trip? If so, count me in. Tucky |
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