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OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Mississippi > Moss Point Police & Open Carry
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| OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Stories From The States > Mississippi > Moss Point Police & Open Carry
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ECALEXANDER Regular Member
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Was stopped on 02/12/2009 by MPPD 139 gave him my DL and Firearms Permit, was asked to step out vehicle, was carrying openly on right hip. Officer was very professional he removed my weapon, pulled the mag, and cleared the round from the chamber while asking me why I carry a gun. He proceeded to check the serial number while this other officer comes over and says, "This ain't Texas, You can't carry your gun in the open like that". I said I have a Firearms Permit. He says "It can't be in the open, it(my pistol) must be concealed. This ain't Texas, you ain't in texas" First I never heard that I had to conceal my weapon. So in my defense I asked him "isn't a pistol partially concealed by the holster" he started pointing to his duty weapon and said "this aint concealed" Didn't get a chance to ask them what law was I breaking by openly carrying with a valid permit, after my serial numbers came back the original officer handed me my pistol and said GO! So I went! |
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mark edward marchiafava Regular Member
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Best as I can tell, absent any other probable cause, running the serial numbers was an unlawful search and seizure. You may want to consult an attorney on that. Doe your MS permit require your weapon be concealed? If so, that flies in the face of what the AG's office has been spouting about no such thing as unconcealed. Most, not all, "law enforcement" officers have no idea just what the law actually is, discussing it with them on the side of the road is most often a waste of time. |
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JT Regular Member 
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ECALEXANDER wrote: So in my defense I asked him "isn't a pistol partially concealed by the holster" he started pointing to his duty weapon and said "this aint concealed" So one of Moss Point's finest states the obvious in regard to open carry.  It's a shame he doesn't understand the Mississippi constitution. It's hard to know the law when the statutes are so convoluted and contradictory. Best of luck if you decide to pursue the matter further but it would be so much better if police behaved knowledgeably as well as professionally and courteously. Unfortunately, Mark is right that a roadside discussion rarely helps remedy their ignorance. Last edited on Wed Feb 18th, 2009 03:35 am by JT |
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Anubis Regular Member 
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The officer was wrong about Texas, too. He implied open carry was practiced in Texas, which is one of the minority of states prohibiting open carry. |
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JT Regular Member
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Anubis wrote: The officer was wrong about Texas, too. He implied open carry was practiced in Texas, which is one of the minority of states prohibiting open carry. That's true but I wouldn't expect a Mississippi LEO to know Texas law. He showed common sense by recognizing that a holstered firearm in plain view is open carry. MS law as written and interpreted defies common sense though. One simple phrase, "concealed in whole or in part" is at the root of most the ignorance since concealed in part isn't defined. There are other problems with the law but this seems to be the big confusion factor. |
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Anubis Regular Member
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Before a recent improvement to Ohio law, CCers there had to have the pistol in plain sight when in a vehicle. I thought then that a transparent holster made of lexan instead of kydex would be the way to comply. Sounds like that idea might work in Mississippi too.  |
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JT Regular Member
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Anubis wrote: Before a recent improvement to Ohio law, CCers there had to have the pistol in plain sight when in a vehicle. I thought then that a transparent holster made of lexan instead of kydex would be the way to comply. Sounds like that idea might work in Mississippi too. A transparent holster has been mentioned as a possible solution before but really the law needs to be corrected. Is there anyone that actually makes a transparent holster? |
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1911Hammer Regular Member 
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According to the Yazoo County Sherrif, you can carry your weapon any way you want to in your vehicle. It can be concealed in a glove box, laying on the seat, concealed in your jacket, in a holster on your hip in plain view, whatever you want. AND, you do not have to have a concealed weapons permit to do it, either. Only when you exit the vehicle do you have to have a permit to carry it on your person. The Moss Point guys were wrong on several aspects. And, as MS law says a concealed weapon is any weapon that is concealed in whole or in part, any weapon is concealed in part at all times. If it is in your hand, it is partially concealed, if it is in a holster on your hip, it is partially concealed. IF it is laying on your dashboard, it is partially concealed since one side of it can't be seen. I would consult with your local chief law dog and/or the MS attorney general office. MS CODE SEC. 97-37-1. Deadly weapons; carrying while concealed; use or attempt to use; penalties. (1) Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed in whole or in part, any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length, or any shotgun with a barrel of less than eighteen (18) inches in length, machine gun or any fully automatic firearm or deadly weapon, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not it is accompanied by a firearm, or uses or attempts to use against another person any imitation firearm, shall upon conviction be punished as follows: (a) By a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six (6) months, or both, in the discretion of the court, for the first conviction under this section. (b) By a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), and imprisonment in the county jail for not less than thirty (30) days nor more than six (6) months, for the second conviction under this section. (c) By imprisonment in the State Penitentiary for not less than one (1) year nor more than five (5) years, for the third or more convictions under this section. (d) By imprisonment in the State Penitentiary for not less than one (1) year nor more than five (5) years for any person previously convicted of any felony who is convicted under this section. (2) It shall not be a violation of this section for any person over the age of eighteen (18) years to carry a firearm or deadly weapon concealed in whole or in part within the confines of his own home or his place of business, or any real property associated with his home or business or within any motor vehicle. Last edited on Wed Feb 25th, 2009 02:39 pm by 1911Hammer |
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mark edward marchiafava Regular Member
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1911 Hammer, Forget the Attorney General's office, either they are dumb as a stump or think WE are as dumb as stumps. EVERY time I ask them just what right to bear arms is the state constitution referring to, they go silent. When I ask "how do I bear arms as guaranteed in the state constitution without being arrested for CCW," the answer always is "get a permit." Free men need no permit to exercise what's clearly defined as a right. Good luck. |
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Mississippian Regular Member 
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Was stopped on 02/12/2009 by MPPD 139 gave him my DL and Firearms Permit, was asked to step out vehicle, was carrying openly on right hip. Officer was very professional he removed my weapon, pulled the mag, and cleared the round from the chamber while asking me why I carry a gun. Even though I am going to obtain a permit before I OC in MS, I will be OCing in Moss Point, I will show them my permit if asked, but as for why I carry? None of their business, but I will say for self defense. Take my gun? Not happening! I will dis-arm myself if I must and put the weapon in my vehicle then lock vehicle behind me. Yes I know, I will most likely be arrested, but if that's what it takes, so be it. Mark, I know you don't agree regarding the permit for OC, but I want to take this one step at a time. |
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mark edward marchiafava Regular Member
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That approach shouldn't be necessary, especially if "someone" were to organize likeminded persons into financing a fund to provide a truly gun-oriented attorney to deal with this. It really wouldn't take that many persons to fund it, either. Unlike the NRA and it's gilded palace and all the overpaid staff, this venture would actually be on the front lines, truly fighting for 2nd amendment rights. |
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Mississippian Regular Member
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That approach shouldn't be necessary I know, I should've 'counted to ten' before I posted that, but it really ticks me off when people who work for me (or any taxpayer) violates my (or others) rights. |
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mark edward marchiafava Regular Member
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LOL, if that's the case, you need to come walk a few miles with me, both in MS and LA. You'd be one pissed off rednek. |
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1911Hammer Regular Member
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ECALEXANDER wrote:
Since MS has no law saying open carry is illegal, then if your gun "aint concealed", what is the problem? Since, according to MS that concealed in part is concealed, then you were carrying concealed, which you have a permit for. So, you were legal either way. If it is concealed, permit has you covered. If it was not concealed, still covered since MS law does not say OC is illegal. |
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Mississippian Regular Member
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LOL, if that's the case, you need to come walk a few miles with me, both in MS and LA.  I'm sure we'll meet sooner or later, and I may take you up on that. I wanted to make it to Hammond for ya'lls OC meet-up, but of all the darn days of the week to work, I was gone on a load that day  ...Was off the rest of the week. |
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whoflungdo Regular Member
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1911Hammer wrote: ECALEXANDER wrote:Actually, there is no permit required to conceal in whole or in part in any motor vehicle. |
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1911Hammer Regular Member
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whoflungdo wrote: 1911Hammer wrote:ECALEXANDER wrote:Actually, there is no permit required to conceal in whole or in part in any motor vehicle. Very true, but the cop asked him to step out. By normal citizens reasoning, he still would not need a permit, since he was in his car and the cop asked him to step out. But we all know the laws and rules get twisted to accomodate the cops at times. |
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whoflungdo Regular Member
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1911Hammer wrote:
Maybe in some jurisdictions. I'm going through the academy now for a SO in MS. This exact scenario came up in class. The citizen cannot be arrested or charged with carrying a concealed firearm, if the he/she is in their vehicle with a firearm and have been instructed by a LEO to exit the vehicle wheter they have a permit or not. Apparently this has been an issue in the past. They addressed it directly and before the question was asked. I don't know all the details of the OP, but if what is reported here is true, the Moss Point officer didn't know this particular law or didn't care that they were enforcing it improperly. |
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1911Hammer Regular Member
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whoflungdo wrote: the Moss Point officer didn't know this particular law or didn't care that they were enforcing it improperly. This is the problem with a lot of leo's. They don't know the laws so they cant enforce them correctly. And some know the law, but have the sense that they are the law and do as they please. As a side note, since you are going through the academy, I hope you turn out to be a better leo than most of the others I know. |
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Mississippian Regular Member
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ECALEXANDER wrote: Was stopped on **/**/2009 by **** *** gave him my DL and Firearms Permit, was asked to step out vehicle, was carrying openly on right hip. Officer was very professional he removed my weapon, pulled the mag, and cleared the round from the chamber while asking me why I carry a gun. Are you going to seek damages? I would like to ask you a couple questions, but depending on your answers, it may damage your case. And no, I am not going to lecture you, I am just trying to get a handle on "What, When, Where, Why, and How." |
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whoflungdo Regular Member
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1911Hammer wrote: whoflungdo wrote:the Moss Point officer didn't know this particular law or didn't care that they were enforcing it improperly. I disagree with your generalization. While you often only hear about an LEO quoting or enforcing the laws incorrectly, most officers I know, know the statutes and enforce them properly. As fas as the OP, the officer did not ticket nor arrest the OP. Therefore, the laws were not applied improperly. The officers comments were not correct and did not reflect the laws of MS, as far as I can tell from the OP. However, he was within his rights to separate the individual from his weapon, check the weapon's status, and inquire about the weapon. I'm not saying that's what I would have done, nor what other officers might do. But there was nothing wrong with it. Where the officer was wrong was telling the individual that he cannot "openly" carry his weapon in MS and that this isn't Texas. Also, most of the LEO's I know support the RKBA, support Concealed Carry, and oppose registration. Most of them had a MS Firearms Permit before becoming LEO's and grew up around firearms. But then again, those are my points of view as well as most of the people's I associate with. Maybe I'm not branching out far enough with the Anti's in LEO. I know they are there, but I just don't them personally yet. Last edited on Sun Mar 1st, 2009 08:05 pm by whoflungdo |
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Mississippian Regular Member
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he was within his rights to separate the individual from his weapon, check the weapon's status, and inquire about the weapon. Cite your source. |
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whoflungdo Regular Member
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Mississippian wrote: he was within his rights to separate the individual from his weapon, check the weapon's status, and inquire about the weapon. Don't have one for you other than what we are being taught. I'll ask that question today and see what I can get back to you. Separating an individual from his weapon is for officer's safety. I'm checking the source on checking the weapon's status for you. Questions about the weapon do not violate any rights that I know of. I'm sure you could refuse to answer the questions about the weapon. |
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Mississippian Regular Member
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Don't have one for you other than what we are being taught. I'll ask that question today and see what I can get back to you. Ok thanks. See if thay will give you a code or statute or something, it seems a LEO must have reasonable suspicion before they can seize a legally carried weapon, but maybe I'm wrong. BTW, After reading my previous post, it sounded a bit argumentative, I didn't mean to come across that way and I appreciate your posts. |
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whoflungdo Regular Member
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Mississippian wrote:Ok thanks. See if thay will give you a code or statute or something, it seems a LEO must have reasonable suspicion before they can seize a legally carried weapon, but maybe I'm wrong.No worries. I think it best if both LEO and the legally carrying citizen both know the applicable laws. I think most of the LEO's I know would separate the firearm from the person and clear it for officer's safety in most traffic stop situations, depending on how readily accessible the firearm is. The person OCing in public, most likely would just be asked for ID and Permit and if that checked out be sent on their way. I'm not sure what the policies are on the coast, and could vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I know the law is constant, but the law, situations, and policies dictact what an officer can and cannot and will or will not do. As to running the Serial Numbers, I think that would depend on the situation, location, individual, and officer. |
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Mississippian Regular Member
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OC'd at Pizza Hut (Hwy 63 & I10) last night. No cops, no  s, just some good pizza with the wife and boy. |
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Mississippian Regular Member
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Mississippian wrote: OC'd at Pizza Hut (Hwy 63 & I10) last night. No cops, no Guess I should add that I sat with strong side facing out from booth. |
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N5VAG Regular Member
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Ironicly I came across this forum tonight. I am from Biloxi, MS and I had a similar thing happen to me in Ocean Springs, MS (same county as Moss Point). I dont know what the deal is with the cops over there but I got stopped on the Ocean Springs/Biloxi bridge for no tag on my car (i was on my way to get a tag) and when stopped i informed the officer of my Rossi .38 Spc in my center console loaded of course and he gave me the third degree like i was some street thug. I will grant you I am a young man 24 years old but I am not a felon, on drugs or have any reason why I cant legally own or carry a firearm. He informed me that if I did not disclose the fact that I was carrying he could have arrested me for Attempted Murder. Does anyone know the Ms Code on carrying concealed weapons in my vehicle? I am going to file a report on this officer and if need be i will go as high as I can. I may be contacted at n5vag@hotmail.com Thank yall for reading my post and I have his badge # on a ticket for no seat belt (because obviously he had to write me for something) Respectfully, Anthony |
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whoflungdo Regular Member
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N5VAG wrote: Ironicly I came across this forum tonight. I am from Biloxi, MS and I had a similar thing happen to me in Ocean Springs, MS (same county as Moss Point). I dont know what the deal is with the cops over there but I got stopped on the Ocean Springs/Biloxi bridge for no tag on my car (i was on my way to get a tag) and when stopped i informed the officer of my Rossi .38 Spc in my center console loaded of course and he gave me the third degree like i was some street thug. I will grant you I am a young man 24 years old but I am not a felon, on drugs or have any reason why I cant legally own or carry a firearm. He informed me that if I did not disclose the fact that I was carrying he could have arrested me for Attempted Murder. Does anyone know the Ms Code on carrying concealed weapons in my vehicle? I am going to file a report on this officer and if need be i will go as high as I can.There is no MS LAW, Statute, or requirement to notify LEO that you have a weapon in your vehicle. However, it is wise and a smart thing to do. I know of a lot of people inside and outside of LE that "suggest" that is the smart thing to do. However, if the officer told you he could have arrested you for attempted murder for carrying a concealed weapon in your vehicle and not notifying him, he was incorrect. I am assuming by your account that you made no sudden moves to get the weapon or threaten the officer, that you are not a felon, do not have a history of mental problems, and have no Domestic Violence convictions. If those assumptions are correct, the following laws should have applied. I am not a lawyer and this shouldn't be used as legal advice. § 97-37-1. Deadly weapons; carrying while concealed; use or attempt to use; penalties. (1) Except as otherwise provided in Section 45-9-101, any person who carries, concealed in whole or in part, any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, slingshot, pistol, revolver, or any rifle with a barrel of less than sixteen (16) inches in length, or any shotgun with a barrel of less than eighteen (18) inches in length, machine gun or any fully automatic firearm or deadly weapon, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not it is accompanied by a firearm, or uses or attempts to use against another person any imitation firearm, shall upon conviction be punished as follows: (a) By a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six (6) months, or both, in the discretion of the court, for the first conviction under this section. (b) By a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), and imprisonment in the county jail for not less than thirty (30) days nor more than six (6) months, for the second conviction under this section. (c) By confinement in the custody of the Department of Corrections for not less than one (1) year nor more than five (5) years, for the third or subsequent conviction under this section. (d) By confinement in the custody of the Department of Corrections for not less than one (1) year nor more than ten (10) years for any person previously convicted of any felony who is convicted under this section. (2) It shall not be a violation of this section for any person over the age of eighteen (18) years to carry a firearm or deadly weapon concealed in whole or in part within the confines of his own home or his place of business, or any real property associated with his home or business or within any motor vehicle. (3) It shall not be a violation of this section for any person to carry a firearm or deadly weapon concealed in whole or in part if the possessor of the weapon is then engaged in a legitimate weapon-related sports activity or is going to or returning from such activity. For purposes of this subsection, "legitimate weapon-related sports activity" means hunting, fishing, target shooting or any other legal sports activity which normally involves the use of a firearm or other weapon. |
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ECALEXANDER Regular Member
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Mississippian wrote:Are you going to seek damages? I would like to ask you a couple questions, but depending on your answers, it may damage your case. No I am not seeking any damages, it was a non issue to me just wanted to share my experience. The bad part was the officer failed to recognize I was in my vehicle and his opinion on open carry was irrelevant to the situation. But it was Moss Point, and if the officer was any smarter than a rock, well he wouldn’t be working at Moss Point for starters. I have a permit to carry concealed and do so in places that don’t allow firearms, at dinner with my family, in casinos, or formal events and such, other than that I always open carry. But I always carry. My Grandfather spent 52 years with Jackson County Sheriff's Dept. says open carry with or without permit is legal. Sheriff Byrd agrees. My uncle an attorney and buddies with the current District Attorney said must have a Firearms Permit to legally open carry. D.A. Tony Lawrence says he doesn’t think open carry is legal with or without a permit. He cited - (18) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require or allow the registration, documentation or providing of serial numbers with regard to any firearm. Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972. Feel free to contact me. I’m an Electrical Contractor on the coast and live here in Moss Point. Erik Alexander ecalexander.com 228-383-8720 |
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Mississippian Regular Member
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...nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carrying of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972. MS State Constitution Article 3, SECTION 12. I would have to ask Tony just how exactly he is going to charge me with: 1- Open and unconcealed carrying of a handgun when the constitution plainly says it "shall not be called in question"? 2- MS case law has ruled that any handgun in a holster is considered partially concealed so even though it is carried in the open. So, is he saying a handgun in a OWB holster is not considered concealed? This would be good, wouldn't you say so Mark? |
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mark edward marchiafava Regular Member
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Been preachin' that for years.......................good luck on getting an answer. |
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Lets Roll Regular Member
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Have y'all been watching the news in the last few months? Moss Point PD has been the focus of many complaints from allegations of racism to ignoring children locked in cars. I've seen a couple of TV interviews with the Moss Point chief of police and I wasn't very impressed. |
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Bookman Regular Member
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whoflungdo wrote: 1911Hammer wrote: Whoflungdo - Wouldn't it be the textbook definition of entrapment if the citizen were charged after exiting the vehicle at the request of a LEO? |
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whoflungdo Regular Member
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Bookman wrote: whoflungdo wrote:1911Hammer wrote: I don't know if it would be called entrapment, but it definitely would not be a valid arrest or charge. As stated above, we were instructed that we cannot do that and not to do that. |
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